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clorogue
25-06-2009, 07:17 PM
Does anyone have a form for craft risk assessments or how it should be written down.

Many thanks!

Playmate
25-06-2009, 07:21 PM
Craft risk assesment????

Please don't tell me we have to wirte down a risk assesment every craft activity we do :angry:

clorogue
25-06-2009, 07:24 PM
Apparently so! I have just got an e-mail from my NCMA advisor saying to risk assessment ALL outings. That means if you go to 2 parks you have to assess two because of the different equipment and craft activities - but where do you stop!!

sweets
25-06-2009, 07:25 PM
Nah! lifes to short risk assessing crafts! lol
I don't do them.
What would it be? e.g.

Cutting out: Child may cut finger off with scissors
Action: Supervise child.


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:





Sorry! lol

clorogue
25-06-2009, 07:26 PM
Apparently they are really hot on the risk assessments!

Bananabrain
25-06-2009, 08:36 PM
I did one at Christmas when the children were making Christmas crackers from a kit because I was a bit worried about the snaps inside {'cos they were cheap!':laughing:

But not for everyday stuff.

We all need to get a grip. Just say no to this endless nonsense.

Playmate
25-06-2009, 08:45 PM
I did one at Christmas when the children were making Christmas crackers from a kit because I was a bit worried about the snaps inside {'cos they were cheap!':laughing:

But not for everyday stuff.

We all need to get a grip. Just say no to this endless nonsense.

Couldn't have said it better myself :clapping: :clapping:

Daftbat
26-06-2009, 07:18 AM
Its totally up to you whether you do ras for craft etc but i did for mine.

I covered painting, sticking etc and just noted down the possible risks just like standard RAs. Use of scissors, glue, spillages etc. It doesn't take long but as i say its up to each individual how mcuh detail you want to put in to these things. You won't get an unsatisfactory for having no craft RAs

sonia ann
26-06-2009, 07:26 AM
Its totally up to you whether you do ras for craft etc but i did for mine.

I covered painting, sticking etc and just noted down the possible risks just like standard RAs. Use of scissors, glue, spillages etc. It doesn't take long but as i say its up to each individual how mcuh detail you want to put in to these things. You won't get an unsatisfactory for having no craft RAs

I did this ..it doesn't take long and sits in my ra folder.....yes a lot of it is obvious and common sense and we all do it routinely....but to have it written down ( it only needs doing the once) provides evidence that you have thought about it and that is what inspectors like to see.....evidence:)

moogster1a
26-06-2009, 07:59 AM
NO NO NO!! Stop pandering to this ridiculous nanny state culture. DO NOT do a ra for crafts. Unless your craft sessions involve glass blowing or welding this is just ridiculous.

Playmate
26-06-2009, 08:19 AM
NO NO NO!! Stop pandering to this ridiculous nanny state culture. DO NOT do a ra for crafts. Unless your craft sessions involve glass blowing or welding this is just ridiculous.


I like where you are coming from! After reading a few of these threads I thought mmm, maybe in order to keep my outstanding I had better have something in writting, but I have decided no! I'm articulate and can explain anything verbally and confidently and I'm ready for my next inspection which is well over due, Watch this space! :D

Lady Haha
26-06-2009, 08:44 AM
NO NO NO!! Stop pandering to this ridiculous nanny state culture. DO NOT do a ra for crafts. Unless your craft sessions involve glass blowing or welding this is just ridiculous.

That did make me laugh!!! We don't do much glass blowing here! But against my principles I am gonna scurry off and do one! It's stupid, but at least it will be there if the inspector asks if I've done one.

Should we now do risk assessments for eating, I mean, the kids could choke! Or how about risk assessment for going to the toilet, they could accidentally flush themselves away! Action: call emergency plumber!

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Is this any good ?

It is not my work I was given it a long time ago but I have never used it


Angel xx

Chatterbox Childcare
26-06-2009, 09:23 AM
No where in the EYFS does it say that you have to do risk assessments other than outings - correct me if I am wrong.

I have had my inspection and it wasn't even mentioned.

This "scare mongering" is why people are fed up with the EYFS (I am not insinuating that it is you) but could you send me the email if I pm you as I am going to an NCMA weekend away and will question it.

