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View Full Version : Time to get tough!



venus89
23-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I have decided that it's time to deal with my non/late paying/cheque bouncing Mum. Please would you let me know what you think of the following letter.....?

'Please find attached your cheque, returned to me from Natwest today.
As you are aware, this is the second returned cheque I have had this half term. I am therefore writing to inform you that I will not be accepting cheques from you in future and ask for payments to be made in cash. This will spare you any embarrassment and me any concern.
Whilst on the subject, I would also like to remind you that our contract states that you will pay me weekly on a Friday. I accept payments in arrears as a token of goodwill, in the faith that the parents of children I mind will adhere to the terms of their contract with me. I appreciate that sometimes you may find it difficult to meet a payment owed to me, in which case I ask that you contact me to discuss the situation with me.
You may not be aware that I am within my rights to refuse to accept a child if their fees have not been paid. Thus far I have not exercised this right as I feel it unfair on your father but if your payments continue to be late without explanation I may have to resort to this. I feel sure that you want me to have to do this as much as I do.
If you would like to discuss different payment dates then please contact me.'

mushpea
23-07-2009, 07:12 PM
sounds good but did you know according to the ncma if you refuse the child then you are in breach of contract so you can only claim the fees owed and not the fees for any notice period you should have worked even though the parent is already in breach of contract by not paying you.
obvoulsy she wouldnt know all this so its a good threat to use.

venus89
23-07-2009, 07:14 PM
sounds good but did you know according to the ncma if you refuse the child then you are in breach of contract so you can only claim the fees owed and not the fees for any notice period you should have worked even though the parent is already in breach of contract by not paying you.
obvoulsy she wouldnt know all this so its a good threat to use.

No - I didn't know that :panic:
My problem is that it's a family member who does all the drop offs and pickups. I have no communkication with her whatsoever. But I hope the threat of ot accepting might do the trick as she's not going to want this family member getting narked with her (again)

Pipsqueak
23-07-2009, 07:17 PM
as long as the parent doesn't know this part - its up to her to find out but just exercise some caution. I know MM support this course of action.
As far as I am aware - IF you have put it into your policies or on the contract that this will be your course of action then you can do it (NCMA), although legally don't know where it would stand.

To me it seems ridiculous - they are in breach of contract first and they are failing to pay for contracted services so therefore why should you continue supplying the service.:(

sarah707
23-07-2009, 07:18 PM
Mushpea is right - if you refuse to look after the child she can sue you for loss of earnings and breach of contract if you are insured with Ncma.

You must follow the terms of your contract which are ... late fee letter, contract termination letter, contact Ncma for advice... and you cannot terminate until the end of the contract or you are in the wrong.

The letter sounds fine, all I would say is that it is very strong. I know you mean it to be strong BUT if you want to keep the mindee you might want to soften it a bit... she might leave you. Just a thought as I don't know the situation.

Good luck :D

christinajanep
23-07-2009, 07:18 PM
the parent is breaching the contract anyway by not sticking to it, and your more than in your right to cancel without notice if they do this and have been warned. If they remove the child can you manage without there funds ? i know the payments r ate but can u do without them altogether ?

venus89
23-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Please find attached your cheque, returned to me from Natwest today. Please pay this money to me in cash by 31st July.
As you are aware, this is the second returned cheque I have had this half term. I am therefore writing to inform you that I will not be accepting cheques from you in future and ask for payments to be made in cash.
Whilst on the subject, I would also like to remind you that our contract states that you will pay me weekly on a Friday. I appreciate that sometimes you may find it difficult to meet a payment owed to me, in which case I ask that you contact me to discuss the situation with me. I would ask that payments are made on the Friday of the week in which they are due unless you have made alternate arrangements with me.
If you would like to discuss different payment dates then please contact me.


Is that any better?

Thank you all for your replies - I need a bit of support right now! xxx

manjay
23-07-2009, 07:28 PM
To me it seems ridiculous - they are in breach of contract first and they are failing to pay for contracted services so therefore why should you continue supplying the service.:(

I agree! This is one of my major annoyances with NCMA. I think it is so wrong. I would however play on the fact that they parent probably wouldn't know that;)

sarah707
23-07-2009, 07:29 PM
Please find attached your cheque, returned to me from Natwest today. Please pay this money to me in cash by 31st July.
As you are aware, this is the second returned cheque I have had this half term. I am therefore writing to inform you that I will not be accepting cheques from you in future and ask for payments to be made in cash.
Whilst on the subject, I would also like to remind you that our contract states that you will pay me weekly on a Friday. I appreciate that sometimes you may find it difficult to meet a payment owed to me, in which case I ask that you contact me to discuss the situation with me. I would ask that payments are made on the Friday of the week in which they are due unless you have made alternate arrangements with me.
If you would like to discuss different payment dates then please contact me.


