View Full Version : Question about NCMA register
bubbly
06-12-2007, 06:39 AM
I'm working 3 extra hours on top of my contracted hours this week. Do I include these extra hours on the NCMA register (weekly attendance record)? The register states that "the time of arrival and departure should reflect the contracted hours agreed with the parent". The 3 extra hours aren't contracted so I'm confused. If I don't include these 3 hours and the parent signs the register tomorrow, they may have a good case in any future payment disagreements. I'm sure I should include them.
LittleMissSparkles
06-12-2007, 07:43 AM
I'm working 3 extra hours on top of my contracted hours this week. Do I include these extra hours on the NCMA register (weekly attendance record)? The register states that "the time of arrival and departure should reflect the contracted hours agreed with the parent". The 3 extra hours aren't contracted so I'm confused. If I don't include these 3 hours and the parent signs the register tomorrow, they may have a good case in any future payment disagreements. I'm sure I should include them.
when i started minding i used to put the exact contracted hours down on the register, then someone told me you had to put down the exact times of arrival and departure of the children to the nearest minute ie 8.02 not 8.00 as contracted..... I am now so confused as it keeps getting contradicted I dont know whats right and what's wrong so I would also be interested in a the reply if anyone can help, if you do only put contracted hours in the registere where do you log overtime to make sure you get paid for it ......
thank you
oakie dokie
06-12-2007, 08:02 AM
hi, you have to put in time of arrival and the time depature, contracted or not. hope this helps
hazelx
I'm working 3 extra hours on top of my contracted hours this week. Do I include these extra hours on the NCMA register (weekly attendance record)? The register states that "the time of arrival and departure should reflect the contracted hours agreed with the parent". The 3 extra hours aren't contracted so I'm confused. If I don't include these 3 hours and the parent signs the register tomorrow, they may have a good case in any future payment disagreements. I'm sure I should include them.
on of the reasons we log the exact time of arrival departure is to protect our selves from allegations if anything happens to the child.
personally i cannot see what difference logging 8:02 rather then 8:00 but that's what i've been told to do too
sarah707
06-12-2007, 10:48 AM
Like ajs says... if the child arrives at 7.47am that's what you put! Regardless of contracted hours, as that's what Ofsted want to see
I can't imagine why NCMA are appearing to ask for something different...? I'd send them an email saying what we all know what Ofsted's line is (my inspector commented on it) and ask for their advice...
BTW - I often put the contracted time in my little box and arrived / departed time (exact to the minute) just above, as it makes it easier for me when I'm billing
Im obviously making a bit of a boo boo!! As Ive been putting in the hours the child is actually with me, I dod record the exact times as I read about this before. If I do an extra day one week Ive been putting that in, am I wrong? Id be interested to know what the answer is too!
Think Id better re-read all my books!!
Sam x
buildingblocks
06-12-2007, 02:10 PM
Sam
I don't know what is the right or wrong way but you will still write in the hours you are working. So if your contracted hours were say 9 - 4 and you chose to write contracted hours in the register (instead of exact hours) but say mum wanted you to work 8 - 6 one day then although not your normal hours these would still be contracted hours of a sort and I would write those hours down. Also as you have worked an extra day you would need to write that day in register as children were present. Hope that makes sense
bubbly
06-12-2007, 05:13 PM
Pleased I asked the original question as it seems I'm not the only confused person lol. I think I'm going to go with the ACTUAL times the child arrived/departed rather than the CONTRACTED hours because, as someone mentioned earlier, if the child had an accident while being transported to my house and I'd written in my register the child had already arrived, I could get accused of something I hadn't done. It makes it harder totalling up the weekly hours but at least I'm covering myself.
Has anyone ever had a parent question their bill because the totalled weekly hours in the register they've signed for don't match the contracted hours? I know the parent would've originally agreed to pay contracted hours but I just wondered if anyone had come across this before.
Just when I get one problem sorted, up pops another! :laughing:
Spangles
06-12-2007, 05:30 PM
I'm confused now too. I write down the exact times of attendance on the register which the parent signs but I charge for the contracted hours plus any over because that's the time I'm supposed to have them, not my problem if the parent arrives late or leaves early.
I can't see how anyone can complain if you do it like that?
manjay
06-12-2007, 05:40 PM
I'm confused now too. I write down the exact times of attendance on the register which the parent signs but I charge for the contracted hours plus any over because that's the time I'm supposed to have them, not my problem if the parent arrives late or leaves early.
I can't see how anyone can complain if you do it like that?
I do this too Lorri. I write the exact time and if it goes over the 2 hours minimum that the parent has already paid me I will add it to next months bill!! In the NCMA book I write the exact times but put the hours I am going to charge for iyswim!
Amanda xx
loopylu
06-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Hi there,
I used to use my ncma register, but now I have a sheet which has time in and out, and a space for signature too. I went on a course where it was highlighted that the children should be signed in and signed out.
I just did a table format, with each childs name, and an in and out box, with a box for signatures.
Hope this helps?
Lisa x
You have got us all thinking now!
