Routine issues

[igglepiggle]

Hi, I wondered if anyone could help me or if anyone's ever experienced anything like this before? My little boy is 10 months old and I also look after a 23 month old and an 8 1/2 month old (I have a variation for this). My routine is pretty basic -
08:00 Arrivals and Settling in, Free Play
8.15 School Run (when required)/Free Play
8:30/9.00 Structured Activity/Sensory Activity
9:30 Nap for Younger Babies
10.00 Snack, Milk, Outing
11.30 Free Play
12.00 Lunch
12:30/1.00 Afternoon Nap, Quiet Time
2.30 Structured Activity
2.45 School Run (when required)/Free Play
3.30 Snack, Milk
3.45 Afternoon Activity/Homework
5.00 Collection, Free Play

My little boy has a lie down nap 9:30 - 9:50 ish in his cot and the 23 month old and I do an activity together. They both still have 2 hours ish over lunch - 12:30 - 2:30 and both need this. This length nap has also been requested by the 23 month old's parents. However....and it's a biggie...the 8 month old doesn't really sleep int he day which, in princilple, would be fine. I would normally provide some books, cushions, etc and allow her to have a rest downstairs whilst I have my lunch and try to regain a bit of sanity. I would then provide an activity for her whilst the others sleep. BUT...her parents have said that the only way she sleeps in the morning is if they go out for a walk or drive between 9:30 and 10 am which is, for me, very inpractical and unfair on the other children. She will not sleep in her cot at home, or here, at that time and screams the house down - and I mean screams. Then she is really tired by lunch time as she doesn't have a nap in teh car on the way to children's centre or wherever it is we are going so screams over lunch. Today her screaming was so severe that my, normally placid and easy going, little boy was shaking like a leaf and had to be put to bed early to give him some time out. The 23 month old started crying also. When I called the 8 month old's dad, he explained that this is 'normal'behaviour. As a result of not sleeping and the upset over lunch, she continued to scream and scream. Once she calmed down, she was exhausted, so I tried to put her down for a sleep and the screaming continued. I brought her back downstairs and basically cuddled her for an hour. When my little boy and the toddler woke up, I brought them downstairs for an afternoon activity and the screaming began again, every time I touched one of the other children or turned my back on her. I wasn't even able to go to the loo and have ahd a kiwi for my lunch.:( I'm pretty exhautsed tonight and just want some ideas, tips, anything really! What could I do with her whislt the others sleep to allow her to have a nap? How can I safely and appropriately go to the loo/eat my lunch/ keep the house tidy?
I spoke to 'dad' tonight who again reinforced the fact that they take her out for walks. Ofsted'd have a fit. Oh - and he also said that they only thing she'll eat is breadsticks, melba toast and rice cakes. I called ofsted to see where I stand on the food front and they told me that I am bound, by law, to offer a healthy, balanced diet and breadsticks, melba toast etc is not that. I wondered if they fancied enduring the screams?!
Anyway, so sorry for the long winded first post but I would really appreciate some ideas.
Thank you :)

[jaja]

I llok after a little one who also screams and screams and screams and screams some more, she doesnt like it if i turn my back on her or put her in the cot while i go for a pee (this is a must 8 hours without the loo is not good) she screams if i turn my attention to anything else, other children or even to make a drink.... So i know what you mean....She didnt start this until i had been looking after her for 7 weeks and has now started to do it everytime... I think its the disruption from there routine the only thing i can surggest is to continue with your normal routine and hope it improves, if it does then speak to the parents, sometimes they dont know what they are doing and by surggesting or saying "this worked for me with my kids" sometimes makes them think... worth a shot... otherwise ear plugs for you and the others:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Sending bug hugs xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Helen79]

sorry you've had a rough day.
Would she fall asleep if you rocked her in the pushchair? I have an 8month old who sometimes falls asleep in the cot but most of the time I bring the puchshair into the lounge & rock her to sleep in that. If she's used to falling asleep when they're out for walks it may help.
Does she not eat any purees or spoonfed food? I would suggest to the parents that she's really interested in what the others are eating & would they mind her trying new foods

My 8month old has screamed for 3 weeks so I know how hard it is when you don't get a break from it. It's a common age for separation anxiety, when I need to get my lunch/loo etc I have to leave her to cry which isn't nice but when they cry for 6 hours a day it's unavoidable.

[nannymcflea]

You are going to have to firm but understanding towards the parents. They need to realise that by them only letting their child sleep whilst walking is not practical for anyone with more than one child.

Perhaps suggest they have a nanny that can work FOR them and not WITH them!

It is very unreasonable of them to expect you to do this and is also physically and practically impossible. You also have the needs of the other children to think of and the parents need to be reminded of your duty of care to ALL your children.

I'd also be aware that if this is their first child they are probably they are going to be "my child comes first I cannot consider anything else" mentality...this is quite normal!(for some)

So you need to call parents in and have a review, let them know what your job entails and the care you provide and that you need to work together to ensure the best for ALL children in your setting.

