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Lainey Lou
11-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Hi all, okay will try to keep this brief. Basically started looking after a 6 mth old 2 days a week, first settling in sessions this week just gone. Mum is a friend of mine who I have known a long time.

Anyway to cut a long story short, Mum hasn't bothered weaning baby off the breast, she tried her with a bottle (probably once!) and baby took it okay but at the slightest whimper she still puts baby to the breast. She knew months ago that she had to start weaning baby off the breast before she came to me, but obviously hasn't made the effort. So, she leaves baby with me last week and the poor little thing just wanted mum, when she was tired, wanted milk etc. She hadn't bothered expressing any milk and brought a tin of formula that baby has never even tried before (and really didn't like it!). She is weaning her on solids so baby did get some food down her luckily!. So when mum picked her up, the baby was ravenous! To make matters worse, my 2 year old gets really frustrated at the crying (obviously this baby takes ages to settle because she hasn't got her usual comforter) and my lo screams and has a right paddy!

I'm getting abit anxious now about next week when she comes again. I told mum she must made an effort to wean her off the breast and MUST bring expressed milk with her, I just have this feeling she won't bother tho!

I've decided that I am going to call her tomorrow and reiterate that she must start to try weaning and also must bring expressed milk, I am also going to say that she will need to pick the baby up earlier until she is weaned off the breast properly during the day and also to bring a dummy (which she doesn't mind baby having). Have any of you had a similar predicament with babies still being on the breast? Sorry to go on and guys, it was the first thing on my mind as soon as I woke up this morning and just wanted to get it off my chest! xx

little chickee
11-10-2009, 01:09 PM
Obviously baby has to be able to take a bottle at your house - I would have suggest to mum that baby should have expressed milk in a bottle (or Cup) during the hours when she will be with you but could still breastfeed first thing in the morning and after she goes home.

If mum is struggling to stop breastfeeding this would be a good workable solution.

I have done this with 1 of my sons and he would breast feed, take a bottle of breastmilk or formula no bother. although i do know that not all babies will be this flexible its worth a go.

ORKSIE
11-10-2009, 01:11 PM
Oh Bless ya.
I had a baby that was still being B fed, Mum expressed the milk and all was fine.
I would ring her like you have said.
Cant really give any advise cos not had this problem.
Hope you get it sorted:)

sarah707
11-10-2009, 01:13 PM
We need to come up with ways to support breast feeding mothers.

If the mum wants to breastfeed then we need to come up with other ways of comforting the baby so that s/he is ok while with us and so that we are seen to be supporting mum's wishes.

that might mean mum committing to providing breast milk and one of those special bottles that is shaped like a breast so baby can use that.

Or perhaps giving baby some water to sip as well as breast milk so that the baby can have a drink out of a cup or bottle while with us.

You might also try asking mum to send something that smells of her or her milk to comfort baby during the day.

Does baby use a dummy? when given at a time when comfort is needed they can work really well... just obviously not overused because of dental and communication implications.

There is some good advice here that mum might read if you give her the link -

http://www.e-voice.org.uk/kcma/preparing-your-child/


I hope this helps you to feel a little more positive about next weeks settling in. :D

Zoomie
11-10-2009, 01:15 PM
As a mum of three breastfed children, two of whom went to childcare whilst I still breast fed, I find your post rather unwelcoming. I am not saying this to have a go, but I feel you should try and work with mum.

Personally I found it really difficult as a mum to wean my babies. It is so difficult as baby smells milk on mum. Why should baby take a bottle from mum in this kind of circumstance ?

Also at 6 months, it may be quite difficult to get sufficient milk expressed for a days feed ... especially when you are feeding baby at the same time. I know I got really stressed trying to express sufficient. Both my children went to childcare at 3m, and I expressed for a further 6m with DS1 but only 3m with DS2.

I do agree that that giving formula milk, 'untested' isn't best and would ask that perhaps mum could stop in for a feed mid way through the day ?

Also, if baby won't take a bottle, a bit of milk on a spoon is not the end of the world (time consuming but effective nevertheless). A sippy cup at this stage can also easily be introduced, though I do recall my DD taking a long while before she drank anything substantial out of her sippy cup.

Sorry, my post isn't as helpful as I would like it to be ... perhaps someone else will be along who can suggest other ways to work with mum.

