PDA

View Full Version : apologising



Helen79
16-06-2009, 10:22 AM
I was just wondering what age you expect children to start to apologise for unwanted behaviour & what age they actually understand it?
Also what do you do if a child refuses to apologise?

sarah707
16-06-2009, 11:07 AM
I never ask a child to apologise!

You are putting them in a corner from which there is no escape if they refuse to comply... and it often just makes the situation worse.

Instead I make it clear that their behaviour is not acceptable and I apologise on their behalf.

hth :D

aly
16-06-2009, 11:10 AM
I was told at my behaviour management course, not to make them say it as it's not them saying it but you putting words in their mouth!.

Helen79
16-06-2009, 11:13 AM
Thanks Sarah thats kind of what what I've been thinking but dd is getting upset when she always apologises but mindee never says sorry to her when he has hit her, he is a lot younger but I've been trying to encourage saying sorry as he does at home.

How do you encourage children to take responsibility for their behaviour & understand that it''s nice to say sorry?

Helen79
16-06-2009, 11:16 AM
sorry cross posts, thanks Aly aswell.
How do I explain to dd about him not saying sorry? She thinks he has 'got away with it' & ends up more upset.

sweets
16-06-2009, 11:22 AM
If children are at an age where the understand what they are doing then i ask them to say sorry but if they don't then usually say 'ok i will say sorry for you this time as its the polite thing to do when you have hurt someone and it make ? feel better' Never back yourself into a corner by insisting they say it, i have done this before and believe me they always win! lol

Blackhorse
16-06-2009, 12:33 PM
I have to confess that I am a bit surprised to read this..

I was always brought up in a way that I had to say please, thank you and I had to apologise and to be honest that's how I think it should be..

So if we don't ask children to apologise how will they learn to apologise? What do they suggest at the behaviour management courses?

pls don't think I am criticising I am reading, learning wondering and want to know more!!

sarah707
16-06-2009, 12:43 PM
At behaviour management courses they say that you must not make a child apologise... positive behaviour management is about praising the good, not criticising a child.

It's not about backing a child into a corner or forcing him to say words he doesn't mean or making him feel small by talking to him in anything other than a positive way.

At my dp's school recently he was told not to expect or ask children to say please or thank you in the lunch queue as they might see it as a negative and a reason not to have lunches!!

The world might have gone mad but if you want to do what the latest advice says, then I would suggest you put yourself on a course. It was quite an eye opener for me!! :D

Helen79
16-06-2009, 12:44 PM
I was always brought up in a way that I had to say please, thank you and I had to apologise and to be honest that's how I think it should be..

So if we don't ask children to apologise how will they learn to apologise? What do they suggest at the behaviour management courses?

I'm the same which is why I'm looking for new strategies after backing myself into a corner several times with one mindee with neither of us refusing to budge & making the situation 10x worse than it needed to be :(

dd has always been asked to apologise & always has, ds (18months) has started signing sorry already (I'm well aware he hasn't got a clue what he's doing, he just likes to look cute lol)

so I'm not sure what to do now with the mindee who refuses to say sorry or even acknowledge he has done anything wrong.

It's more that dd is getting upset that he hasn't said sorry, rather than me trying to punish him for hitting iyswim.

Helen79
16-06-2009, 12:51 PM
sorry Sarah, crossed posts again. Thanks for explaining.

I totally agree but how do children learn manners then if no one expects them to say sorry, please & thank you? Surely it's not negative to politely ask a child to say thank you.
I expect all my children to say please & thank you & it's one of the first signs both my children have learnt (mainly to stop them uh uh ing it at me whenever they want something though)

I've done the positive behaviour course but sometimes I forget & have to take a step back & assess how I approach certain behaviour. This is one of them.

I'll try a different approach tomorrow when he comes & just hope he doesn't hit dd

Blackhorse
16-06-2009, 12:51 PM
At behaviour management courses they say that you must not make a child apologise... positive behaviour management is about praising the good, not criticising a child.

It's not about backing a child into a corner or forcing him to say words he doesn't mean or making him feel small by talking to him in anything other than a positive way.

At my dp's school recently he was told not to expect or ask children to say please or thank you in the lunch queue as they might see it as a negative and a reason not to have lunches!!

