What do we reckon?

[Pipsqueak]

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/lifestyle-8/work-study-childcare-44/326100-childcare-banned-ofsted.html

[Blaze]

Ummm - I believe that as they jobshare this is the perfect solution in the parent's eyes...as a childcare professional - I can see 2 kids sat in front of the TV all day & not being as stimulated as they would be in a childcare setting - however - how many kids do this with certain stay at home Mum's???& how many kids would be better off with Mum then in childcare?I wouldn't class "work" as a reward though! ...I'm on the fence :D

[Kelly]

I hate to say, but I think it is ridiculous, I know you cannot look after another child for reward, but these parents are close friends they trust each other with their children and should be able to leave their kids with a close friend if they like. Both mums are working, so they cannot be talking of that many hours.

[Hebs]

have replied :thumbsup:

[Blaze]

Been thinking - if OFSTED had interferred with me purely as a parent - I would be livid!!! Having said that I do get the theory that the system is to safeguard children....definately on the fence!:laughing:

[Pipsqueak]

I must admit that I am on the fence about this too, even perhaps veering towards it being daft- I think there has got to be some common sense applied in various cases

[Pipsqueak]

have replied :thumbsup:

are you ready to be shot down in flames???? lol

[littletreasures]

I'm sitting on the fence on this too.

My friend and I used to "swap" children. One day I would have hers so she could get shopping, ironing etc done and then she would have mine. I know we weren't going out to work, but we were still caring for each others child.

[Blaze]

Same Pip (& well put Hebs - on the thread on netmums)...in this particular instance it doesn't make sense - but can see that if OFSTED allowed it - it could be used as a loophole to bypass the system & children could be put seriously at risk - & OFSTED I don't think would cope with an evaluation system in place for parent's in this type of senario - I think if I was the parents i would have registered!

[Hebs]

if they allow one, they have to allow them all, and the implications of that are very worrying :panic:

[Hebs]

I'm sitting on the fence on this too.

My friend and I used to "swap" children. One day I would have hers so she could get shopping, ironing etc done and then she would have mine. I know we weren't going out to work, but we were still caring for each others child.

yes but isn't that the difference??

one is babysitting, the other is providing childcare??

[Pipsqueak]

from a professional viewpoint I totally agree with you Heather and also if they were caring for other children as well and (possibly) receiving reward for it -absolutely 100% it shouldn't happen. i won't argue with you on the insurance, crb etc either. and i would back you up on that all the way (when the vultures come out to eat you over there!!! lol)

but I have occasionally looked after my friends kids in a parental capacity and the mum bless her has given me a box of chocs or flowers once in a while (twice actually) and they gave Brian some beer (although I am not sure why as he done nothing but huggle the baby lol).

[flora]

This echos a case that was in the news years ago.......

two friends who had know each other since childhood, worked opposite shift and had kids of almost identical ages.

They looked after others kids and I have to in THIS instance I see nothing wrong with it and have done similar things myself over the years.

I can see people using it as loophole, but why do ofsted have the right to interfere if I make arrangements that I am happy with.

I appreciate all the safeguarding aspects etc etc but sometimes as a mum we do occaisionally know best???? Or do we???

[Mollymop]

It's all gone crazy!!! I have parent who takes their neighnours/friends child to school for them "as a helping hand" , her friend returns the favour by caring for my mindee when I am on in holiday. What is wrong with this??? It is the same as two friends looking after each others child when they are working??????

As for Ofsted looking out for the children and closing all loop whole to abuse, I understand this, but this is a parental choice...curely a parent, like me and you, know whom we trust better than ofsted!!

makes me cross!

[littletreasures]

yes but isn't that the difference??

one is babysitting, the other is providing childcare??

Or is it?? Because they could argue that I was "paying" her for looking after my child by looking after hers??

From a professional point of view now I am a childminder, I think you put our point of view across very well.