Thanks

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 09:25 AM
No where in the EYFS does it say that you have to do risk assessments other than outings - correct me if I am wrong.

I have had my inspection and it wasn't even mentioned.

This "scare mongering" is why people are fed up with the EYFS (I am not insinuating that it is you) but could you send me the email if I pm you as I am going to an NCMA weekend away and will question it.

Thanks

I agree

Good idea to show them the email

Let us know what they say Debbie

Angel xx

clorogue
26-06-2009, 01:38 PM
No where in the EYFS does it say that you have to do risk assessments other than outings - correct me if I am wrong.

I have had my inspection and it wasn't even mentioned.

This "scare mongering" is why people are fed up with the EYFS (I am not insinuating that it is you) but could you send me the email if I pm you as I am going to an NCMA weekend away and will question it.

Thanks

I have replied to your PM

clorogue
26-06-2009, 01:47 PM
Is this any good ?

It is not my work I was given it a long time ago but I have never used it


Angel xx


Thanks Angel - I have run it off if I need to use it.

have pm'd Debbie with info

deeb66
26-06-2009, 01:52 PM
I attended the NCMA South East Regional several weeks ago and they brought in an Inspector who carries out Quality Assessments on Inspectors and trains them.

She carried out a talk on what we need to provide and also did a workshop in the afternoon and I attended both sessions.

We do not need to do risk assessments for craft activities.......we only need to risk assess our houses, carry out daily checks (although some do call this risk assessment) and for outings and that is all.

HTH

Dee
xxx

sarah707
26-06-2009, 02:23 PM
That's interesting Dee... in fact this is a really interesting debate.

I wish she would tell that to the inspector who pulled up my friend for not having a written risk assessment for the scissors a child was using during her inspection. :rolleyes:

She said it came under the Eyfs remit that we must risk assess everything the children come into contact with.

Blackhorse
26-06-2009, 02:33 PM
that is interesting reading.

I think everyone is risk assessing things with kids anyways all the time (in thoughts I mean thinking about risks, age suitability..)...supervising them, making sure they play with suitable toys etc, I don't see the need to write this down!!

I also don't see the point of doing a one of ra and the keep it in a folder for the inspector.
I thought ra's are there to keep children safe not inspectors happy!
A good inspector should be able to judge if a cm is properly caring for the kids without having hundreds and hundreds of RAs...
and if risk asessing is not part of you on a daily basis (again in the way you think and decide what is ok and what not) a piece of paper is not going to protect the child.

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 02:37 PM
That's interesting Dee... in fact this is a really interesting debate.

I wish she would tell that to the inspector who pulled up my friend for not having a written risk assessment for the scissors a child was using during her inspection. :rolleyes:

She said it came under the Eyfs remit that we must risk assess everything the children come into contact with.

Yes my friend was also told this

xxx

sarah707
26-06-2009, 02:47 PM
a piece of paper is not going to protect the child.

You are absolutely right but RAs are only there partly to protect the child.

They are also there so if the child has an accident we can prove we have risk assessed and taken all steps to keep the child safe.

They are our protection against possible litigation as well.

Twinkles
26-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Oh F..F...F..For goodness sake. That's all I have to say about that !

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 02:51 PM
You are absolutely right but RAs are only there partly to protect the child.

They are also there so if the child has an accident we can prove we have risk assessed and taken all steps to keep the child safe.

They are our protection against possible litigation as well.

What about when they go to the toilet :laughing: :laughing:

Angel xx

Blackhorse
26-06-2009, 02:53 PM
You are absolutely right but RAs are only there partly to protect the child.

They are also there so if the child has an accident we can prove we have risk assessed and taken all steps to keep the child safe.

They are our protection against possible litigation as well.

I see what you are saying and I agree.
but I said

and if risk asessing is not part of you on a daily basis (again in the way you think and decide what is ok and what not) a piece of paper is not going to protect the child.

