Hanukkah

[andreaschildcare]

Hiya

Is anyone celebrating or has anyone done any planning or have any ideas for Hanukkah please?

[Lady Haha]

We did this last year! It was great! We made paper stars of David decorated with glitter etc and Menorahs out of playdoh!

I also found this really lovely song about the eight days of light....it really is lovely!!!

http://www.nancymusic.com/EightDaysplay.htm

The kids learnt alot from it as well as me!!!!

[moogster1a]

I've not got any Jewish mindees so no, we're not doing anything.

[Lady Haha]

I've not got any Jewish mindees so no, we're not doing anything.

I didn't have any Jewish mindees last year when we did this either, but the mindees I did have learnt a great deal about another religion/culture in taking part.

[andreaschildcare]

Thanks Blackandsparkly thats absolutely fab! :)

[Pauline]

I didn't have any Jewish mindees last year when we did this either, but the mindees I did have learnt a great deal about another religion/culture in taking part.

Totally agree Blackandsparkly, it is not about whether you have children who are Jewish or not, it is about helping all children learn about the world around them.

thanks for the link :thumbsup:

[moogster1a]

Do you teach them about druidism, scientology, latter day saints? I think it's best to stick to the traditions that the mindees families practise otherwise it confuses small children being taught to celebrate say monoatheism one week and polyatheism the next. teaching about different cultlures is one thing, religion another. ( personally I make a point of getting the children to question the existence of God at all. Might as well be realistic from the start!. as soon as I hear doubts about the tooth fairy etc. I might have discussions on why some people believe in God on the basis of the same physical evidence.)

[katickles]

we are going to make star of david's using lolly pop sticks & gold glitter :D

[Pipsqueak]

Another Site

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/chanukah/default_cdo/jewish/hanukkah.htm

[Pipsqueak]

I've not got any Jewish mindees so no, we're not doing anything.

Hun, although when we explore other faiths, cultures, beliefs etc, it shouldn't just be tokenistic, we do need to ensure that we are being diverse, multi-cultural etc and exploring whether we have children of a particular faith, race etc.

[Pauline]

Do you teach them about druidism, scientology, latter day saints? I think it's best to stick to the traditions that the mindees families practise otherwise it confuses small children being taught to celebrate say monoatheism one week and polyatheism the next. teaching about different cultlures is one thing, religion another. ( personally I make a point of getting the children to question the existence of God at all. Might as well be realistic from the start!. as soon as I hear doubts about the tooth fairy etc. I might have discussions on why some people believe in God on the basis of the same physical evidence.)

Yes if we can find the resources.

and you misunderstand - they are not being 'taught to celebrate' anything. They are given activities which introduce a few new words. These activities could be simply colouring an Hanukkah symbol with a few words, "this is very special to some people". Depending on their age, children don't need a lot more than that but it sows the seeds of understanding and hopefully one day those seeds will grow into a child who has choice and empathy in their life.

Different cultures and different religions go hand in hand, it is rare to have one without the other.

If more people understood the differences between people in the world there would be less wars and less conflict in my opinion, and you cannot start too early.

[moogster1a]

Mormon's, satanists? where do you stop? let the little ones use their own imaginations instead of learning this rubbish. And personally, I think the fact that religion and culture appear to be becoming interwoven, is where a lot of problems are stemming from.
Without religion, there would be far fewer wars, just ask the 25% of the young muslim community of England who supported the 9/ 11 attacks and 7/7 attacks.

[Pipsqueak]

Do you teach them about druidism, scientology, latter day saints? I think it's best to stick to the traditions that the mindees families practise otherwise it confuses small children being taught to celebrate say monoatheism one week and polyatheism the next. teaching about different cultlures is one thing, religion another. ( personally I make a point of getting the children to question the existence of God at all. Might as well be realistic from the start!. as soon as I hear doubts about the tooth fairy etc. I might have discussions on why some people believe in God on the basis of the same physical evidence.)

Can I just ask, are the parents agreeable to you getting them to question the existence of God? Whilst I am of no particular faith (having being bought up in a Catholic household and school), I do not reject the idea totally about God or who ever someone choses to believe in and I encourage my own children to question things but I don't know if I would encourage someone elses child iyswim.

