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Louise_Oaktree
05-06-2009, 08:45 AM
Hi folks, been a member for a little while and now comes the time when I really need to talk to someone!

I have a 7 month old baby started 4 weeks ago, came for 2 weeks and Dad picked up at 2pm in middle of afternoon nap - no problems went down fine again when got home. Term time only so didn't come last week and was off 1 day this week. Long story short yesterday he would not sleep for his afternoon nap. I put him down and he just didn't go off. He stayed in pram no crying or anything, so I left him. I thought he would go off on the school run - NO! Told parents and wrote in daily diary. Today Dad drops him off (just now) and said he was inconsolable last night, wouldn't take his feed or anything and really struggled to put him down. He was quite cross although didn't shout or anything he has really upset me. Saying how "whatever happens he MUST get his sleep". I don't know what else I could have done but I feel so bad that I have done something wrong!

We are trying him in his own pram today, at his request, but I explained that I go on school run so will need to move him to double pram which might wake him up. I don't know what to do I feel as though they are really disappointed in me and I have been so careful to follow their instructions. At first I thought it would work well because he is such a contented baby, but his routine just isn't fitting in with mine...if we go to toddler group he stays awake, if we go in the car he stays awake....they have said he sometimes sleeps for up to 4 hours in an afternoon at home!

How can I be more accommodating to them? I think they want a Childminder who stays put 24/7 - when she first contacted me she said she didn't want a CM who does a school run as she doesn't want baby in car seat for such a long time - then she came back to me as she realised nearly all CM do a school run.

I'm scared to do anything now that interferes with his sleeping, which realistically if he sleeps for up to 5 hours that only leaves 2 hours awake!

Should I keep him awake in the morning hoping he'll sleep in the afternoon? I don't feel like I am prepared to stop going to toddler groups and I can't possibly stop the School run....:crying:

katickles
05-06-2009, 08:52 AM
What is the babies uaual routine then at home? A sleep in the afternoon for 4/5 hours is going to impact on his sleeping at night!

Please don't feel you are doing wrong, you sound like you are being vary fair to me!

I have littlies that have a morning "nap" & a sleep at lunch after they have eaten & this has always worked fine as we needed to leave for school runs aswell.

FizzysFriends
05-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Sounds like this family need a nanny that can sit in their house all day.

You can't force a baby to sleep and you did lost to try and get baby to sleep so please don't let dad upset you, hes maybe suffering lack of sleep himself, although this is no excuse.

How about call a meeting with them and maybe arrange to change his sleep time so its after they are collected (if they go at 2), I personally wouldn't stop going to toddler group though as you don't want to feel isolated and start resenting the baby.

Louise_Oaktree
05-06-2009, 08:57 AM
Sounds like this family need a nanny that can sit in their house all day.

You can't force a baby to sleep and you did lost to try and get baby to sleep so please don't let dad upset you, hes maybe suffering lack of sleep himself, although this is no excuse.

How about call a meeting with them and maybe arrange to change his sleep time so its after they are collected (if they go at 2), I personally wouldn't stop going to toddler group though as you don't want to feel isolated and start resenting the baby.

Dad has found it really tough leaving baby and although the original plan was to collect at 4-5 he has been working from home which allowed him to collect at 2pm. Yesterday he had a meeting so couldn't collect until 4pm.

Yes according to them baby sleeps for an hour in the morning and 2-4 hours in the afternoon - still sleeping through at night!

Dad said "it's the first EVER time he has EVER missed an afternoon sleep" made me feel rubbish :blush:

little chickee
05-06-2009, 08:58 AM
this is a tricky one cos as cms i think we all do our best to adhere to the parents wishes for their children as far as possible but also the parents need to understand that we also have our own routine that we need to stick to.

i personally would not want to have to stay in the house all day to allow him to sleep - 5 hours sleep thru the day does seem like a lot - i would not want to give up toddlers , visits to the park etc this is not fair on the other kids either. i think that you should try and come to some sort of compromise with the parent that suits you all.

however if the child just will not go to sleep ther is not much you can do maybe he just needs time to settle into a routine with you - i would perservere with him for a while and hope he will settle

FizzysFriends
05-06-2009, 09:01 AM
Dad has found it really tough leaving baby and although the original plan was to collect at 4-5 he has been working from home which allowed him to collect at 2pm. Yesterday he had a meeting so couldn't collect until 4pm.

Yes according to them baby sleeps for an hour in the morning and 2-4 hours in the afternoon - still sleeping through at night!

Dad said "it's the first EVER time he has EVER missed an afternoon sleep" made me feel rubbish :blush:

So potentially 5 hours sleep in the day? That sounds a lot for a 7 month old.

Don't let dad make you feel bad, even if it is the first time the baby hasn't slept in the day it doesn't matter, its not going to have any long term affect on the child, its just one of those things some day they are unsettled.

katickles
05-06-2009, 09:03 AM
Dad has found it really tough leaving baby and although the original plan was to collect at 4-5 he has been working from home which allowed him to collect at 2pm. Yesterday he had a meeting so couldn't collect until 4pm.

