Phew!!

[madasahatter]

Ofsted are granting me a new variation to have 4 under 5's from September. :clapping:
An inspector phoned me earlier to clarify some details and we talked about a 4 yr old who will be starting reception in September and their impact on the ratio. She told me it was OK to count her in my 5 to 8's when she was attending school but in holidays she would need to be counted in my 0-5 group until 31st August after her 5th birthday (yet another example of different OFSTED staff saying different things?). Now do I follow this up? because I thought it had been made clear that for ratio purposes a 4 yr old in reception was counted as in the 5-8 bracket even in the hols. I said this to the inspector, (saying I was aware that I still needed to follow EYFS until the end of reception), but she was adamant.
I'm in two minds as to whether or not to follow it up as it doesn't actually cause me any problems. (3 of the 4 children in my 0-5 group that the variation will cover are term time only so there will be space in my 0-5 group in the hols).

[ORKSIE]

I also thought a reception child counted as a five year old in hols too.
Will be interested to see what others say:)

[bibby76]

I was also told by OFSTED that once a child is in reception they move in to the 5-8 age group, even in half terms. Im interested in what others will say:)

sarah

[ZoeAlli]

I know that a reception child was counted in the 5-8's ratio before the EYFS came in but I thought since this came inthey were counted as one of your under 5's? I too will be interested to hear what response you get if you follow it up.

:) :)

[LisaMcNally09]

At our ICP course we were told it was August 31st after their fifth birthday!! I asked because my son was 5 last november but he doesnt count until end of this August!!!

[Shivvie]

Oh my goodness! I hope that's wrong! I was told that once they were in full time education then they were classed as over 5, even in the holidays. I hope so as we've got a little boy with us over the holidays who takes us over our numbers if this is wrong!

Our own little boy is 5 in November but we were hoping to increase our numbers as soon as he starts full-time school. I've written to Ofsted about this so hopefully will find out quite soon. We've already told someone their child can start with us mid-September so I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thank you for bringing this up, it's made me aware of the situation (worried but aware!!):thumbsup: :)

[MissTinkerbell]

All I know is that the 2 children I have variations for (2 little girls starting reception in Sept) are classed as 'rising-5s' from 21st Sept and can then be included in my 5-8 ratios during term time and holidays (Ofsted told me this on Wed last week) but I have to do the EYFS with them until the 31st August following their 5th birthday.

I remember all this last year and Sarah sending numerous emails to Ofsted and DCFS and getting clarification on this. They told her that once they started school they were classed as over 5s for ratios whether it was term time or not. However they are still on the Early Years register so need to do EYFS with them until 31st August after they turn 5 - so basically the same as what Ofsted told me last week.

[mummyroysof3]

im really hoping they move into 5-8 bracket when they start full time school, jack goes full time in jan but isnt 5 till may and i was hoping he would free up a full time vacancy in jan:rolleyes:

charlotte x

[jeanybeany]

Gosh, I thought for a moment that i have been over numbers without even knowing it. I understand it that once they are in a reception class they are classed as an over 5 for the purpose of ratio all the time. Hope I am right:eek:

[georgie456]

I've just looked at my certificate, and my variation states that I am allowed 4 under 5's until such time my DD starts reception full time, so I would say that she is counted as a rising 5 in hols too...

[Helen79]

I spoke to ofsted about this recently, I was told that once they are in full time education which is 10sessions a week that they are classed as a 'rising 5' & are counted in your 5-8 ratios, term time & holidays but still need to do the EYFS with them until 31st Aug after their 5th birthday.

I've just received my new certificate which says:


may care for no more than 4 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 1 may be in the early years age group, and of these none may be under1 year at any one time

when caring for 4 or 5 year old children who are in full time education, may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded (Erly Years Register)



I really wish that they'd write what you can do rather than 'may not' which just confuses me lol

[misst104]

Gosh, I thought for a moment that i have been over numbers without even knowing it. I understand it that once they are in a reception class they are classed as an over 5 for the purpose of ratio all the time. Hope I am right:eek:

I hope so too otherwise I will be over numbers one a day a week from September!

xxx jo

[madasahatter]

Just as I thought it is still causing a lot of confusion and the people who should know (Ofsted) are still giving out varying answers.
I think I might email them and ask for this

When caring for 4 or 5 year old children who are in full time education, may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded (Early Years Register)
to be added to my certificate along with the variation.
Also it may be worth everyone who has rising 5's to request the additional wording on their certificate. Maybe if they are deluged with demands for proper clarification then they will do something about it.

[Shirlwith3]

I have just spoken to a lady at ofsted & she said once they are in full time education they ALWAYS classed as an over 5yrs term time & in holidays.
So I am going by that.

shirl

[madasahatter]

I emailed ofsted for clarification and yes they said once in reception they can be classed as over 5's for ratios only all the time. However my reception child gave notice today so that's no longer an issue for me.
I got my new certificate today with my variation on it and arrrgghhh!! they got the times wrong.....they'd put I can have 4 children from 8.30 to 12 and I requested 8am to 2pm (had discussed the time and agreed everything with an inspector on the phone last week). Rang them immediately as I go on holiday this weekend and they are supposedly putting a new certificate in post today/tomorrow because I need it for 1st Sept and don't get back until the 30th Aug. Hope it arrives in time (may have to give my mum some of my id to sign for it down at the sorting office otherwise it may get returned to them with it being recorded!)

[MissTinkerbell]

Typical Ofsted - I'd better double check the times on mine - I've got 2 variations to give me 5 under 5s as I have two 4 year olds starting September.