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David Sheppard
26-10-2009, 09:08 AM
Hi All,

I run a Professional Support Group in Fareham, on behalf of Hampshire NCMA, at my local Sure-Start centre (Merryfields) on a Monday morning during term time. The aim is for the children to have the opportunity to socialise with other adults and children, plus, for the adults (childminders & parents etc) to have face-to-face discussions and to resolve any issues they may have.

Clearly from the thousands of posts on this forum, many of you choose this type of facility over the chance to actually meet real childminders.

My question to everyone is whether or not you would support these types of drop-in sessions by coming along (in your own area of course) and help to raise the standards of your childcare provision?

Regards

David Sheppard EYP

mama2three
26-10-2009, 09:28 AM
I attend a childminding group weekly for support and for socialisation. parents are not present at this session though. I also use the forum for support. im unsure what additional benefits id get from attending a group such as yours?

David Sheppard
26-10-2009, 09:35 AM
I attend a childminding group weekly for support and for socialisation. parents are not present at this session though. I also use the forum for support. im unsure what additional benefits id get from attending a group such as yours?

Hi,

The parents, that can drop-in, are ones that are visiting the Sure-Start centre for whatever reason. They are not directly invited as the childminders are, but are not excluded either. This also acts as an opportunity for childminders to directly offer or describe their services to prospective new clients.

I'm really pleased to hear you do support your group, our area has many hundreds of registered childminders but only a handful attend these types of sessions, which is a great shame as the Sure-Start facilities on offer to the children are exceptional.

David

mama2three
26-10-2009, 09:47 AM
i agree it would be good to invite parents looking for childminders to this type of 'meeting' so they can see how different minders interact with children , chat informally etc. But i also think its important for minders to have time to socialise when they are not 'under scrutiny' , time to have a moan if thats what they need at the time , time when they can relax in the knowledge that everyone is looking out for all the children. Perhaps a compromise where the parents are invited on say the last session each month would work?

Pipsqueak
26-10-2009, 09:53 AM
I run a support/drop-in (NCMA) once a week (now going fortnightly due to my other commitments) - which is very successful in many ways. The aim of these drop in's is so we can support each other and also to as you say help raise the standards within childminding - not that it always works!
I also run infrequent ones round the town where I live.

I think much of the problem is that some childminders are in their little cliques and can be quite nasty, many of them don't want to change their practice and are very good and doing what needs to be done/said in front of the right people and also CC's (and their staff) can be very awkward/unwelcoming towards childminders. I currently have an issue at the moment with the EYP's where I run one drop in.

That said - the drop ins are extremely beneficial and successful and we have a great group running.

brightstar
26-10-2009, 09:55 AM
I would love it there was something like this in my area. I really value the forum with all the support it offers but would love to be able to socialise with other childminders during the working day.

madasahatter
26-10-2009, 09:56 AM
I attend our local support group once a week which is for childminders only at our local children's centre. And yes it's great, but sometimes you have issues that you cannot discuss with your childminding colleagues because they know your children and so confidentiality becomes a real issue. A classic example of this is non-paying families or if you have issues that result in giving notice to a family. How can the family succeed in finding new childcare if their problems are known in the locality (even if you wouldn't wish them on your worst enemy). When you've only got a few LO's it's easy enough for others to draw the correct conclusions on which families your problems concern ITSWIM and then are you truly maintaining confidentiality.
For this reason I have always remained pretty anonymous on this forum. There are a couple of childminders on here (good ones I might add!) who I know personally and see regularly but as far as I know they do not know me as a member of this forum.
We use our local support group to share good practice, activity ideas, socialise (both us adults and the children) and discuss up and coming training etc. I personnally will only discuss issues with my immediate childminding colleagues which are very obvious (in the public arena) because it has to be dealt with in the session...eg. a child's biting problem, what I've tried, any other suggestions

Chatterbox Childcare
26-10-2009, 10:21 AM
I was invited to one of these groups and went along to support the organiser. It was a lovely setting but only had a maximum capacity of 15 adults so is no good to run my own local group in as we have up to 25 at a time with 3 children each and I don't want to have to run a waiting list or exclude anyone who wants to come along.

The Juggler
26-10-2009, 11:14 AM
i go to my local group. the childminders who do not like to interact with their children or play with them tried it and don't come anymore as there is no facility for them to sit, chat and drink coffee. i continue to attend another group where they can do this in the hope that i might at some point be able to influence them to interact differently with their children. whilst it's fine to have a coffee break, sometimes it's good to play with the children too.

Sorry, being devil's advocate! what i'm trying to say is that you can only influence those who want influencing. at the cc group i go to the manager is lovely and supportive but doesn't know (as she admits) much about childminding but influences through the activities she provides. our DO who pops in from time to time, never speaks or introduces herself to anyone really and I have never seen her ask or discuss practice. Lots of new childminders come and although we don't have support minders in our borough I am able to support them alongside the manager, which is great.

I went along to a FCCERS (family child care environmental rating scale) session the other week to find out what it was all about. I found out she had planned to assess us under FCCERS at the sesssion:eek: . She had her clipboard and seemingly had not planned to get our permission to observe us or the children. I told her that I was not prepared to be assessed under this rating scale in an environment over which I had no control as this seemed unfair but she was welcome to come to mine. that was 3 weeks ago, no call since.;) :angry:

My point is that those who want to get advice will come to those groups but you need the right person supporting them - one who knows more than the people attending already know, or with different experience, who knows how to deal with them professionally and give advice in the right way - or even knows how to interact with other childminders (not like our DO).

I know this is a bit of a rant but I find that new and current childminders who want advice will seek it from those more experienced than themselves in whatever environment, this forum, the right drop in group or with close CM friends. Those who want to improve practice will seek to do that and those who don't are and will continue to be hard to reach. It's those that DO's and EYP's need to target but unfortunately whilst the remit is to improve such practice there is no real way/obligation for childminders to take part in such initiatives no matter how much pressure put on them.

