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louise
21-02-2008, 08:15 PM
Hi. Just want some advice. My son is 4 in April he has been at preschool and i have been minding since last Jan. Lately i have noticed that he doesnt interact with other children. When he sees hes friend at preschool he use to ignore them then may join in the running round before they start. Now he will sometimes go running up to them but wont say hello he will either look at them or make a fart noise. Sometimes he may say their name mainly to one girl he has known since he was a baby.Even with mindee they dont play together that much. Yet when i had a part timer after school at xmas he loved playing with her and she use to ask to be left alone.

When ever we have old friends round that arent at preschool but he asks for them to play he just does his own thing. Yet 2 year old mindee plays with friend.

I have mentioned it to preschool and they have said that he has progressed more this term.

Thanks Lou

sarah707
21-02-2008, 08:36 PM
I used to work with children with disabilities and tbh it's very early for a busy pre-school setting to start thinking about labelling a child and it would be wrong for them to do that without expert support and help... that is maybe why they are not saying much to you. Either that or they have so many children, they haven't really noticed much.

It is definitely a good thing to keep an eye on him though, as the earlier children who have any sort of challenge are diagnosed and supported, the better for them in the long run.

The problem is, you can go on the internet and read up on things and end up thinking the worst case scenario when maybe all he needs is a bit more maturity.

If you really feel there is a problem and he is not interacting with children in the way you would expect for a child of his age and you want some help or support (or just to be told everything is ok), I would start with your health visitor and maybe progress from there to the doctor.

Don't worry yourself though - share it with someone qualified to help :D

louise
21-02-2008, 08:44 PM
Thank you Sarah, You seem to answer all my questions.
I have thought of going to the health visitor drop in but last time i went i felt silly with all the babies there. Saying that i cant now as he is at school. Ill give them a call on Mon. Hubbie has also asked for his ears to be checked as he doesnt think he hears properly but i think its as he gets to engrossed in what he does to reply.
Preschool mentioned that a lot of kids still play side by side at his age but when i see his friends they all play and chat together.
I mentioned it to my cousin who is a nanny and she thinks its as neither me or hubbie are that confident. Which i think it maybe slightly as he has only just started singing songs alone but he will quite happily count to 30 and do abc.
lou

berkschick
21-02-2008, 08:53 PM
When I first had worries about my eldest, I started off with the health visitor.

I rang and they came to see me at my house so I wasnt surrounded by babies or feeling rushed.

She spent over an hour with me and then she went into pre-school to observe what I was telling her and then we took it from there.

Definately give them a call and ask for a home visit.

sarah707
21-02-2008, 09:00 PM
There are many degrees of hearing loss and yes, sometimes a child can appear not to hear when in fact they are too engrossed in what they are doing...

- Do you find he watches your mouth when you are talking to him? - he might be lip reading...
- Does he hear you when you call for tea? - boys do ( and I'm sorry I'm gereralising here but they take it into adulthood as well...) have selective hearing sometimes...
- Does he seem to have a continually runny nose? Has he had a bad throat or lots of coughs this winter? - this could mean a bunged up middle ear which would definitely need diagnosing and treating
- Does he give you eye contact when you are talking to him? This can often show a child with autistic tendencies, but again I am generalising, some children just don't like looking at people.
- If you make a bump behind him, will he jump? Does this depend on whether he is watching tv or doing a jigsaw or reading a book with you? - again he could be so engrossed in what he is doing that he really doesn't want to listen... would it make a difference if the bump was the biscuit tin?
- Will he sit and listen to a book or is it a trial to get him to settle? - if he cannot hear you properly he might not want to sit and not hear a book being read.
- Does he react in what you would call a normal way when he goes up to children -apart from the farting noise? Or does he just make the noise and walk away? He might not know what to say and it might be worth schooling him in how to approach people for a while.
- Does he speak loudly? This might be linked to hearing.
- does he shout out inappropriately? He might be wanting to join in a conversation but not know how - either because he can't hear it or because he does not have the skills yet - either through immaturity or an underlying condition.

