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Pipsqueak
16-09-2009, 06:30 PM
In response to your enquiry, the Rising 5 condition does still apply during weekends, school holidays and closures.

The Rising 5 condition states that 'they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult: child ratio'. You do not have to count them as over the age of 5 but you may in order to meet ratio requirements, providing that you stay within your maximum numbers at all times.

With regards to Rising 5's, The Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) statutory framework states (in relation to Childminders only):

"where four and five year old children attend the setting before and or after a normal school day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio".

Providers may request the rising fives condition be added to their certificate for clarity but it is not a requirement to do so. Rising fives is part of the Early Years Foundation Stage requirements and all childminders are able to offer places for rising fives without having the condition on their certificate, providing the maximum number is not exceeded.

The ratios on your certificate are for the maximum number of children at any one time.



This is the emailed confirmation from Ofsted dated 14 and 15th September 09

sarah707
16-09-2009, 06:50 PM
Pip has asked me to stick this thread for a while so everyone has a chance to read and digest the contents.

It has taken her a few days and a lot of hair pulling to get this information... thank you Pip! :clapping:

So to clarify...

Once the children are in full time, 10 sessions a week school they are 5 for the purposes of your ratios...

They are 5 ALL the time, in term time, in holidays, at weekends, on inset days...

This refers to your own children as well as minded children.

They are not 5 when they are settling in or on half days... they must be full time, 10 sessions a week!!

You can have your certificate changed if you like but you don't need to bother. :D

charliegee
17-09-2009, 02:16 PM
thanks Pipsqueak and Sarah for this

I too emailed Ofsted to ask for clarification and was told the same...put my mind fully at rest.

hope this clears up some worries

thanks again - you're stars!

x

Winnie
17-09-2009, 08:35 PM
isnt it a shame that Ofsted can write things as clearly and simply as Sarah?? thank you Sarah :) and pipsqueak

miffy
17-09-2009, 09:22 PM
Thanks Pip and Sarah - lets hope Offie don't change their minds again!!!

Miffy xx

christine e
18-09-2009, 07:50 AM
Thanks Pip and Sarah - lets hope Offie don't change their minds again!!!

Miffy xx

What's The Off Licence shop got to do with this then Miffy?
Ooops I'm showing my age here!

Ha Ha:laughing:

Cx

helenlc
18-09-2009, 12:57 PM
Thanks for that both of you. Me and some CM friends have been discussing this all week and I was going to call Ofsted myself.

georgie456
18-09-2009, 09:29 PM
What a coincidence I spotted this today!

Ofsted rang me regarding this as I was asking because DD is in reception now.

The guy on the phone said he had no idea what happened in the holidays regarding rising 5's and that he had never been asked that question before!

Thankfully I just got my answer here!!!

The Juggler
20-09-2009, 08:24 AM
What a coincidence I spotted this today!

Ofsted rang me regarding this as I was asking because DD is in reception now.

The guy on the phone said he had no idea what happened in the holidays regarding rising 5's and that he had never been asked that question before!

Thankfully I just got my answer here!!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: ofsted, efficient as ever!

mum22
29-09-2009, 12:16 PM
I just spoke to Ofsted as my ds in now in school 10 sessions per week, and I thought he would therefore free up a place for another under 5, but I was told this was not the case and he would be classed as under 5 until next year, I am so confused. I have 2 other under 5's - 1 my dd and 1 mindee per day inaddition to my ds who is now at school?:panic:

LittleMissSparkles
29-09-2009, 12:21 PM
:thumbsup: thanks Pip and Sarah x

sarah707
29-09-2009, 12:36 PM
I just spoke to Ofsted as my ds in now in school 10 sessions per week, and I thought he would therefore free up a place for another under 5, but I was told this was not the case and he would be classed as under 5 until next year, I am so confused. I have 2 other under 5's - 1 my dd and 1 mindee per day in addition to my ds who is now at school?:panic:

Once a child is in 10 sessions a week school they are classed as 5.