Yes according to them baby sleeps for an hour in the morning and 2-4 hours in the afternoon - still sleeping through at night!

Dad said "it's the first EVER time he has EVER missed an afternoon sleep" made me feel rubbish :blush:

Well then you are following there routine as much as possible! I would apeak to the parents & explain that after yesterday & baby missing his sleep maybe you need to alter the routine slightly to ensure he gets his sleeps. I would suggest him going down after his lunch say 12:30 giving plenty of time to get his 2 hours in before going on the school run. At the end of the day you can only do so much & EYFS requires us by LAW to ensure that the children are going out & about therefore going to toddlers etc is helping the child develop social skills & allowing the child to interact with others.

katickles
05-06-2009, 09:05 AM
Opps - just re-read the message i thought the sleep was 2-4 not 2 - 4 hours!! Thats alot of sleep for a 7 month old during the day surely?!?!?

Louise_Oaktree
05-06-2009, 09:07 AM
So potentially 5 hours sleep in the day? That sounds a lot for a 7 month old.

Don't let dad make you feel bad, even if it is the first time the baby hasn't slept in the day it doesn't matter, its not going to have any long term affect on the child, its just one of those things some day they are unsettled.

Do you think it would help if Dad stuck to the 4pm collection rather than keep changing it depending on his work pattern? It is nice to have him finish at 2pm as it's 1 less on school run but I think Dad needs to let go a bit more as it must be impacting on his job.

I just feel really anxious about it all now, hopefully his own pram will help.

wendywu
05-06-2009, 09:23 AM
So the mindee MUST sleep. Just say no problem tell me how to force him off to sleep and i will do it.:panic:

As babies get older and more interested in what goes on around them they will tend to sleep less and alter their sleep patterns. Maybe he is more stimulated at your house with other childen around. Make sure you write in the diary what fun he had at toddlers and put in some photos of him having a good time.;)

kindredspirits
05-06-2009, 09:35 AM
i think these parents are being totally unrealistic - i would call a meeting with both of them and ask them to explain exactly how you are supposed to force a child to sleep when you are leaving them in their buggy to go to sleep and they refuse.
i cared for a child from 5 months old and he was in a great routine at mine, slept when i put him down etc, then at 7 months old he decided he needed MUCH less sleep and went from sleeping about 6 hours a day at mine to doing about 2 - so i think its important to emphasise to the parents that this child is growing and changing and will not always need his afternoon nap, you can only do what you can to get him off at the end of the day.

mrs c
05-06-2009, 09:41 AM
Not having a nap that day may just be a one off. I think you should give the little one time to settle back into a routine. Lots of babies have hiccups in routines and also the amount of naps and length of time changes. Dad sounds like an uptight parent, even if baby had been at home this could have happened for him. Don't let it upset you - if you have a baby who normally sleeps well then I am sure that given time he will settle.

youarewhatyoueat
05-06-2009, 09:58 AM
Perhaps the baby was a bit off colour or teething perhaps hence he wouldn't sleep at night.Sound like they're jumping to conclusions and obviously the baby is getting more stimulation at yours and is far more interested to stay awake which is a good thing.Take no notice tell them he had a doze in the afternoon even if he doesn't,I bet they were uptight and thats why the baby wouldn't go down for them at night.Take no notice.You're doing fine.Caroline x

Louise_Oaktree
05-06-2009, 11:54 AM
Well the good news is baby is sleeping! When I look back at yesterday I think I perhaps underestimated the amount of sleep this baby is used to and thought that as he had only woken from morning nap at around 11am that 12.30 might be too soon to put him down again so I only put him down at 1.30 and by that time he was then overtired???

Anyway, I feel tons better now thanks to you guys :) I guess now I know what Dad's priorities are so I can work on meeting their requirements ;) I just don't know how much activity I can pack into the short time he is awake :rolleyes: but I guess things will soon change as he grows...term time only and off for 6 weeks summer hols he'll be different again when he comes back!

Thanks again folks...any tips on helping Dad to let go a little? He seems so stressed about it all I am sure he should be spending more time at work :eek:

ChocolateChip
05-06-2009, 12:48 PM
I think you are right about maybe dad sticking to a set collection time for everyone's sakes- it won't do the baby's routine any good to keep chopping and changing his sleep pattern, it might give dad a couple of hours to relax or get some other jobs done and you will know when to expect callers.
After all if you've got others sleeping or doing activities his arriving early is disturbing your routine and taking you away from your other responsibilities:D

Will just add that I think you've done everything you can to work with them, so hope it all settles down again soon!

mrs c
05-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Think maybe Dad just needs time to adjust to the idea of having to leave his son in the care of someone else. I look after a little girl whose Dad was a bit like that. After a while he realised she was happy and well looked after and he began to relax. It's fathers day soon. Is there not something you can make for Dad that he would be delighted with? A nice framed baby photo made into a fathers day card or handprint might just help. Good Luck.