I was trying to say that you can have all the paper work in the world but you can still fail to properly protect the kids...or just write up things to satisfy inspectors without really ''living it''

sorry I found this really hard to explain...:blush:

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 02:57 PM
I see what you are saying and I agree.
but I said


I was trying to say that you can have all the paper work in the world but you can still fail to properly protect the kids...or just write up things to satisfy inspectors without really ''living it''

sorry I found this really hard to explain...:blush:

I know what you meant

:laughing:

Angel xx

deeb66
26-06-2009, 03:03 PM
I think you will find that half the time the Inspectors do not know what they are supposed to be checking for and what not.

I have to say it is one of my bone of contentions and really aggravates me about the level of inconsistencies.

Yes I agree that we need to risk assess many things that the children come into contact with but surely that all should be in our head and as part of our routine as these sorts of things come under common sense surely......

I agree with Blackhorse in that we can have all the paperwork in the world but still fail to protect the children.

If I was put in a situation where the Inspector asked to see these sorts of risk assessments then I would state that I use common sense and ensure the children are safe and if I was penalised then I would challenge it.......

I was told quite clearly that we do not have to do them but obviously have to be able to say how we keep the children safe.

Dee
xxx

angeldelight
26-06-2009, 03:19 PM
I think you will find that half the time the Inspectors do not know what they are supposed to be checking for and what not.

I have to say it is one of my bone of contentions and really aggravates me about the level of inconsistencies.

Yes I agree that we need to risk assess many things that the children come into contact with but surely that all should be in our head and as part of our routine as these sorts of things come under common sense surely......

I agree with Blackhorse in that we can have all the paperwork in the world but still fail to protect the children.

If I was put in a situation where the Inspector asked to see these sorts of risk assessments then I would state that I use common sense and ensure the children are safe and if I was penalised then I would challenge it.......

I was told quite clearly that we do not have to do them but obviously have to be able to say how we keep the children safe.

Dee
xxx

Yep Dee I agree

What on earth happened to good old common sense anyway ?

:laughing:

Angel xx

sonia ann
26-06-2009, 05:21 PM
that is interesting reading.

I think everyone is risk assessing things with kids anyways all the time (in thoughts I mean thinking about risks, age suitability..)...supervising them, making sure they play with suitable toys etc, I don't see the need to write this down!!

I also don't see the point of doing a one of ra and the keep it in a folder for the inspector
The reason I have one is because it is one of several we did on our RA training session . At no time have I suggested we had to have one.
I thought ra's are there to keep children safe not inspectors happy!

I never said I did it to keep the inspectors happy! I agree ra's are about using common sense and keeping the children safe....all i said was that a written ra provides evidence that you have thought about it and thats the way I work.
A good inspector should be able to judge if a cm is properly caring for the kids without having hundreds and hundreds of RAs...

An inspector only has a few hours to make a judgement on the care we provide , it is a snapshot out of the whole of our provision sometimes some written evidence can help

and if risk asessing is not part of you on a daily basis (again in the way you think and decide what is ok and what not) a piece of paper is not going to protect the child.

No of course it won't, i never suggested it would




I know that we don't have to do a lot of RA's but as long as we have the ones that are required it is upto the individual to choose if they want to do any extra ones.

One can use the same argument about the self evaluation form....it is not compulsory and we all self evaluate all the time and review our practices and change / develop as necessary....but if we choose to fill in the form it provides written evidence about our practice which enables the inspector to have a broader view of our setting and practice

Blackhorse
26-06-2009, 05:51 PM
I know that we don't have to do a lot of RA's but as long as we have the ones that are required it is upto the individual to choose if they want to do any extra ones.

One can use the same argument about the self evaluation form....it is not compulsory and we all self evaluate all the time and review our practices and change / develop as necessary....but if we choose to fill in the form it provides written evidence about our practice which enables the inspector to have a broader view of our setting and practice

Sorry Sonia Ann, I never posted this as reply to your question. I did not suggest you did any of the things I posted..

oh dear..I will keep away from this thread now as I am having a hard time expressing myself and I don't want to offend either..

sonia ann
26-06-2009, 06:30 PM
Sorry Sonia Ann, I never posted this as reply to your question. I did not suggest you did any of the things I posted..

oh dear..I will keep away from this thread now as I am having a hard time expressing myself and I don't want to offend either..

i'm sorry as well nicole...I think I just jumped in as I felt it was aimed at me....I think at the end of the day we are all saying the same thing....that common sense should rule and it does and we are all doing our best for the children in our care and if some of us choose to record it differently to others then that is fine too.....so don't stay away because i took it personally...thats my problem not yours:blush:

The Juggler
26-06-2009, 06:53 PM
Craft risk assesment????