The world might have gone mad but if you want to do what the latest advice says, then I would suggest you put yourself on a course. It was quite an eye opener for me!! :D

Thanks Sarah.
I think I will find out if there are any courses around in my area
I fully agree with praising good behaviour, but does this mean we shouldn't tell them off for anything ? And yes, I think the world has got mad...:rolleyes:

~Chelle~
16-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Well that is just crazy!!! No wonder there are so many rude children about.

If a minded child does something wrong, they are told that it is wrong and I ask them "what do you say" and straight away they will say sorry, because they know that this is what they are meant to do.

If they do not say please and thank you, I always ask "what do you say" and they will say "please" or "thank you" because they know that this is the right thing to do.

I always work with the parents in regards to this and ask what they do at home and usually they always tend to do the same as me.

I always praise good behaviour so it is not always being negative.

I think that most of these courses have really "far out" views - in MY opinion children need to be taught manners and saying sorry for their actions is part of that, it was how I was brought up too. A lot of courses now contradict things that we have been told in the past.

My sons always comment on children who dont say sorry or please or thank you and say that they are rude for not doing so.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting - written things always come across that way - doh!:blush:

Ben10mad
16-06-2009, 12:57 PM
I have to confess that I am a bit surprised to read this..

I was always brought up in a way that I had to say please, thank you and I had to apologise and to be honest that's how I think it should be..

So if we don't ask children to apologise how will they learn to apologise? What do they suggest at the behaviour management courses?

pls don't think I am criticising I am reading, learning wondering and want to know more!!



Im the same always been brought up to say please, thank you and sorry.
All my minded children have been with me from a young age so i started early learning them whats right from wrong, dont get me wrong they all have there moments, but i.e if to say a child hit a another child whist in my care all i would have to do is look at them and say now thats not exceptable, and they would apologise i wouldn't have to say, say sorry for what you have done. Quite lucky really lol

~Chelle~
16-06-2009, 12:57 PM
Sorry, forgot to add that if the child keeps hitting your daughter, have a word with the parents to see what they do at home if he mis-behaves, they might handle a situation differently to you.xx

Blackhorse
16-06-2009, 12:57 PM
pretty much my thoughts Chelle...

~Chelle~
16-06-2009, 01:20 PM
pretty much my thoughts Chelle...

Phew, glad I am not alone.

Half these courses make you feel so inadequate - I hate feeling so scrutinised and left feeling that I am incompetent.:angry:

I have my own children and know right from wrong so is it so bad to teach children manners?

The world has gone mad :eek:

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Obviously talking about certain issues helps and if one child hit another we would have a discussion about why they did it and how it made the other person feel.
However!! Repeated physical behaiour like that is rewarded with a time out and I dont give a :censored: what a behaviour management class says about that, this is my house and I will not tolerate certain behaviours.

I'm the same which is why I'm looking for new strategies after backing myself into a corner several times with one mindee with neither of us refusing to budge & making the situation 10x worse than it needed to be

Gotta say, this would be one of those behaviours. I guess Im pretty old school but I would absolutely not be having a child arguing with me unless it was a valid debate.

Lastly, I do expect the children to speak to me and everybody else with respect. That includes your pleases, thank yous and sorrys.

Oooh, Im so old-school!!

Sx

atmkids
16-06-2009, 02:00 PM
Have to say I agree with Chelle on this one. Manners cost nothing and to not say sorry is basically bad manners. I even teach my children that you should still say sorry if it was an accident as this helps towards making the other child feel better and prevent bad feeling between them. I now know to avoid any behaviour management courses as I'm very proud to have brought up 3 children with good manners who get plenty of praise for good behaviour. At the end of the day what they're teaching now will probably be 'out of fashion' in the future. Sorry for the rant but I feel very strongly about this.

Minstrel
16-06-2009, 02:20 PM
Well that is just crazy!!! No wonder there are so many rude children about.

If a minded child does something wrong, they are told that it is wrong and I ask them "what do you say" and straight away they will say sorry, because they know that this is what they are meant to do.

If they do not say please and thank you, I always ask "what do you say" and they will say "please" or "thank you" because they know that this is the right thing to do.

I always work with the parents in regards to this and ask what they do at home and usually they always tend to do the same as me.

I always praise good behaviour so it is not always being negative.

I think that most of these courses have really "far out" views - in MY opinion children need to be taught manners and saying sorry for their actions is part of that, it was how I was brought up too. A lot of courses now contradict things that we have been told in the past.