Is that any better?

Thank you all for your replies - I need a bit of support right now! xxx

Yes it is! Much less emotional and more professional. :D

amirose
23-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Please find attached your cheque, returned to me from Natwest today. Please pay this money to me in cash by 31st July.
As you are aware, this is the second returned cheque I have had this half term. I am therefore writing to inform you that I will not be accepting cheques from you in future and ask for payments to be made in cash.
Whilst on the subject, I would also like to remind you that our contract states that you will pay me weekly on a Friday. I appreciate that sometimes you may find it difficult to meet a payment owed to me, in which case I ask that you contact me to discuss the situation with me. I would ask that payments are made on the Friday of the week in which they are due unless you have made alternate arrangements with me.
If you would like to discuss different payment dates then please contact me.


Is that any better?

Thank you all for your replies - I need a bit of support right now! xxx

It sounds fine hun but why not leave out the, "whilst on the subject" and just say "I would also like to remind you ..." it just sounds a bit feisty - like oh and by the way while were at ir grrrr, lol

venus89
23-07-2009, 08:05 PM
It sounds fine hun but why not leave out the, "whilst on the subject" and just say "I would also like to remind you ..." it just sounds a bit feisty - like oh and by the way while were at ir grrrr, lol

Have done! Thankyou.

Yes... I found myself wanting to add quite a few other grievances at the same time :laughing: :blush:

The Juggler
24-07-2009, 06:59 AM
sounds good but did you know according to the ncma if you refuse the child then you are in breach of contract so you can only claim the fees owed and not the fees for any notice period you should have worked even though the parent is already in breach of contract by not paying you.
obvoulsy she wouldnt know all this so its a good threat to use.



surely it can't be in breach of contract just to refuse to care for child until you are paid and then have him again?

sarah707
24-07-2009, 07:20 AM
surely it can't be in breach of contract just to refuse to care for child until you are paid and then have him again?

Yes it is - you are breaching your contract with the parent because your contract says you will work for xxx hours for xxx days a week.

Forget the parents bit of the agreement for a moment and just focus on that.

Ok, so you refuse to work - potentially the parent will have to take time off work and might lose his/her job as a result or might lose pay / lose status within the company etc.

A good lawyer would take you to pieces for harming their client's work by refusing to care for their child... Why?

BECAUSE... your fees policy and your contract (when using Ncma ones) and your Ncma handbook states clearly what steps you will follow if you are not paid and you have breached that!

Hope that clarifies :D

venus89
24-07-2009, 07:21 AM
surely it can't be in breach of contract just to refuse to care for child until you are paid and then have him again?

It really shouldn't be, should it? :(

miffy
24-07-2009, 07:27 AM
Good letter Venus, hope it does the trick and you get your money

Miffy xx

venus89
24-07-2009, 07:30 AM
Good letter Venus, hope it does the trick and you get your money

Miffy xx

Thanks miffy
I will get my money, I know that. She always pays in the end. I just want her to start paying on time. I get so stressed when she doesn't :( xx

bibby76
24-07-2009, 07:32 AM
i once had a conversation with a parent and i basically said "how would you feel if you didnt get payed after working all week, imagine your boss messing you around this way" never had problems since:)

hope it all works out for you.

sarah

venus89
24-07-2009, 07:34 AM
Thanks Bibby.
I may have to try that :laughing:

The Juggler
24-07-2009, 07:40 AM
what if we don't terminate the contract and we DO state something in the fees policy i.e.

'if fees are overdue, you are in breach of contract and the setting has the right not to care for your child until the overdue fees are paid. However, should difficult circumstances arise causing payment problems, please discuss it as early as possible with me so we can do everything possible to avoid this situation happening'. Does that cover you legally?

They are already breaching contract by not paying on time. Surely if they do this knowing what will happen you cannot be sued for loss of earnings. What about our loss of earnings! So, we can go without food etc and they can have free childcare. So not fair:angry:

sarah707
24-07-2009, 08:04 AM
what if we don't terminate the contract and we DO state something in the fees policy i.e.

'if fees are overdue, you are in breach of contract and the setting has the right not to care for your child until the overdue fees are paid. However, should difficult circumstances arise causing payment problems, please discuss it as early as possible with me so we can do everything possible to avoid this situation happening'. Does that cover you legally?

