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View Full Version : NEW NCMA CONTRACTS : RE BANK HOLIDAYS



taiwallis
28-04-2009, 12:51 PM
Hi guys,

Just got my new contracts delivered (has taken forever) and i have noticed they have been changed.

I have always charged for bank holidays, however, i dont provide care. It is the only time that i do, as i do not charge for 4 wks holiday etc that i believe some people do.

However, the new contracts no longer let you charge - and say that you have to work the public holidays if you are going to charge any fee whatsoever -

any help???

FizzysFriends
28-04-2009, 12:53 PM
I thought the old ones said on the back you could only charge when you are working anyway just that soime people charge for BH anyway?

PixiePetal
28-04-2009, 12:53 PM
Not ordered any for a while, but will for September.

I was waiting for them to be updated. Looks like another change. I don't charge for BHs as I don't want to work anyway:)

taiwallis
28-04-2009, 12:56 PM
my last one said:
registered childminders and parents should consider the holidays bla bla bla.......

when a statuatory holiday falls on a contracted day, a fee may be charge. Childminders will not normally be available for work on these days, but where a childminder is prepared to offer a service, a higher rate may apply.

it now says

"if thechildminder is charging a fee for statutory public holiday, the service MUST be available for use"

berkschick
28-04-2009, 01:12 PM
I charge in full for bank holidays but dont work them.

I am available to work though but they would have to pay me double, no one has asked though :D

I read that bit of the contract as you cant charge for it and then say you are not willing to work it.

We went to Eurodisney over Easter weekend so I did not charge anyone for those bank holidays as I was not available to work.

I will charge for this coming Monday though as I am prepared to work it if needed but I would then require double fees and not just the single fee I charge for not working IYSWIM.

huggableshelly
28-04-2009, 01:15 PM
I only charge when I am open and if I do work a bank hol its for children booked in only at double pay.

taiwallis
28-04-2009, 01:18 PM
thanks guys xx

SimplyLucy
28-04-2009, 01:26 PM
I charge full fee for Bank Holidays but I'm always avaliable to work them.

I work every Bank Holiday anyhow for one family and recieve double pay (3 children! :) )

I guess I just carry on as normal then seeing as I'm willing to work them!

Playmate
28-04-2009, 01:46 PM
I thought NCMA were trying to encourage us to take paid holidays and training days etc,however if their contracts are worded like this it doesn't sound very encouraging!

Heaven Scent
28-04-2009, 02:00 PM
I'd give them a call and ask them why they have made the changes as it goes against what they had in their hand book a few years ago (07) - I was going to re-join to see what changes have been made. I'm with MM and it doesn't say anything about that on their contracts and I can use my own contract and use their legal advice services - I just dont know what the NCMA are playing at!!!!!!!!!

Andrea08
28-04-2009, 03:15 PM
my last one said:
registered childminders and parents should consider the holidays bla bla bla.......

when a statuatory holiday falls on a contracted day, a fee may be charge. Childminders will not normally be available for work on these days, but where a childminder is prepared to offer a service, a higher rate may apply.

it now says

"if thechildminder is charging a fee for statutory public holiday, the service MUST be available for use"

hi i think i have gotthe new contract its ncma 12/08 please can you tell me where this is stated i need to read them more deeply thanks x

ok sorry ive found it and ive also rang ncma andfor contract information i was told to ring between 9am and 4pm,,,,0800 169 4486 so just missed them so i suggest a few of us ring tomorrow and see what they say xxxx

Tired
28-04-2009, 03:49 PM
We are all self employed people running our own businesses. Can they impose a clause in a contract without asking us? Surley that is our choice? Could we just cross through that clause if we dont want it?

Roseolivia
28-04-2009, 05:03 PM
Why shouldn't we get paid? Parents get paid if that's a day that they normally work. It's not like we get a lot of benefits anyway is it, no pay when sick/holidays, 1/2 pay when parents on hols.

Mouse
28-04-2009, 05:13 PM
I have always charged for Bank Holidays (if they are a contracted day), but don't work them.
Parents have never had any problem with it and I'll carry on doing that.

Pipsqueak
28-04-2009, 07:13 PM
I charge for BH but don't work them. It is the only paid holiday that I get or ask for. So for 5 days per year (is it five BH's???) or how ever many there are then I am sorry I don't think I will be changing my terms any time soon.

