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Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 02:32 PM
OMW I have to add a little background to this -

My local council have now decided to make Early Years Foundation Stage Funding (was Nursery Education Grant Funding) available to a select number of Childminders who are prepared to jump through their hoops to get it and who meet certain criteria.

Myself and another member from this forum who is very famous amongst us are putting ourselves forward for this -

We attended a consultation evening at the beginning of October with a view to attending a follow up meeting shortly after and the whole thing being in place by 1st Jan - NOT

Well those of us who attended the last meeting received a letter to invite us to the follow up on 11th Jan where amongst other itemes they wish to discuss they hope to collect information from us to determine operation costs for providing childminding services in order for them to develop a Single Funding Formula for childminders accessing the funding. ( some of the above wording has been taken directly from the letter).

So as I've not been minding very long and have only completed a half years accounts and am in the process of completing the second years accounts ready for 31st Jan (-I know - I know I've left it till the 11th hour) I have no real concrete idea of how much this will be and have decided to ask my experienced friends on here to help - i'm trying to attach the my earliest thoughts on the subject which I hope to leave with the blighters at the end of the night - in the form of a recognisable and informative detailed account of whats involved both in terms of cost and workload for a minder so that they will see for themselves and perhaps offer us a somewhat fair sum. It is difficult for us in across the county to give them the figure we charge per hour as some charge as little as £2.50 and others as much as £6.00ph (for daytime care) and the ones charging £6.00 ph are going to put the spanner in the works for those of us who are charging an average of £3.00-£3.50ph. by rejecting the sum - they said as much at the last meeting.

What I have done is just jot down a load of thoughts on general expenses and work loads and what I would appreciate some of you doing for me is to have a run through it and put what you think your average cost for each is per annum and add anything I haven't included - If you could highlight what you add in italics or a different colour that would be brilliant -

I have done what I think is necessary to attach a document to this but I cannot see anything here to confirm that I have done it - so bear with me for a while if I haven't succeeded. here goes

Chatterbox Childcare
01-01-2010, 02:36 PM
I believe that the government pay a set amount per hour for accredited childminders and this is what you will be.

The costs involved will be what it costs you to run the session. Talk to "you know who" and see what she is doing as I am sure she will have her plan in place already or have written a book on it!

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 02:58 PM
Well thats what I thought Debbie but our Council are fannying about and getting us to do all this unnecessary work for them I was going to show how much it cost per year then divide it down to a per hour figure for them - I also want them to see how much it cost us compared to how much it costs a nursery as they have much more earning power than we have ratio wise.

Chatterbox Childcare
01-01-2010, 03:58 PM
Remember that it only pays for term time too if you are working it out yearly.

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 04:11 PM
oh I did realise that plus I as far as I'm aware its only 38 weeks and not 39 (i.e. 52 weeks - 6weeks summer hols, 2 weeks Easter Hols, 2, weeks Chrismas hols, and 3 weeks half term breaks = 39 weeks) where did they come up with 38 weeks?????? If they are basing it on schools who have inset days then that doesn't work as they are not days off for staff - just kiddies and nurseries & preschools don't generally have them and this funding is only available to nurseries and preschool - their logic defies me - it really does.

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm still not able to attach the doc so I've PM'd d'boss for advice.

Pauline
01-01-2010, 04:44 PM
I've replied :)

if that doesn't work, send it to me and I could put it on the website with a link from this post. :thumbsup: (no size restrictions on the webiste - well, within reason :laughing:)

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 05:38 PM
I've replied :)

if that doesn't work, send it to me and I could put it on the website with a link from this post. :thumbsup: (no size restrictions on the webiste - well, within reason :laughing:)

Wow Pauline does that mean I can add more????:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 06:00 PM
I'm still not able to attach the doc so I've PM'd d'boss for advice.

Pauline
01-01-2010, 06:17 PM
got the document Celeste.

ah I think I have worked out what is wrong. Leave it with me two ticks.

Pauline
01-01-2010, 06:26 PM
There you go Celeste

It was because it was a docx document and the forum wasn't set to accept them. I've now changed the settings :thumbsup:

So you were not doing anything wrong! :clapping:

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks Pauline - what in the name off all that is good is a Docx document??? - Wow have I got the facility to use something fantastic and succeeded in using it without realising it??????

I just clicked on new posts and got all excited when I saw my post there with a little paperclip on it oh the Joy - you have no idea!!!! I'm so so terribly sad I know.

