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View Full Version : Battle over term time only notice period and payment!



Tasha M
28-08-2009, 11:56 PM
I have been minding these 2 sisters for nearly 2 years...only 2 days a week after school, which suited me fine...they have been a bit of trouble..nothing too major but compared to my other after school mindees a nightmare...anyway they are on a term time only contract... i don't charge at all during school holidays, no retainer, nothing.

Anyway whilst i was on holiday in spain i received an email saying that mum's job has been cut and she has been asked by her boss to take a couple of months off unpaid, could be more. Understandably they cannot see any point to pay to keep spaces open, how gutted they were, blah blah blah and that when i return from my hols they go away and when they are back we should have a chat...i said yeah great as we need to discuss notice period and final payment..they replied saying this was the notice period and what payment...could i reply ASAP as they go away and don't want to worry about it whilst on holiday!!!!

I spoke with dad on thursday, they thought as i was a friend i could waver the 4 weeks payment!!!! The only way we are friends is that our older 2 dd go to the same school, we never socialise etc and they wanted a professional, no favours contract from the start. anyway i explained as it was a term time only contract that notice couldn't be given during holiday etc, he then banged on about bank holidays, they've had to pay 3 in 2 years! i explained that they are public holidays nothing to do with school holidays... to try and cut a long thread short, he said i may want to think about this situation as they were shocked by me asking for 4 weeks pay, we agreed on 2 weeks pay, he still wasn't overly pleased with that tbh...i asked if mum could call me so i could chat to her 2...so far no call.......anyway am i being unreasonable expecting my 4 weeks notice pay???? part of me thinks i'm not but the other part of me isn't so sure :confused:

Pipsqueak
29-08-2009, 06:58 AM
Friendship or not besides not you are not being unreasonable and you have ever right to expect your 4 weeks money and notice period.
If THEY were friends then they would understand that this is business.

Stick to your guns and I think you are being more than generous cutting it down to 2 wweeks notice. I don't think they 'get it' that when they give you notice - you are losing work as well (just the same as the mum!)

christine e
29-08-2009, 07:33 AM
Friendship or not besides not you are not being unreasonable and you have ever right to expect your 4 weeks money and notice period.
If THEY were friends then they would understand that this is business.

Stick to your guns and I think you are being more than generous cutting it down to 2 wweeks notice. I don't think they 'get it' that when they give you notice - you are losing work as well (just the same as the mum!)

I think exactly same as above.

Stick to your guns!!!!!

Cx

The Juggler
29-08-2009, 09:54 AM
So are her work not giving her 4 weeks notice and pay? I don't think so. Ask her how she would feel if they gave her no notice.

I would say it it depends. If they pay you over 12 months of the year, equally, then paying you four weeks from now would work, even though the children might not be with you. However, if they don't pay you anything during school hols then absolutely they owe you four weeks of the normal term-time payment.

Good luck

LOL

CCJD
29-08-2009, 12:52 PM
When setting up term time only contracts you have to be really clear from the outset what you want and ensure that the parent fully understands the terms and conditions. By clear I mean really discuss this point, not hope that they pick it up on the contract they sign.

I personally decided that whilst it would be lovely to have the clause that parents have to give 4 weeks term time notice if they wanted to end the contract, I wasnt sure that I would want to bound in by those same rules - if I wanted to give notice, it could land up being a very long period before I could finish.

I therefore decided to use my MM contracts which are purely 4 weeks notice (no reference to holiday periods or paid/unpaid time off). For me this works and when I gave notice to my term time only person at the beginning of the hols it was a blessing that I didnt have to wait until September before the 4 weeks notice began. (My parents do however pay a retainer which I then waived so me giving notice then, saved them money over the hols).

The answer to your dilema is simple - if you made it clear at the outset that this was how your contracts worked - then you must stick to your guns and parents will have to put up with it. If you didnt talk this issue over when contracts were signed, I personally think that I could understand if a parent missed the importance of the small print for a term time contract. I could understand if a parent thought 4 weeks notice was all that was needed.

A signed contract is a signed contract however and you are still within your rights to insist on your money but I personally would be a little more lenient in a case where I hadnt made it crystal clear how notice worked. I woud probably back down and only charge 2 weeks, making note to ensure I discuss this point if I ever enter into this type of contract again. However this is me and my after schoolers are not that important to my income.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. You are not wrong in isisting on all your money, this is simply the way I do things.

miffy
29-08-2009, 05:06 PM
NCMA's advice on this is different - their handbook used to say

"If you have a term-time only contract or a school holiday only contract and the parent gives notice during the period that you are not contracted to childmind, you will not be able to ask for payment in lieu of notice, as you would not be caring for the children during the time of the notice period. So, if you are offering a term-time only service with a four-week notice period, and the parent gives notice during the first week of August, you could not claim payment in lieu because you would not normally be caring for that child during the summer holidays."

Not helpful I know :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

Tasha M
30-08-2009, 10:16 PM
NCMA contract states that notice cannot be given during holiday or unpaid time off...she did email me knowing i was in spain at the time...she even said that in her email.

Another learning curve eh!! Will def make it clearer the next time about notice period etc.

Part of me still thinks she is taking me for a ride though!

Thanks everyone for all your answers...always good to get other people's views and input. xx

miffy
31-08-2009, 07:54 AM
NCMA contract states that notice cannot be given during holiday or unpaid time off...she did email me knowing i was in spain at the time...she even said that in her email.


This is what NCMA say about that

" Where it states on NCMA's contract that "notice of termination of the contract must be given in writing and should not include a period of holiday or paid time off", this refers to a holiday or paid time off within the childminder's contracted hours."

I'm assuming that you were on holiday during the school holidays and so weren't contracted to have the children?

I'm not saying it's fair or that I think you're wrong to want 4 weeks paid notice - just that it shows the danger of not getting things crystal clear on the contract.

Miffy xx

CCJD
31-08-2009, 08:08 AM
This is interesting Miffy, I am sure that I am not the only one who assumed this clause meant that term time only people couldn't give notice in holiday times (I have never wanted or used this clause in my contracts- hence I used MM contracts) but it is certainly how I read the NCMA contracts.

Hebs
31-08-2009, 08:25 AM
This is interesting Miffy, I am sure that I am not the only one who assumed this clause meant that term time only people couldn't give notice in holiday times (I have never wanted or used this clause in my contracts- hence I used MM contracts) but it is certainly how I read the NCMA contracts.

no cos i thought that too :panic:

i'm seriously considering switching to MM :D

CCJD
31-08-2009, 08:35 AM
It's swings and roundabouts with these contracts. I prefer the guidance notes on the ncma contracts ( which back up our right to charge for hols etc) and also how the hours are set out, but prefer the notice conditions of the MM ones. As I am with MM, I use their contracts but don't be too hasty to switch.

kindredspirits
31-08-2009, 08:58 AM
whilst Miffy's point is right i think - the point of the matter i would think is that notice was given at the end of august for what is presumably a term time starting in september - so the OP should be entitled to AT LEAST 3 weeks notice pay - she may have been able to fill the spaces during the school holidays but a week before the children return to school most people have their childcare sorted.

i would personally work out how many weeks you would have been caring for the children from the start of the notice period and charge them for that many. :thumbsup:

Tasha M
03-09-2009, 08:03 PM
spoke to mum today, had previously spoken to dad! conversation went really well, mum was very apologetic and grateful that i agreed to reduce notice payment to 2 weeks and really hopes her work will pick up again in a couple months time and hopes that if i have the spaces i would take them back, so all in all it was ok and i have certainly learned alot from this experience!!!

Thanks again for all the comments..it really does help xx :) :thumbsup: