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View Full Version : Enough is Enough!!!!!



Jemima77
06-11-2009, 07:56 PM
I have done it finally stood my ground......Had LO full time every morning since September and no payment at all to date!! Retainer for august paid. Have used up all my savings paying my bills due to lack of income and with well over £1.5k owed I told mum tonight that no payment by monday means no childcare until paid in full.(have put all this in writing too) Feel bad but I had given her notice that i would do this prior to today and have constantly asked her for money from grant!! Am not a charity and no longer want to work for free and deal with stress of not being paid!!! NCMA legal deprtment were pants at offering advice so have taken it into my own hands and am no longer going to be taken for a mug!!!!A nursery wouldnt have put up with this so why should childminders! x

TheBTeam
06-11-2009, 08:00 PM
:eek: Good for you, but what a mess to be in!

What was mums reaction? do you think she will give you any money, or will she just take the child and run!

I ask because I know a mum who left a cm friend of mine with 6 weeks unpaid fees saying waiting for grant, what she never told cm was that course only lasted one day, cancelled through lack of interest, so college were never going to pay cm, and the mum took advantage of minder not knowing that to get a load of free childcare while she put her feet up. Mum has no money so going to court wont make any immediate difference!

Jemima77
06-11-2009, 08:25 PM
I think she knew it was coming and to be honest I cant afford to work for nothing any longer. I am hoping to get this matter sorted out with mum and continue care when monies paid!!!!! If not then I will defo defo take it further!!!!!!!

Ripeberry
06-11-2009, 08:51 PM
Sorry you're in such a pickle, but why did you let it go on for so long? There is no way I would work even one week with no pay.
You need to review your payment policy and get everyone to pay up-front and then if they use more time or less you just adjust the next bill.
That way you have no stress and everyone knows where they stand. Also from straight away, start issuing a £5 per day late payment charge on top of the fees.
My CM from years ago learnt the hardway and lost almost £700 :(

Jemima77
06-11-2009, 09:01 PM
All my other mums pay upfront at beg of month and never had a problem before. Just this mum was being covered by her childcare grant from uni that as yet has not arrived! Your right I should have nipped it in the bud as soon as but I believed all of her excuses x

Hebs
06-11-2009, 09:08 PM
i had a mum who tried it on with paying her fees saying uni hadn't sorted it, i told her that it was between her and uni and had nothing to do with my fees being paid,

she is now paid in full til the kids break up for christmas :clapping:

it cleared the air, we both know where we stand and now have a fantastic working relationship :clapping:

Chatterbox Childcare
06-11-2009, 09:25 PM
A childminder friend of mine had the same issues with the college and she took the college to task herself. Spoke to the finance department and told them she could not fund this practice any longer. They now pay by bacs 2 weeks in arrears after she invoices them. They cannot pay in advance as the parent needs to attend to be paid.

mushpea
07-11-2009, 01:03 PM
I had this last year and was owed quite a lot, I was going to refuse chlidcare like you but was told by the ncma legal line if i did this then i would be in breach of contract even though the parent was in breech first, so wouldnt be able to get my money back so i worked the notice period still with no pay and the ncma helped me get my money back, i found them to be very helpful and smypathetic.

patevans
07-11-2009, 01:19 PM
I did this once and the parent kept bringing the child but wasnt attending college (I never knew) so I wasnt going to get paid for the sessions she was using, it wasnt until I sent the invoice that they said "oh we cant pay you as the lady is no longer on the course and hasnt been for the past 4 weeks" so I terminated immediately and now its cash up front always or NO childcare!

SIMPLES :laughing:

Goatgirl
07-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Hi Jemima,
Good for you - Its not easy is it?
I had to charge late fees from one (lovely) set of parents this month. It was only 15 minutes, but my time is my time, full stop and they're welcome to ring and ask for more time at normal hourly fee if they think they'll be held up - which they didn't... on two occasions. I didn't charge for the first incident, but when it happened again I felt I coudn't let it go as they'll get the impression its not a big deal.
Although its all clearly stated in my fees policy I still feel bad about it. I know they had a vey accommodating childminder before me who charged very little and went out of her way to make their lives easier, so i think its going to come as quite a shock to them :(

Hope it all works out for you and the Mum manages to get some money together to pay you for the work you've done, at least :)

bws,
Wendy

miffy
07-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I hope this prompts mum to get her act together and sort out payments from college so she can pay you

Miffy xx

Ripeberry
07-11-2009, 02:59 PM
Don't think I'd take on this kind of work, as you may have to work a whole month for no pay and then find out you might not even get paid :( Upfront payments or nothing.