Good luck, and lots of patience next week :)

youarewhatyoueat
11-10-2009, 02:54 PM
Sarah and Zoomie speak a lot of sense and perhaps mum would appreciate more helpful support as that is something childminders could do so much better than a nursery.

venus89
11-10-2009, 03:10 PM
Sarah and Zoomie speak a lot of sense and perhaps mum would appreciate more helpful support as that is something childminders could do so much better than a nursery.

I think that's a bit harsh.

I can see both sides of the argument and think you all have valid points. I can see that as a breastfeeding Mum (I struggled to breastfeed with both my kids and switched to bottles when I had mastitis as I couldn't bear it any more) to wean your child onto formula must be very hard. I used to express for my children so they were getting the breastmilk I tried so hard to give them myself and tbh it was agony - my nipples wer always bleeding by the end of expressing the milk, then they'd get dry and crack. Very unpleasant. So I can see that expressing has its downfalls as well, although it seems that if this mum expresses rather than sending in formula it may well help baby settle at Lainey Lous

Lainey - I don't think putting down ultimatums will be all that helpful. Perhaps explaining to her, as you have to us, how the chilld is upset (and your child too). I don't think you're in a position to tell her that she must do anything, but you are in a position to suggest ideas - 'why not bring some expressed milk?' because she may not even have thought of it. I think our job as childminders is to support the parents. I find they tend to see me as an expert in all things child related - which I'm obviously not - and suggesting things in a calm way can make the world of difference. Could you do a bit of research or put her in touch with a breastfeeding cousellor to help her wean the baby onto a bottle?

Helen79
11-10-2009, 03:40 PM
I bf both my babies but couldn't express a drop so I would have been unable to provide breastmilk for a childminder & would have been very upset at being told I had to bring it in as it was impossible for me.

I don't think you can demand that she brings in expressed milk as it may not be easy for her.

I wouldn't expect a bf mum to wean her baby off the breast since she is still with mum 5 days a week. Why should she stop bf just because she is with you 2 days a week. she may wish to bf the baby for years.

As a mum I would be very upset if my cm was demanding that I change my parenting at home just to suit her. Could you find some info online to support her bf & introducing a bottle aswell?

How many hours is the baby with you? Could you try feeding her milk from a spoon or a cup instead of a bottle?
If she's totally refusing the bottle but happy with solids, you could mix a small amount of baby rice with her formula & spoon feed it to her.
Ask mum for an item of her clothing so baby can snuggle into that while you try the bottle.

The 5month old baby I have been looking after for a month had never taken a bottle either or drank formula, mum still bf at home, it took maybe a week for baby to happily drink from a bottle. I found feeding her on her side (in the bf position) really helped.

From your other post it sounds as if this mum is struggling with leaving her lo, having to give formula milk when you're bf can be so hard for a mum to do aswell so adding extra pressure on her with this may not be helpful.

PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER
11-10-2009, 03:52 PM
As a mother of a nearly 1yr old who is currently trying to wean her baby of the breast, it is very very hard and im finding it quite distressing for both myself and my ds.

I do fine your views quite harsh but that is my personal opinion. If i as a mother was given the ultimatum you are planning to give this mum i wouldnt react very well at all and would make leaving my child a whole lot harder.

Lots of bf mums including myself cannot express, I just dont letdown for a pump so simply pumping may not be an option for her.

Tomme Tippee bottle (close to nature) are fantastic as they are shaped like the nipple. Also ask for something that smells of mum that she can snuggle into when feeding.

Please remember this is probably a very traumatic time for both baby and mum, Baby is no longer getting her special cuddles and mum is probably in alot of pain whilst her body is adapting the the reduced feeding.

Goodluck

LeeAnn
11-10-2009, 04:05 PM
I went through something similar twice with LOs I minded for the first time I childminded.