As someone else's thread said about a childminder, even illegal practice have elicted no more than a slap on wrist from ofsted but no withdrawal of registration. It affects your grade but there is no incentive there to change for those who don't care about their practice.

Pipsqueak
26-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Sorry, being devil's advocate! what i'm trying to say is that you can only influence those who want influencing. My point is that those who want to get advice will come to those groups but you need the right person supporting them - one who knows more than the people attending already know, or with different experience, who knows how to deal with them professionally and give advice in the right way - or even knows how to interact with other childminders (not like our DO).

but I find that new and current childminders who want advice will seek it from those more experienced than themselves in whatever environment, this forum, the right drop in group or with close CM friends. Those who want to improve practice will seek to do that and those who don't are and will continue to be hard to reach. It's those that DO's and EYP's need to target but unfortunately whilst the remit is to improve such practice there is no real way/obligation for childminders to take part in such initiatives no matter how much pressure put on them.

As someone else's thread said about a childminder, even illegal practice have elicted no more than a slap on wrist from ofsted but no withdrawal of registration. It affects your grade but there is no incentive there to change for those who don't care about their practice.

Well said Juggler :clapping:

tammerisk
26-10-2009, 11:52 AM
i attend and run a childminding support group at our local childrens center i have a striving need to inprove my practice all the time and i do change things as the needs arise i undertake training and impliment all that i learn into my practice and i am threr for anyone who need my help in any way.

when i moved to this area ii live in for m the other side of town my son was 3 days old and i went to the center to the group even though i wasn't minding so that i could get to know and meet other but there was no one there so after being told by mt do that i ticked all the right boxes as far a what they were looking for for a childminder for this centers reach area to meet there criteria as they are a phase one sur start center i have been involed in alot of the goings on a nd development of the childrens center and helping to create links with the local childminder and beond.

i hope that it is doing some good some where and i do go out of my way to help i konw personl the child minder in my area and encourage them to come to group(hasn't worked yet but all i can do is keep trying)
i have helped the family support service by encourgeing them to use childminders and have been recomended personly by them and all the center staff know me and have recomended me to perspective parents.

Pauline
26-10-2009, 12:07 PM
We have both in our area. A group for just childminders one day, a group for minders and anyone who wants to drop in on another.

We also have Network meetings at regular intervals throughout the year for minders (no children) to gather information, support and advice.

I agree with Juggler, those that want to further their childminding career will seek out places to do that. Others will complain that they get no help, will moan that they don't know any Ofsted 'rules', yet refuse to access the support on offer :rolleyes:

Roseolivia
26-10-2009, 01:34 PM
I attend a childminders drop in group every Monday. There's only about 7 of us that go but there's also another minder group on at the same time and other parent/toddler groups (which minders attend). I like going to the drop in group as i get to chat to other minders. I also attend a parent/toddler group in the village i live in which has a mix of parents and minders which is nice as well.

David Sheppard
26-10-2009, 01:56 PM
I do find it really sad that exactly the same small minority of dedicated childminders appear at all of the training events, attend the drop-ins, Professional Support Groups, and strive to raise the profile of Early Years Provision. Yet it is the, so called, silent invisible majority that are the major influence in detemining the professional standing of childminding.

Quite how the greater half of this profession, who are yet to even reach a minimum educational standard of level 3, are to be encouraged is the real challenge facing us all. I do know, however, that until all childminders can be brought onboard to embrace Continuous Professional Development, we are likely to be viewed as the 'second-class' citizens of the Early Years world.

One of the strangest questions I get asked, a lot, is 'What are you going to do now you are an EYP?' The inference is that being an EYP means that I shouldn't be a childminder as this isn't considered a 'proper' job worthy of the status. They find it even stranger when I throw the question back at them and correct them that the best EY childcare takes place in a home-based environment. Exactly the care provided by childminders.

Many initiatives are under way and NCMA are to be applauded for all their efforts. Over 40% of members have taken the first great steps on the CPD road. Realistically this means that there is still such a huge gap to fill. Forums like this one and support groups like those I provide are making a difference too. But in the end - it is up to every individual to embrace change and strive for excellence.

David

sarah707
26-10-2009, 02:07 PM
I go to my local group and it is excellent.

However I do know of groups around the country where childminders are not made to feel welcome... and others where childminders have been treated badly.

for some childminders, I think it is sometimes easier to sit at home and get on with the job, coming on here as you say for support, than going out with lots of children to a group where they think they might be judged.

:D

Pipsqueak
26-10-2009, 02:12 PM
But you could go one step further couldn't you David - CPD is all well and good but its what you do with it.
Like you say, there is always the same people who appear on the training but I know for a fact that at least 5 of the ones who do the circuit only go because (and this is from them) it makes it look like we are interested, basically they are jumping through a hoop because they think it makes them look impressive. Again I know for a fact, that their practice or outlook has not changed at all in doing training or ie/NVQ.

The CDO's, CDW's, EY team are well aware of who these people are and are totally powerless. It really peeps me off:( These are the same people who do the rounds of drop in, soft play and toddler (coffee) groups!

BUT I have noticed over the last few ICP's that there is a 'new breed' of minder coming in - those that really care, those that are going to be great minders because they have a different ethos.:clapping:

loobyloo168
26-10-2009, 02:18 PM
I would love a group that welcomed new minders to a group. But all i find are clicky, bitchy minders, who look you up and down then carry on in their huddle. Sorry to say. I just keep myself to myself now.

David Sheppard
26-10-2009, 02:33 PM
But you could go one step further couldn't you David - CPD is all well and good but its what you do with it.
Like you say, there is always the same people who appear on the training but I know for a fact that at least 5 of the ones who do the circuit only go because (and this is from them) it makes it look like we are interested, basically they are jumping through a hoop because they think it makes them look impressive. Again I know for a fact, that their practice or outlook has not changed at all in doing training or ie/NVQ.

The CDO's, CDW's, EY team are well aware of who these people are and are totally powerless. It really peeps me off:( These are the same people who do the rounds of drop in, soft play and toddler (coffee) groups!