My sons always comment on children who dont say sorry or please or thank you and say that they are rude for not doing so.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting - written things always come across that way - doh!:blush:

Agree with every word here!

I'm definitely a positive parent. My children are both well behaved and have lots of confidence. They are always praised for their wonderful manners and they see it as something to be proud of.

I dont 'force' them to and i dont' back myself into a corner when they don;t want but i do teach it from birth really. I use please thank you excuse me sorry etc etc from when they are tiny and it becomes second nature to them.

I speak to them exactly how i would like to be spoken to myself with regards to manners and i don't see how mutual respect can be regarded as negative parenting.

As above - this is world gone mad and we wonder why we are getting rude teenagers!

Pipsqueak
16-06-2009, 02:21 PM
I always tell the children what it was that wasn't acceptable and then I suggest that its would be nice to offer and apology. Its rare that I demand an apology (ok perhaps with my own kids lol) as I feel that sometimes by telling they have to say sorry then it might not mean anything - after all its just a word isn't it. I try to get it across to kids that the 'right thing to do or the nice thing to do' would be to say sorry I didn't mean to do xyz (smack you over the head with the wooden hammer 3 times just to see what sort of noise it would make:laughing: )

I must admit, I won't say sorry to someone if I am feeling particuarly mutinous - even if I know I am in the wrong and I know that I would be wrong to say it unless I meant it. Sorry (lol) if I am not making sense here. Generally when I have calmed down a bit I do apologise and its heartfelt.

Yes I expect children to treat others as they wish to be treated and manners cost nothing do they.

Daftbat
16-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Agree with every word here! (reShnakes post!)
I'm definitely a positive parent. My children are both well behaved and have lots of confidence. They are always praised for their wonderful manners and they see it as something to be proud of.

I dont 'force' them to and i dont' back myself into a corner when they don;t want but i do teach it from birth really. I use please thank you excuse me sorry etc etc from when they are tiny and it becomes second nature to them.

I speak to them exactly how i would like to be spoken to myself with regards to manners and i don't see how mutual respect can be regarded as negative parenting.

As above - this is world gone mad and we wonder why we are getting rude teenagers!

Can i join the "I agree" club too?

I insist on pleases and thank yous from as soon as children are able to say them. I explain about unacceptable behaviour but if a child can talk they can say sorry too. If no "sorry" was forthcoming then i would do a time out as i see it as unacceptable behaviour not to say sorry.

Helen79
16-06-2009, 05:45 PM
I insist on pleases and thank yous from as soon as children are able to say them. I explain about unacceptable behaviour but if a child can talk they can say sorry too. If no "sorry" was forthcoming then i would do a time out as i see it as unacceptable behaviour not to say sorry.

Do you expect the child to say sorry after time out aswell?
What do you do if a child who can talk refuses to say please & thank you? do you withhold whatever they were asking for?
I'm really struggling with 1 child you refuses to say please, thank you or sorry, I know he can say it but ignores me when asked, I think it's his way of being assertive.
I obviously can't make him say it but the others are expected too so it's ending up with 1 rule for him & 1 for everyone else & my daughter is getting v confused.

Pudding Girl
16-06-2009, 05:56 PM
I also don't see point in forcing children to say sorry, they don't mean it.

I say something along the lines of lets give x a cuddle to say sorry - that satisfys the "victim's" need I think without forcing an unmeant apology and/or a stand off :panic: :rolleyes: .

Mollymop
16-06-2009, 06:00 PM
Well that is just crazy!!! No wonder there are so many rude children about.

If a minded child does something wrong, they are told that it is wrong and I ask them "what do you say" and straight away they will say sorry, because they know that this is what they are meant to do.

If they do not say please and thank you, I always ask "what do you say" and they will say "please" or "thank you" because they know that this is the right thing to do.

I always work with the parents in regards to this and ask what they do at home and usually they always tend to do the same as me.

I always praise good behaviour so it is not always being negative.

I think that most of these courses have really "far out" views - in MY opinion children need to be taught manners and saying sorry for their actions is part of that, it was how I was brought up too. A lot of courses now contradict things that we have been told in the past.

My sons always comment on children who dont say sorry or please or thank you and say that they are rude for not doing so.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting - written things always come across that way - doh!:blush:

I defo agree with you Chelle

I ask the children to appologise from the moment the understand the word. it is teaching them to have good manners and to polite to others.