The first one was a LO who was only 8 weeks old. To start with I only had her from 9 - 2. She was stil breast fed and wouldnt take a bottle. I used to spoon feed her with formula that Mum gave me, I couldnt get it in her any other way . Mum used to feed her immediately when she came to pick her up as she was starving, it was nice actually because I made mum a cup of tea and we would sit and chat for a bit. But I only had this one LO and then her older sister when mum went full time. My own son was 4 and was at nursery in the afternoons. so I had the time to spend doing it. And Mum only used the breastfeeding for food not for comfort.

the 2nd time LO was almost 6 months. Mum used breastfeeding to comfort and she fed him to sleep. I had him 4 days a week from 8.45 - 5.45pm so it was quite tough. The good thing was that she could express milk and she would put in a bottle for him and a cup. I also used to mix loads of the breast milk in with his solid food so I knew I was getting it in to him. That was what I found most successful in getting the milk into him as he didn't like the cup much at all and used to gag on it quite a lot. It did make it hard to get him to sleep though and to comfort him as he was very attached to his usual form of comfort.

I hope you can find a solution as breastmilk/formula should still be baby's main food source at 6 months. Maybe mum could bring a bottle with her or try a sippy cup? There is also a little beak cup that is good for getting milk into breast fed babies without confusing them with teats etc.

I hope next week is easier for you xx

madasahatter
11-10-2009, 04:11 PM
The BF mum may need to know that (as far as I know and I'm pretty certain) her employer has a duty to support her choice to breastfeed. They should provide an area where she can express in privacy (not a toilet) and facilities for storing the breastmilk (fridge).
Many years ago I took on a baby at 4 months who's mother had not managed to get her onto a bottle. She was however successfully expressing. At each feed I would offer the bottle and if it was refused I use a small medicine syringe to feed her. It took ages, with the bottle sat in a jug of warm water to stop it going cold. After about a week she started taking small amounts from the bottle, so whilst it is frustrating to have a baby who won't feed, things do change and get better.
I would ask mum how she feels, is it difficult for her? could you do anything? I would go down the lines of offering suggestions, maybe put her in touch with a breastfeeding counsellor (I think most doctors/health visitors have access to this type of service). If she does just want to make a clean break from breastfeeding to formula it should only take a few days for baby to adjust, but it will be a shock for the baby too.

Pipsqueak
11-10-2009, 04:23 PM
Hi all, okay will try to keep this brief. Basically started looking after a 6 mth old 2 days a week, first settling in sessions this week just gone. Mum is a friend of mine who I have known a long time.

Anyway to cut a long story short, Mum hasn't bothered weaning baby off the breast, she tried her with a bottle (probably once!) and baby took it okay but at the slightest whimper she still puts baby to the breast. She knew months ago that she had to start weaning baby off the breast before she came to me, but obviously hasn't made the effort. So, she leaves baby with me last week and the poor little thing just wanted mum, when she was tired, wanted milk etc. She hadn't bothered expressing any milk and brought a tin of formula that baby has never even tried before (and really didn't like it!). She is weaning her on solids so baby did get some food down her luckily!. So when mum picked her up, the baby was ravenous! To make matters worse, my 2 year old gets really frustrated at the crying (obviously this baby takes ages to settle because she hasn't got her usual comforter) and my lo screams and has a right paddy!

I'm getting abit anxious now about next week when she comes again. I told mum she must made an effort to wean her off the breast and MUST bring expressed milk with her, I just have this feeling she won't bother tho!

I've decided that I am going to call her tomorrow and reiterate that she must start to try weaning and also must bring expressed milk, I am also going to say that she will need to pick the baby up earlier until she is weaned off the breast properly during the day and also to bring a dummy (which she doesn't mind baby having). Have any of you had a similar predicament with babies still being on the breast? Sorry to go on and guys, it was the first thing on my mind as soon as I woke up this morning and just wanted to get it off my chest! xx

You have had some briliant advice already and lots to digest (excuse the pun!!) and hopefully it will help you with the situation (and subsequently mum and baby).

I think perhaps given your (childminding) inexperience and your own anxiety about the baby/feeding you may have expressed yourself little wrong in your post - and that is only natural. I do not think you have intended to come across as being harsh to the parent or within your post. xxx

Lainey Lou
11-10-2009, 04:40 PM
really sorry guys, feel really bad now. I really didn't mean to offend anyone and my email was probably abit rushed etc and I didn't think it through really what I was writing. I suppose because she is a mate and I have know her a long time, I know how chaotic she can be at times and she can express milk but didn't do it for me! I will take your advice on board, I'm not as bossy and demanding as I sound in my email, I'm a big softy and will help and support others as much as I can. Once again sorry if I offended anyone, I really like this forum and don't want to rub you guys up the wrong way! XX

PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER
11-10-2009, 04:53 PM
really sorry guys, feel really bad now. I really didn't mean to offend anyone and my email was probably abit rushed etc and I didn't think it through really what I was writing. I suppose because she is a mate and I have know her a long time, I know how chaotic she can be at times and she can express milk but didn't do it for me! I will take your advice on board, I'm not as bossy and demanding as I sound in my email, I'm a big softy and will help and support others as much as I can. Once again sorry if I offended anyone, I really like this forum and don't want to rub you guys up the wrong way! XX

dont worry lou you havent offended anyone, Im very precious about breastfeeding and have been put down many times due to the fact i wanted to continue feeding after 6 months.

