Car seats - Again!

[Buzz Lightyear]

I have another car seat question.

I have a 1yr old daughter, a 2yr old mindee and from Monday, a 3yr old mindee who turns 4 in September. I only have a little Corsa though. DD and 2yr old have car seat in my car. Mum of 3yr old text me to ask whether I have a car seat for her child. Presently, I dont but to be honest, doubt I would get three in the back of my little corsa. Telling dh this, he seems to think if you dont have room, the child doesn't require a seat. Is this true???

I have the front seat free but it has an airbag fitted.

Can anyone shead some light on this.....

[littletreasures]

I think if you can't have room for a third in the middle of the other two car seats you can just put them on the seat belt. A 3 point seat belt is better than a lap belt, but you will probably have to buy something to keep the belt away from their neck.

[littletreasures]

Just found this

Children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height

In the Front Seat

The child MUST use the correct child restraint.

In the Rear Seat

The child MUST use the correct restraint, where seat belts are fitted.

There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1) in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;

2) if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;

3) if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third.
In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.

[Buzz Lightyear]

But how do I explain this to his mum? I am pretty sure she will want her child in a car seat but as they will be the eldest, it will be them who will probably go without. Unless of course the child can go in the front seat in a booster seat? The child will turn 4 in September.

[uf353432]

Why don't you get a booster for the 3 yr old? - I have posted a plea for help on finding slim line ones which is still on this page. There is also a product called autosafe, which is a strap which goes around the seat which you clip the shoulder part of the adult seat belt so you keep it in position.


Personally as a mum and a childminder I would not feel happy if any child was sat in the car without some seat or booster. A child can sit in the front in a forward facing with a airbag on, its only rear facing you can't use it on.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Interesting, thanks for the info on that. Will have to approach it gently with Mum as I dont think she's going to be too pleased.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I have considered a booster but think it will be a tight squeeze in the back. Maybe I have this child in the front then in a booster seat and have the correct fitting on the belt.

[littletreasures]

I think you will have to ask Mum what she prefers.

If you can't fit a booster sit in between the car seat, ask her if she would prefer child to be in the middle at the back without a carseat or booster seat but strapped in, or in the front in a car seat/booster seat.

You can put them in the front even if you have an airbag but you have to put the seat as far back as you can. Personally I think I would prefer them to be in a proper car seat in the front.

[TheBTeam]

If you google UK car seat law , it gives you pages where you can get guidance on what the minimum law requirements are.

I think that your dh is right by law, but i personally wouldn't have a 3 year old in a car without a carseat, and wouldn't put my child with a childminder who didn't use one, i hope you don't take this the wrong way it is not meant to offend you, but depending on the child size/weight etc at least a booster with an adult seatbelt, or one of the narrower high back boosters may be an option.

You can not use a booster seat with a lapbelt in the middle but you may be able to get two car seats and a booster in.

Good luck, if you are happy to you could disable the airbag and put a forward facing car seat in the front.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Thanks both. I will approach it with the parent on Monday once L starts. We will just have to avoid going out in the car until we get this sorted :( I have been looking at a couple of boosters but honestly can't it fitting as I have two big car seats, DD's who is 1 and then R's who is 2. L turns 4 in September. Failing that, I guess it's looking at a bigger car??

[uf353432]

the thinnest booster we found was 13" wide. I would say if you can't fit that between your existing car seats then its likely to be really uncomfy for a child anyway. Of course the other option is to buy all new car seats, have thinner ones for the existing kids - although an expense - still cheaper than a new car

[LOOPYLISA]

Bigger car :D :D

Sorry thats not really helped much, hope you get it sorted hun x

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You need to get one of the adjustable ones for the 3 year old and put it in the front. The normal seat belt will work with this.

Alternatively put one of your younger ones in there

[rickysmiths]

You would have to get the airbag in the front turned off by the car dealer in order to put a seat in the front.

Looks like your daughter is going to have to go in the middle without a seat. Strictly this is allowed but I must say I wouldn't do it especially with a Iyr old. :eek:

You need to check your insurance with regard the mindees and not putting them in the proper seat for their age and size. I personally would want them in proper seats and it sounds as if the new mindees mum expects this as well if she has offered you a seat.