BUT I have noticed over the last few ICP's that there is a 'new breed' of minder coming in - those that really care, those that are going to be great minders because they have a different ethos.:clapping:

I'm sorry to say I completely agree with you. And hope that I'm one of those 'new breed' who are trying to break the mould through gentle encouragement, displaying 'best practice' and offering meaningful support.

As far as cliches are concerned - I don't have any of them at my groups. But then I also don't have coffee or tea at the session (I don't drink them he he he :p ). As I explain to all new attendees that they are a hazard to the children (spilt hot drinks) and that they detract from any invited interaction with their children's engaged play. I have been really surprised how well this rule has gone down and how all of my group members have appreciated the openness and friendliness of everyone when they are all welcomed and valued.

Perhaps a tip that others could use?

The Juggler
26-10-2009, 02:34 PM
But you could go one step further couldn't you David - CPD is all well and good but its what you do with it.
Like you say, there is always the same people who appear on the training but I know for a fact that at least 5 of the ones who do the circuit only go because (and this is from them) it makes it look like we are interested, basically they are jumping through a hoop because they think it makes them look impressive. Again I know for a fact, that their practice or outlook has not changed at all in doing training or ie/NVQ.

The CDO's, CDW's, EY team are well aware of who these people are and are totally powerless. It really peeps me off:( These are the same people who do the rounds of drop in, soft play and toddler (coffee) groups!

BUT I have noticed over the last few ICP's that there is a 'new breed' of minder coming in - those that really care, those that are going to be great minders because they have a different ethos.:clapping:


I totally agree Pipsqueak. I know people who do this and tell me (and parents) they don't agree with the ofsted stuff but the paperwork is there in case she is checked. One of them got outstanding. Getting everyone to Level 3 is not going to change things unless people implement what they learn or the learning has some impact on them to change their practice. That's why personally I think good EYP's avaiable or knowledgeable, CDO/CDW's and fantastic support childminders are the way to go.

Those without Level 3's can sometimes outdo the Level 3 qualifieds on best practice but it's because they care not because of the training. Nearly all of the new childminder's I see are,as you say, a different breed. Often, Mum's who've had their children in childcare before and know what they want to be as a childcarer from good and bad experience.

I wish we had a better CDO and I wish more childminders would care as much as forum members do about improving our care for children. As someone else said, we all care and want to help each other and new CM's and, the forum means share without breaking confidentiality, which we couldn't do at a local group.

Mouse
26-10-2009, 02:37 PM
I'm sorry to say I completely agree with you. And hope that I'm one of those 'new breed' who are trying to break the mould through gentle encouragement, displaying 'best practice' and offering meaningful support.

As far as cliches are concerned - I don't have any of them at my groups. But then I also don't have coffee or tea at the session (I don't drink them he he he :p ). As I explain to all new attendees that they are a hazard to the children (spilt hot drinks) and that they detract from any invited interaction with their children's engaged play. I have been really surprised how well this rule has gone down and how all of my group members have appreciated the openness and friendliness of everyone when they are all welcomed and valued.

Perhaps a tip that others could use?

I admire your dedication David, but a group without coffee :eek: :eek:

I interact very well with all the children at the group (not just the ones I care for) and manage to drink a cup of coffee as well. I'm good at multi-tasking :thumbsup:

I think the difference with our group is that we run it together, without anyone in charge or making rules. It's worked well for years.

sweets
26-10-2009, 02:41 PM
ive got to have a cuppa at toddler groups, sometimes its the first one of the day!

Ive been going to groups for 20 years and havnt seen an accident with a hot drink ever! people are careful.

i go to one group a week that is just minders and we are very interactive with the children and do songs, crafts, stories, lunch etc.

The other group i go to is a mixture of mums, nans, dads and minders, we do tend to sit in our 'groups' i think its a natural thing, but are very welcoming to newbies.

sdean
26-10-2009, 02:46 PM
I would love a group that welcomed new minders to a group. But all i find are clicky, bitchy minders, who look you up and down then carry on in their huddle. Sorry to say. I just keep myself to myself now.

This is definitely what I experienced when I first started minding! Now as soon as someone new walks into the childminding group I go straight over and talk to them and explain where things are etc then introduce them to others. THere is nothing worse than standing in a room full of people and feeling totally alone.!

Mouse
26-10-2009, 02:54 PM
This is definitely what I experienced when I first started minding! Now as soon as someone new walks into the childminding group I go straight over and talk to them and explain where things are etc then introduce them to others. THere is nothing worse than standing in a room full of people and feeling totally alone.!

Good for you!

I remember one of the first meetings I went to that was at a minder's house. I walked in, introduced myself & was totally ignored by everyone there!

Luckily there was another group to go to where the minders were like you. They welcomed me with open arms, explained the little 'in jokes', showed me how everything worked & where everything was. I've never looked back & was always very grateful to them.

I try to do the same now & we are known for being a very welcoming, friendly group.

Pipsqueak
26-10-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm sorry to say I completely agree with you. And hope that I'm one of those 'new breed' who are trying to break the mould through gentle encouragement, displaying 'best practice' and offering meaningful support.

As far as cliches are concerned - I don't have any of them at my groups. But then I also don't have coffee or tea at the session (I don't drink them he he he :p ). As I explain to all new attendees that they are a hazard to the children (spilt hot drinks) and that they detract from any invited interaction with their children's engaged play. I have been really surprised how well this rule has gone down and how all of my group members have appreciated the openness and friendliness of everyone when they are all welcomed and valued.

Perhaps a tip that others could use?

You cerainly sound like one of the 'new breed':thumbsup: :D
We don't have tea or coffee at our sessions, nor do I have chairs out for the adults but that sadly does not encourage some of the minders to interact with their charges.:( AGain its always the same people (me and a couple of others) who interact with the bairns. I always try to model good practice (I get very frustrated at times), I have produced a resource/activity book - as I have taken to encouraging attendees to do an activity for the group and this is going down well but rather hard going at times - last weeks one was fab (pine cone mice) but the children weren't allowed to do it because apparently a) the adults were enjoying it b) the children would mess it up:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The daft thing is - the ones who need a rocket up their behinds - occasionally just occasionally they have moments of inspriation and they show that they have massive potential there to be fab minders - they know what they should be doing.
Until minders actually start thinking of themselves as having a proper job, doing a valuable job and being professional then sadly we still have a way to go. sorry this is one of my bug bears.

