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little chickee
22-12-2009, 02:22 PM
I need some quick advice - i have booked my holidays starting from friday - i usually have a mindee mon wed and fri.

a couple of weeks ago her mum said i would not have her this week as her dad will be off work and he would look after her but she understands that she wolud still pay me. that was fine.

She asked me on friday last week if i could have her on mon after all as dad was going into work and i said yes no problem and i had her on mon.

today at 12pm ish she phoned and said could i have her tomorrow as dad is unwell with v & d - now i have planned a whole day with my boys tomorrow - cinema, lunch out etc as i thought i would be finished so i said no.

she said she realised that i might have plans but thought she would ask.
This parent is quite new with me and its the first time we have had such an issue. She is absolutly lovely and the perfect parent and i feel i have let her down.

Also i am actually being paid for tomorrow - do i let my kids down and have her or stand firm and say no? i was thinking of sticking with no but offering her the days fee back.

Please help i've to make a quick descision.

sarah707
22-12-2009, 02:40 PM
The law says that if you are being paid for the day then you must either work or refund the money.

You cannot ask for / take money and then say no to the work.

Would you be able to take the child with you on your day out?

Hth :D

mama2three
22-12-2009, 02:42 PM
its difficult isnt it? if shes paying then really the place should be available. But sounds like shes very understanding about you having made other plans. if you can afford to id credit her one day , jst as a gesture of 'seasonal goodwill'.

LittleMissSparkles
22-12-2009, 03:22 PM
The law says that if you are being paid for the day then you must either work or refund the money.

You cannot ask for / take money and then say no to the work.

Would you be able to take the child with you on your day out?

Hth :D


is this even though the parent has booked the time off and changes there mind Sarah ? x

Tatjana
22-12-2009, 04:09 PM
The law says that if you are being paid for the day then you must either work or refund the money.

You cannot ask for / take money and then say no to the work.

Would you be able to take the child with you on your day out?

Hth :D

I must say I find this confusing...so what happens to cm's that charge for their holidays?

xx

sarah707
22-12-2009, 04:15 PM
I must say I find this confusing...so what happens to cm's that charge for their holidays?

xx

It was something the Ncma said about Bank Holidays recently... someone else quoted it on here.

I can't find the thread, I was hunting for it earlier...

Days that are ad hoc (paid for but not always used) such as Bank Hols or if the parents pay, in this example, for 3 days a week and then don't always use them..

These days are being kept open by the parents for their use if they want them, so they should be refunded if the childminder cannot fulfil their obligation.

Holidays are a totally different thing, they are an agreement between parents and the childminder that the childminder takes xx paid holidays a year.

:D

Tatjana
22-12-2009, 04:41 PM
I can't agree with this as surely the NCMA gives us guidelines and doesn't set laws.

It's hypocritical of them to recommend we negotiate paid holidays, when parents may have to pay again for alternative childcare. Then say we should be available to work public holidays or offer refunds, it's wrong and don't understand how they cannot see this.

If we run our own businesses surely we are able to set our own requirements, we are not franchises of the NCMA. ;)

xx

ajs
22-12-2009, 04:46 PM
regardless of legalaties i think i would either offer to have the child or have her an extra day later on in the year ( or next year in this case ) and not charge for it.

sarah707
22-12-2009, 07:48 PM
I can't agree with this as surely the NCMA gives us guidelines and doesn't set laws.

It's hypocritical of them to recommend we negotiate paid holidays, when parents may have to pay again for alternative childcare. Then say we should be available to work public holidays or offer refunds, it's wrong and don't understand how they cannot see this.

If we run our own businesses surely we are able to set our own requirements, we are not franchises of the NCMA. ;)

xx

The Ncma is the organisation which would support most of our members if they have legal issues with parents.

As such it is surely best that Ncma members follow their 'advice' or risk not getting support when they need it.

If an Ncma lawyer is needed to fight a case in court and the member has clearly gone against Ncma advice, the member will not have legal representation.

That is why the Ncma produces such a comprehensive handbook and updates members regularly on legal and other matters.

If you are being paid for a day's work then you should make yourself available to work that day - surely if you don't it's you as the childminder who is the hypocrite?

As for negotiating paid holidays as I said earlier that's between you and the parents. Nothing to do with this issue.

I am only saying what the current guidance is as I understand it. I am neither a lawyer nor a member of the Ncma.

I would always advise forum members to check with their legal body before making sweeping statements about accepting money or paying money back or giving parents notice or any other important financial matters.