It would be nice if all employees read all the memos! :rolleyes:

It might help if you email your situation to them.

enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk :D

mum22
29-09-2009, 06:49 PM
Once a child is in 10 sessions a week school they are classed as 5.

It would be nice if all employees read all the memos! :rolleyes:

It might help if you email your situation to them.

enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk :D

Just done it, thank you:thumbsup:

daisyboo1980
12-10-2009, 08:10 PM
shame its not the same in northern ireland i have a 4 yr old in P1 i have before school and after school and social service wont class him as a 5 yr old so im losing out on a full time place

little_gems
20-10-2009, 05:30 PM
well just to confuse things ofsted have said that:

when a child is 4 or 5 but at full time school (10 sessions) they can be classed as an over 5. All the time e,g school holidays

But my own child who is 4 but in full time school goes back to being an under 5 during school holidays and at weekends.

So i can only fill her space during term time.angry :angry: i think this is very wrong have spoken to quite a few childminders regarding this and they have also been givin this information.

mummyroysof3
20-10-2009, 06:46 PM
i hope not, i was hoping when jack goes full time in jan(not 5 till may) i could advertise his place but couldnt offer the holidays, is that right?

charlotte x

little_gems
20-10-2009, 07:59 PM
thats the understand that ive got.

Pipsqueak
20-10-2009, 08:26 PM
well just to confuse things ofsted have said that:

when a child is 4 or 5 but at full time school (10 sessions) they can be classed as an over 5. All the time e,g school holidays

But my own child who is 4 but in full time school goes back to being an under 5 during school holidays and at weekends.

So i can only fill her space during term time.angry :angry: i think this is very wrong have spoken to quite a few childminders regarding this and they have also been givin this information.

Hmmmm - anyone going to email Ofsted and get clarification of this.
Personally I think its wrong information (and just wrong in general if its accurate info)

Chell
09-12-2009, 10:25 AM
Pip has asked me to stick this thread for a while so everyone has a chance to read and digest the contents.

It has taken her a few days and a lot of hair pulling to get this information... thank you Pip! :clapping:

So to clarify...

Once the children are in full time, 10 sessions a week school they are 5 for the purposes of your ratios...

They are 5 ALL the time, in term time, in holidays, at weekends, on inset days...

This refers to your own children as well as minded children.

They are not 5 when they are settling in or on half days... they must be full time, 10 sessions a week!!

You can have your certificate changed if you like but you don't need to bother. :D

Thanks Sarah, I came on to ask about my daughter but I think this answers my question. She will be five in January but in full time school. So she doesn't count as an over 5, is that right?

Pipsqueak
09-12-2009, 11:53 AM
Thanks Sarah, I came on to ask about my daughter but I think this answers my question. She will be five in January but in full time school. So she doesn't count as an over 5, is that right?

If she is in full time school then yes she will/can be classed as 5 for the purpose of ratio:thumbsup:

little_gems
16-12-2009, 09:53 PM
i have rang oftsed again to ask for my numbers to be changed I'm currently registered for 1 in the eyfs as i have a a 4 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. and once again have been told that this won't happen till the 31st aug after my daughters 5 birthday. Even though she is in full time school.

Denise D
18-12-2009, 08:50 PM
I just wanted to share my experience with this topic. I requested a variation of my registration so that I could be allowed another under-five as my daughter falls in to the rising-five category.

I already have this condition on my registration: "When caring for 4 or 5-year-old children who are in full time education, may increase the number of children in the early years age group by the number of children who are in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded."

Ofsted phoned me in response to my variation request saying that I don't need a variation. Ofsted will not change the number on my registration until the September after my daughter's fifth birthday, however, I AM allowed to take on another under-five as my daughter meets the requirements of the rising five condition, even though our own children are not included in the numbers given on our registration certificates.

So, to sum up, our own rising-five children can be considered as over-fives as long as we have that rising-five condition on our registrations. I hope this helps! ;)

beccas
18-12-2009, 09:06 PM
i also found this out when ringing ofsted about my daughter...