David Sheppard
26-10-2009, 02:56 PM
ive got to have a cuppa at toddler groups, sometimes its the first one of the day!

Ive been going to groups for 20 years and havnt seen an accident with a hot drink ever! people are careful.

i go to one group a week that is just minders and we are very interactive with the children and do songs, crafts, stories, lunch etc.

The other group i go to is a mixture of mums, nans, dads and minders, we do tend to sit in our 'groups' i think its a natural thing, but are very welcoming to newbies.

Sorry, I made it sound a bit dramatic - the bit about spilt hot drinks is said with a very big tounge-in-cheek :laughing: LOL. It is the clichiness of the coffee huddle that I do not agree with :panic: . I encourage the adults to interact with the all the children and the other adults. I always welcome anyone new and make a point of introducing everyone to everyone else. We don't have any adult sized chairs either as these sessions are for the benefit of the children primarily. We start at 9:30 and run for 2 hour. No-one has ever complained - exactly the opposite in fact - they have all said to me how much they like this format. And what's more, they have brought friends along and keep coming back.

madasahatter
26-10-2009, 02:57 PM
I admire your dedication David, but a group without coffee

I agree Mouse, but it's tea in my case. As with everything else it's a matter of risk assessing what you are doing and teaching children about risks too. At our group hot drinks are restricted to a certain area where there is somewhere out of reach of LO's to put your drink if you need to. We naturally split into two groups at snack time, one to serve and watch over the LO's whilst the others have their drink, then swap over, the second group watching the LO's then clearing away. I'd be mega dehydrated if I couldn't have my tea! I dislike most soft drinks/squashes and find it hard to force myself to drink water (I forget and then wonder why I have a headache!).
In 12 yrs of minding I have never spilt a hot drink on/near a child or seen it happen. This does not mean the risk doesn't exist, it just means we are aware and successfully take steps to avoid it happening. The current trend of toddler groups becoming 'no hot drink zones' to me is over zealous 'nannying'. I would far rather see posters from CAPT about hot drink safety and warnings, rather than blanket bans that almost suggest we are ignorant of the dangers and don't possess an ounce of common sense (which is how I feel some of the staff at our local sure start children's centre view childminders)

mama2three
26-10-2009, 03:18 PM
At the toddler group i worked at we had uproar when 'redesigning' the setting. we felt it had become too 'cliquey' and not welcoming to new mums at all. the same groups sat together , largely ignoring the littlies. We removed the grown up chairs apart from a couple in the baby area ( for nursing mums) and made a snack zone for the children to sit at with snacks. previously they had helped themselves to biscuits and wandered round with them. it took quite a while for things to settle down but once it did the mums would interact much more with their child - and new mums joining in at the same table or activity would automatically have a reference point to start chatting about - even if it was about how their lo kept eating the playdough. whatever.
That said , i hope i am one of the new breed as its been called. But , at my childminding group it would not look that way. Im new. im not in a hurry to step on anyones toes. And i interact constantly with the children at home , at childminding group i like to let them have a bit less input - teaching them valuable skills in a specially designed and risk assessed setting where all the adults present look out for all the little ones. Yes , I relax a little more , have a chat , have a coffee.:rolleyes: It does not make me a worse childminder if im not full on with the children all the time , and i dont think i would be doing them any favours if I was.

The Juggler
26-10-2009, 03:19 PM
I admire your dedication David, but a group without coffee :eek: :eek:

I interact very well with all the children at the group (not just the ones I care for) and manage to drink a cup of coffee as well. I'm good at multi-tasking :thumbsup:

I think the difference with our group is that we run it together, without anyone in charge or making rules. It's worked well for years.


have to agree I need my coffee mid-morning too!:p

Tired
26-10-2009, 03:58 PM
Mama2three,
I agree with you about needing to relax.

The good cms, (of which I hope I am one), spend all the time interacting with the children. It can be a very isolating job.

When we go to CM groups it is nice to speak to other adults, let off steam, get professional advice and just generally have a chat, knowing that the children are in a safe environment, and you are there for them if they want to interact with you.

We cant do this at the usual mother and toddler groups, as we don't know who else is there, we must be vigilant at all times and be professional and dedicated to the children.

So I see CM groups as a way to relax a little, and get advice and friendship, and to recharge my batteries for 90 mins for the rest of the week when I am totally committed to the children 100%

But I do think that advice is a central thing here, I don't think we should chat about what was on TV etc, we need to make use of the time we get with other professionals to either seek or offer help.

Pauline
26-10-2009, 05:38 PM
There is the same rule at one of our groups re coffee/hot drinks, not our rule, it is the Sure Start Centre's which we accept.

But sometimes being able to have a hot drink while there are other people around to interact with the child is a good thing, for the minder and the child - otherwise you could go all day without a decent drink!!

Ours must be the only profession where you get no tea breaks, no dinner break ........ no breaks full stop! :eek:

Going back to those who use groups - there are over 70 childminders who have access to ours yet it is the same half dozen who attend. The room is fantastic, we have access to all the play equipment, all the craft resources and wonderful outdoor play, all secure, safe and child friendly. We have sent out flyers, had promotions, freebies, speakers, but nothing seems to tempt them to leave home, what more can we do? :huh:

jumpinjen
26-10-2009, 05:54 PM
I am trying to set up a childminding support group in my area at the moment and it is hard going, I have invited as many minders as I can find locally, have the support of the local children's centre but find that i am battling buorocracy all the time. Apparently our EY team should have been organising chil;dminding support groups for two years but have done nothing. I am finding that they are now 'jumping on the band wagon' and trying to take control of the group away from the childminders and use it to tick their boxes. it's incredibly frustrating.... they won't tell the minders in the process of registering about the group because they only want them to have 'proper' advice.... when i first registered I was desperate to meet local minders and I find it sad that they are blocking them off from us when they need to feel a part of things to fend off the isolation. Plus EY are not popular round here as they are very 'top-down' and 'monitor' us rather than supporting us (their words, not mine!) so now EY have got their claws in, the few that were coming are a bit put off...

having said all that, they do seem to enjoy the moaning a bit too much but don't actually want to do anything to change things IMO, such as work together to find a good way to plan, they just go on about how impossible it is and how they can't do it and how they haven't done any planning for months. I enjoy learning and trying to change things to work better and improve the care I give and I find it sad that others take such a limited view.