[Hebs]

i have to say i have never had friends look after my kids :panic: i hate to put on to them :blush:

my mum has looked after my kids when i've had to work late nights and weekends and couldn't find childcare but my kids did go to an out of school club for the majority of it :)

[youarewhatyoueat]

Sounds like a perfect situation

[flora]

]i have to say i have never had friends look after my kids :panic: i hate to put on to them :blush[/COLOR]:

my mum has looked after my kids when i've had to work late nights and weekends and couldn't find childcare but my kids did go to an out of school club for the majority of it :)

And that your perogative hebs, but say you did have a best friend who you knew well and had known for years, wouldn't you want the OPTION of leavin g the kids with them and swapping childcare as needed,

or possible haveing to use the services of a stranger albeit a reg'd an insured one??

I know which I would do if I was in that position. ;)

[little chickee]

My friend sometimes drops her child at my house before school as she and her husband sometimes have to be at work early - the child then goes to school on the school bus with my kids - i do this as a favour and do not receive any money for this. I also sometimes look after another friends kids after school for a few hours - again as a favour - i do not go over my numbers - does this mean that we cannot look after our friends or family members kids?

what if i was not a childminder - can my friends and i not look after each others kids in our own homes when we have appointments or nights out?
I do understand why this could be a issue but surely there must be thousands of people doing this for their friends

[Mouse]

I think that's absolute madness!

Friends have always looked after friend's children. I can see that children have to be safeguarded, but is a friend having a CRB check & insurance going to make them any safer? If you trust the friend I don't see a problem.

I know you can't get the whole story from the little info on NetMums, but it does seem as if Ofsted is putting a stop to it because the parents are getting 'reward', not because the children at any risk.

And what if a friend & I were to look after each others children while we went shopping or to the hairdressers? Would our 'reward' be that we could enjoy a peaceful afternoon?

[Zoomie]

not sure of the exact wording of the rules etc,

but you are exempt from registering if you care for close family members (ie your mum caring for your children), the rest of it ... well you the law says you have to be registered.

its like lots of people earn 'private money' but do they all declare it to the tax man ???

[littletreasures]

And that your perogative hebs, but say you did have a best friend who you knew well and had known for years, wouldn't you want the OPTION of leavin g the kids with them and swapping childcare as needed,

or possible haveing to use the services of a stranger albeit a reg'd an insured one??

I know which I would do if I was in that position. ;)

Exactly, Flora. I knew my child would be looked after as well as I would care for her. She loved going to the house and even called her Nana Nana as well. They saw each other most days and by the time they were 5/6 would often stay overnight either at mine or her friends house. They looked on each other as sisters. They were very close.

I was lucky and was able to be at home with my children and do childminding. I have always said I would never send my children to a childminder, knowing there were some rotten ones out there. I would much rather have had a best friend have my children than a stranger.

[Hebs]

And that your perogative hebs, but say you did have a best friend who you knew well and had known for years, wouldn't you want the OPTION of leavin g the kids with them and swapping childcare as needed,

or possible haveing to use the services of a stranger albeit a reg'd an insured one??

I know which I would do if I was in that position. ;)


no i wouldn't :thumbsup:
i would still use a registered provider, my friends (who do offer) are not there to provide care for my kids.

sorry but thats my views :D

[Mollymop]

i have to say i have never had friends look after my kids :panic: i hate to put on to them :blush:

my mum has looked after my kids when i've had to work late nights and weekends and couldn't find childcare but my kids did go to an out of school club for the majority of it :)

I know what you mean about putting on people - i feel oike this with my mim and my kids - but when I was growing up my neighbour used to have me while mum went out to work - her house was open as was ours and me and neighbours kids used to dart form one house to another - she would care for me and I called her "autie" and I love her more than my blood Aunties - she is very special to me and she was a neighbour and a close family friend.
My mum used to have her kids rouind to play and if she went out shopping or anywhere , mum would never mond her kids beong with us - we like a big family!
Could you imagine my mum sending me to a childminder or a nursery if you were me?
Actually i remember being left round my aunts house and crying my eyes out til my "auntie Vi" came to take me to her house - she was the neoughbour I have been talking about.