Mrs Book
11-01-2010, 08:40 PM
It is hard to understand.

My certificate says

2 under 5's
2 over 5'

But when I rang and asked as I have 2 children 6 & 4 both in fulltime school, I was told I wasn't allowed and extra under 5 as my 4yr old untill April counted int my under 5 numbers.

All confusing.

sarah707
11-01-2010, 09:17 PM
It is hard to understand.

My certificate says

2 under 5's
2 over 5'

But when I rang and asked as I have 2 children 6 & 4 both in fulltime school, I was told I wasn't allowed and extra under 5 as my 4yr old untill April counted int my under 5 numbers.

All confusing.

It's a total joke that's why Pips went to the trouble of getting it in writing.

The guys on the phone lines often get it wrong I'm afraid.

The best way might be to put it in writing and ask for a written reply - because you are right!

Hth :D

TheBTeam
11-01-2010, 09:48 PM
OFSTED seem to trouble with the concept of your own child being a rising 5, they allow mindees to be in school and count for number purposes as over 5, but when it comes to your own 4 year old at school they wont give you the extra number under 5 until they actually turn 5, and dont seem to want them to count as a rising 5 because as you say your own children are not mentioned on your certificate!

Karaza
07-04-2010, 07:58 AM
Ofsted don't even understand their own criteria I have spoke to them 3 times and been told differently every time. I will email them again soon as want it in writing as they can't go back on written confirmation as easily. :rolleyes:

Leanne59
07-04-2010, 08:13 AM
Many thanks sarah and pip, things are much clearer now

christine e
08-04-2010, 09:09 AM
Have a look at this Ofsted factsheet - go down to Chioldren aged 4 & 5 in full time school - it clearly states that you need to have a condition on your certificate.

Mouse
12-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Have a look at this Ofsted factsheet - go down to Chioldren aged 4 & 5 in full time school - it clearly states that you need to have a condition on your certificate.

And today I've been told you don't need it on your certificate! I was told it's clearly stated in the EYFS literature about 4 & 5yr olds, so the condition isn't necessary :rolleyes:

ourmadhouse
31-08-2010, 02:28 PM
im now waiting for ofsted to call me back they got very confused about my own 4 year old being a rising 5 :panic:
I was told they ' will get someone from the office to call me back' :huh:

glitzygal
28-11-2010, 11:07 PM
Funny, i have just had it changed on my certificate, i dont have any younger children of my own, but i was told by MR OFFIE, that it has to be on your certificate,
is this correct,

i do have it, but i am worried some of us dont have it on our certificates.,

why cant sarah n pipsqueak run ofsted :thumbsup:

catminder
19-06-2011, 01:00 PM
I have a mindee who starts full time school in September. Does anyone know if we have had any clarification of the 'rising 5' situation?
I was wondering if we had to apply for a variation on our certificates or is a 4 year old in full time education 'automatically' classed as a 5 year old?
Thanks

Alison X

christine e
19-06-2011, 01:17 PM
I have a mindee who starts full time school in September. Does anyone know if we have had any clarification of the 'rising 5' situation?
I was wondering if we had to apply for a variation on our certificates or is a 4 year old in full time education 'automatically' classed as a 5 year old?
Thanks

Alison X

You need to get in touch with Ofsted and get the following added to your certificate

WHEN CARING FOR 4 OR 5 YEAR OLD CHILDREN WHO ARE IN FULL TIME EDUCATION, MAY INCREASE THE NUMBER IN THE EARLY YEARS AGE GROUP BY THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN IN FULL TIME EDUCATION, PROVIDING THE MAXIMUM NUMBER IS NOT EXCEEDED (EARLY YEARS REGISTER)

There was some confusion when Ofsted were saying that you could just increase your numbers automatically (this is quite an old thread now) but then Ofsted changed their minds and said we need this wording included - so if you don't have this wording already then you need to give them a call

catminder
19-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Many thanks for that Christine, I'll give them a ring :)

Alison X

sarah707
21-06-2011, 08:34 PM
This thread has been replaced here :D

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=84071