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm really struggling with 1 child you refuses to say please, thank you or sorry, I know he can say it but ignores me when asked, I think it's his way of being assertive.

If they are asking for something, you dont give it until they say please. Its not difficult and they will quickly get the message.
If they dont say thank you I would explain quite firmly why they should be saying thank you and that they wont be getting whatever it is next time if they cant be bothered to say thank you. If it was something really special that they are not thanking you for I would actually take it off them until they said it. (Say you had bought them a sweet or something.)
No sorry = you are arguing with me. See my previous post. Ditto children who think its amusing to say "NO".

lets give x a cuddle to say sorry
I would personally rather spit out an apology than have to cuddle someone. I also feel that, as our job is to bring the children up to be well adjusted adults, its more appropriate to use a word than physical contact. Also, if someone had just hit me the last thing I would want to do is hug them. Just my thoughts. :)

I sound like a right meanie, dont I?!

Sx

georgie456
16-06-2009, 06:49 PM
Well that is just crazy!!! No wonder there are so many rude children about.

If a minded child does something wrong, they are told that it is wrong and I ask them "what do you say" and straight away they will say sorry, because they know that this is what they are meant to do.

If they do not say please and thank you, I always ask "what do you say" and they will say "please" or "thank you" because they know that this is the right thing to do.

I always work with the parents in regards to this and ask what they do at home and usually they always tend to do the same as me.

I always praise good behaviour so it is not always being negative.

I think that most of these courses have really "far out" views - in MY opinion children need to be taught manners and saying sorry for their actions is part of that, it was how I was brought up too. A lot of courses now contradict things that we have been told in the past.

My sons always comment on children who dont say sorry or please or thank you and say that they are rude for not doing so.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting - written things always come across that way - doh!:blush:

Another one here who thinks manners are very important!

I use the praise good, ignore unwanted behaviour way of thinking, however, depending on age and understanding children are expected to say please, thankyou and sorry.

Chelle - you could have been describing my children above! Even my 20mth old mindee knows that when he is offered anything he says "ta". If he doesn't a "what do you say?" is enough prompt for him.

I am proud of the children I mind, precisely for the reason that I know I don't have to apologise for them or remind them to use their please's and thankyou's.

I read an article recently that said nearly 50% of under 30yr olds in a survey thought saying please and thankyou was not important these days - I think that is actually quite shocking.

I'd like to add that this thread has made interesting reading!:D

uf353432
16-06-2009, 07:07 PM
Both my feet are promptly planted in the manners brigade. I also teach it from birth with my own kids and with mindees, I always prompt a thankyou, please or sorry if one is not forthcoming. With younger tots, I ensure I use my manners with them - so when I hand them food, I say Ta and they copy back. When there are spats - which happen - I explain that the behaviour is not acceptable, link to a time when they have been hurt by someone else, ask them how they felt and reason with them on how the victim might be feeling now. I then expect them to say sorry. With children who won't say sorry I ask them to go and sit away from the situation, chill out and when think about their actions, and when they are ready to say sorry to come out. They determine the length of time they sit away from people for not me. There is always lots of praise when people use good manners in my house. See the way I see it any minded child is living in my home - I cannot be different to minded children than I am with my own kids in many respects - it would create a divide - so its more harmonious if they all follow the same rulebook.

helenlc
16-06-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm really struggling with 1 child you refuses to say please, thank you or sorry, I know he can say it but ignores me when asked, I think it's his way of being assertive.

If they are asking for something, you dont give it until they say please. Its not difficult and they will quickly get the message.
If they dont say thank you I would explain quite firmly why they should be saying thank you and that they wont be getting whatever it is next time if they cant be bothered to say thank you. If it was something really special that they are not thanking you for I would actually take it off them until they said it. (Say you had bought them a sweet or something.)
No sorry = you are arguing with me. See my previous post. Ditto children who think its amusing to say "NO".

lets give x a cuddle to say sorry
I would personally rather spit out an apology than have to cuddle someone. I also feel that, as our job is to bring the children up to be well adjusted adults, its more appropriate to use a word than physical contact. Also, if someone had just hit me the last thing I would want to do is hug them. Just my thoughts. :)

I sound like a right meanie, dont I?!

Sx

Then I am a meanie too!!!:laughing:

I'm sorry but I will go along with some things but this whole not saying Sorry etc is pants.