I'm sorry but this should be discussed with the parents before you sign a contract and I know it is hard but you may be restricted to the number and age of mindees you can take on if you have to use your car

I am not good at attaching links but this happened to Sir Alex Ferguson's grandson in a head on crash on Tuesday between the Corsa that his mum was driving and a fiesta. The grandson is in a very serious condition in hospital because he was in the front and not using a booster seat-his head hit the windscreen he is 10yrs old. His sister 6yrs old was in the back and not on or in a suitable seat and suffered cuts and bruises it was reported in the Daily Mail on Wed 6th May.

I don't mean to offend but I had this with a car I had years ago and at the time I couldn't afford a bigger one so I had to accept that it restricted the number of children I could mind.

[Alibali]

I'd go for one of the seats that looks like a booster with a back but has a 5 point harness too, and use it in the front seat with the seat back as far as it can go. I think this would be the safest option.

[kindredspirits]

i have a feeling somewhere in ofsted rules if you put mindees in a car they have to have correct seats - i wouldn't want my 3 year old in the middle with no seat just because they didn't fit in, bigger car or avoid using it. i do think you can put them in the front with an airbag though just not rear facing seats. if your dd is forward facing then i woud stick her in the front and mindees in the back.

[Daftbat]

You can have a forward facing car seat in the front with the air bag on. Its only rear facing ones that need to have the airbag off. I have put a car seat in the fron of mine loads of times - i make sure the seat of the car is pushed as far back as possible to give room for the air bag to inflate if the worst happened.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Thanks to all replies.

As for rickysmiths comment about putting my one year old daughter in my car without a car seat, well I think this is obsurd! I would never put a one year old in my car without a seat whether it be my own child or a minded child. I cannot quite believe you have suggested that as a childminder! Surely the three, almost four year old is at less risk as they can sit on their own and are unlikely to move around so much. My daughter would be trying to get on the floor as she constantly wants to walk everywhere and hates being sat. At least in her car seat, she is restrained! Sorry but your post has offended even though you haven't intended. Also, the parent knew full well the numbers I have presently, it's not like I have kept this from her. I am not one to just sign contracts just for the hell of it. I take my business very seriously and it's not just about the money. Sorry, but your post has riled me a little! :(

Thanks to everyone else for your replies. I think it's going to be my daughter coming in the front in her isofix carseat and then the two mindees in the back.

[kindredspirits]

i might be mistaken Ellie - but perhaps RickySmiths misread your post and thought your daughter was older - no one in their right mind would possibly suggest a 1 year old goes in the car with no seat... i can see how her post would have offended you though.... hugs - getting kids in the car is a pain!

[Buzz Lightyear]

i might be mistaken Ellie - but perhaps RickySmiths misread your post and thought your daughter was older - no one in their right mind would possibly suggest a 1 year old goes in the car with no seat... i can see how her post would have offended you though.... hugs - getting kids in the car is a pain!

Thanks Kindred, I sincerely hope you're right and that RickySmiths have misread as it's a crazy suggestion!! :eek:

[katickles]

Looks like your daughter is going to have to go in the middle without a seat. Strictly this is allowed but I must say I wouldn't do it especially with a Iyr old. :eek:



Looks like a mis type to me hun!

I had a new seatbelt fitted fitted in my car & the front airbag diabled to allow for car seats in the front :)

[Buzz Lightyear]

Well I made it pretty clear in my original post how old my daughter was, still waiting for RS to comment as the post has upset me. Fickle maybe but even so.

I am going to speak with Hubster tonight and see what he thinks about DD being in the front and disabling the airbag x

[katickles]

Well I made it pretty clear in my original post how old my daughter was, still waiting for RS to comment as the post has upset me. Fickle maybe but even so.

I am going to speak with Hubster tonight and see what he thinks about DD being in the front and disabling the airbag x

She probably hasn't thought to read the updated posts on the thread. Don't worry about it, I am sure it will have been a misunderstanding. I do understand where you are coming from though, but thats what makes me think its a mis type. Anyway - thats nothing to do with me is it:blush:

I hope you manage to sort something out. I know when I took an a 3rd mindee my major problem was accomodating all the car seats. I did find a great one that adjusts in width, a bebe confort one that Halfords recommended & fitted for me. I will be buying another when my baby is big enough & needs a bigger carseat, maybe worth looking into that option aswell :)

[Buzz Lightyear]

Oooh thanks for the tip! I didn't know you could get adjustable ones, how handy :thumbsup: I shall check it out, thanks again hun xx

[loocyloo]

mother care were great at helping me work out what car seats would fit with what carseats i already had AND fit in my car !!!

it is fine to have a child in the front seat, as long as in a suitable car seat, and seat is as far back as it will go!