Best Wishes, Jenni

Madminder
28-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Mama2three,
When we go to CM groups it is nice to speak to other adults, let off steam, get professional advice and just generally have a chat, knowing that the children are in a safe environment, and you are there for them if they want to interact with you.

We cant do this at the usual mother and toddler groups, as we don't know who else is there, we must be vigilant at all times and be professional and dedicated to the children.

So I see CM groups as a way to relax a little, and get advice and friendship, and to recharge my batteries for 90 mins for the rest of the week when I am totally committed to the children 100%

I really agree with you here, I help to run 2 local groups and have been involved in setting up other groups in the past. Our local minding committee and NCMA office have come up with a folder that goes to all new groups with great tips that existing groups have found useful. This includes making sure that every week someone is there to welcome and introduce new members.

Most of us that go to these groups are committed, professional minders and very interested in our own and the children's development. However, we do stand around and chat (about minding issues) and some do not interact much with their children, including me! I feel that, especially when a child is not attending nursery and I am providing their education, they need to gain some independence from me and get used to interacting with other adults in readiness for school. A childminding group is the ideal situation to do this as it is safe and secure and I know everyone there (usually). Several of us do this and almost swap mindies for the session, helping each other's children with the activities rather than our own. Some of us also use minding groups to do observations, in fact we always put out some post-it pads and pens for this reason. It is much easier to do an unobserved observation when there are more children and adults about than it is at home where, as soon as I start to write anything I am asked a myriad of questions and all other activity ceases! If you have several under 5s then it is also easier because you know that others are watching the ones that you are not.

This is, however, very different from those minders who arrive, dump the children on the floor/at a table and then promptly ignore them for the whole session, relying on others to do their job for them while they catch up on the latest gossip! This sort of behaviour is quickly noticed and not tolerated, someone has a quiet word with the offender and sometimes they never comes back, but sometimes they just needed that little push in the right direction and end up being great minders.

However, anyone looking on would not necessarily realise the difference between them and me, although I do interact when the children initiate it and these others rarely do, but I am sure that I would be accused of not interacting with 'my' children by an outsider.

So you have to remember that things are not always as they seem to be before making a quick judgement.

David Sheppard
28-10-2009, 08:51 AM
I really agree with you here, I help to run 2 local groups and have been involved in setting up other groups in the past. Our local minding committee and NCMA office have come up with a folder that goes to all new groups with great tips that existing groups have found useful. This includes making sure that every week someone is there to welcome and introduce new members.

Most of us that go to these groups are committed, professional minders and very interested in our own and the children's development. However, we do stand around and chat (about minding issues) and some do not interact much with their children, including me! I feel that, especially when a child is not attending nursery and I am providing their education, they need to gain some independence from me and get used to interacting with other adults in readiness for school. A childminding group is the ideal situation to do this as it is safe and secure and I know everyone there (usually). Several of us do this and almost swap mindies for the session, helping each other's children with the activities rather than our own. Some of us also use minding groups to do observations, in fact we always put out some post-it pads and pens for this reason. It is much easier to do an unobserved observation when there are more children and adults about than it is at home where, as soon as I start to write anything I am asked a myriad of questions and all other activity ceases! If you have several under 5s then it is also easier because you know that others are watching the ones that you are not.

This is, however, very different from those minders who arrive, dump the children on the floor/at a table and then promptly ignore them for the whole session, relying on others to do their job for them while they catch up on the latest gossip! This sort of behaviour is quickly noticed and not tolerated, someone has a quiet word with the offender and sometimes they never comes back, but sometimes they just needed that little push in the right direction and end up being great minders.

However, anyone looking on would not necessarily realise the difference between them and me, although I do interact when the children initiate it and these others rarely do, but I am sure that I would be accused of not interacting with 'my' children by an outsider.

So you have to remember that things are not always as they seem to be before making a quick judgement.

Some really good points here SC thank you.

Our county has also produced a very useful folder of related information to assist with addressing common issues. As with everything though, there is no substitute for the personal touch and the practical knowledge or experience of other childminders.

It is very true to remember that things are not always as they seem. And making quick judgements is something we ALL could learn a lesson from!

I completely agree that promoting an environment where the children are able to flourish, expand their horizons, and benefit from integration with others - is what this is all about. And totally agree that this equally true for the adults?

Regards

DS

P.S. I'll look out for you selling your raffle tickets at the National Conference.

Pipsqueak
28-10-2009, 09:13 AM
oooh I like the idea of folder of info.
I have a resource file that the attending c/m's are welcome to look at.

what sort of things do you have in these files?

directories of useful contacts?
good practice tips?

tell me tell me....:D

David Sheppard
28-10-2009, 11:53 AM
oooh I like the idea of folder of info.
I have a resource file that the attending c/m's are welcome to look at.

what sort of things do you have in these files?

directories of useful contacts?
good practice tips?

tell me tell me....:D

The Hampshire County Council Early Education & Childcare Unit, in collaboration with NCMA have produced a folder with information on:

Support Childminding Services

A section on the group, its rules and aims

A section covering useful information like Inclusion, H&S, Policies, Procedures, DATA PROTECTION! LOL, Marketing, English as a second language etc.