As to the tooth fairy and stuff I will be honest with a child to a degree but I think its up to their own parents to disallusion them if they feel the need to tbh but why take away a childhood fantasy too soon.

As Pauline says - its not about 'celebrating' other faiths/religions etc its about exploring and giving children the tools to have a greater understanding and knowledge in the wider context.
I actually find it very exciting discovering things with the children

[PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER]

( personally I make a point of getting the children to question the existence of God at all.
I was brought up catholic and so is my son (my dh does not believe in god) although we are very relaxed not god fearing bible worshippers I would personally be livid if my child came home from the childminders or any other setting and and someone had done this. This would be my job as their parent and no one elses. I feel some lines (religion being one of them) shouldnt be crossed

[moogster1a]

I'm not encouraging them not to believe in God ( though I wish I could ) . I will ask something like do you believe in God? If so, why when you can't see, hear him etc. Children will often say I know he's there because I know he loves me and that's fair enough; I say, that's nice, we all like to be loved. The more questioning children however might then think a little deeper about why they think God exists. they might deciode because they can feel him ( all very nice again ) or they might decide, actually, does he exist at all? I'm merely getting them to use their imaginations more and not follow blind doctrine.
The parents all know I'd rather follow saddam hussein the Messiah, than believe in or endorse a religion and they're all fine with it.
One mum is sick of her 6 year old being brainwashed by an aunt over how God is looking over her all the time and welcomes me giving her an alternative view that it's basically your conscience watching over you which should make you behave all the time

[Pauline]

Mormon's, satanists? where do you stop? let the little ones use their own imaginations instead of learning this rubbish. And personally, I think the fact that religion and culture appear to be becoming interwoven, is where a lot of problems are stemming from.
Without religion, there would be far fewer wars, just ask the 25% of the young muslim community of England who supported the 9/ 11 attacks and 7/7 attacks.

We discuss things on this Forum with respect for all, please don't resort to calling something 'rubbish' just because you don't agree.

[Pipsqueak]

I'm not encouraging them not to believe in God ( though I wish I could ) . I will ask something like do you believe in God? If so, why when you can't see, hear him etc. Children will often say I know he's there because I know he loves me and that's fair enough; I say, that's nice, we all like to be loved. The more questioning children however might then think a little deeper about why they think God exists. they might deciode because they can feel him ( all very nice again ) or they might decide, actually, does he exist at all? I'm merely getting them to use their imaginations more and not follow blind doctrine.
The parents all know I'd rather follow saddam hussein the Messiah, than believe in or endorse a religion and they're all fine with it.
One mum is sick of her 6 year old being brainwashed by an aunt over how God is looking over her all the time and welcomes me giving her an alternative view that it's basically your conscience watching over you which should make you behave all the time

Things you can't see/hear - air/oxygen but we still 'believe' in that, time is another one. So just because you choose not to believe you feel its your right to help children question it? Is that not as bad as blindly following something? I know as adults we do (knowingly or not) impose our views on others - especially children but I do think that a professionals we have to be careful. As professionals we also have a duty to respectfully explore all other faiths/beliefs etc.

As I say, I am not a believer in any particular faith but just by believing in something doesn't mean that its following 'blind doctorine'
Ok, this is only your opinion but I would be really cross if any carer of my childs started getting them to question in this manner - that is my place. In that situation, I would mention to mindees' parent that they had been talking about this.

[Pipsqueak]

Mormon's, satanists? where do you stop? let the little ones use their own imaginations instead of learning this rubbish. And personally, I think the fact that religion and culture appear to be becoming interwoven, is where a lot of problems are stemming from.
Without religion, there would be far fewer wars, just ask the 25% of the young muslim community of England who supported the 9/ 11 attacks and 7/7 attacks.

I know Pauline has already commented but I find your manner/comments disrespectful to Pauline (as the owner), the forum and to those who's faith is very relevant and important to them.

I repeat, its our duty as professional childcarers to ensure that we are introducing the children to the 'wider context' and that perhaps may include something that we personally disagree with or do not believe in or understand.

I do not mind discussion but I do not and will not tolerate the trashing of faith and religion

[moogster1a]

I believe in oxygen because I've seen its molecular structure under a scanning electron microscope!!

[Pipsqueak]

I believe in oxygen because I've seen its molecular structure under a scanning electron microscope!!

right so thats ok then - you have your proof but

I repeat, its our duty as professional childcarers to ensure that we are introducing the children to the 'wider context' and that perhaps may include something that we personally disagree with or do not believe in or understand.