sometimes i think it is much easier to have the 3 LOs in car seats;one either side in the back seat, and then one in the front, as you are not leaning over to put them in/do them up etc, mush safer for our backs!

i'm sorry, but no child for any reason, goes in my car unless in a suitable car seat! ( and the bigger ones have to satisfy MY height chart or scales, NOT just doing what they do with mum! had one very unhappy 10 yr boy last year!!! but he was safe! :thumbsup: )

xxx

[rickysmiths]

i might be mistaken Ellie - but perhaps RickySmiths misread your post and thought your daughter was older - no one in their right mind would possibly suggest a 1 year old goes in the car with no seat... i can see how her post would have offended you though.... hugs - getting kids in the car is a pain!



I didn't misread her post, however as a Childminder I can not believe that another Childminder would even consider it alright to put a mindee in a car without the correct cat seat/booster. She was suggesting putting the 3yr old in the middle seat in the back.

I'm sorry if I got a little hot under the collar over this but it really annoys me to see children in the 21st century not in the correct safety seats in the car. I'm sorry but unless there is an unavoidable very extreme emergency there is NO NO excuse for doing it wrong. Car seats are not expensive to buy these days.

As I said earlier, there are times as a childminder that we have, wether we like it or not, to restrict the number of mindees we take on and we have to accept that this may reduce our income as a result.

Our own children are precious and so are the children we care, for but we also have a contract and a legal obligation when it comes to mindees.

Group 2 boosters With a back on are suitable for children weighing between 15kg and25kg

Group 3 booster are for between 22kg and 36kg

I will get off my soap box now.!!!

[youarewhatyoueat]

Asda has a good selection of reasonably priced car seats, theyve got one that goes from 9 months with the restraint right up to a booster seat and i'm sure it was less than £40, I think if under 8's are in the front with an air bag they have to be right back and it may still have to be switched off, I would check.
I don't think anyone meant to offend, just an honest mistake, perhaps good excuse to have a bigger car!!!

[estrelas]

[QUOTE=rickysmiths;414711]I didn't misread her post, however as a Childminder I can not believe that another Childminder would even consider it alright to put a mindee in a car without the correct cat seat/booster. She was suggesting putting the 3yr old in the middle seat in the back.

I never read it as she was going to do this?
As far as i could see she was looking for possible car seats, i don't think any of us would dream of not using one !

Personally I don't drive when minding, i would panic with lots of kids in the car, but then again i'm not as experienced as you lot!! Plus I can't afford a big car:panic:

[Buzz Lightyear]

Right so let me get this straight, you dont think it's acceptable to have an almost four year old in no seat yet you think it's perfectly liable to have my one year old daughter without one? Sorry but this is a ridiculous suggestion you have made, and one coming from another childminder! Surely it makes more sense to have the older child without a carseat providing the parent of the said child agrees. It is simply careless to even suggest having my daughter of one without a seat!!!!!! I can tell you have no children yourself who are babies!

I just want to remind you, it is not against the law to have a child with no car seat if there is no room, refer back to an earlier post:


There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1) in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;

2) if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;

3) if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third.
In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.

I might add, I have absolutely no quarms about buying a car seat, my point was, it wouldn't fit into my car. I already have two large child seats in the back and was simply saying another would not fit and not that I would refuse to buy one because of cost.

I am fully aware we a legal obligation as a childminder and Mum of the child is aware of my present situation and even so, decided she wanted me for her childcare. It is not like I am hiding things from parents just to get them to sign with me, I am not this fickle!

Thank you for clarifying that you hadn't made an error in your post Rickysmiths and just want you to know you have further offended with your rude and blatant reply!

[Buzz Lightyear]

I never read it as she was going to do this?
As far as i could see she was looking for possible car seats, i don't think any of us would dream of not using one !

Sorry Kerry but yes I was suggesting this as I have read that it is not a legal requirement if there are already two children with restraints. Mum has openly admitted she sometimes drives with her child being in a carseat because of it being in her partners car but even so, the post was mearly seaking advice on whether:

a. I was allowed to do this with the parents approval
b. What other suggestions / car seats would be available

And both of my questions were answered.

Not that I need to prove anything but over an hour ago now, I bought a booster seat for this child and will be moving my own daughter into the front seat and having the airbag disabled as this sounds like the best solution. Should I decide to take on anymore children which of course is my decision RS, I shall stop using my car.