Please don't tell me we have to wirte down a risk assesment every craft activity we do :angry:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: was just thinking same!

The Juggler
26-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Nah! lifes to short risk assessing crafts! lol
I don't do them.
What would it be? e.g.

Cutting out: Child may cut finger off with scissors
Action: Supervise child.


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:




Sorry! lol


surely your risk assessment overall statements would cover this such as appropriate supervision and guidance when using scissors, paints without actually talking about each activity.

The Juggler
26-06-2009, 07:00 PM
That's interesting Dee... in fact this is a really interesting debate.

I wish she would tell that to the inspector who pulled up my friend for not having a written risk assessment for the scissors a child was using during her inspection. :rolleyes:

She said it came under the Eyfs remit that we must risk assess everything the children come into contact with.


but surely we have done this by saying in our overall risk assessment policy/statement that we will ensure children's equipment is checked for safety/broken bits and that we will ensure supervision at all times. In doing that you have risk assessed that the scissors is not broken and that you will ensure they don't injure themselves.

My inspector told me a written statement signed once a year and then altered and signed in between (subject to changes arising or incidents) is sufficient. If another inspector brings me up on this I will be quoting first inspector. She did not even say I had to risk assess each outing separately. I have a policy which states what I'll do in parks/other types of outing but not for each one specifically.

clorogue
26-06-2009, 07:13 PM
Sometimes how are we supposed to get our act together when Ofsted haven't. Yes I agree it is commonsense (but one could argue that there are different levels of commonsense). I suppose it covers us for what the inspector want to see and we have thought it out. How I have managed for the last 13 years I don't know!!!:D :D :D :D

Playmate
26-06-2009, 07:59 PM
Sometimes how are we supposed to get our act together when Ofsted haven't. Yes I agree it is commonsense (but one could argue that there are different levels of commonsense). I suppose it covers us for what the inspector want to see and we have thought it out. How I have managed for the last 13 years I don't know!!!:D :D :D :D

My thoughts exactly :laughing: :laughing:
When I first started minding 16 yrs ago I so wanted to see more regulation, I knew some dreadful childminders. Over the years I have welcomed and embraced the many changes. Unfortunately now I can see this profession going the same way as my previous one - When I trained as an RGN we were taught to nurse and then gradularly more and more was paper orientated and in many areas the standard of nursing care just dropped and dropped. I had to get out because I couldn't bare to work in this way. I really do think its more important that we can demonstrate our skills to the inspector. Some people could have all the pieces of paper in the world, but not put it into practise.

I have worried so much i the last couple of months that I might loose my Outstanding grading, but I have decided now that I have improved so much more in the last 3.5 years (not just with paper work) and I will argue with any inspector who thinks otherwise and I will take it higher if they try and mark me down.

So bring it on Mrs Ofsted :D

Blackhorse
26-06-2009, 08:29 PM
i'm sorry as well nicole...I think I just jumped in as I felt it was aimed at me....I think at the end of the day we are all saying the same thing....that common sense should rule and it does and we are all doing our best for the children in our care and if some of us choose to record it differently to others then that is fine too.....so don't stay away because i took it personally...thats my problem not yours:blush:

no worries!! :)

clorogue
26-06-2009, 09:10 PM
My thoughts exactly :laughing: :laughing:
When I first started minding 16 yrs ago I so wanted to see more regulation, I knew some dreadful childminders. Over the years I have welcomed and embraced the many changes. Unfortunately now I can see this profession going the same way as my previous one - When I trained as an RGN we were taught to nurse and then gradularly more and more was paper orientated and in many areas the standard of nursing care just dropped and dropped. I had to get out because I couldn't bare to work in this way. I really do think its more important that we can demonstrate our skills to the inspector. Some people could have all the pieces of paper in the world, but not put it into practise.

I have worried so much i the last couple of months that I might loose my Outstanding grading, but I have decided now that I have improved so much more in the last 3.5 years (not just with paper work) and I will argue with any inspector who thinks otherwise and I will take it higher if they try and mark me down.