My mindee comes about 8:30 and leaves aprox 5:10- but is contracted til 5:30. Because the NCMA sheet says aprox time I've not really been bothered about the odd minute. I have her either 2 or 3 days a week which I am paid for 3 days if she comes or not- What do i do in this situation as she isn't here but is billed. I'm going to ring up just to make sure
Twinkles
06-12-2007, 07:41 PM
You should put the exact times in your register - this is the one that ofsted is interested in. Then you should/could have a seperate notebook for actual contracted hours , in which you also make a note ( in front of parents) of any extra hours for your accounts.
This is a bleeding minefield now we've all started to discuss it. Im going to check in my handbook and if that makes no sense, Im going to call NCMA as I dont want to get it all wrong.
Sam x
bubbly
06-12-2007, 09:49 PM
Sam, will you let us know what NCMA say? Thanks
deeb66
06-12-2007, 10:29 PM
For some reason there seems to be an awful lot of confusion about this.
This is an Attendence Register which means regardless or whether or not you are billing the parent you should be putting in the exact time the child arrives and exact time child leaves.
You know from your contracts/paperwork what the contract hours and can therefore bill any extra time worked outside those hours. If the child is collected early then surely it doesn't matter as you bill as per the contract hours.
If you charge for 3 days a week and the parent only brings the child 2 of those days then the third will have no entry as the child has not been with you. If you are worried that you will forget to invoice for that day then devise a system whereby you would remember i.e you could write TBI (To Be Invoiced) on that day or something like that.
If you enter the contract hours and not the actual arrival and departure time you will be pulled up by Ofsted for logging incorrect information.
I hope this has made it a little clearer.
Dee
son77
06-12-2007, 10:29 PM
The way I've always looked at it is, the attendance register is filled in to the exact time they arrive & depart, irrelevant to the contracted hours as parents can come early/late or even change a day here or there.
I do not use this is a billing record as if they pick up an hour early I would not decuct money for it, but it comes in handy if they are always late as it's got their signature next to it I can bill them EXTRA!!
I put arrival time as soon as they come through the door with parent & depart time once child & parent left my house, even if that means mum has been chatting for 10 mins with me, the child is still in my house & I want to make sure I am covered for all eventualities.
I think NCMA have worded it badly, but I was lead to believe Ofsted want to know exact times when a child has been cared for.
PS when I said exact time earlier, I know I should but I don't write 7.47am I would write 7.45am, all my clocks say different times & I'm sure the parents do too!! I'll see what Ofsted say when they get round to my inspection.
smartypants
06-12-2007, 10:34 PM
You should put the exact times in your register - this is the one that ofsted is interested in. Then you should/could have a seperate notebook for actual contracted hours , in which you also make a note ( in front of parents) of any extra hours for your accounts.
Well said "Thats what i do"
buildingblocks
07-12-2007, 01:04 PM
PS when I said exact time earlier, I know I should but I don't write 7.47am I would write 7.45am, all my clocks say different times & I'm sure the parents do too!! I'll see what Ofsted say when they get round to my inspection.
The time in my house goes by the clock in the hallway - Building Blocks time - not by time on parents watch, phone, etc
love Kate
bubbly
08-12-2007, 12:37 AM
And one other thing about this bloomin' register! In my case, the dad drops the mindee off in the morning but the mum collects in the evening. So, if I get the mum to sign the register in the evening, how on earth can she sign to say the morning drop-off times are correct if she wasn't the person doing the drop-off in the first place?
Maybe I'm doing too much thinking lately. I should go to bed and stay there for a very long time lol :D :laughing:
Have a nice weekend everyone :)
sarah707
08-12-2007, 09:06 AM
Ofsted are our bosses (not NCMA) and they want to see...
... the actual time the child arrived and left.... to the nearest minute.... signed by the parent
xx
buildingblocks
09-12-2007, 10:41 AM
In my case, the dad drops the mindee off in the morning but the mum collects in the evening. So, if I get the mum to sign the register in the evening, how on earth can she sign to say the morning drop-off times are correct if she wasn't the person doing the drop-off in the first place?
This is why I went with doing a signing in and out sheet as it is signed by the person who drops off and picks up
Ive spoken to NCMA today regarding this. She said that the exact hours the child attends your setting should be entered into the Attendance register. That means if they arrive earlier or later than the contracted hours, this is the time you should enter in the register. The same goes for additional hours or days, they should also be logged in the register. As long as your contract has the contracted hours on it this will be fine. The register must have the days and times the child comes into your home logged as accurately as possible.
Hope this makes sense and puts a lot of minds at rest. Its made me feel better I know now that I was doing the right thing.
Sam xx
Spangles
11-12-2007, 03:16 PM
Thank you for that Sam. It's what I was doing anyway but I'm glad that it's now confirmed that it's right!
Heather
19-04-2008, 03:22 PM
At my inspection I was told I had breached a non existent regulation it was claimed by not recording arrivals and departures to the exact minute.Ofsted sent a letter saying i could have been prosecuted .It took months for them to remove the claim that i had failed to record times in sufficient detail and the claim i had breached a regulation from the internet.At the same time as i cried alot at the end of the inspection Ive never been prosecuted for anything before what did they do but spend months investigating if i was mentally fit.In conclusion Ofsted are bullys who have no idea how much stess they cause people to protect yourselves id say record contracted hours and as near as possible to the exact minute.I am still childmindiNG' BUT i know i could never face an inspection again Shouldnt there be a list of regullations