[estrelas]

Sorry Kerry but yes I was suggesting this as I have read that it is not a legal requirement if there are already two children with restraints. Mum has openly admitted she sometimes drives with her child being in a carseat because of it being in her partners car but even so, the post was mearly seaking advice on whether:

a. I was allowed to do this with the parents approval
b. What other suggestions / car seats would be available

And both of my questions were answered.

Not that I need to prove anything but over an hour ago now, I bought a booster seat for this child and will be moving my own daughter into the front seat and having the airbag disabled as this sounds like the best solution. Should I decide to take on anymore children which of course is my decision RS, I shall stop using my car.

Sorry hun I never knew it was legal, as i've never had to take three kids in a car. Glad you've sorted it tho :laughing:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sorry Kerry but yes I was suggesting this as I have read that it is not a legal requirement if there are already two children with restraints. Mum has openly admitted she sometimes drives with her child being in a carseat because of it being in her partners car but even so, the post was mearly seaking advice on whether:

a. I was allowed to do this with the parents approval
b. What other suggestions / car seats would be available

And both of my questions were answered.

Not that I need to prove anything but over an hour ago now, I bought a booster seat for this child and will be moving my own daughter into the front seat and having the airbag disabled as this sounds like the best solution. Should I decide to take on anymore children which of course is my decision RS, I shall stop using my car.


Ellie I think you will find that Rickysmith finds it just an unacceptable to put a 4 year old in a car with no car seat just as much as she would find it unacceptable to put a 1 year old in without a car seat. That was a point - what makes the safety of a 4 year old less important than any other aged children - your own or not.

As to no other space - you do have another space in your car - the front passenger seat and this would have to be filled until you could use the middle one in the back without a car seat.

My suggestion is that you get the correct car seat for the 4 year old and put it in the front. I have one that I use which has an adjustable back and is from 4-11 - they are available just about everywhere

Lastly it doesn't matter what mum or dad do with their children, it is about what we do and our standards and policies. My policy says that all children will travel in the appropriate seats.

[rickysmiths]

Right so let me get this straight, you dont think it's acceptable to have an almost four year old in no seat yet you think it's perfectly liable to have my one year old daughter without one? Sorry but this is a ridiculous suggestion you have made, and one coming from another childminder! Surely it makes more sense to have the older child without a carseat providing the parent of the said child agrees. It is simply careless to even suggest having my daughter of one without a seat!!!!!! I can tell you have no children yourself who are babies!

I just want to remind you, it is not against the law to have a child with no car seat if there is no room, refer back to an earlier post:



I might add, I have absolutely no quarms about buying a car seat, my point was, it wouldn't fit into my car. I already have two large child seats in the back and was simply saying another would not fit and not that I would refuse to buy one because of cost.

I am fully aware we a legal obligation as a childminder and Mum of the child is aware of my present situation and even so, decided she wanted me for her childcare. It is not like I am hiding things from parents just to get them to sign with me, I am not this fickle!

Thank you for clarifying that you hadn't made an error in your post Rickysmiths and just want you to know you have further offended with your rude and blatant reply!


I'm sorry you feel this way. The point I was trying to make was, that if you have to have a child with no seat then maybe it should be your own. Actually I find it upsetting that you considered that it could be ok for an older minded child to travel without a seat but not your own child (the age isn't the issue, its the principle.

Anyhow you seem to have sorted it now which is the important thing and maybe we should call it quits. I really didn't set out to upset.

[kindredspirits]

wow RickySmiths i think you are way below the belt. it is totally wrong of anyone to suggest that a 1 year old should be put in a car with no car seat - i can see where Ellie was coming from and yes the most logical option if you can only fit 2 car seats in the back is to put the oldest and most sensible child in the middle seat - providing a parent agrees, i personally wouldn't do it, Ellie has found an alternative course of action anyway.

twice Rickysmiths, i have tried to defend your abrupt posts but sadly i think you like to say things that are rude and pointless so i won't be doing it again :(

[Chatterbox Childcare]

wow RickySmiths i think you are way below the belt. it is totally wrong of anyone to suggest that a 1 year old should be put in a car with no car seat - i can see where Ellie was coming from and yes the most logical option if you can only fit 2 car seats in the back is to put the oldest and most sensible child in the middle seat - providing a parent agrees, i personally wouldn't do it, Ellie has found an alternative course of action anyway.

twice Rickysmiths, i have tried to defend your abrupt posts but sadly i think you like to say things that are rude and pointless so i won't be doing it again :(

I think if you read between the lines what Rickysmith is saying makes perfect sense.