[ORKSIE]

I know Pauline has already commented but I find your manner/comments disrespectful to Pauline (as the owner), the forum and to those who's faith is very relevant and important to them.

I repeat, its our duty as professional childcarers to ensure that we are introducing the children to the 'wider context' and that perhaps may include something that we personally disagree with or do not believe in or understand.

I do not mind discussion but I do not and will not tolerate the trashing of faith and religion

Well said Pip.
I totally agree.

Personally, I find other Faiths, Cultures, beliefs very interesting.
It is important as a Multicultoral Society, that we learn as much as we can, and pass it on to our Lo's.
If a parent had a problem with that then I would honour their wishes.

[katickles]

oh dear - I feel this is going to turn into not a nice thread :(

Andrea was only asking for help/ideas with planning maybe we should stick to that subject:huh:

[Pauline]

oh dear - I feel this is going to turn into not a nice thread :(

Andrea was only asking for help/ideas with planning maybe we should stick to that subject:huh:

No it won't turn into a not nice thread Andrea because I am sure everyone will be respectful. :thumbsup:

That is how we are here and it is what makes this Forum so special, we value all opinions and provided they are put across in a respectful way we are all welcome to disagree. :)

Just to repeat what is said in the Forum rules for anyone who has not read them:

"I pride myself on the fact that this is a very friendly forum and although we welcome differences of opinion, and varied views, please discuss these in a way that does not become personal or offensive to anyone who disagrees with you. "

[PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER]

well said boss!

[ORKSIE]

hope this works

http://www.dltk-kids.com/world/jewish/index.htm

I use this site alot

[ORKSIE]

I thought the crown was rather cute:thumbsup:

[mama2three]

thanks pauline.
I will look at hanukah as part of my planning in the same way as diwali last month. I do not teach the children that these are 'right' only that , as someone else said ,for lots of children around the world the are very special. i hope I am professional enough to allow the needs of the children , and the requirements of childcarers regarding diversity in todays society , to come before my own views.
My own son is taught about God and how important he is in our lives ( though at the moment thinks that santa is baby jesus brother!) My mindees are taught about christian festivals , sikh and many others. My own understanding is growing rapidly as i learn alongside them. It does not change my own views or beliefs , but certainly makes me a more 'rounded' person. They have lots of opportunities for using their imaginations too!

[mama2three]

hope this works

http://www.dltk-kids.com/world/jewish/index.htm

I use this site alot

I like the idea of the marshmallow menorah! then we can eat whats left over!!!

Excuse my ignorance but what are hanukahs dates this year please?

[Pauline]

I like the idea of the marshmallow menorah! then we can eat whats left over!!!

Excuse my ignorance but what are hanukahs dates this year please?

It begins at sundown on Friday 11th December in 2009. :)

[Pauline]

oh and don't forget to check out our own REsources!

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/kuw.html

There is a nice Hanukkah Dreidel Decoration, drawn with my own fair 'mouse' :D

[ORKSIE]

oh and don't forget to check out our own REsources!

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/kuw.html

There is a nice Hanukkah Dreidel Decoration, drawn with my own fair 'mouse' :D

I know this is off Topic but I read the "Box of Love" I now have tears streaming down my face. Gotta do some of them, what a fantastic idea.

Sorry to Hi Jack the thread but just had to share:)

[Pauline]

I know this is off Topic but I read the "Box of Love" I now have tears streaming down my face. Gotta do some of them, what a fantastic idea.

Sorry to Hi Jack the thread but just had to share:)

That was one of Angel's and yes, I know what you mean :)

[charliegee]

Oh my goodness:blush: !!! x

(sorry was reading this thread and thought gosh - hope doesn't get too heated! - thanks Pauline and all for keeping it so nice (yet still open to discussion) as it always is) x

[Hebs]

I personally do NOT believe in god, nor do my children,

HOWEVER

I do activitites with the children (both my own and mindees) we have a lot of fun and if nothing else it teaches them to accept and respect EVERYONE'S views, that not one religion is right, or wrong.

I too would be livid if a childminder told my kids that god wasn't real even though I don't believe anyway,
That would be oversteppong the boundries!!!