A section on training covering CDP, Diplomas, FD, EYPS, being Reflective, and all things EYFS

A section on guidance from Ofsted covering the SEF, Inspection readiness, use of assistants etc

And finally a section for useful resources like websites, craft banks, emergencies etc

All-in-all an excellent resource that is continually being updated.

Hope this helps,

David

Tired
28-10-2009, 12:12 PM
David, I am in Hampshire too, Havant area. I agree, there are some excellent resources ,and the training and support we get here is excellent.

Slightly off subject, I'm considering moving about 1 mile away, into Portsmouth. Do you think they give such good support?

David Sheppard
28-10-2009, 01:06 PM
David, I am in Hampshire too, Havant area. I agree, there are some excellent resources ,and the training and support we get here is excellent.

Slightly off subject, I'm considering moving about 1 mile away, into Portsmouth. Do you think they give such good support?

Hi,

The City of Portsmouth are a unitary authority aren't they? Try starting a new thread in the Forum and asking for advice - there maybe some Childminder's from the city. Although I did my EYP training at the University, which was fab, I have very little experience of the facilities they offer to their childminders. You are right about Hampshire though, they are excellent. We are really fortunate here.

Thanks for the post.

Madminder
28-10-2009, 11:00 PM
Our county has also produced a very useful folder of related information to assist with addressing common issues. As with everything though, there is no substitute for the personal touch and the practical knowledge or experience of other childminders.


I agree, and it's why our Unitary Authority has a childminding committee made up of working childminders with an NCMA Project Manager sitting in on the meetings and offering admin support. We have around 400 minders within the area and 7 groups, all organised by childminders and each group has at least one representative on the committee so there is good feedback between the groups and the committee, both ways. Once a year several members of each group attend a planning and training meeting, led by NCMA, where we spend the morning discussing various issues relating to groups in general, what help we need, problems we are having etc. This works well as often a problem that one group is experiencing has already been solved by another group who can share the solution. It is at these meetings that the folders were put together, the childminders decided what went in them and the NCMA produced them and they are updated as needed.
In the afternoon each group plans their groups activities for the whole year. We all bring in craft and activity books and NCMA also bring in a resource box full of them too. This also works well as many childminders attend more than one group so we can make sure that we are not duplicating activities, and it means that no one person has to spend time planning activities. We write up a list of the activities and also make up resource lists for each activity so everyone in the group knows who will bring/do what. NCMA type up the lists for us and each group knows what they and all the other groups are doing for the year and it makes it easy to create a flyer for our notice boards too.

The groups I attend do not run in half-term as they are in CCs, but I will try to remember to borrow the folder next week so that I can let you know what is in it Pip, and then if there is something you want to see I can scan it and let you have it as I do not think they are copywrited, but I will check that.

Hope you will be buying lots of tickets at conference David?! LOL

Trouble
28-10-2009, 11:05 PM
no one in my area goes to our group as its run by witches i have to travel miles to go to a nice one

this is my night time group, and i have learnt more and had more support from some people on this forum that all my years working with children, so yes i prefer my night time group:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

hi bye the way love your website:D

Pipsqueak
28-10-2009, 11:06 PM
I agree, and it's why our Unitary Authority has a childminding committee made up of working childminders with an NCMA Project Manager sitting in on the meetings and offering admin support. We have around 400 minders within the area and 7 groups, all organised by childminders and each group has at least one representative on the committee so there is good feedback between the groups and the committee, both ways. Once a year several members of each group attend a planning and training meeting, led by NCMA, where we spend the morning discussing various issues relating to groups in general, what help we need, problems we are having etc. This works well as often a problem that one group is experiencing has already been solved by another group who can share the solution. It is at these meetings that the folders were put together, the childminders decided what went in them and the NCMA produced them and they are updated as needed.
In the afternoon each group plans their groups activities for the whole year. We all bring in craft and activity books and NCMA also bring in a resource box full of them too. This also works well as many childminders attend more than one group so we can make sure that we are not duplicating activities, and it means that no one person has to spend time planning activities. We write up a list of the activities and also make up resource lists for each activity so everyone in the group knows who will bring/do what. NCMA type up the lists for us and each group knows what they and all the other groups are doing for the year and it makes it easy to create a flyer for our notice boards too.

The groups I attend do not run in half-term as they are in CCs, but I will try to remember to borrow the folder next week so that I can let you know what is in it Pip, and then if there is something you want to see I can scan it and let you have it as I do not think they are copywrited, but I will check that.
Hope you will be buying lots of tickets at conference David?! LOL

That would be brilliant thanks Mad:clapping: I would like to talk to my NCMA CDW about it and see if we could perhaps have something similar - even if its a folder with professional ethics, group ethos and rules etc. Might go some way to encouraging some of the less 'unthinking' minders who attend to pull their socks up a bit.

Pipsqueak
28-10-2009, 11:07 PM
no one in my area goes to our group as its run by witches i have to travel miles to go to a nice one

this is my night time group, and i have learnt more and had more support from some people on this forum that all my years working with children, so yes i prefer my night time group:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

hi bye the way love your website:D


excellent halloween activity for your mindees though!!!;) :laughing: :D

Trouble
28-10-2009, 11:08 PM
excellent halloween activity for your mindees though!!!;) :laughing: :D

the kids dont like them either:eek: :eek: :eek:

David Sheppard
29-10-2009, 06:53 AM
.

Hope you will be buying lots of tickets at conference David?! LOL

Lots and lots and lots :laughing:

ajs
29-10-2009, 07:57 AM
There is the same rule at one of our groups re coffee/hot drinks, not our rule, it is the Sure Start Centre's which we accept.

But sometimes being able to have a hot drink while there are other people around to interact with the child is a good thing, for the minder and the child - otherwise you could go all day without a decent drink!!