I hate that ofsted can take this away from people - ..

After all Ofsted dont; know a thing about us or even caring for children....they are educational watchdogs/regulators and that is all they look into. Not the care a neighbour or close friend has on a child - but whether a stranger is teaching them and taking payment.

[Mouse]

no i wouldn't :thumbsup:
i would still use a registered provider, my friends (who do offer) are not there to provide care for my kids.

sorry but thats my views :D


Would you not provide care for a friend's child then unless they used you as proper registered care?

[little chickee]

no i wouldn't :thumbsup:
i would still use a registered provider, my friends (who do offer) are not there to provide care for my kids.

sorry but thats my views :D

so does this mean that if your friend asked you to look after their child for a few hours while they had to attend an important meeting, funeral, job interview etc and didnt have family to call on to help you wouldnt do it?

[Hebs]

yes a one off but not daily or weekly IYKWIM??

i have my friends 2 kids while she works but it's strictly business :thumbsup:

[Mollymop]

its like lots of people earn 'private money' but do they all declare it to the tax man ???

Do u know -- I get so cross about the blooming Tax Man!! Doesn't he take enough from us all already!! who cares if my ol' Auntie Via who was a neighbour used to earn £10 cash in hand 20 years ago for looking after me and my younger sister a week! Coorrrr dear! i don't really begrudge any mum who lets her kids go to a close friend or relative who has loved them from the start, who has always been there for the children since birth and whom mum has always felt safe with and the children love nearly as much as they love their own parents...

[flora]

I do see where you are coming from Hebs.

It's not up to my freinds to provide any kind of childcare but if both parties were ok with it......

The thing I don't like is it is eroding a parents right to choose.

As I said before I AM all for keeping kids safe and out of harms way, but parents should have freedom choice.

[Hebs]

I do see where you are coming from Hebs.

It's not up to my freinds to provide any kind of childcare but if both parties were ok with it......

The thing I don't like is it is eroding a parents right to choose.

As I said before I AM all for keeping kids safe and out of harms way, but parents should have freedom choice.

yeah but this kind of situation leaves ofsted in catch 22 really

it's not different to unregistered "childminders" imo :panic:

[Mouse]

What gets me is Ofsted can hardly manage the work they've got on now, never mind going out & trying to find more problems and more people to try to regulate :laughing:

[Hebs]

What gets me is Ofsted can hardly manage the work they've got on now, never mind going out & trying to find more problems and more people to try to regulate :laughing:

:laughing: :laughing:

i know

[little chickee]

My son who is 9 has spent the last 4 weeks either at his friends house after school and staying for his tea or she is at my house. This arrangement is perfectly fine with both myself and his friends mum as it keeps them occupied.

He has been for a sleepover at his friends and she is coming here at the weekend - surely it is the same sort of thing - we should be allowed to have our friends kids in our house as much as we like if that suits us. I think it is our choice wheter we take on kids as "customers" or for a favour and likewise for those who are not childminders we have the right to do what we feel is best for our own kids.

Not everyone that works is entited to financial help so if they have to pay for registered childcare may not be able to afford to go to work.

[flora]

yeah but this kind of situation leaves ofsted in catch 22 really

it's not different to unregistered "childminders" imo :panic:

I know it's a difficult one to police and the phrase all or nothing springs to mind.

I just think being reg'd and insured doesn't guarantee safety and peace of mind.

You only have to look at Miffy's post re the nursery and the nursery worker recently conviced of abuse in the southwest.

The world is full of bad things and bad people but I am not innocent enough to believe that ofsted reg'd care is the only way to go.

[miffy]

yes but isn't that the difference??

one is babysitting, the other is providing childcare??

Sorry but I can't see any difference - both situations the adults are doing jobs, the only difference is where they're doing them (at home or at work). No money changes hands in either case.