I hope this clarifies my position as only ever answering posts on this forum in the best interests of the forum member :D

little chickee
22-12-2009, 08:53 PM
Thanks everyone - hope i've not caused you any bother Sarah.

I have decided to have the child tomorrow as it has bothered me all afternoon - i really felt bad that i was letting a very nice parent down and it would have bothered me all day tomorrow too.

My boys have been very understanding and we have changed our plans to suit - the mindee is only 10 months so we are now skipping the cinema and going to see some xmas displays instead.

Brownie points for me too as the mum was really stuck!

Tatjana
22-12-2009, 10:20 PM
The Ncma is the organisation which would support most of our members if they have legal issues with parents.

As such it is surely best that Ncma members follow their 'advice' or risk not getting support when they need it.

If an Ncma lawyer is needed to fight a case in court and the member has clearly gone against Ncma advice, the member will not have legal representation.

I didn't realise this and will probably reconsider my membership on this alone when it comes to renew it. I thought guidelines were just that and not 'do as we say or your membership is bascially worthless' Thanks for letting me know
That is why the Ncma produces such a comprehensive handbook and updates members regularly on legal and other matters.

If you are being paid for a day's work then you should make yourself available to work that day - surely if you don't it's you as the childminder who is the hypocrite?


No i'm not a hypocrite. There is no difference in taking payment for a public holiday to taking payment for a personal holiday and not being available to work either, but the ncma recommends the latter!?
As for negotiating paid holidays as I said earlier that's between you and the parents. Nothing to do with this issue.

I believe it is, it's taking money for not doing any work or being available to work.
I am only saying what the current guidance is as I understand it. I am neither a lawyer nor a member of the Ncma.

I would always advise forum members to check with their legal body before making sweeping statements about accepting money or paying money back or giving parents notice or any other important financial matters.

I hope this clarifies my position as only ever answering posts on this forum in the best interests of the forum member :D

You seem to have taken offence at my post, which is not what it was about and never my intention...I know how much effort you put in to help everyone out, including myself. :(

Mollymop
23-12-2009, 07:11 PM
hummm, I haven't been registered for as long as some of ya, but I don't think that is an issue when it comes to knowing laws, etc, ..

If you are contracted (both parties have signed the contract) to paid holidays and have given the required notice period for the said holidays then you should be within your rights to turn her (parent) down.

I didn't think there was a LAW or Legal right about this, after all we are self employed,,,the law is within what is written in the contract...therefore in my mind you are entitled to say "no" You don't have to be available!

sarah707
23-12-2009, 08:33 PM
You seem to have taken offence at my post, which is not what it was about and never my intention...I know how much effort you put in to help everyone out, including myself. :(

Tatjana, I've not taken offence in the slightest! I am truly sorry you thought that!

I thought we were having a good discussion :D

At the end of the day it's not always about what we are doing right now and whether it's a problem is it?

It's looking to the future and thinking what if...

What if the parents don't pay... will we get the support we need if the paperwork isn't right?

What if the parents decide to sue us... are we fully covered? Are our risk assessments in place?

What if Ofsted picks us up on this, that or the other... do we have enough knowledge to fight our corner? Can we rely on our insurance company to support us?

We all hear horror stories about childminders who can't work any more / didn't get paid / weren't supported when they needed it because of daft slip ups or not reading small print...

So yes, of course, we are self employed.

But we are also covered by an insurance company who will look at the fine print and decide whether to support us or not.

At the end of the day it's a balancing act isn't it? :D

Tatjana
26-12-2009, 11:21 AM
It just seems to be that the advantage appears to be with the parents all the time, if they don't pay we are expected to continue with childcare or they have right to sue us for breech of contract for loss of earnings they may incur etc. Although they have been in breech first!

We pay insurance and membership fees but may not get the support we need if and when we need it.

I thought Ofsted had nothing to do with what we charge etc?!

It's like our contracts are pointless whatever we try to put in them to safeguard oursleves.

I honestly had no idea about all the ins and outs of payment, contracts etc would be such a minefield when I went into childminding....so much stress and hassle for getting paid peanuts:( :rolleyes:

xx

nokidshere
27-12-2009, 08:29 PM
My parents pay for ad hoc days and bank holidays but once they have told me that they don't need me then thats it as far as I am concerned. I would only accommodate changes if I haven't made other plans.

As for them paying to have the day - they are not. They are paying because they originally booked my services for that day and then decided not to use it.

Its only the same as booking a hotel room and then cancelling the night before - you would have to pay!

And there are no laws governing what we can and can't do when it comes to charges. As long as you make it clear at the beginning of the contract and the parent then signs it, it shouldn't ever be a problem.