I must hasten to add that it is not my new years resolution to take on some sort of IT training - I want a less stressful year than last year. Each new subject would cause me such stress that would outweigh the elation of the joy of learning something new - anyhow I think I'm better learning these things in very very small chunks - there's no harm in dying wondering about some things now is there???

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 06:52 PM
OK girlies Pauline has uploaded it for me so please could you spare me a little bit of your precious time to point me in the right direction so that I can include realistic figures.

Thanks

Pauline
01-01-2010, 06:55 PM
Thanks Pauline - what in the name off all that is good is a Docx document??? - Wow have I got the facility to use something fantastic and succeeded in using it without realising it??????

it is just the way your version of word is saving it :laughing:

Have you finished now? Shame, that is my entertainment over for the day :laughing::laughing:

Chatterbox Childcare
01-01-2010, 07:02 PM
OK girlies Pauline has uploaded it for me so please could you spare me a little bit of your precious time to point me in the right direction so that I can include realistic figures.

Thanks

Are you sure they want actual figures as that would be impossible.

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Well thats what the letter says - so if I have a rough average and tell them it has not just come from me and the other member from here and plus the minders who use the same Childrens Centre as me all go singing from a similar hymn sheet then they can't argue with it - neither can those silly minders who charge way above average and say they will keep rejecting it until they get what they want they will just dealy the whole blooming thing for the rest of us. I just cant bear people who play silly beggars trying to rip off the system - when they just haven't got a hope. So all I really want is you opinion of you annual average that you spend I'm not after your actual figures for last year or anything like that - they are confidential and personal to you and your business. I also would appreciate if you could tell me if there is anything I left out.

The silly financial people (2 of them) from the council came to the consultation totally unprepared they hadn't even got a single bench mark figure to thow out at us. Then when the silly people who wanted to be paid stupid money had a go at them they were almost apologetic and appeared as though they were actually going to consider giving it to them without question. I know for a fact that the guy is relatively new to the financial side of things - he used to work in the department which organised training - he allocated places on courses - I used to deal with him when I was a training and development officer - I later found out that he moved departments but it was nothing financial - I think he got this new post when the County Council split and merged with the borough councils. The woman he was with was not much better - I got the impression they had only just been in post a few weeks - they had probaly been in training since April or whenever they sorted out the jobs - I bet that is the reason for the delay in the follow up meeting.

Chatterbox Childcare
01-01-2010, 07:32 PM
I will email a couple of accredited childminders in my area and see what they are paid per hour

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Thanks - I get the impression that it tends to be about £3.50-£3.80 ph and that is fine by me - If you ask me the council should just offer the national average figure and offer it then people can take it or leave it - I personally will take it -

I think this is a load of old bull and as I say I haven't done this long enough this time round to have such average figures to hand. Its a real pain in the A** that we have to do it.

Blaze
01-01-2010, 07:59 PM
I'm accreditted - Surrey pays £3.68 as EYE - average normal fees for Surrey are £5 / £6 per hour - so not worth our while - but can be a unique selling point to get a full timer IYSWIM - We get the same as nursaries & pre-schools - so don't understand what all the faff is about your end!

We also get £8.14 AN HOUR IF WE GO ON TRAINING DURING WORKING HOURS (IE WE HAVE TO CLOSE - WHICH IS WHERE THE EXTRA WEEK COMES IN! (OOPS CAPS)!

HTH:)

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 09:39 PM
We also get £8.14 AN HOUR IF WE GO ON TRAINING DURING WORKING HOURS (IE WE HAVE TO CLOSE - WHICH IS WHERE THE EXTRA WEEK COMES IN! (OOPS CAPS)!

Wow we don't get anything we have to do our training in the evenings or at weekends - and pay for any childcare we need for our own children. - £3.68 would be fine around here and in the other members area - but what I suspect is that the council are wishing to cream something off what is available and pay us a bit less.

Its all just a pain in the ass getting us to come up with these figures.

How do parents in your area afford childcare there isn't that much difference in wages between north and south - Have you botherd with it?

After the year I had last year I know a bird in the hand is worth 2 in a bush and would rather take a few pence less per hour and be guaranteed to have a space full than have almost 2 full time empty spaces for up to 9 mths - I've only just managed to full the second space with P/timers with a day to spare just before Christmas - Even after schoolers were very thin on the ground.

Twinkles
01-01-2010, 11:29 PM
As Blaze says the rate is £3.68 for the hours that are used as accredited.

The network advisor has told all the network minders to charge more ( than the usual £5 - £6 ) per hour when the child is not using accredited hours to make up the difference in their wages.