Just some thoughts from an ex-audiologist! :D

louise
21-02-2008, 09:21 PM
Do you find he watches your mouth when you are talking to him? - he might be lip reading...
I havent noticed this

- Does he hear you when you call for tea? - boys do ( and I'm sorry I'm gereralising here but they take it into adulthood as well...) have selective hearing sometimes...
Yes he will

- Does he seem to have a continually runny nose? Has he had a bad throat or lots of coughs this winter? - this could mean a bunged up middle ear which would definitely need diagnosing and treating
He has had a bit more of a runny nose this winter

- Does he give you eye contact when you are talking to him? This can often show a child with autistic tendencies, but again I am generalising, some children just don't like looking at people.
Depends on what we are doing. If he is being told off he refuses to look at you. When you try and get his attention by calling his name he will suddenly go 'UH'

- If you make a bump behind him, will he jump? Does this depend on whether he is watching tv or doing a jigsaw or reading a book with you? - again he could be so engrossed in what he is doing that he really doesn't want to listen... would it make a difference if the bump was the biscuit tin?
Not sure on that one

- Will he sit and listen to a book or is it a trial to get him to settle? - if he cannot hear you properly he might not want to sit and not hear a book being read.
He does like his books he normally has at least 2 read a day. Tonight i recorded him reading his school book which he knows nearly word perfect from memory.

- Does he react in what you would call a normal way when he goes up to children -apart from the farting noise? Or does he just make the noise and walk away? He might not know what to say and it might be worth schooling him in how to approach people for a while.
He normally stays near them and looks at them as if to say 'Play'. I have discussed about saying hello ect with him.

- Does he speak loudly? This might be linked to hearing.
He can be quite lound when he talks but his Dad talks loud. Worth a mention that i think he has a bit of a hearing problem but nothing has ever been done.

- does he shout out inappropriately? He might be wanting to join in a conversation but not know how - either because he can't hear it or because he does not have the skills yet - either through immaturity or an underlying condition.
He does intrupt a lot.

sarah707
21-02-2008, 09:43 PM
What comes out there is that he might well be a little bit immature... and that maybe he has had more colds than usual this winter so his hearing has come and gone, which may be making him a bit more uncertain than usual.

You said at the beginning he was interacting with a girl at Christmas but that he's lost that skill now - that suggests something coming and going doesn't it? Or else that girls are much less threatening in their play than boys, so he felt safer around her.

Definitely worth getting his hearing checked - the first line of action is always medical - cross off the obvious and then see what is left iykwim.

Pm me if you think I can help in any other way Louise, I hope I've given you some things to think about so you are more ready when you see the doc or health visitor xx

louise
21-02-2008, 10:04 PM
Thank you,
Yes you have given me stuff to think about. Most of his baby friends are girls. There was only 2 boys close to his age at groups. He is always excited that his friends are coming to play and want them at his bday party.
It will be fun trying to get his hearing checked. I had to see the new Dr to get him refered for his skin after 2 drs jsut wanted to treat the symptoms and not find out the cause. It turned out he has an allergy to sun light and it shouldnt be conected.
ill give them a call and also speak to preschool again on Mon.
Thanks again.

louise
21-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Sorry Debbie, I forgot to say thank you i will ask for a home visit bet that day he plays well with mindee.

louise
25-02-2008, 10:08 AM
Well is spoke to prechool today. They are going to keep and eye on him. they hadn't noticed anything. His main group he plays with is boys. He does't play with Mica so much anymore who was his friend before he started.

Im wondering if he prefers a large group setting then a few friends. He mainly saw his baby friend at toddler group so he could play with a few at different times. He also didn't speak to any friends on their own today untill several were together. So that makes me think he does prefer group situations.

Im waiting for the health visitor to phone back after clinic.

sarah707
25-02-2008, 10:42 AM
Im waiting for the health visitor to phone back after clinic.