So bring it on Mrs Ofsted :D

Exactly!!! I find that more and more and more!!!! things are cropping up, that's why the EYFS has got a bad name (it is good in many ways) and it is nice for us to be treated more seriously too. I am not sure where it is going to end I saw on the forum Lifestyle Policy (what is that!!!!) you could go on and on with policies and risk assessments. I was thinking today maybe I need a parking meter policy/risk assessment while I park the car and take the children out of the car and get a ticket whilst cars are moving around - what do you think:laughing: ;) :laughing: !!!!!!!! Maybe I should do a Sainsburys/Waitrose/Tesco Policy/risk assessment or what about a Pet Shop Policy/risk assessment!!!!

Chatterbox Childcare
26-06-2009, 09:18 PM
Exactly!!! I find that more and more and more!!!! things are cropping up, that's why the EYFS has got a bad name (it is good in many ways) and it is nice for us to be treated more seriously too. I am not sure where it is going to end I saw on the forum Lifestyle Policy (what is that!!!!) you could go on and on with policies and risk assessments. I was thinking today maybe I need a parking meter policy/risk assessment while I park the car and take the children out of the car and get a ticket whilst cars are moving around - what do you think:laughing: ;) :laughing: !!!!!!!! Maybe I should do a Sainsburys/Waitrose/Tesco Policy/risk assessment or what about a Pet Shop Policy/risk assessment!!!!

Don't laugh but you should have these as they are outings!

clorogue
26-06-2009, 09:41 PM
Debbie

I have done lots of assessments on outings to town/library/toddlers/woods etc but not all individual shops like shoe shop/bakers/party shop etc....... surely not each shop!!:laughing:

Playmate
27-06-2009, 06:22 PM
Exactly!!! I find that more and more and more!!!! things are cropping up, that's why the EYFS has got a bad name (it is good in many ways) and it is nice for us to be treated more seriously too. I am not sure where it is going to end I saw on the forum Lifestyle Policy (what is that!!!!) you could go on and on with policies and risk assessments. I was thinking today maybe I need a parking meter policy/risk assessment while I park the car and take the children out of the car and get a ticket whilst cars are moving around - what do you think:laughing: ;) :laughing: !!!!!!!! Maybe I should do a Sainsburys/Waitrose/Tesco Policy/risk assessment or what about a Pet Shop Policy/risk assessment!!!!

I saw this too, but by that point was too exhausted to find out :laughing: As for supermarkets I just won't admit to going. If I don't write it down who's to know? I have one for walking to the local shops as far as I' concerned that is ENOUGH!
I'm just going to get on with physically keeping these children safe which in my opinion means keeping your eyes open and using your noddle! :D

julie w
27-06-2009, 06:26 PM
NO NO NO!! Stop pandering to this ridiculous nanny state culture. DO NOT do a ra for crafts. Unless your craft sessions involve glass blowing or welding this is just ridiculous.

Thank goodness, someone who feels the same as me.:D

clorogue
27-06-2009, 07:47 PM
I saw this too, but by that point was too exhausted to find out :laughing: As for supermarkets I just won't admit to going. If I don't write it down who's to know? I have one for walking to the local shops as far as I' concerned that is ENOUGH!
I'm just going to get on with physically keeping these children safe which in my opinion means keeping your eyes open and using your noddle! :D

Sally that did make me laugh - using your noddle! I do find that trying to finding out information, sourcing, working out the format etc is starting to take over many of my thoughts! It is not the filling in, it is not knowing whether you are doing the correct thing or not and all that goes with it (and that definitely is not for the lack of support you guys give me - you are priceless). Oh I do think of the days when i didn't have all this and I really really enjoyed the children!

John
27-06-2009, 08:07 PM
I think i've mentioned this a cupple of time, like a few of you said you don't need a risk assesment for every thing just think of the amount of paper and storage you would need:panic: i have risks assesments for my home and outdoors activities, and a tick list i do before a child or children come, this includes arts and crafts. But just done one on taking older children out fishing as you got the tides, fishing hooks (use barbless hooks) where were going etc.

John.