Ours must be the only profession where you get no tea breaks, no dinner break ........ no breaks full stop! :eek:

Going back to those who use groups - there are over 70 childminders who have access to ours yet it is the same half dozen who attend. The room is fantastic, we have access to all the play equipment, all the craft resources and wonderful outdoor play, all secure, safe and child friendly. We have sent out flyers, had promotions, freebies, speakers, but nothing seems to tempt them to leave home, what more can we do? :huh:

i was going to answer this question but decided for the sake of my membership on this forum not to.

david i whole heartedly applaud your efforts good luck to you.
although i for one wouldn't attend a group that didn't offer me a drink ( tongue in cheek or not) like others have said i go to groups not only for the children but for me too. and if that's my chance to have my only break of the day then that's when i have it. All of the children in my care are very independent and as soon we arrive at groups want to play either with their friends or with new and different toys, i am hovering in the background but only approach them if i think they need me

i do not attend any childminding groups but do have a lot of good friends who are childminders and we get together at least once a week to swap ideas and to have messy craft sessions but i do attend the network meeting that pauline mentioned for advice, but other than that i have my virtual friends here on the forum they offer advice, friendship and support whenever it is needed and not all are virtual, i have made some fantastic and amazing "real " friends from the forum too

David Sheppard
29-10-2009, 08:47 AM
i was going to answer this question but decided for the sake of my membership on this forum not to.

david i whole heartedly applaud your efforts good luck to you.
although i for one wouldn't attend a group that didn't offer me a drink ( tongue in cheek or not) like others have said i go to groups not only for the children but for me too. and if that's my chance to have my only break of the day then that's when i have it. All of the children in my care are very independent and as soon we arrive at groups want to play either with their friends or with new and different toys, i am hovering in the background but only approach them if i think they need me

i do not attend any childminding groups but do have a lot of good friends who are childminders and we get together at least once a week to swap ideas and to have messy craft sessions but i do attend the network meeting that pauline mentioned for advice, but other than that i have my virtual friends here on the forum they offer advice, friendship and support whenever it is needed and not all are virtual, i have made some fantastic and amazing "real " friends from the forum too

Hi,

Okay, I'll come clean - I used a bit of poetic licence here. The truth is that I don't drink tea or coffee, and I do say to all those that attend that there are no hot drinks allowed in the play room and the garden, but these the rules of the Sure-Start centre. There is tea and coffee available in the lounge area at the entrance hall. We DO have a chilled water dispenser in the play room for everyone to use - so we all drink plenty. Just no coffee huddles. :rolleyes:

Hope this straightens things out. And thank you all for your thoughts and contributions they are much appreciated.

Regards

David

manjay
29-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Must say I am getting quite jealous reading all of this:( I live in quite a rural community and there is nothing in the way of support groups. I have recently been given a place on our CCF community network (this has taken 2 years) which now gives me the opportunity to meet with other minders once a month and to have access to the training I am hungry for. Before this I was very much on my own and relied heavily on the help and support from here. I often feel (not on here by the way) that childminders in Wales are treated as second class citizens as we don't have to follow the EYFS, but that is jmho:rolleyes:

However this lack of support has not stopped me from continuing my professional development. I went out there and found my own NVQ coures and once that was done I have embarked on a foundation degree. I also attend the NCMA regional forums and am now on the committee for Wales. I think you have to be the right kind of person to want to do that (have to say I have become that person since I started minding) and unfortunately not everyone is so enthusiastic. I am not for one minute saying that what I am doing is right for everyone but I think my point is that there is only so much you can do for people who really don't want to progress.

Winnie
29-10-2009, 11:47 AM
David, I have run drop-in sessions for childminders which also included –as in welcomed- foster children/parents and even welcomed parents (although I can only remember them coming at celebrations such as Christmas parties). But it was always the same group of childminders, I did my very best to invite & include any childminder but without much success.
I moved area & heard later that the CC had become a little ‘difficult’ such as the childminders needing to clean the room before they could use it & move furniture, also asking the childminding group to vacate the room early to accommodate the overflow of children during group time & complaints about childminders talking to each other too much. The childminders moved out.
Where I am now we (an informal group of childminders) have access to a CC (without childcare) and it works well. The CC manager did put out invites on our behalf to parents and also sent out invites to other childminders in the area- again on our behalf- but no-one turned up.

Head banging & wall come to mind.

Madminder
30-10-2009, 09:08 PM
That would be brilliant thanks Mad:clapping: I would like to talk to my NCMA CDW about it and see if we could perhaps have something similar - even if its a folder with professional ethics, group ethos and rules etc. Might go some way to encouraging some of the less 'unthinking' minders who attend to pull their socks up a bit.

Can't remember everything that is in it Pip, but I am sure there are group rules (put together by minders) and all sorts of other useful stuff, I will try and get it on Thursday to borrow. :idea: If you like it then I could also PM you the name and contact details for our NCMA worker for yours to contact if that would help? They may well know each other as I know that they do have regional and national training for CDWs and other NCMA staff.

Unfortunately, even when one area comes up with a great idea that works, and is willing to share it, it all comes down to funding. :mad: If NCMA/LA workers in other areas do not get enough funding to do the extra work involved then unless the childminders are willing to do it themselves then it doesn't get done!

On the other hand, being an NPF rep means that I get to chat from minders from all over the country and there is one area that has done exactly that. They were not getting what they wanted from thier support workers so they just went and did it themselves! They visit local employers to chat to the workforce about what we can offer, often in pairs with one looking after the children of both minders, this has been so successful that all minders have filled their vacancies and new minders are full as soon as they start! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: I am trying to find out more about this in the hope that I can get something going here.

NCMA have also been looking at ways of making use of the experience and enthusiasm of people who have served their time on regional and local committees and NPF. :jump for joy: One role will be Childminding Champions and they will be promoting childminders and childminding in their area, which will be great - more news on this when I have it.

Are you going to the conference? We could meet up and share ideas!

Pipsqueak
31-10-2009, 09:22 AM
Can't remember everything that is in it Pip, but I am sure there are group rules (put together by minders) and all sorts of other useful stuff, I will try and get it on Thursday to borrow. :idea: If you like it then I could also PM you the name and contact details for our NCMA worker for yours to contact if that would help? They may well know each other as I know that they do have regional and national training for CDWs and other NCMA staff.