Hopefully this advice will help u and ease the transition for all involved. And again dont worry u havent offended

big hugs

miffy
11-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Hope your chat with mum goes OK and she brings you some expressed milk tomorrow so baby gets her feed and will hopefully be a lot more settled :)

Miffy xx

Helen79
11-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Don't worry, you've not offended anyone. I think bf can me an emotive subject for many mums.

Does the mum want to give up bf totally? If not then it's unfair to ask her to wean baby. She probably won't want to give bottles at home due to wanting to bf as much as possible when her baby is still with her.
Also many baby's don't take a bottle from mum as they can smell the breastmilk so refuse a bottle for mum.
Even though she can express it still might be hard for her to do. Especially if she's not bfing 2 days of the week, her supply will be all over the place.

I doubt it's because she just can't be bothered, she's just returned to work & has a young baby to look after, she's probably too knackered to! She may be feeling stressed & this can affect your milk supply so she's maybe tried but not been successful, but may not want to admit it as it can make you feel like a failure.

These websites have really good information about supplementing bf baby's feeds with bottles.

http://www.kellymom.com/
www.laleche.org.uk

aly
11-10-2009, 05:54 PM
I breastfed Poppy til she was 1 month off being 2!!

I found I could not express anything more than 1 oz from a manual..but I bought an electric one....if she has problems of that sort maybe suggest an electric one.

Like others have said assuming and telling her she should will probably upset her.

She shouldnt have just brought in the formula without testing it that was wrong.

Please speak to her.

Lainey Lou
11-10-2009, 06:39 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for all your postings and your advice has been taken on board, once again sorry if I offended and please don't 'judge' me on my posting (just read it back ... yikes is is abit harsh!), I'm quite nice really!!

I have spoken to mum, we are mates (altho I don't sound like a good one at the moment! oopps), mum does want to start weaning during the day but wants to carry on giving baby breast in the evening and morning if possible. The baby can take the bottle and mum can express her milk (but don't think she has done it that often, she does want to express so the baby can have her milk during the day if possible, so we will see how it all goes with that and hopefully she won't have any problems). She said the other day 'sorry not expressed you know what I'm like so disorganised but I will next time'. I will support her however it turns out, whether she decides she doesn't want to stop bf during the day or not. I wouldn't expect her to give up bf just because she was coming to me for 2 days a week, mum has made this choice to try to wean her off during the day. Also even though it sounds in my posting that I am really demanding, I would never give ultimatums (even though thats what it sounds like), crikey I'm too soft for that!

Hope this makes things abit clearer, my fault, rushing a posting and not reading it back!

Thanks for all your advice and I will let you know how it goes :) xx

miffy
11-10-2009, 06:44 PM
Fingers crossed you have a better day tomorrow :)

Miffy xx

uf353432
11-10-2009, 06:46 PM
Its quite common for babies to reverse cycle on the days they are in childcare, if they won't take milk - as long as you can get some water in them - then they will simply take more milk in the night. Don't mistake baby feeding from mummy on her return as being a sign of being ravenous though - yes I dare say she will be hungry - but she will be also desperate for her source of comfort as well - so it will be a mixture of both.

Also don't be surprised if mum did try to offer a bottle more times. The problem of course is mum is not supposed to feed with a bottle in babies eyes - because she feeds with boobies - where in the main most people other than mum are more successful at introducing a bottle.

Baby doesn't have to take from a bottle, you can try a cup - open or sippy, you can try a spoon, syringe, you can give icecubes, milk pops, you can even give them a cold wet cloth to suck on - which if they are teething can also give relief as well. If the bottle is the chosen route - then try and choose a teat that is a similar size to mums nipples, soft as appose to hard and a shape not dissimilar to mums nipple when it leave bubs mouth (some babies squeeze nipple so its flatter, some nipples come out rounded) another thing to try is to warm the teat slightly before offering - in hot water (not too long) this will soften and warm the teat because after all mums nipple is not cold and hard.