I am self employed and make my own terms and conditions.

georgie456
28-04-2009, 07:18 PM
"I charge for BH but don't work them. It is the only paid holiday that I get or ask for. So for 5 days per year (is it five BH's???) or how ever many there are then I am sorry I don't think I will be changing my terms any time soon.

I am self employed and make my own terms and conditions."


You took the words right out of my mouth!! I'm the same!

TheBTeam
28-04-2009, 07:39 PM
I have just received a new pack of contracts from NCMA and it definitely now states on there that if we charge for a statutory public holiday then the service must be available!

I am surprised that they can do this, surely we have a right to take it as a
paid holiday, if the parents agree.

I have emailed the NCMA to ask the reason behind such a change, lets see if and what they reply!

berkschick
28-04-2009, 07:44 PM
I dont read it that we HAVE to work it to get paid but that we must be avaliable to work, which is fair enough.

Like I said before, I only charge for the bank holidays if I am able to work them if asked but if asked then I charge double which is enough to put most parents of lol

I also have a clause in my contract asking for 6 weeks notice if they require me to work a bank holiday. This then means that if I choose not to do it, I still have enough time to give them 4 weeks notice of not working that day. They cant just turn up at 8am without asking me 6 weeks before hand and paying the double fee.

If I am on holiday myself over that bank holiday then I do not charge.

TheBTeam
28-04-2009, 08:11 PM
I dont read it that we HAVE to work it to get paid but that we must be avaliable to work, which is fair enough.

Like I said before, I only charge for the bank holidays if I am able to work them if asked but if asked then I charge double which is enough to put most parents of lol

I also have a clause in my contract asking for 6 weeks notice if they require me to work a bank holiday. This then means that if I choose not to do it, I still have enough time to give them 4 weeks notice of not working that day. They cant just turn up at 8am without asking me 6 weeks before hand and paying the double fee.

If I am on holiday myself over that bank holiday then I do not charge.

So does this mean, that we have to be available, and if they use us they must pay, even if this is treble our normal rate. What then would they pay if they didn't use us, where would you put that normal rate is payable? This makes a mockery of you have to be available, but you can put parents off by charging an extortionate rate so that they will never pay it, but you will get your standard rate, if that is the case.

Previously, like the post above, these are the few days that i actually get as paid holiday, i do not want to work them under any circumstances, guess i may well have to forgo the money for them if that is what they are saying.

I would rather be paid for the bank holidays for the simple reason i am then getting a small amount of paid time off throughout the year. Previously when i have tried to get a week or two paid it has been just my luck the contracts finish just before and i end up with no paid holiday, the bank holiday route helped get some paid.

berkschick
28-04-2009, 08:15 PM
I just put it in the notes section that it is full fee if a contracted day.

Its like chraging a retainer fee, that place has to be avaliable for the child to use if they need it but you are entitled to have notice that they want to come, they cant just show up.

Maybe I am reading it all wrong, I havent actually seen the new contracts yet. I wont be changing the way I do things though. Like you say, it is the only paid leave I get all year!

wendywu
28-04-2009, 08:19 PM
Ok so i will be available to work at £60.00 per hour. And if any one is willing to pay that then i may consider working:laughing:

berkschick
28-04-2009, 08:20 PM
Ok so i will be aviable to work at £60.00 per hour. And if any one is willing to pay that then i may consider working:laughing:


Exactly that!

loocyloo
29-04-2009, 08:39 AM
"I charge for BH but don't work them. It is the only paid holiday that I get or ask for. So for 5 days per year (is it five BH's???) or how ever many there are then I am sorry I don't think I will be changing my terms any time soon.

I am self employed and make my own terms and conditions."


You took the words right out of my mouth!! I'm the same!

:D me too!!! :D

if it says that, then i will just cross it out! never had a parent complain yet! i only charge if it is a contracted day, and i am working the rest of the week! (so, i tend not to charge for boxing day, as i don't work between christmas and new year!)
i already add all sorts of things to the contracts that they used to have and then removed! (mind you, can't remember what now!)

oakie dokie
29-04-2009, 09:47 AM
just called NCMA and tried! to explain about the clause and that i am not happy with the new wording because i charge but am not available. the lady tells me if i charge then i must legally be available but this is not how its worded in old contract. explained im self -employed and i set out my own charges.

anyway she has given me her managers email and direct number for me to email him to complain that i am not happy with the wording. so if anyone else would like to complain too.

richard.aris@*************

tel. 02082902423

Andrea08
29-04-2009, 10:46 AM
IMPORTANT;

just got off the phone with ncma and their legal advisor;;;;;

self employed people can NOT charge for services while closed!!!