Cazz
05-06-2009, 11:48 PM
I also think you're doing everything you can and as everyone has said you can't force a baby to sleep! It's the parents who need to realise that sleep requirements change as their baby grows - he's not a robot that can be programmed. Maybe they find it convenient to have him sleeping for 5 hours in the daytime.

My dd is 17 mths and is now walking around - I'm having to play daytime naps by ear at the moment. She always used to have approximately 1 1/2 hours in the morning but has been taking longer and longer to go off which meant she was having lunch really late. She also couldn't settle very easily at bedtime (I think her legs were so tired by then!) For the past few days she's been having between 1 and 1/2 hours early afternoon (I try not to let her sleep past 3pm) and fingers crossed it seems to be doing the trick so far.

I'm sure that baby will fall into a settled routine with you and hopefully parents will chill out a bit!

Carole x

Pipsqueak
06-06-2009, 07:53 AM
Do a bit of swotting up about sleep needs of a 7-8 month old and get your facts.
Next call a meeting with the parents and say you understand their concerns but you cannot force a child to go to sleep - thats impossible. How would they like/expect you to this. Ask them about his routine at home. Present them with facts about a developing baby - but perhaps in the manner of:
looking at developmental advice its telling me that lots of fresh air helps a 7month get its 3/4 hours daily (or whatever its is) sleep - I suggest what i do is.....

Around 7/8months babies start to change, they are becoming more mobile and alert, becoming interested in whats going on. Subsquently they need more attention and stimulation - therefore being out and about is perfect (the fresh air helps knock them out too! lol).

DO NOT doubt yourself - you are competent and capable, its a fine balancing act between respecting the parents wishes, doing whats right for the child (you and your family and business) and not allowing yourself to be menally beaten and walked over by the family.

Having said all that - my younger two could sleep for the UK when they were babies. Harry right from birth was quite happy to wake up at around 7ish, he'd be back asleep by 9.45 for about 1.5hrs, and he would have a 3 hour sleep in the afternoon and then be back in bed for 7pm and sleep all night and this was around the age of 9 months. He is a child who likes his sleep!!!!

helenlc
06-06-2009, 08:39 AM
Having said all that - my younger two could sleep for the UK when they were babies. Harry right from birth was quite happy to wake up at around 7ish, he'd be back asleep by 9.45 for about 1.5hrs, and he would have a 3 hour sleep in the afternoon and then be back in bed for 7pm and sleep all night and this was around the age of 9 months. He is a child who likes his sleep!!!!

My son was a pain for sleeping and would wake after falling asleep in the car for 2 minutes fully recharged as if he had had a 2 hour nap. He wouldnt go to sleep at night, would wake in the night, would wake up really early in the morning. Even now at 11 he is a light sleeper and gets up at 7 whatever time he went to bed.

My daughter, on the other, loved her sleep and would go 7-7 at night and have a 2 hour nap still at 2 yrs old!! Even now, aged 9, she loves her sleep!!

I had a boy almost 2 in the half term and Mum said he would need a sleep after lunch. Well, I tried him but he refused his milk and didnt go off at all. All the others were playing in the garden and he knew that so didnt want to go to sleep. Mum was fine.

Another 18 month old I used to have used to come 9.30 - 6. He used to fall asleep on the school run for about 30 minutes. Mum came one day and said he had been a pain at bed time the night before and so could I keep him awake. I said Fine. I kept him awake all day - even near collection time when he was lying on my bottom step making himself comfy! Anyway, I said to Mum He is extremely tired but I have kept him awake.

I also pointed out that as they then had a 30 minute drive home (they were in temp accomodation) he would probably be asleep by the end of my road all the way home. (She never told me whether he did which makes me think I was right). I just felt surely he would have been better having a half hour nap with me during the day than sleeping so late going home.

You cannot force a baby or child to go to sleep. You can provide them with somewhere quiet and suitable, give them any comforters etc but that is all you can do. Dont stress out about it. As someone else said, it might have been a one off and it could easily of happened when he was with Mum and Dad.

I think you would be best to say pick up time needs to be 4. Say that it will help baby to sleep if his routine is the same with you each day ie it finishes at 4. That way baby will soon get to learn what time of day it is ie meal time, nap time etc.

Dad is feeling guilty about leaving the baby and if baby has always gone to sleep in the afternoon he may feel guilty that its because they have put baby into that his sleep has been missed. I am sure his anger wasnt actually directed at you but frustration/guilt at himself.

Good luck, persevere and do not doubt yourself.

Tatjana
06-06-2009, 11:53 AM
Maybe the baby was just having a day out of his usual routine, it does happen as does changes to the ususal pattern.

Please don't feel bad, you have done everything you can, the dad is overreacting.

xx

Zoomie
06-06-2009, 03:22 PM
my dd was a brilliant sleeper. she slept for 9h at night when she was 3 weeks old and for 12h straight when she was 6 weeks old. However at 10m when i started to prepare to go back to work she stopped sleeping so soundly and in the last 9 months I could count one one hand the nights where she has slept thru.

anyhows babies change and are greatly influenced by their environment. Hopefully you and parents can come up with some routine that will be agreeable to all, but most importantly is what works for mindee.

xx