Unfortunately, even when one area comes up with a great idea that works, and is willing to share it, it all comes down to funding. :mad: If NCMA/LA workers in other areas do not get enough funding to do the extra work involved then unless the childminders are willing to do it themselves then it doesn't get done!

On the other hand, being an NPF rep means that I get to chat from minders from all over the country and there is one area that has done exactly that. They were not getting what they wanted from thier support workers so they just went and did it themselves! They visit local employers to chat to the workforce about what we can offer, often in pairs with one looking after the children of both minders, this has been so successful that all minders have filled their vacancies and new minders are full as soon as they start! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: I am trying to find out more about this in the hope that I can get something going here.

NCMA have also been looking at ways of making use of the experience and enthusiasm of people who have served their time on regional and local committees and NPF. :jump for joy: One role will be Childminding Champions and they will be promoting childminders and childminding in their area, which will be great - more news on this when I have it.

Are you going to the conference? We could meet up and share ideas!

That sounds all very proactive and something like I have been pushing for.

Sadly I am not going to the conference - few to many pennies for me and I couldn't get funding:(

carol cameron
31-10-2009, 06:18 PM
I have been a member of my local support group for years and I really couldn't do my job without it! It is so good to mix with other childminders and know that you can talk about your work knowing that it is kept confidential. Our group has never provided tea or coffee so that has never been an issue-we take cold drinks with us if we want one.It also gives all of our mindees a chance to mix with children and other childminders which is really helpful as we try to cover each others holidays etc. Every childminder should have access to a group like mine!:clapping:

TheBTeam
31-10-2009, 07:45 PM
I go to a childminder group once a week along with a small group of other childminders, we rent for the commercial amount a room in our childrens centre, they give us no concessions, we do have tea and coffee and much to the annoyance of some of the members we use the lidded cups. All of the childminders present look out in general for all of the children, who for a large number of the weeks do free play activities and occassional craft activities while the adults will sit and chat, we sit in an open shape around the room and will interact with the children as they need/want us to, they have access to us and are very close by at all times. This is the one time of the week when we do not follow behind etc the children and it is good for them to have completely free choice over who they interact with and how. Some lovely friendships have been made when the adults are observing from the sidelines.

I personally need the support and encouragement from the other members who attend, we all bring something about us that is different and we fit like a jigsaw stretching both our strengths and our weaknesses to improve our care and not all of the topics of conversation are childminding related, we do use it for sharing/advice/support etc, but providing the conversation is appropriate to be had with children in ear shot it is not always related to childminding, we are not ignoring the children or doing anything in anyway detrimental to them, and everyone adult and child enjoys the group.

We have childrens centre meetings approx once a term, and yes it is always the same faces, unfortunately as in a lot of things only a small few bother, and they are the ones that know what they want to be doing/are dedicated and committed, and although we all work for the money, go that bit further!!

The apathetic ones are the ones you hear moaning, but doing nothing about it!

miss mopple
01-11-2009, 08:02 AM
Im in Hampshire too and go to regular support sessions/ drop ins at the local childrens centre and also to the NCMA run toy library and drop in that are both run monthly. The childminder session at the centre has a very low attendance though and its always the same few, dare I say it, more professional and hands on minders that go.

I am on a Network as well and attend all training and support meetings I can. Its a great way to meet other minders and the social element is also important as this job can be isolating, and it helps keep me focused and professional. I do it because I enjoy it and above all the children benefit hugely. All of this is provided free which I think is amazing and we are incredibly fortunate here as I know there isnt as much funding in other areas.

It does make me mad that it is always the same handful of people at stuff, but at the end of the day it helps give us an edge over those that cant be bothered and only do the job as its convenient and 'easy' (yeah right!) rather than because of a genuine love for the children (and there are alot like that in my area sadly)

Oh, and coffee is a must for me too- if its not provided I take a flask :laughing:

Madminder
01-11-2009, 12:23 PM
I go to a childminder group once a week along with a small group of other childminders, we rent for the commercial amount a room in our childrens centre, they give us no concessions....


We used to have all our groups in commercially rented places but as the CCs have come into existence we have mostly moved into those. We used to have to pay for them but now we get them free in Kent and Medway. This was down to hard work from the NCMA workers in those areas though. Children's centres get extra funding if they can show that they are supporting childminders so this may be something that you can try in your area. Try and find out if they are already getting the extra funding and if so ask them to show how they are supporting minders, if they can't do this then a gentle reminder that their funding could be cut often works wonders!

We still charge for attendance at the groups (£2 a session) and this money is used to replenish craft materials (if not provided by the CC), subsidise outings in the summer and also to get some outside craft activities in. For instance, one session we had the pottery people come, all the children could choose an unglazed mug (various shapes) to decorate with glazes, either by painting, sponging or with handprints. These were taken away and fired before being returned just in time for Father's Day presents. Normally they cost £6 each but none of us paid a penny as it came out of the subs.

People can choose to pre-pay their subs on a quarterly or annual basis and get a discount for doing this, I find it's great as it also means that I can go even when I have no cash on me! We are also thinkiing that we will offer other benefits to pre-payers, such as guaranteed places on outings and the Christmas party which are usually over-subscribed. We also provide certificates for the childminder and the children whenever a planned activity is done. The children's show the links to EYFS and can be added to learning journeys and the minders add theirs to their portfolios.

We mostly do have tea and coffee, but are very careful with them, as we are in our own homes. Some CCs in the area have restricted hot drinks to the kitchen area which is a real pain as there is only room for two people at a time in a few of the CCs! We understand why these rules are in place, other people use the CC, but really feel that childminders are so used to risk assessing that they need not apply to us but they feel they can make no concessions.

It is the same few minders again here but we have new rules in place for support minders and are hoping that this will increase attendance. All support minders must attend a childminding group at least once a month and take supported new minders with them. We are sure that once the new minders had been they will return on their own, both because they enjoy it and also because it will come across as a good thing to do for them and their children.