IF YOU & Parents have agree BH days and we are not needed the parents sign to agree to pay us,, if parents need us on a bank holiday and we say no sorry we are closed BH then the parents DO NOT have to pay us.

we also need to agree which days are the bank holidays to cover religious days ,,,some parents will not see easter as BH as they may have a different religion.

and also parents will want different days to cover their religious days as we will have to add as a BH rather than the family having to use up their holiday dates.

IT is not a case that we have to be available for work on a BH but we have to agree we are not needed for work on a BH ,,,same goes for xmas as no one wants to work xmas day etc but if for some reason we were needed we would have to put thoes days through as holidays.

If a separate sheet is needed to list dates this has to be umbered, linked to contract and signed by all parties.

If any one is not understanding or has a question please pm me or you can phone ncma on 0800 169 4486 they will give you a local number to ring for the legal team to explain further.

andrea xx

huggableshelly
29-04-2009, 11:24 AM
so does this go for those who take paid hols too?

as in you charge for 2 wks holiday so therefore should be available to work as oyu are charing but cant actually be available to work as you are away on your hols possibly out of the country?

I've never charged for my hols and take 4 wks unpaid time off plus no fee for bank hols so its never occured to me that I would have to still be available as I'm charging for a service.

Does that make sense what I'm trying to ask/say lol ... I hope someone undsertands what I mean!

haribo
29-04-2009, 11:46 AM
i used to charge b.hols but got fed up with parents raising eyebrows . they never needed me and a couple of times i ended up relenting and charging half. then a family came along and they hinted they needed me for bank hols i have a feeling they were calling my bluff to see if i was available. i love bank hols off and never want to work them so have decided not to charge anymore . its a bit galling and i know other jobs pay them but i feel relieved now i can just say no charge and not available . :p

Mouse
29-04-2009, 11:58 AM
I understand the BH thing... I think! From now on if I say I am available for BH's, but will charge double fee if I work them that should be OK? If parents don't need me to work them, they will pay normal fee as technically I am available to work.

How does it work then for holidays? I allow the parents 4 weeks unpaid a year. They can decide if they want this to be for their holiday or my holiday. If I'm doing a monthly invoice & there's going to be a week off during the month (either theirs or mine), I ask them if they want to take it as an unpaid week. Sometimes they prefer to pay for the week and use an unpaid week off another month (does that make sense?).
It means that sometimes they pay for a week when I am off, so unavailable to work. Shouldn't I be doing this then?

Also, for parents who are on a set amount, they pay for 4 weeks a calendar month, so paying 48 weeks over a year. This means they have 4 weeks unpaid a year. Every month they pay a set amount, whether or not I'm off or they're off. How would this work if we can't charge when we're not available?

wendywu
29-04-2009, 12:27 PM
Well i am going to ignore that and carry on as normal.

I dont have any paid holiday except for the bank holidays and public holidays. :panic:

wendywu
29-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Are the NCMA still saying that we should have some paid time off, or have they changed their minds about that as well:eek:

TheBTeam
29-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Are the NCMA still saying that we should have some paid time off, or have they changed their minds about that as well:eek:

Doesn't this come back to being self employed and not being able to charge if we are not available!

Tax credits pay for bank holidays, i think it is a cheek, and will not be renewing to update any existing contracts, i think i will either have to up my fees, by at least 50p per hour. Cos i don't see if you can't charge for not being available on a bank holiday how can you then charge for any paid holiday, this doesn't make sense!

oakie dokie
29-04-2009, 01:17 PM
"how can you then charge for any paid holiday, this doesn't make sense!"

quote, thebteam

NO SENCE AT ALL?

Hebs
29-04-2009, 06:27 PM
NCMA advised us to take paid holidays :panic:

i don't charge for bank holidays as i'm not prepared to work them, but i do charge for 4 weeks holiday for myself,

might scrap this then and charge extra over the year :rolleyes:

nokidshere
29-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Just stop using the NCMA contracts!

I use MM and I do my own contracts. The parents pay me for paid leave on BH by mutual agreement.

PixiePetal
29-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Think if new mindees come along I will put up my hourly rate and then no cherge for BH and my hols.

wendywu
29-04-2009, 08:49 PM
So why has there been nothing about this in Who Minds magazine. Or on the emails from the NCMA.