If she doesn't offer to come and see you... ask! :p

I hope playgroup do some proper obs for you as well now you've asked them ... :D

louise
25-02-2008, 01:06 PM
Ok spoken to Health visitor. She has said that it maybe he prefers group situations and lacks confidence at the moment. She didnt have no main concerns as he is fine with adults and my younger brother(10) who is playing nicely with now. She has asked for preschool to observe him for a few weeks then get back to her. She did say that his preschool was very good at picking up things and new the managers name.

I dont think his hearing is a problem he does make jump with the bump behind him. Hv was impressed that he could recite his school book with out looking. If i still doent feel happy in a few weeks i will ask for a home visit.

Thanks for all the advice. I love this forum.

louise
19-03-2008, 09:05 PM
UPDATE: I managed to grab the teacher today. They think he is doing fine. She did mention one thing that may be worth mentioning to HV. The way he holds his hands. It has been facsinating(sp) them. She said its the way he holds pens he bends his hand backwards and he still grabs things rather then pinches. I have noticed the way he holds pens before but not bending hand backwards. Sometimes he grabs it all fingers round it with thumb nearest the paper if you get what i mean. He still prefers to scribble then colour in. He is slowly trying to trace and will draw people(he doesnt do them at school).

I feel slightly better on his playing as he does now tell me he played this and that. I think he jsut doesnt like the approach, He was handing out party invites this week. Each time he went running up to me saying so and so is here and took the invite and ran to them waving it in the childs face. No words said.

I'm going to phone hv again tom to see what they advice. Oh forgot to say everytime i try and get him to hold a pencil correct he complains.
Lou

sarah707
19-03-2008, 09:55 PM
It sounds like you are making real progress Louise!

Keep up the pressure to get things done :D

Heaven Scent
20-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Before I start please understand that I am not epert in these things just giving you the bebefit of my eperience as a mum.

Firstly I used to work for an audiologist - no trained in the art myself and this made no difference to me what so ever.

I have two very different children 21 months apart the oldest a boy and the the youngest a girl - They are like chalk and cheese in most ways - physically, build, personality - only similarity is they are jealous of each other and are always trying to get each other into trouble all the time despite being treated with equal concern allowing for differences in personality interests etc etc .and always being treated equally in respect of material goods and money spent on them. - Now I've got that clear I'll get to the point.

My son 1st born was speaking very clearly from an early age and was a very lively and outgoing little chap who would always get very engrosed in whatever he was doing brilliant concentration skills - I thought I was the perfect mother to the perfect child hense went for the second one so soon (well part of the reason) He went to both our local pre school (from when my DD was 12 mths old) and the nursery of the school I worked at (daughter about just over 18mtns)

He was at nursery for about 7-8 mths when his teacher asked me if I had ever had his hearing checked - I almost laughed at her and asked why she said that he didn'tg always respond to her when he had his back to her and he spoke very loudly sometimes. My response was that he was part of a group of 4-5 very loud boys and that he was always the type of child to want to please the people he was with at the time and as well as that he always gets very involved in what he is doing and concentrated so hard on it he either cant take in what is going on around him as well or just totally blocks it out. - that was me the mother who had worked with children for years and had worked amongst people who had hearing difficulties - I was an older mum. The teacher asked me to have his hearing checked out on several more occasions butwas very resistant to this as at one of his developmental checks the health visitor (Not our regular one who knew him)
suggested that he was short sighted and I knew he wasn't and he had only just finished going through a series of checks with doctors trying to find something wrong with his eye sight - I'd been for more visits to a variey of hospitals than soft mick - they even put vey stingy eye drops into his eyes and I was loath to have him go through that again. Anyway I rang and left a message for the health visitor who never returned my call so I just left it and lo and behold I got a letter for him to see a doctor (who turned out to be the school doctor for the school he would be attending - she was a specialist in audiology as well) He flew through all of the tests he had to do with toys and pictures and then most of the ones with the head phones and then she said I'll just do one more. Well he fell and fell very hard on that hurdle I cant remember the lingo but it had to do with vibration in his ears and in one ear there was very little and the other there was none at all. What this proved was that he had glue ear and they would have to keep an eye on it as they didn't like putting children through operations to put in gromits. She said it would drain away eventually. He did suffer with perforated ear drums on a regular basis. What had thrown me off the scent here was that his speech was soooooo articulate and clear from the very beginning - I did discuss this with the doctor who said that the problem mustn't have developed until after his speech developed - he was only 3 for goodness sake so my feeling was that surely he would have difficulty pronouncing words he learnt when the problem was bad but Niall rarely mis pronounced a word in his life and has rarely ever had to learn to spell it all just came naturally to him - he was reading at a very young age also. He didn't show any signs of ever lip reading he was always good with the old eye contact thing though I put that down to his open and warm personality. Lesson learnt - I'm not the perfect mum nor am I the expert on child development I secretly thought I was.