I always spoke to my children even as babies and used Please Thank you, Excuse me, Sorry etc and they are forever being complimented on their manners and politeness.

I do not generally say things to people in the street and keep my head down. But if my children mind out of the way for somebody and they do not say Thank you to my children, then I have been known to say (somewhat sarcastically and very loudly!) THANK YOU!!! It annoys me that they (and old people are the worst) moan about the generation of today not being polite and courteous and then they do not say Please and Thank you to them. (Rant over - one of my pet hates!!)

Children in my care (2 yrs old up to almost 11) are expected to say Please, Thank You, Excuse me, Sorry etc. My son was calling to the 10 yr old the other day and the 10 yr old was ignoring him. I said to him When someone is calling your name, its polite to answer them.

I am going to pass up the Behaviour Management thing too!!!

Pudding Girl
16-06-2009, 08:49 PM
Sorry is the only thing I feel this way about I have to clarify. please and thank you etc are expected!

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 09:28 PM
hen I am a meanie too!!!

Thank god!! We can be meanies together then!! :D

Sx

mushpea
16-06-2009, 09:29 PM
when my mindees (or my kids) upset somone else then they are sent to the stairs for 'thinking time' i then speak to them about their behaviour and ask them 'what do you think you should do now', 9 times out of 10 they say that they should say sorry, if they dont come to this conclusion then I stear them in the right direction, this is age appropriate and for the younger ones who wouldnt grasp the above then i tell them to give a hug to say sorry cause it wasnt nice behaviour.
as for please if they dont say it then i say pardon untill they think to say please or whats the magic word which works most time and as for thanks if i am giving them they take hold of it but i also keep hold of untill they remember to say thankyou/ta , or if not i say ' what do you need to say?',
Manners are important to me, i was brought up with them and do where my kids but the amount of people these days both young and old that dont have manners is shocking, noone is this town can say excuse me, they would rather shove you out of the way or run you over with their trolleys than say excuse me, nor can people say thanks, the amount of times me and the kids have stood to one side and let people past and they dont say thankyou. I get really annoyed when people are so rude cause i spend a lot of time and take pride in the fact i have tought the children manners.

aly
16-06-2009, 09:37 PM
On the course the woman said [and i agree from experience] that if you make a child say sorry it doesn't mean anything...they will go and repeat it and 'say sorry' just because YOU want them to not because THEY should.

1 tactic she used and worked was if the 1 child hit another she made that child sit by the side of her whie she comforted the 'victim' saying things like oooh I bet that hurt, I'm sorry you were hurt' etc and that usualy made the other child realise they were wrong and they would apologise....not pushed into saying sorry and not meaning it.

It's got nothign to do with manners. you are telling that child to be sorry when they probably aren't!!

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 10:22 PM
But Aly - how do they know the word sorry if they hve never heard it, or told that it is appropriate in cvertain situations?

And besides - so ****** what if they dont really feel it? How many times have you, or I or anybody else on this planet had to apologise for something that we are really not sorry about? What terrible thing has befallen us for saying the word, a simple word - sorry? Im guessing nothing. Its a very basic social skill to be able to apologise even when you dont feel like you are truly sorry.

While Im all for positive behaviour management (and I really am!!) I really dont see what benefit this naby pamby cushiony culture we are fostering in our children is going to achieve. So little Johnny doesnt have to feel bad about saying sorry cos he hit another kid? Tough ****** luck, son, you shouldnt have hit her in the first place.

S.

aly
16-06-2009, 10:25 PM
But Aly - how do they know the word sorry if they hve never heard it, or told that it is appropriate in cvertain situations?

And besides - so ****** what if they dont really feel it? How many times have you, or I or anybody else on this planet had to apologise for something that we are really not sorry about? What terrible thing has befallen us for saying the word, a simple word - sorry? Im guessing nothing. Its a very basic social skill to be able to apologise even when you dont feel like you are truly sorry.

While Im all for positive behaviour management (and I really am!!) I really dont see what benefit this naby pamby cushiony culture we are fostering in our children is going to achieve. So little Johnny doesnt have to feel bad about saying sorry cos he hit another kid? Tough ****** luck, son, you shouldnt have hit her in the first place.

S.
thats the difference with being a child/adult YOU know the difference...not all children do

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 10:27 PM
Re-reading my last post...I swear too much!! They are both B words though, nothing totally awful!!