Miffy xx

[miffy]

Been thinking - if OFSTED had interferred with me purely as a parent - I would be livid!!!


So would I!!!

Miffy xx

[helenlc]

I am on the fence and can see both sides.

When I first worked in a pre-school, my daughter was unable to attend all the sessions i worked, so my Aunt had her from 8.30 - 12.30 twice a week. I never paid my aunt and she never asked for reward - she just loved having my DD. I would have rather done this than send her to a registered childminder.

I have often "swapped kids" with friends as a favour and for no reward other than returning the favour at a later date. We have not clocked up times and days and make sure everything is evenly spread. It comes down to who needs help and for how long.

I had my friends 3 while she attended her 23 yr old brothers funeral. I have my friends 8 yr triplets while she takes her 3 foster kids to their contact visits. I have my friends little girl tomorrow as she in enrolling in college. When I have needed them to have my 2, they have.

I have to admit that I would be tempted to do as these ladies have done if I was in the job they are in and worked opposite shifts. BUT it would worry me greatly if something happened to their child whilst I was responsible for them.

BUT then again, a child could still have an accident in my care (touch wood they dont) as a registered CM. Will my insurance and the fact that I had a CRB check and Paediatric First Aid make them feel any better about me if their child got run over and was left with life threatening injuries whilst with me?

Also, I have to say, that as a parent I would be seriously :censored: off if Ofsted got involved in a private arrangement I had with a friend. But, again, I can see how it could potentially going horribly wrong if you didnt know the person as well as you thought. I mean what about all those mothers whose husbands are abusing their children right under their noses?

:angry: Its a very tricky one - I keep talking myself on and out of the rights and wrongs!!!:laughing:

[MissTinkerbell]

I'm also on the fence with this one.

As a CM I see the importance of using registered childcare with proper regulations, CRB checks, insurance etc.

As a parent I can also see the benefits of leaving my children with a close friend. Personally my children have always been left with my parents because none of my close friends live close enough to do this.

However these friends are obviously very close (who knows probably even closer than what they would be if they were realted) and I don't see why they should not be allowed to do what they are doing. Its a private arrangement between 2 close friends, no reward is being taken so why shouldn't they?

Plus who's to say that they are sat in front of the TV all day long?

At the end of the day its the parent's choice... I used to look after my goddaughter and her sister for 5 hours a day during my holidays home from college - when I was training to be a teacher -and their mum preferred me to look after them than send them to a stranger.

Oh can't amke my mind up over this one...

[Blaze]

Miss Tinkerbelle - I wasn't meaning that unless you're a childminder you sit kids in front of the TV all day...probably didn't explain myself very well - sorry!:blush:

[Alibali]

Ridiculous!! When I was doing shift work I would've loved to have a friend who would have watched my lot and I would have been happy to reciprocate, childminders are hard to find when you are a shift worker!! I've heard a few say they don't like looking after shift workers.

Are the government going to take away all parental rights and choices? Yes accidents happen and friends don't have insurance but neither do parents and most accidents happen at home - have you seen the thread 'accidents our own kids have had'? Enough said:laughing: :laughing:

[rickysmiths]

Ummm - I believe that as they jobshare this is the perfect solution in the parent's eyes...as a childcare professional - I can see 2 kids sat in front of the TV all day & not being as stimulated as they would be in a childcare setting - however - how many kids do this with certain stay at home Mum's???& how many kids would be better off with Mum then in childcare?I wouldn't class "work" as a reward though! ...I'm on the fence :D



I'm sorry but not all parents sit their children infront of the telly all day. Just because they are not childcare professionals does not mean that the children will not be stimulated as well as being in a childcare setting.

I certainly did not stick my children in front of the telly all day. I did not if I had a friends child round for the day either. I was just as good at (and still am) parenting as I am a childminder. I went to toddler groups, had masses of toys, crafts, baking. Went on trains, buses for walks. Visited farms, museums went swimming etc,etc,etc. The only difference between being a good mum and a cm is the lack of paperwork. :laughing:

Before I started minding I helped friends out and they did the same for me. It was only adhoc though, never on a regular basis.