Sorry if it offends but I agree with her thinking of "what makes one child more important than another?" yours or others

[angeldelight]

Hey its the forum birthday today so lets concentrate on that now and have fun

:clapping: :clapping:

Angel xx

[Buzz Lightyear]

I'm sorry you feel this way. The point I was trying to make was, that if you have to have a child with no seat then maybe it should be your own. Actually I find it upsetting that you considered that it could be ok for an older minded child to travel without a seat but not your own child (the age isn't the issue, its the principle.

Anyhow you seem to have sorted it now which is the important thing and maybe we should call it quits. I really didn't set out to upset.


I have never once said it would be okay for an older mindee to be without a seat and was mearly asking opinions.

I know perfectly well I have a seat in the front Debs which is why I have said I will be moving my own daughter into the front and having the mindees in the back. Just because she is my own child, doesn't mean she is above the other children I look after, I have never treated the children any differently to my own and was just asking advice. I have already purchased a car seat for the older child just for the record. Also, I wasn't inclining that it was acceptable to do it just because Mum does it, I was mearly making a point.

Anyhoo, kind of sorry I even posted a question!!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Sorry if it offends but I agree with her thinking of "what makes one child more important than another?" yours or others

Oh for goodness sake, I was not implying my own child is any more superia than my mindees, I was mearly saying it was obsurd to suggest having a 1 year old without a seat whether she is my child or not!! Yes okay, I see it is equally bad to suggest the older child too but remember, it is NOT against the law!

[angeldelight]

Dont be sorry for posting Ellie

I think sometimes it is difficult though to express what you mean when you are writing it down

I am glad you have got it sorted now

Its supposed to be a nice fun day today so lets not forget that

Think this subject should now be closed to be honest

Come and enjoy the party every one :jump for joy: :jump for joy: :jump for joy:

Angel xxx

[rickysmiths]

wow RickySmiths i think you are way below the belt. it is totally wrong of anyone to suggest that a 1 year old should be put in a car with no car seat - i can see where Ellie was coming from and yes the most logical option if you can only fit 2 car seats in the back is to put the oldest and most sensible child in the middle seat - providing a parent agrees, i personally wouldn't do it, Ellie has found an alternative course of action anyway.

twice Rickysmiths, i have tried to defend your abrupt posts but sadly i think you like to say things that are rude and pointless so i won't be doing it again :(


I'm sorry but it was not a hit below the belt. I do not need defending on this one at all. If you read my post again you might be able to put my comment in context. I would never advocate putting a one year old in an ordinary seat belt without a proper seat.


What I was trying to say is what Debbie has said so well. Thank You Debbie.


I think it is unacceptable to have any child WHATEVER age unrestrained in a car. Mindee or your own.

I don't think my post was abrupt, I have apologised twice in case I offended anyone.

I am sorry. It is a subject I feel very stongly about.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hey its the forum birthday today so lets concentrate on that now and have fun

:clapping: :clapping:

Angel xx


Awh I'm sorry Angel, I had absolutely no intention of this becoming a thread in which people to point fingers at who was right and who was wrong and was only asking for advice. Had enough now anyway, I have my advice, thank you for the comments.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I think it is unacceptable to have any child WHATEVER age unrestrained in a car. Mindee or your own.

I don't think my post was abrupt, I have apologised twice in case I offended anyone.

I am sorry. It is a subject I feel very stongly about.

I appreciate your apology but remember, if you think it's unacceptable, that's your and Debbie's opinion. Just for completeness, it is not against the law if it is not possible which yes, I know, presently it is if I move my daughter which is what I shall be doing.

Thank you again for replies, no more are needed on this.

[littletreasures]

I didn't misread her post, however as a Childminder I can not believe that another Childminder would even consider it alright to put a mindee in a car without the correct cat seat/booster. She was suggesting putting the 3yr old in the middle seat in the back.


Not sure if you are referring to my post or not, but if you are what I was trying to get across that it is acceptable in the eyes of the law for a child not to be on a car seat in the middle if a seat cannot be fitted in between 2 other car seats as long as they are restrained properly ie. the cars seat belt.

The original poster was only trying to find out was is acceptable legally and what isn't and if anybody had any suggestions regarding car seats.

[angeldelight]

Awh I'm sorry Angel, I had absolutely no intention of this becoming a thread in which people to point fingers at who was right and who was wrong and was only asking for advice. Had enough now anyway, I have my advice, thank you for the comments.

No problem and no ones fault

Enjoy the party everyone :clapping: :clapping:

xxx