Sx

aly
16-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Re-reading my last post...I swear too much!! They are both B words though, nothing totally awful!!

Sx

I did notice

Schnakes
16-06-2009, 10:52 PM
Luckily we are all adults here and Im sure you can handle a few ** though. Not really the end of the world, is it?! :littleangel:

thats the difference with being a child/adult YOU know the difference...not all children do

Not sure what you are referring to here? The highlighted bit? If that is the case then I would say yeah - and thats where the discussion comes in. But it is still a social skill to apologise. Otherwise what are we doing? Letting the sitation stagnate? Letting children feel that they dont have to apolgise for poor behaviour? I think not.

Sx

The Juggler
17-06-2009, 07:05 AM
Luckily we are all adults here and Im sure you can handle a few ** though. Not really the end of the world, is it?! :littleangel:

thats the difference with being a child/adult YOU know the difference...not all children do

Not sure what you are referring to here? The highlighted bit? If that is the case then I would say yeah - and thats where the discussion comes in. But it is still a social skill to apologise. Otherwise what are we doing? Letting the sitation stagnate? Letting children feel that they dont have to apolgise for poor behaviour? I think not.

Sx


I totally agree. They need to know it's right to apologise to the other person, whether they mean it or not. They don't need to say it they can show it with a rub, a cuddle or say it. What is important for older children that they begin to understand why it is wrong and if they can tell you they shouldn't do it because 'it hurts', 'it'll break' then they are able to say sorry.

If they are not taught how will they learn! Lovely adults they will be.

atmkids
17-06-2009, 07:16 AM
thats the difference with being a child/adult YOU know the difference...not all children do

that's why it's our job to teach them, sometimes with a little gentle persuasion so that they DO learn the difference and grow into respectful adults.

Bushpig
17-06-2009, 07:54 AM
Well that is just crazy!!! No wonder there are so many rude children about.

If a minded child does something wrong, they are told that it is wrong and I ask them "what do you say" and straight away they will say sorry, because they know that this is what they are meant to do.

If they do not say please and thank you, I always ask "what do you say" and they will say "please" or "thank you" because they know that this is the right thing to do.

I always work with the parents in regards to this and ask what they do at home and usually they always tend to do the same as me.

I always praise good behaviour so it is not always being negative.

I think that most of these courses have really "far out" views - in MY opinion children need to be taught manners and saying sorry for their actions is part of that, it was how I was brought up too. A lot of courses now contradict things that we have been told in the past.

My sons always comment on children who dont say sorry or please or thank you and say that they are rude for not doing so.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting - written things always come across that way - doh!:blush:

I agree with you, this is what I do too. We have to teach the kids about 'please' and 'thank you'... manners do not automatically happen. Sometimes they need a gentle remind. My mindees are so well behaved and respectful when out - I get loads of comments on it I have to say, and this is because from day 1 I am firm about manners and treating eachother with respect. And saying sorry is a basic good manner to have.

balloon
17-06-2009, 07:57 AM
I've only seen this thread this morning but have read through with interest.

Personally, I'm not sure I see how the latest behaviour management scheme (ie not teaching children to apologise or use manners etc) fits in with the Every Child Matter's 'Making a Positive Contribution'.

How can children make a positive contribution if they are rude and /or think it's ok to act out or hurt somebody and not apologise for their behaviour? How do they learn it is unacceptable if they are not taught this either by example or by teaching and example alongside if example alone does not work?

I've raised my own children to say please, thank you and sorry. I do the same with minded children and whilst I would never 'force' a child to apologise I do think it's the moral thing for them to do and they would be asked to sit away and think about how the other person/animal/whatever would be feeling and come back to me when they were ready to talk about it.

Just my thoughts... :littleangel:

PixiePetal
17-06-2009, 08:08 AM
My children and mindees are all expected/encouraged to say sorry with an explanation of why we say it and how it makes people feel. It is basic manners along with please, thank you and excuse me, etc.

All part of the learning journey.

