Advice please what would you do

[Debster]

I didn't know where to post this! A fellow cm has got herself into a situation and called me last night in tears. Basically she has had a child full time for over a yr he has hit the terrible twos and has started to become a handful and is not being very nice to the other mindees in her care she had been talking to the parent whom seems to take offence to every comment as in her eyes he can do no wrong(she only sees him at weekends). anyway a incident occured where he was physicaly pinning another child to the floor and causing her to choke he is alot bigger than the child in question. She asked him repeatedly to leave the child alone explaining that it was not kind etc etc her husband was also in the room and told the child to stop in a raised voice. This caused the child to cry. She explained the incident to the parent when they collected the child and explained the her husband as a parent and adult reacted in the heat of the moment and apologised and said it should not have happened well the parent went off on one and called her later and said she was not happy that her child was shouted at and that she is the cm not her husband to which she agreed she said that he is only 2 and she should have removed him from the situation she would have had her hubby not interfered. she asked me for advice about how she should handle it she did not shout at the child her hubby did so as a childminer she did nothing wrong she does not have control over what comes out of her husbands mouth. but the whole situation is awkward. Could the parent make a comlaint to ofsted about her even though it was not the cm that shouted? should my friend call ofsted herself to explain the situation and cover her back or ring her legal helpline. I feel for her she is completly stressed and i thought with all your experiance between you someone may know the best advice to give her.

[Beckieboo]

Sorry didnt want to read and run, but i think the parent is over reacting, her angelic son was CHOKING another child and only stopped when your husband told him in a raised tone. I would put it all in an incident form and informed the parent of the seriousness of CHOKING another child! I think your husband was right trying to get the child to stop doing it again!! Not sure where to go from here, but i am sure someone will be along soon! Sending ure friends big hugs (()) xx

[madasahatter]

I am in agreement with beckieboo. Sometimes adults need to shout or at least raise their voices in order to convey the gravity of a situation. The 2 yr old is still at an age where he won't know (or be able to predict) the consequences of his actions and most adults placed in the same situation would have probably reacted in the same way. That said, I wouldn't have just asked the child to stop I would have been removing him from the situation at the same time as telling him it was wrong.
I don't like shouting, usually my tone of voice works, however I have shouted when the situation has warranted it and as long as it isn't a regular occurance then the child will not suffer any psychological damage (though not sure the same could be said for the parent's constant pampering to hims needs/wants).
Yes the parents could complain to ofsted. If the childminder hasn't already written an incident report then she should do asap. I would be tempted to get the husband to write his version of events too. It is perfectly natural in a home environment for childminder's partners to be present whilst the childminder is in a different room (kitchen/bathroom). Lets face it no one is going to say to their mindees 'you must come into the kitchen because you can't play in the lounge whilst DH is there' and ofsted wouldn't expect you to.

[caz3007]

I would probably have shouted under the circumstances whilst attempting to remove the child who was in the wrong and so would my hubby if he was in the room, its an automatic reaction.

It sound like the parents are making excuses for the child. I would log exactly what happened, and agree with Madasahatter that the hubby should also record his version of events, then its all covered should Ofsted become involved

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would not take any further action with regards to the parent or Ofsted. I am sure that the parent will witness this behaviour when out with friends when they have him.

My only action would be to record it in the incident book and the conversation with the parent should Ofsted wish to see it.

[jumpinjen]

Agree with writing an incident form and getting hubby to do the same, and tackle the parent by:

maybe a letter saying that she understands why there was upset but that the situation is at a level where it needs to be tackled together and that she is not saying that the child is horrible, but that his behaviour is putting other children at risk, put a copy of the behaviour policy in and the incident policy, and ask the parent to come and discuss how you will manage behaviour together.

She shoudl also do an event sample, which is an observation where the CM records every time the child is agressive/hostile/ etc. this could be used to show the parent that it is a real problem as the event will all have a time written by them so she can see the frequency of them.

Explain to her that it is notmal for children to have 'terrible twos' and find some positive suggestions about how to deal with it. I immediatly remove a child if they are doing something like pinning down and choking, not out of the room, but off the victim.... some positive behaviour strategies could be redirecting, praising positive behaviour so the child isn't just told off, but has adults saying "I like how you are sharing with X today" etc.

i really feel that pre-emptive action and being well-prepared is good for the CM's peace of mind and dealing with this situation which isn't going to go away as the child is behaving like this regularly.

Wish her my best! Jenni:)

[Pipsqueak]

I am in agreement that the minder needs to document everything, including the incident(s) and all the times she has talked to the parent as well as the parents response.

Perhaps the parent and minder could try to come up with positive behaviour managment but by the sounds of it, if the parent is unwilling to accept that the childs behaviour is such then the minder is going to have a hard time in parent/partnership.

She needs to review and document what strategies she is using to cope with this childs behaviour.

I think my husband would intervene as well if he witnessed that, probably with a raised voice and I think I would back him all the way.

Can I just ask, and correct me if I have read your post wrong - the mother only sees her child at weekends? so does this mean that the contract is with someone else, does someone else have parental responsibility? what do they say ?

If the minder is NCMA she might want to look at contract point 25.

[Curly Quavers]

my partner would have done the same thing and I would back him up 100%

Sounds to me the parent is trying (whether she means to or not) to take the focus away from her child's behaviour and move it to your friend and her husband.

do an incident report stand your ground don't be to quick to fall at her feet to keep her happy. She has a problem with her child's behaviour that needs addressing or she will loose her child care. Making your friend feel like she can't say anything for fear of the parent complaining is no way to live.

[westbrom44]

I wondered what the parent of the other child thought of her child being choked. This parent would also need to be informed and sign the incident book.

[Debster]

I am in agreement that the minder needs to document everything, including the incident(s) and all the times she has talked to the parent as well as the parents response.

Perhaps the parent and minder could try to come up with positive behaviour managment but by the sounds of it, if the parent is unwilling to accept that the childs behaviour is such then the minder is going to have a hard time in parent/partnership.

She needs to review and document what strategies she is using to cope with this childs behaviour.

I think my husband would intervene as well if he witnessed that, probably with a raised voice and I think I would back him all the way.

Can I just ask, and correct me if I have read your post wrong - the mother only sees her child at weekends? so does this mean that the contract is with someone else, does someone else have parental responsibility? what do they say ?

If the minder is NCMA she might want to look at contract point 25.

No I worded it wrong she works 8.30 -5.30 all week so really only gets to spend her days at the weekend with the child and as a only child she would not witness this behaviour.

[Debster]

I wondered what the parent of the other child thought of her child being choked. This parent would also need to be informed and sign the incident book.

I said the same thing. I am sure it would be a whole different attitude then.

[Pipsqueak]

No I worded it wrong she works 8.30 -5.30 all week so really only gets to spend her days at the weekend with the child and as a only child she would not witness this behaviour.

oh right, thanks for clarifying. I wouldn't bet on that she wouldn't witness this behaviour though.

[caz3007]

I had two boys that were badly behaved and I struggled with them. They had multiple carers, so was difficult. Mum used to say 'oh they dont do that at home', but used to sometimes slip how bad things were and nan used to sometimes pick them up and I told her something, she would say, oh yes they are like that at home.

Bet she knows what his behaviour is like, mind you perhaps he doesnt mingle with other children whilst with his mum, so wouldnt be almost strangling in front of her