Jemima77
07-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I have now been told by mum that she may have to wait upto 6 weeks for an emergency loan to come through!!!!!!!!!!so she will have to seek alternative childcare otherwise she will loose her place on the course! I have told her that I will take this as her months notice and although not having child I will still add onto her debt a months notice...I am so upset that i have done so much for her and it ended like this and also why is she getting an emergency loan wouldnt you be chasing up the people for the childcare grant that i was supposed to be being paid for?????? Does this sound suss to anyone else?Any advice on who to contact now to get advice apart from the NCMA?

Goatgirl
08-11-2009, 06:47 PM
hi Jemima,
Sorry this has happened :(.
If it was me, I'd speak to the college/university direct, at least you might get to the bottom of what's really going on/how the system is working etc

Hope you get your money back: don't know where you'll stand in terms of breaching the contract though as you have withdrawn care and therefore broken the contract yourself... there seems to be conflicting info regarding claiming your money back in these circumstances.

is there maybe any way you could come to an arrangement with the mum where you continue to provide care with payment from her to cover immediate expenses - food, resources etc, just until the loan comes through? I've a feeling you may have a fight on your hands to get the money otherwise: she may countersue for the charges she will have to give to her new childcare provider and if she's unable to find someone at short notice, she may well lose her place at college and I don't know whether she'd still be entitled for payments for the part of the course she's already completed.?

I know she has had notice etc and she should have sorted out the loan or actual childcare payment before now... but she hasn't.
I hope you can salvage something from the chaos. All the best..

take care,
Wendy

miffy
08-11-2009, 07:00 PM
I would also speak to the college and see if you can find out what has been happening.

I have been in this position in the past and I know it does sometimes take time to sort out the grants.

I don't think you have breached the contract - as payment had not been made on the due date then surely the parent breached the contract herself.

You might be able to salvage something from this once you have the full picture.

Miffy xx

georgie456
08-11-2009, 10:16 PM
I have now been told by mum that she may have to wait upto 6 weeks for an emergency loan to come through!!!!!!!!!!so she will have to seek alternative childcare otherwise she will loose her place on the course! I have told her that I will take this as her months notice and although not having child I will still add onto her debt a months notice...I am so upset that i have done so much for her and it ended like this and also why is she getting an emergency loan wouldnt you be chasing up the people for the childcare grant that i was supposed to be being paid for?????? Does this sound suss to anyone else?Any advice on who to contact now to get advice apart from the NCMA?

Where is she going to find alternative childcare with no money???!!! She'll end up owing 2 people this way. What a nightmare - I REALLY hope you get your money hun x

charliegee
08-11-2009, 10:24 PM
ah what a horrible situation for you! hope you get you money

x

Chatterbox Childcare
09-11-2009, 09:17 AM
PLEASE READ

You cannot refuse care and be paid your notice period unless you are prepared to work.

That came direct from the NCMA legal line.

Jemima77
09-11-2009, 02:31 PM
So they expect you to work for nothing and then when you do refuse care after giving the parent enough time to sort it out you dont get paid for it and the parent gets away with not paying for the time she is trying to sort it out which in this case should have been done 2 months ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So all in all I am the one that looses out of business and work as wont be able to fill the space immediately......ridiculous!!!!!

LittleMissSparkles
09-11-2009, 04:01 PM
I dont really care what NCMA say to be honest because in small claims court the contract count for FA in my opinion and experience , I would personally refuse care and let her take me to small claims court knowing what I know and chance it, but then thats just my opinion and view, i cant afford to work for nothing and I wont, I wouldnt have let it get further than a week though and has been said your contract is with the parent not the college so it was her responcibility to make sure she could pay you not theirs

( sorry if i offend anyone with my bluntness but my head is not in a good place right now and im not takin it from anyone anymore )

xxx

The Juggler
09-11-2009, 04:29 PM
hi Jemima,
Sorry this has happened :(.
If it was me, I'd speak to the college/university direct, at least you might get to the bottom of what's really going on/how the system is working etc

Hope you get your money back: don't know where you'll stand in terms of breaching the contract though as you have withdrawn care and therefore broken the contract yourself... there seems to be conflicting info regarding claiming your money back in these circumstances.