My teens, although a bit mouthy at home with me, have never let me down in public or given me any reason to think they will. At home I expect them to appologise when they have been mouthy and we move on. This has been done from an early age.

mandy moo
17-06-2009, 09:03 AM
Intresting thread..
I too belive in morals and good manners, and cannot belive its thought detrimental to a child to have to say please, thankyou, sorry, excuse me etc, it is just unbelivable:eek:
I too have been brought up to say my P&Qs etc and that is how I bring my 2 up and the children that I mind.
As with pixie petal my 2 being under 10, still have too be reminded sometimes, but when we're out Im often told how good/ what lovley manners etc they have, especially if we go out to eat, they are not allowed to run around causing havoc, they stay in their chairs.
I also have this thing about, mainly adults unfortunatly, not saying thankyou when my child holds a door open for them, so rude:( , I too in a loud voice will say 'thankyou' after those adults,
and I bet its those adults, that go on about how rude etc the younger generation is, well what do you expect..doh

FussyElmo
17-06-2009, 09:08 AM
I firmly believe that manners cost nothing I do insist on please and thank you. But I dont insist on sorry. If a child does something wrong and wont apologise they are reprimanded for the behaviour not the lack of apologising.

I personally think that some children say sorry because they think they wont be in trouble, they dont mean it so its worthless and the behaviour is done again and again.

I would sooner have the apology later on in the day when they realise the behaviour was unacceptable.

However its up to you I think I have very well mannered children and am often complimented on them but this way works for me its not everyone way of working:)

FizzysFriends
17-06-2009, 09:44 AM
I have to agree with children being taught manners. That includes please, thank you, sorry, excuse me, holding doors open for others.

Daftbat
17-06-2009, 10:30 AM
Do you expect the child to say sorry after time out aswell?
What do you do if a child who can talk refuses to say please & thank you? do you withhold whatever they were asking for?I'm really struggling with 1 child you refuses to say please, thank you or sorry, I know he can say it but ignores me when asked, I think it's his way of being assertive.
I obviously can't make him say it but the others are expected too so it's ending up with 1 rule for him & 1 for everyone else & my daughter is getting v confused.

Basically yes. Obviously you have to make judgement calls but if a child wanted to play with a certain toy, or do an activity, or want an apple for example i certainly don't provide it without common courtesy being used. Good maners cost nothing and are a credit to a person at any age.

I encourage very young children who can't even talk yet to get used to the word thankyou by saying it to the child when i give them something.

michellethegooner
17-06-2009, 11:33 AM
Must say I am a firm believer in manners, although I have had the stand off with my ds when it came to saying sorry to his sister and I agree he used to just mouth it as a word rather than mean it.
so I adapted and said if he didnt feel like saying sorry he shouldn't but should go to his room and think of his actions and how they may hurt the other person, and to come back when HE feels ready to apolagise.

works a treat, I expect please. thank u's and sorry's basic manners are free,

Blackhorse
17-06-2009, 11:45 AM
I've only seen this thread this morning but have read through with interest.

Personally, I'm not sure I see how the latest behaviour management scheme (ie not teaching children to apologise or use manners etc) fits in with the Every Child Matter's 'Making a Positive Contribution'.

How can children make a positive contribution if they are rude and /or think it's ok to act out or hurt somebody and not apologise for their behaviour? How do they learn it is unacceptable if they are not taught this either by example or by teaching and example alongside if example alone does not work?

I've raised my own children to say please, thank you and sorry. I do the same with minded children and whilst I would never 'force' a child to apologise I do think it's the moral thing for them to do and they would be asked to sit away and think about how the other person/animal/whatever would be feeling and come back to me when they were ready to talk about it.

Just my thoughts... :littleangel:

I agree with you.

I keep thinking about this post and I also think that if a child feels bad after not wanting to apologise, then maybe that is not a bad thing at all.
We can't keep our kids from feeling bad at times. In fact I think it is a good opportunity to teach the child how to deal with these feelings. If they are angry or feel bad about having to say sorry then we can teach them how to deal with it so when they go out into the big (and often not so nice) world they can handle all kinds of different emotions.
It is part of learning I think. Like feeling guilty for having done something bad. This is just a way for us to have internal feedback about out behaviour..I hope you can understand what I am trying to say...

Schnakes
17-06-2009, 12:33 PM
I expect them to appologis.....and we move on

Exactly. I dont want situations stewing - I like to thrash things out there and then and get it done. I dont like to hold on to thoughts and feelings otherwise they eat you up inside.

I personally think that some children say sorry because they think they wont be in trouble, they dont mean it so its worthless and the behaviour is done again and again.

Agree...and its not about making the child apologise without discussion first, with me. Discussion is a key part of my method of behaviour management.

There was something else I wanted to comment on but cant find it!! (What a useless sentence that was!!!)

Sx