You can try a number of holds when feeding, mimic the bf hold, or have baby's back leaning against your chest and feed essentially with no face contact. You could try a rugby ball hold and give lots of eye contact and singing to sooth.

If offering a dummy you could also try warming that we well to introduce.

Suggest to mum if she can express some milk for you in the early weeks to encourage baby to take a bottle and then change to formula if the expressing is too much.

If you want any more support please feel free to PM me. I am a BF mother still, and trained as a support helper for bf mothers in the local and wider community.

There is quite alot of anxiety attached to leaving your child when you are still BF. Most women have strong roots in their childs 'eating' so please try not to presume that your friend is being slapdash - I have rarely seen a bf mother who doesn't struggle with this transition emotionally or physically. I rather suspect that she would struggle to get through the day without expressing the missed feeds and if she does - that feed on collecting the baby will be a massive relief for her as well as I expect she will be quite engorged. The baby also will smell that milk immediately and demand it.

At 6 months though baby is probably only missing 1 or 2 feeds - which they can more than make up with the collection of baby feed and through the night.

Hang in there - I know its not easy listening to babies crying and the effect it has on your son as well - but its not going to be something that will be solved overnight - it will take a bit of time and its a massive transition for your son as well.


OOOOH and I forgot to say - at 6 mths you could try swaddling baby for sleeptimes - especially in a blanket from home - or one mum has cuddled the night before. swaddling is massively comforting. You could also try swaddling for feeds - this may help as well.

aly
11-10-2009, 07:02 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for all your postings and your advice has been taken on board, once again sorry if I offended and please don't 'judge' me on my posting (just read it back ... yikes is is abit harsh!), I'm quite nice really!!

I have spoken to mum, we are mates (altho I don't sound like a good one at the moment! oopps), mum does want to start weaning during the day but wants to carry on giving baby breast in the evening and morning if possible. The baby can take the bottle and mum can express her milk (but don't think she has done it that often, she does want to express so the baby can have her milk during the day if possible, so we will see how it all goes with that and hopefully she won't have any problems). She said the other day 'sorry not expressed you know what I'm like so disorganised but I will next time'. I will support her however it turns out, whether she decides she doesn't want to stop bf during the day or not. I wouldn't expect her to give up bf just because she was coming to me for 2 days a week, mum has made this choice to try to wean her off during the day. Also even though it sounds in my posting that I am really demanding, I would never give ultimatums (even though thats what it sounds like), crikey I'm too soft for that!

Hope this makes things abit clearer, my fault, rushing a posting and not reading it back!

Thanks for all your advice and I will let you know how it goes :) xx

there is no reason why cant carry on at the breast in evernings etc.
She really needs to keep up a srot of routine though not to confuse baby...if she wants to do cetain amount of days bf'ing baby and then bottle on alternatives but she needs to be hard wiht herself too.....The main reason I fed poppy til she was nearly 2 was my own needs rather than poppy...she was hard to wean off but i didnt make it any easier by giving in without a fight.:blush:

nannymcflea
11-10-2009, 07:59 PM
I can totally understand why mum wants to carry on BF,it's the most wonderful way to bond with your baby,you feel it's something only YOU can do,it's a very emotional and personal way to feed a baby.

Perhaps mum is emotionally worried about someone else feeding her baby,she just doesn't want to give it up but HAVING to go back to work means she feels she is losing that bond and it is being given to someone else.

I'm sure you can find a solution between you,talk things through,letting her know you can understand her fears and feelings and get some ideas on how best to help mum and baby to carry on BF,which is something they both want to do.

No easy answer,good luck.

rachelle
11-10-2009, 10:12 PM
when my baby started at 5 months his mum had been dropping 1 breastfeed a week, with the morning and evening ones the last to be dropped (not sure if he still had these after starting tbh) It worked well for her and for him - might be a suggestion?

mandy moo
12-10-2009, 09:28 AM
My little mindee had just just turned 7 mths when he started with me, he has never had a milk feed during the day since hes been here!!!!! back then he was with me 5 days a week, 8 hours aday!!!!!