Blaze
01-01-2010, 11:30 PM
We also get £8.14 AN HOUR IF WE GO ON TRAINING DURING WORKING HOURS (IE WE HAVE TO CLOSE - WHICH IS WHERE THE EXTRA WEEK COMES IN! (OOPS CAPS)!

Wow we don't get anything we have to do our training in the evenings or at weekends - and pay for any childcare we need for our own children. - £3.68 would be fine around here and in the other members area - but what I suspect is that the council are wishing to cream something off what is available and pay us a bit less.

Its all just a pain in the ass getting us to come up with these figures.

How do parents in your area afford childcare there isn't that much difference in wages between north and south - Have you botherd with it?

After the year I had last year I know a bird in the hand is worth 2 in a bush and would rather take a few pence less per hour and be guaranteed to have a space full than have almost 2 full time empty spaces for up to 9 mths - I've only just managed to full the second space with P/timers with a day to spare just before Christmas - Even after schoolers were very thin on the ground.

Most parents either get the majority paid by TC or they earn £150,000 + per year so easily afford it - most pay their cleaners £12-£15 per hour (nor do most need childcare as most of the Mum's only have it so they can go to the gym / have their days free etc:rolleyes: But those that have careers as I say tend to be very high earners / or their husbands are - mine is a very affluent area - unfortunately I live in the poor part!

I am only recently accredited so haven't accessed the training funding - nor do I think I will bother as the paperwork looks a faff:rolleyes: ...Will stick to doing my training in the evenings & weekends becasue it'll cost me in lost earnings & paying for childcare for mine & cause disruption to my service - so not worth it!

I agree - sound like they are trying to get away with paying less:angry:

Blaze
01-01-2010, 11:32 PM
As Blaze says the rate is £3.68 for the hours that are used as accredited.

The network advisor has told all the network minders to charge more ( than the usual £5 - £6 ) per hour when the child is not using accredited hours to make up the difference in their wages.

Tut, Tut - that's illegal...however where there is a will - there is a way to make up the loss ...Call me & I'll explain Twinkles:thumbsup: (didn't realise you were accredited too)!:blush:

Twinkles
01-01-2010, 11:34 PM
Tut, Tut - that's illegal...however where there is a will - there is a way to make up the loss ...Call me & I'll explain Twinkles:thumbsup: (didn't realise you were accredited too)!:blush:

No hun , I'm not. I just listens when I shouldn't :D

Heaven Scent
01-01-2010, 11:50 PM
So you a big ear wigger who always has her ariels up. Tut tut. - What are you on tonight.

Twinkles
02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
So you a big ear wigger who always has her ariels up. Tut tut. - What are you on tonight.

I think I'm going stir crazy :laughing: I haven't been out of the house for daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays !!!!
I've barely got out of bed either :panic: ( lazy mare I am )

Heaven Scent
02-01-2010, 01:44 AM
I think I'm going stir crazy :laughing: I haven't been out of the house for daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays !!!!
I've barely got out of bed either :panic: ( lazy mare I am )

Oooohhh how decedent - and Holywood of you!!!

The best I have done on that score was to sleep until 2.15 on boxing day - I was totally shattered.

beccas
02-01-2010, 07:39 PM
we have been told by our council that the goverment pay £3.25 per hour for free hours. why is it different in some areas..

TheBTeam
02-01-2010, 07:49 PM
We were told at our forum meeting that our area paid £5.70 per hour, no idea if this is true, but we were all impressed!

Heaven Scent
02-01-2010, 08:14 PM
According to nursery world as I suspected the various councils are creaming some off before they pay it out - They are calling it administration charges (?) - our council are probably using it for something useful like new signs to advertise themselves in the various towns that they now RULE OVER :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

teacake2
03-01-2010, 03:12 PM
We get £3.40 per hour for accredited hours, so it is a bit more per hour for me but I haven't got any 3/4 year olds at the moment, and we have not been offered the chance of offering funding for 2 year olds which is a shame as I have one whose parents would qualify for it.
Teacake2

manjay
03-01-2010, 03:35 PM
HS - I think you have missed your true vocation in life. I think you should be writing sitcoms;) :laughing:

The Juggler
03-01-2010, 03:43 PM
Tut, Tut - that's illegal...however where there is a will - there is a way to make up the loss ...Call me & I'll explain Twinkles:thumbsup: (didn't realise you were accredited too)!:blush:

I thought that too - you're not allowed to increase fees for wraparound to make up losses. Blaze I would also be interested in how to do this although having said that no progress has been made on our network since June meeting! The schedule now says asssessing feasibility in Jan 2010:eek:

so, some way off before I can even considering offering it