Now to the daughter always bunged up with horrible snotty noses always looking filthy always really shy and nervous never trusting people especially strangers. I also noticed her lip reading from a very early age - I know young babies do this when developing early speech patterns but Hazel never stopped. She could make singing noises to a variety of tunes well 4 actually - postman pat (bo ba ba), Happy Birthday (appa der'ay eh oo), Rosie and Jim (wo wo dim) - I can't remember the other one just now - long before she could speak the tune was perfect every time I thought I had a budding songstress on my hands - but no she's as flat as her mother. I had niggles about her hearing ability from a very early age and did mention them to the doctor who saw Niall and she suggested I get her in the loop and she was just like her brother with no vibrations but wasn't hearing a huge range of sounds and as a result was missing out the beginning sounds in words - It is more common for children to miss out the ends and she had to see a speech therapist for a while. - I was so aware of the problem in her long before anyone suggested there was a problem with Niall I suppose I just didn't see it in him - I was constantly monitoring her from a very early stage and was arming myself with proof before I went to the doctors with her so they would listen to me on the first visit. - I had been falsely sent down the route of having Hazel checked out for having one leg shorter than the other and all of these checks were soo difficult with her because she was so fearful of strangers and new situations that I wanted it all over in as few visits as possible - she also has a real awkward streak in her (takes after my mother and brother) and would dig her heels in and just would not cooperate with anyone.

The other point I want to make is that I feel your son is probably a shy person who finds it hard to approach his friends and just wants to be accepted - both my husband and daughter are painfully shy. My husband loves being in company but rarely speaks and I think he comes across as arrogant sometimes. But my daughter just longs to belong and is always asking me to invite people around or she wants me to go with her when she knocks on peoples door when she calls for them. She also gets really silly with ecitement when children call for her - my heart could break for her sometimes - I was quite shy and nervous as a child so I know some of what she is going through. If like my daughter he has a bit of glue ear and finds it hard to hear what they are saying then that coupled with the fact that he is shy could be really distressing for him. I feel that he could be happier in a group as he can possible hide the fact that he can't hear because no one will notice if he doesn't speak.

I hope I have made my thoughts clear to you and as I said before I am no epert you have had all the epert advice from SarahNev

I'd fight for a hearing test if I was you what harm will it so him.

I hope everyting goes well for you.

Kind Regards

Celine

Heaven Scent
20-03-2008, 01:14 PM
Sorry it looks as though my x key is not working properly today its missing out of experience and expert - I have to bang it really hard - I had a problem with the s key two days ago and had to get my DH to fix it - sorry about that. Since I started using this lap top I regularly hit the wrong keys because they are so much closer together than on a regular key board and all on the one level plus my typing skills aren't what they were when I was 19 and just out of secretarial college.

Celine

louise
20-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Thanks for that. I am going to ask for the hv to come and visit him just to check. I think the hv will also need to see him at before school.
Lou