You will need to include the food issue in this too, quoting what OFSTED have said and also look up on the net different types of food that lo should be eating/trying.

Good luck.

[igglepiggle]

Thanks everyone! I feel a bit better hearing everything you've all said and that I'm not being unreasonable.
Finger's crossed it improves and thanks alot xxxx

[sarah707]

The parents are asking you to do something you cannot possibly do.

You have to meet the needs of all the children, not just one... as Nanny says, they need a nanny or they need to work with you!

I have had a screamer, I was a few days from giving notice when he suddenly stopped and turned into a joyful child!

Good luck xx

[madredann]

In my experience - Whilst it is important to know what children do at home they sometimes have to be settled into a better routine when they are with you- you couldn't drive every time could you? Think about how you could do it at the time you think she needs a sleep maybe push in the house in a pushchair, how long have you been caring for her, sometimes it takes a little while for the child to feel secure enough to sleep but to sum up start as you mean to go on it is very difficult when you have a few under 2 as they all have needs at the same time. Bless you, all the children have to get used to one another. You have to think of them too. By the way you might want to discuss the ways in which you are trying to settle her with her parents as it probably wouldn't work if they are still driving the child around to get her to sleep if that makes sense, consistancy is important.
On the food front children need to have a mixed diet, these foods sound like finger foods that a child might eat on there own, the child is 8 months you said, I have a 1 year old and at 8 months i was feeding him mushed up veggies and meat that his mummy made him. I hate to say it but the parents sound a little lazy and you have your work cut out. Do they send her food with her or do you provide it?
I know I am waffling but I had a little girl who sounded a little similar in respects to the fact that you couldn't leave her, it took awhile to settle her couldnt put her down and hated it when anybody went near her-i think they have to transfer their trust to you, know that you are there and not going to leave them(there is a special word for it cant remember it)once she feels safe with you she will begin to accept others and relax. The little girl is still with me and we adore each other, on the up side I think sometimes the more difficult it is to settle a child the stronger the bond becomes. Try the pushchair in the house it might work. Let me know how you get on and good luck. x

[igglepiggle]

Thank you thank you!
I provide food for her. Her parents have said (and I quote from her learning journal all about me page) LO likes to eat yeo valley yoghurts but doesn't like fromage frais. She likes bread/toast, crispbreads, melba toasts. She likes corguette puree but only when mixed dwith yoghurt. She's not keen on other purees at the moment. she likes finger foods......She likes eating baby crisps as snacks in the afternoon, like organix carrot sticks, tomato rings, breadsticks etc. We would like her to have a more balanced diet.......She will sleep if in the car or the pram but probably not otherwise.'
Does anyone know where Ofsted stand on the whole sleeping in the pushchair thing? They do know that my spare room is set up as a sleep room with travel cots. The children have their own bedding, sleeping bags, etc so I worry that I would get peenalised for letting her sleep in the pushchair after pushing her round the house, especially if safeguarding's a big issue at the moment. That said, I really do feel like she needs a good afternoon sleep. I honestly don't feel like I can have another day like today and had a little cry when I put my little boy to sleep tonight as I felt like I'd really rejected him today - i'm sure he didn't notice though-ha!! I'm going to go and have a hot bath and an early night. My husband's away with work so I'm really looking forward to a snore free night! WIll let you all know how I get on tomorrow x
I really appreciate all the advice and ideas! x

[Tired]

could you get her to sleep by rocking her in the chair, then move her to the cot when she is settled?

I have done this with babies and toddlers, and most will sleep through being moved.

If not, then as long as you can justify to ofsted that you are doing it for the sake of the baby, to meet her individual needs, surely that will be ok with them?

[madredann]

Oh bless, sometimes it is very hard dont know about pushchair, what is the difference if child falls asleep whilst out walking which sometimes happens it could be an inbetween solution so child gets some sleep which will benefit eveyone. I have done it before and actually the little girl I spoke about before started sleepng in buggy and now sleeps in cot. With food it is important to know what child is UNABLE to eat e.g allergic to. Anything else goes and eating with the other children or you will set a very good example. I have 2 young ones of my own 2 and 4 and sometimes feel the same about attention, on the other hand the alternative is me going out to work and spending very little time with them so dont be hard on yourself you are being a wonderful parent and working very hard. My kids wake up on Sturdays asking "Who is coming today?" and are disappointed when I say it is just us, so they don't mind too much. Have a good rest and start again tomorrow. Remember you are not alone alot of child minders experience similar problems x

[PixiePetal]

I have children who sleep in my buggy. I have permission from parents and it is a large well laid back/almost flat buggy, children sleep well in it. I do have a travel cot if needed but most fall asleep when we are out and stay there for the rest of their sleep.

[Helen79]

I let babies sleep in pushchairs, I have parents written permission.
I would ask parent's to bring homemade purees or jars for her. I provide all food once babies are weaned onto normal food like sandwiches etc but parents provide all baby food until then.
Could you find some information on when she should be eating at this age to give to parents to help them with ideas on what to feed her.

[singlewiththree]

I'm having similar problems. I have a 8mth old who has been with me a week and I can't leave her side, even just turn my back on her, similar issues with food she is refusing puree at the moment but is also teething! She has taken to falling asleep in the buggy and I currently have a 8mth old asleep in the back of the Jane Powertwin and the 20mth old asleep in the front. My own 3 year old is watching TV for me for a break as the 8mth old is so clingly I'm drained by the end of the day, its not a scream with us its a grating whinge :( I'm going to try a new routine starting tomorrow where she has her morning milk and goes in the pushchair if we are out and cot in the house, then about 2pm after her milk she goes for a nap again, hope both our 8mth old improve

[little chickee]

I agree that at 8 months a baby should be sleeping for 12 hours during the night and having 2-3 hours sleep during the day. her behaviour when she doesnt have a sleep proves this.

i also think that it is fine to stick to a childs normal routine as far as possible but if this is not practical for you ( which in this case its not ) the child will learn to adapt to a different routine at your house.

I would try the buggy in the house and then gradually try a move to the cot. You could maybe try letting her go to sleep in the buggy and then move her to the cot so that she is waking up in the cot and she might then learn to go to sleep in the cot if this is what you would like her to do.

[igglepiggle]

Paula - I feel your pain! I really hope you've had a better day today. Helen - I have the Gina Ford, Annabel Karmel and our local council weaning guides which I have looked at with the paretns although they just say she won't eat anything from it.... :( Will ask them to provide some 'emergency food'I think. I should say that she started weaning at 17 weeks so this has been going on a loooooong time! Thanks everyone - today's been a bit better so far. We've still had the sreaming but it's been less (I think) and if it's started to affect my LO and upset him I've moved his to a different room with a few of his own toys as he is quite happy to have a short play on his own. Little lady is asleep now IN THE BUGGY upstairs. I got written permission from dad this morning. I left her down here with Balamory on whilst I put the other 2 to bed and gave my LO a little cuddle. I then came back down to get her, gave her a cuddle and popped her in the pushchair, lying flat, with her cot book adn ran her backwards and forwards over the bedroom door floor wotzit! She was out in 5 mins so I hope she lasts.
In terms of lunch, dad said she likes fish so I took a couple of cubes of fish pie puree out of the freezer and she did have a couple of mouthfuls of yoghurt. She also had some finger foods on her tray. She did have a short screaming session which upset my LO and I had to take him out to calm him down before trying his lunch again but hopefully it'll improve with time. I feel I need to say my LO is normally the most laid back baby your could come acroos so it takes alot to scare him - ha!
Anyhow, so far, so good(ish). Gotta look at today as a MAJOR improvement on yesterday and next week will be even better... Here's hoping.
Thanks again xx

[Louise_Oaktree]

Both mine sleep in buggies and ofsted were fine about this. I provide individual blankets and buggy liners.

Both of these children DO NOT sleep at home during the day :laughing:

BOTH of these sleep for at least 1 hr am and 1 hr pm at my house :D

One doesn't eat anything other than fish fingers, so I provide fish fingers and other things for him to try which is working, he now likes some other foods too and some days I don't have to do the fish fingers :D

[igglepiggle]

Thanks Louise, You've reassured me.
This afternoon went downhill very fast and the screaming started again. She was in a state when mum picked her up. If I put my professional hat on, I know it's just separation anxiety but from a personal point of view I'm on the verge of tears. She screams everytime I put her down. She will seriously not eat anything so I think alot of this is the inability to cope with the hunger. I spoke to mum again tonight who said that she doesn't eat well for them so what hope do I have? I'm seriousily considering seeing if my husband can work form home on Wed and Thurs next week to step in with my LO when things get too much. Any ideas on the clinginess anyone? She really didn;t like me giving attention to the others today and screamed everytime one of them came back into the room. I really am exhausted. :(

[upadaisy]

hi there, i had a child just like that, it was my mum came up one day and took over...... she wrapped a warm blanket around the baby warmed the pillow and put her in the pram on her side ... put a small blanket at her side and rocked.... 5 mins later baby was out for the count..... slept 2 hours and has done so since .... i can even lift her out of pram and put her in cot....

[donnawalsh123]

i have 1 who was similiar to this when he 1st started coming to me. only content when having a hug

now on the days where hes here all day 8.30 - 5.30 theres not a problem, will explore and play with whatever is out for him, loves trying to play with the older ones, sleeps 1hr in morning 1 1/2 hr afternoon. eats practically anything thats offered now.

although the 2 days hes here from 3 - 5.30 its still cry and playup everytime i give attention to other mindees or am not looking/playing with him. but hes slowly coming round on these days to now.

persevere and get a routine that suits you. i dont see a problem with sleeping in pram/car seat at all if it lets the little one sleep and dosent interfer with other mindees theres no differnce than them sleeping whilst out in the pram/car.

my problem is 1 who cant sleep when its not noisy :D. when alls peacefull no chance of him dropping off. if theres a tantrum or lots of noise when other mindees here hes out like a light. brilliant excuse to vacum up when hes on his own when hes tired :D