I agree, speak to the uni. When the money comes through it is due to you. Tell them what has happened. I don't believe you have breached the contract working for this long with no pay. I think a recent thread said NCMA were changing it's stance on this now and in my view this is a substantial amount - in fact you've never been paid! You are not giving notice simply saying you will not continue until payment is made.

They WILL be paying mum at some point so you need to ensure that they somehow make sure the money is directed to you!

nokidshere
10-11-2009, 11:40 AM
PLEASE READ

You cannot refuse care and be paid your notice period unless you are prepared to work.

That came direct from the NCMA legal line.


That would only apply if you were using NCMA contracts though?

All my parents have in writing at the commencement of their contracts that no pay means no childcare with immediate effect. They sign to say they agree. My contract - my rules.

If I ever got in this position I would let them take me to court -they wouldn;t have a leg to stand on!

bexcee
10-11-2009, 03:17 PM
I'd ring the college/uni and explain the situation and see what they say. How do you know she hasn't had the money and spent it herself? Unless they college pay the money direct to the childcare provider it's always going to be open to abuse.
Check she is still enrolled at college and attending, ask why the grant hasn't been paid for so long, when it will be paid and when you can expect to see some money.
Good luck with it all, you have been very patient to wait so long and work for no fees for so long. I hope it all works out for you

Jemima77
10-11-2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks everyone for your support sometimes you just want to hear that people are behind you in times like this....Mum got meeting tommorrow with the student union so hoping to get something at least sorted out even if it is to just found out where the money has got too. I think she has spent it but we shall see!!!!!!xx

diddledumplings
25-01-2010, 07:42 AM
The same has happened to me but with Tax Credits and I think mum has had the money and spent it as it was just before Christmas. If mum isn't working and has spent the money I don't think you can get it back even if you do take her to small claims court. I'm having a similar problem and in the NCMA solicitors claim pack it says they will look at the employment of the parent to decide if they can pay the debt.

I don't know what to do in regard to claiming because a member of the NCMA legal advice line gave me what seemed excellent advice (which I followed to the letter) until I rang them back for a claim form!

I'll see how things go but considering looking for insurance elsewhere when due for renewal.

Hope you get things sorted hun, it's not a nice position to be in.

Sending hugs xx

little chickee
25-01-2010, 10:07 AM
The NCMA have not helped you with this situation so i don't really see why you should follow their rules.

If they have taken your case on board and are actively pursueing it to get you your money back then yes stick to the rules.

but if you have asked for their help and you are not receiveing it then stuff the rules - i would not have the child for one minute longer without being paid.

I would consider continueing care a week at a time as long as from now on she pays for each week up front and then continue to chase up the backlog.

Stacey
25-01-2010, 01:37 PM
What an awful situation to be in. I would have had to have said something if i hadnt recieved payment after a couple of weeks. Thats alot of money she needs to pay-fingers crossed you get it.:o

Blue Boy
25-01-2010, 01:45 PM
What a mess. It is easy to say that you should have stopped it earlier but that is no hepl to you. Hope you get the right result. We alllearn from our mistakes:rolleyes:

Take care lots of love

Mick xx

sarahlou
25-01-2010, 02:08 PM
I had the same situation and the parent owed me £800 and pre school 200 I terminated the contract as you did until payment was given then i found out that i had breached my contract by not giving them notice and still £800 out of pocket and so is pre school - be careful is my advice and make sure you cover yourself I know its hard but if it went to court you could be in breach tooo

Sarah

diddledumplings
25-01-2010, 07:22 PM
I know I should have stopped it earlier but there were a lot of factors which stopped me from terminating - I'd have still been the same out of pocket anyway!
I wanted paying 5 weeks for the 5 week month but tax credits only pay 4 weekly, then the child was off ill for a week, then I asked everyday for the money the following week when she came back and then she didn't bother to turn up the following week or make contact so I ended the contact with immediate affect upon the advice of the NCMA legal advice line as apparently you can do so to "mitigate losses" and you only have to give 7 days notice to pay but the other woman I spoke when requesting a claim form said I shouldn't have done this so :rolleyes:
so you can see how 8 weeks just creeps up.
Don't know what I'm going to do yet but I'm not letting the NCMA deal with they have been worse then useless up to now and the tax credits people don't want to know - how about that for injustice