They are already breaching contract by not paying on time. Surely if they do this knowing what will happen you cannot be sued for loss of earnings. What about our loss of earnings! So, we can go without food etc and they can have free childcare. So not fair:angry:

I'm not with the Ncma but I know someone on the forum asked them this question a while ago and posted the reply.

Their answer was unequivocal ... it's part of the way your contract is written with the parent.

The Juggler
24-07-2009, 08:16 AM
I'm not with the Ncma but I know someone on the forum asked them this question a while ago and posted the reply.

Their answer was unequivocal ... it's part of the way your contract is written with the parent.

mmm, might speak to legal helpline them myself to find out what that was. I can see that terminating without notice for this reason is breaching contract but this seems so wrong. Maybe new version of contracts have resolved it this to make if fairer. will check it out and post it.

Tinglesnark
24-07-2009, 08:36 AM
good letter, i agree with the suggested amendments too! :D sounds gooood....oh, i hope you get this resolved! x

venus89
24-07-2009, 09:31 AM
good letter, i agree with the suggested amendments too! :D sounds gooood....oh, i hope you get this resolved! x

:D Thankyou

And I hope all the others in my situation get theirs resolved too.
At least it's a lesson for future contacts....

Tatjana
24-07-2009, 10:41 AM
If you add as part of your contract that you will refuse care if fees are unpaid then you are not in breach of the contract as this is part of the contract terms and conditions.

I have added somehting similar (can terminate after fees are one week late) and it is in my fees and terms policy, I checked it with my cdo and she thought it was a good idea.

xx

ZoeAlli
24-07-2009, 10:52 AM
Your revised letter with the ammendments sounds ok, I hope it does the trick!! If not you could always use sarahs idea and ask how parent would feel!!
The last time I had to write a letter to parent/ ofsted I wrote one airing all my grievances and annoyances, so I got it out of my system before writing the one I actually sent!!!

Will check my contracts to make sure they include if payment is overdue I will refuse care until outstanding bill is paid!!

All the best with your letter venus :)

OrlandoBelle
24-07-2009, 11:25 AM
I am going through the same thing at the moment with a parent not turning up this week and not paying for it. I have written her a letter too. Will be interesting to see if we get our money. I bet I won't get mine.:mad:

Did your bank charge you for the returned cheque? If so, I hope you are adding that on top of her fees she owes! :p

The Juggler
24-07-2009, 12:06 PM
If you add as part of your contract that you will refuse care if fees are unpaid then you are not in breach of the contract as this is part of the contract terms and conditions.

I have added somehting similar (can terminate after fees are one week late) and it is in my fees and terms policy, I checked it with my cdo and she thought it was a good idea.

xx

means redoing all my current contracts though. Having said that all my parents at moment are wonderful at paying so maybe something for the future along with new policy.

thanks tatjana

venus89
24-07-2009, 04:05 PM
Well I did get half the money today without having to ask.
I never doubt that she will pay me it's just a case of when.
Those of you who think the money may never come have me upmost sympathy as I find my situation stressful enough.

Luckily I don't get charged if the cheque bounces but I certainly would add that to the fee if I did!

sarah707
24-07-2009, 08:25 PM
mmm, might speak to legal helpline them myself to find out what that was. I can see that terminating without notice for this reason is breaching contract but this seems so wrong. Maybe new version of contracts have resolved it this to make if fairer. will check it out and post it.

Thanks to Pauline's detective skills, here's a similar thread and in Tatia's post 7 posts down it clearly states ncma's standing on this!

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14874

:D

The Juggler
25-07-2009, 02:37 PM
thanks Sarah and Pauline!

The Juggler
25-07-2009, 02:43 PM
grrrr. Just had a good read of that thread.

DebbieS26 - what do you think about raising this at the next regional forum committee meeting or has it been done already and it's a legal loophole for parents?

I'm going to try to make my regional meeting too but obviously I am not on the committee and it might be difficult to add agenda items. Really think NCMA need to look at this especially in such financially stretched times. There needs to be some balance between protecting families and us CM's.

venus89
25-07-2009, 04:31 PM
I think that if somebody could stick it on the agenda and raise the issue it would be perfect......

At then end of the day the parents are signing to say that they will pay us a certain amount on a particular day and in not doing so then they are breaking the contract. It's ridiculous that childminders not being paid are legally bound to work out their notice period or else be sued by the parents.....