[Blaze]

Miss Tinkerbelle - I wasn't meaning that unless you're a childminder you sit kids in front of the TV all day...probably didn't explain myself very well - sorry!:blush:

You obviuosly missed this post Ricksmiths - perhaps you should read the whole of a thread before you get on your high-horse! (sp)?!

[The Juggler]

I must admit I'm off the fence. I think it's ridiculous. I know friends who have reported "minders" who are not registered but taking money for childcare and ofsted refused to do anything as they only are concerned with registered minders (or that was their response).

They have a wishy washy way of investigating serious complaints usually and I don't see anything wrong, or Ofsted's right to interfere with these two friends doing what they are doing.

If they are meant to be in school that's different but these two mums probably don't see it as any different to their children being at home with them and these two friends are probably more like auntie's to the children.

If they were advertising their services and vancacies I'd have something to say but otherwise - leave them alone ofsted.

[Pudding Girl]

Am I right in thinking that when someone is reported they get warned a few times before action is taken? So someone would only be taken to court for continuously flouting regulations?

At the end of the day whatever we think, it's the law. And without we'd not be here might I add...

[sweets]

i can see it from both sides really.

i think if the two friends are only having each others children on an equal time basis then it shoud be allowed. BUT

Ofsted should be made aware of it, and parents should sign somesort of disclaimer that states that both parties are not insured and are not registered childminders.

If i was in the same situation then i would want my best friend to be able to look after my child and vise versa

[FussyElmo]

Personally I think there is more than this than meets the eye. Have ofsted actually got the legal right to enter someones home and tell them who they can and cannot look after their children. Hope ofsted is recruiting for extra staff because they are going to be really busy because Im pretty sure alot of people do this in some form or another!!!!

Personally i think if I want to leave my children with a friend and have hers in return then it is nothing to do with ofsted.

To me ofsted should be dealing with the unregistered childminders who in opinion are doing much worse.

Other than that I am on the fence on the subject:)

[sweets]

was just wondering, what could ofsted actually do about this? could the parents be fined by them?

[The Juggler]

Personally I think there is more than this than meets the eye. Have ofsted actually got the legal right to enter someones home and tell them who they can and cannot look after their children. Hope ofsted is recruiting for extra staff because they are going to be really busy because Im pretty sure alot of people do this in some form or another!!!!

Personally i think if I want to leave my children with a friend and have hers in return then it is nothing to do with ofsted.

To me ofsted should be dealing with the unregistered childminders who in opinion are doing much worse.

Other than that I am on the fence on the subject:)


I totally agree. But the thing is they seemed to ignore the unregistered minders (in my experience of those who have been reported anyway), so why pick on two friends who are not minding for any reward.

[Lou]

OMG OMG OMG:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Im so OFF the fence im lying on the floor in shock.

This is flaming ridiculous.

I used to be a childminder for a long time. I recently gave up and now i work full time out of the home. During the summer holidays there were one or 2 days that I couldnt cover childcare, so my best friend looked after my children for me. She was more than happy to do so for me, and offered to have them more than she did, but as someone has said i didnt want to put upon her. When i collected the children both days, i bought her some wine and some flowers to say thankyou. She was not expecting anything but i wanted to show her how grateful i was.

Now if OFSTED have a problem with this....TOUGH!!!!! what the hell are they gonna do about it????? They are my children and i will flipping well leave them with whoever i want and if i want to give them a "reward" for it then thats my business.

The situation with the 2 women on net mums is crazy, (bear in mind i havent read all thhe replies) but the women job share, are close friends and their children are friends and they have found an ideal situation which suits all parties. Now if they are forced to stop, they will have to potentially take their children out of an environment they are happy and settled in and try to settle them with childminder/nursery. Worst case they may even have to give up their jobs if they cant afford the care.

THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD.

[flora]

OMG OMG OMG:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Im so OFF the fence im lying on the floor in shock.

This is flaming ridiculous.

I used to be a childminder for a long time. I recently gave up and now i work full time out of the home. During the summer holidays there were one or 2 days that I couldnt cover childcare, so my best friend looked after my children for me. She was more than happy to do so for me, and offered to have them more than she did, but as someone has said i didnt want to put upon her. When i collected the children both days, i bought her some wine and some flowers to say thankyou. She was not expecting anything but i wanted to show her how grateful i was.

Now if OFSTED have a problem with this....TOUGH!!!!! what the hell are they gonna do about it????? They are my children and i will flipping well leave them with whoever i want and if i want to give them a "reward" for it then thats my business.

The situation with the 2 women on net mums is crazy, (bear in mind i havent read all thhe replies) but the women job share, are close friends and their children are friends and they have found an ideal situation which suits all parties. Now if they are forced to stop, they will have to potentially take their children out of an environment they are happy and settled in and try to settle them with childminder/nursery. Worst case they may even have to give up their jobs if they cant afford the care.

THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD.

You have an opinion on this matter Lou?????

Don't hold back tell us what you think :thumbsup: ;)

[Lou]

You have an opinion on this matter Lou?????

Don't hold back tell us what you think :thumbsup: ;)

Sorry. It just gets my goat. I have no idea what there is to on the fence about. Ofsted need to go and get on with the work they are supposed to be doing.

[LOOPYLISA]

OMG OMG OMG:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Im so OFF the fence im lying on the floor in shock.

This is flaming ridiculous.

I used to be a childminder for a long time. I recently gave up and now i work full time out of the home. During the summer holidays there were one or 2 days that I couldnt cover childcare, so my best friend looked after my children for me. She was more than happy to do so for me, and offered to have them more than she did, but as someone has said i didnt want to put upon her. When i collected the children both days, i bought her some wine and some flowers to say thankyou. She was not expecting anything but i wanted to show her how grateful i was.

Now if OFSTED have a problem with this....TOUGH!!!!! what the hell are they gonna do about it????? They are my children and i will flipping well leave them with whoever i want and if i want to give them a "reward" for it then thats my business.

The situation with the 2 women on net mums is crazy, (bear in mind i havent read all thhe replies) but the women job share, are close friends and their children are friends and they have found an ideal situation which suits all parties. Now if they are forced to stop, they will have to potentially take their children out of an environment they are happy and settled in and try to settle them with childminder/nursery. Worst case they may even have to give up their jobs if they cant afford the care.

THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD.

Couldn't blooming agree more :censored:

[oakie dokie]

The worlds gone madddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd!

[venus89]

I'm on the fence too - hi everyone :laughing:

thing is Lou, what you and a lot of peole are talking about is occasional which as far as I understand it is fine. It's when it's a regular thing that Ofsted start poking their nose in. As a parent I think it's the perfect solution. As a childcarer I see some disadvantages but I think the idea put forward before about both parents signing some kind of disclaimer or similar should cover most of the probles (eg lack of insurance).

[Lou]

I'm on the fence too - hi everyone :laughing:

thing is Lou, what you and a lot of peole are talking about is occasional which as far as I understand it is fine. It's when it's a regular thing that Ofsted start poking their nose in. As a parent I think it's the perfect solution. As a childcarer I see some disadvantages but I think the idea put forward before about both parents signing some kind of disclaimer or similar should cover most of the probles (eg lack of insurance).

Even if its a regular thing it makes no difference. I will leave my child with whoever i like whenever i like and its none of ofsteds business. I realise its a different situation if someone is advertising childcare and they are not registered, but that is not the issue here.

And as for signing a disclaimer, well i think my best friend would be offended (quite rightly so) if i asked her to do that, and then would i have to ask my mum? she also looks after my children.