Trouble
25-01-2010, 07:37 PM
I know I should have stopped it earlier but there were a lot of factors which stopped me from terminating - I'd have still been the same out of pocket anyway!
I wanted paying 5 weeks for the 5 week month but tax credits only pay 4 weekly, then the child was off ill for a week, then I asked everyday for the money the following week when she came back and then she didn't bother to turn up the following week or make contact so I ended the contact with immediate affect upon the advice of the NCMA legal advice line as apparently you can do so to "mitigate losses" and you only have to give 7 days notice to pay but the other woman I spoke when requesting a claim form said I shouldn't have done this so :rolleyes:
so you can see how 8 weeks just creeps up.
Don't know what I'm going to do yet but I'm not letting the NCMA deal with they have been worse then useless up to now and the tax credits people don't want to know - how about that for injustice

Ncma told me this also so i think you did the right think love

i hope you get it sorted xx

onceinabluemoon
25-01-2010, 08:13 PM
A bit late for this time but to save yourself a lot of grief next time switch to morton michel contracts!

They have it built into the contract that if a parent fails to pay as agreed care may be suspended until all fees are paid. They also have late payment fees built into the contract!

Hope you manage to get paid ok. When I was at uni a few years ago our childcare was sorted out really quickly and not reliant on us being in class like colleges are (all uni's could be different though). An emergency loan takes a week or so to be processed not 6 weeks. I'd give the uni a ring and see if they can tell you anything. xx

Trouble
25-01-2010, 08:17 PM
A bit late for this time but to save yourself a lot of grief next time switch to morton michel contracts!

They have it built into the contract that if a parent fails to pay as agreed care may be suspended until all fees are paid. They also have late payment fees built into the contract!

Hope you manage to get paid ok. When I was at uni a few years ago our childcare was sorted out really quickly and not reliant on us being in class like colleges are (all uni's could be different though). An emergency loan takes a week or so to be processed not 6 weeks. I'd give the uni a ring and see if they can tell you anything. xx

are they better than ncma :idea:

i have never used them before

Pudding Girl
25-01-2010, 09:17 PM
A bit late for this time but to save yourself a lot of grief next time switch to morton michel contracts!

They have it built into the contract that if a parent fails to pay as agreed care may be suspended until all fees are paid. They also have late payment fees built into the contract!



Not only that, MM will reimburse you (within a week I have heard tell!) for fees unpaid then take the further steps to recover the money themselves, you won't be out of pocket.

wendywu
25-01-2010, 10:38 PM
Thats it then, this will be the last year that i am going with the NCMA. I feel they have let us down badly:angry:

diddledumplings
25-01-2010, 10:55 PM
Sorry I seem to have hijacked this thread.

I will definately be going with MM when my renewals due. I'm just hoping my problems are all sorted by then whichever way I decide to go about it.

I'm going to citizens advice to see what they say because apparently I can get 30 mins with a solicitor for free and I believe that some solicitors if they think they can defo win the case will do it for nothing and reclaim their fees from parent but don't quote me. I just feel more comfortable talking with somone face to face and so they can look through my "evidence" and discussing my options instead of feeling like I'm being forced to go down the ncma route.

Lets just say its a hard lesson learnt and I think tax credits should have an alternative system and they pay parents with vouchers like the busy bees scheme to avoid all this fraud.

diddledumplings
25-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Ncma told me this also so i think you did the right think love

i hope you get it sorted xx

What did ncma tell you hun - that you could terminate immediately to mitigate losses?!!!????

The second woman I spoke to said I shouldn't have done that and that I was then in breach of the contract even though she was first and that she could then counter claim. I should have given her 4 weeks notice according to them.

Think I've been royally screwed over by ncma's legal advice team, really don't know where to go with this one, useless :censored: (feel free to use your own expletive) :laughing:

upadaisy
17-02-2010, 12:01 AM
good on you,
this also happened to me about 6 mts ago,
mum left leaving a bill of 600.00 behind her,
when i finally got in contact with her ( took a while but i did not give up :angry: ) she said she did not have it, :blush:
my answer to her was - you did have it as tax credits paid it to you for you to give to me and that is was not my fault if you spent it.
i told her in nice way that that was better known as frauding the goverment,
nicma advised me to write her a letter giving her 7 working days to pay in full or i would take her to the small claims court,
explaining to her that my insurance covered me for my costs.
she did pay up in full on the 6th day.:panic:
be firm with parents but nice,
if we did wrong we would soon hear about it.

candy cat
18-02-2010, 07:34 PM
I can't believe people would use our services and not pay....I would die of embaressment!!!

Changed my mind I will join MM

Phone the uni and speak to finance and that your chasing up your payment.

Let us know the outcome cx