But they cannot tell us how to run our business it is up to us. They can only advise us. If that is the conditions you insist on, if parents want you they will agree.:panic:

miffy
29-04-2009, 09:31 PM
Well i am going to ignore that and carry on as normal.

I dont have any paid holiday except for the bank holidays and public holidays. :panic:

I will be doing the same!

There's no way I'm going to be available to work on a Bank Holiday......... someone would definitely take me up on it! :panic:

Miffy xx

pumpkinsmum
29-04-2009, 10:22 PM
Maybe I'm a bit naive :blush: as I'm still new to it all and don't fully understand it but I can't justify charging for BH's or any other time that I choose not to work. My OH is a self employed hgv driver and if he's not pulling a load then he's not getting paid. I was a self employed hair dresser and i wasn't paid for not cutting hair;) . I may be wrong but I've not heard of any other self employed being paid for services they are not providing. I know people say that because the parent is being paid for it then we should be too but you can't apply that idea to anything else (such as fees for example: if one parent is on higher wages than another should they pay higher fees?)

Of course, if a parent wanted to pay me I probably wouldn't say no but would feel a bit cheeky asking for it

cher25
29-04-2009, 11:09 PM
I only charge for bh if i am available to work them, whether im actually needed or not. Double time if actually needed though. Some bh ill visit my parent's in scotland, so therefore wouldnt be available. No charge.
I don't charge for my holiday's at all either. Am i doing it right regarding the new ncma contracts?
I thought the contracts looked quite straight forward and not really all that different to the old ones. But then contracts confuse me anyway.

Bananabrain
30-04-2009, 09:36 AM
i don't charge for Bhols because I don't work them.

I charge half for my hols,but know alot of minders who charge full.

Really confused {again}

Is it just me or are the NCMA pants?

I was under the impression when I started that if I had any questions or problems,then 'The National Childminding Association' would be the ones to help:laughing:

My experience is that they are completely pants and I have no idea why I pay them money every year.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Hebs
30-04-2009, 09:52 AM
My experience is that they are completely pants and I have no idea why I pay them money every year.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


same goes if you need legal help :angry:

huggableshelly
30-04-2009, 10:01 AM
on a plus side ... it does state cms may charge whilst a child is in preschool as the cm is responsible for the child during that time...

I know it was there before but its been made clearer ... again I've only ever charged for the time the child is in my care/booked in hours not time spent in preschool but it does help those who do charge.

The Juggler
30-04-2009, 11:13 AM
same goes if you need legal help :angry:

Must admit they gave me good legal help when i needed it. However, it would be nice if this had been explicitly pointed out in a mailing or letter or in who minds to those who pay membership. This is a major change.

I think that I may just increase my paid holiday days to cover bank holidays too. Parents are used to paying me for BH, so I'll just explain I'll only use the extra days for bank holidays. That way, they will know I will NOT be available to work.

wendywu
30-04-2009, 11:26 AM
So that must mean by what the NCMA are saying that no minder should charge any payment for any holidays at all.:(

TheBTeam
30-04-2009, 11:31 AM
So that must mean by what the NCMA are saying that no minder should charge any payment for any holidays at all.:(

I have queried the reasoning behind this, the richard aris bloke read my email late yesterday afternoon and as yet no reply!

rickysmiths
30-04-2009, 11:58 AM
I haven't read back over all the posts but I think you are all over reacting if I may say so.

I have always charged for the Bank Holidays, most of my parents over the years have been paid for Bank Holidays.

I am always available to work on the Bank Holiday (mad fool I can hear you all say!).

In 15 years I have only ever been asked to work once on a Bank Holiday ( it was Boxing Day and was great fun with one mindee), Wow you might be saying, but my fees to work on a Bank Holiday are twice my daily fee so £90 or £100 for the day!

When years ago I worked for an employer if I worked on a Bank holiday I was paid triple pay!

I think the reality is that most parents are paid and don't work so the chances of having to work are slim. I always ask parents about working them and if they do at the interview stage.

I guess if you really don't want to work then you just don't charge.

I do see the contracts are a problem, you just have to make a choice.

berkschick
30-04-2009, 12:08 PM
I haven't read back over all the posts but I think you are all over reacting if I may say so.

I have always charged for the Bank Holidays, most of my parents over the years have been paid for Bank Holidays.

I am always available to work on the Bank Holiday (mad fool I can hear you all say!).

In 15 years I have only ever been asked to work once on a Bank Holiday ( it was Boxing Day and was great fun with one mindee), Wow you might be saying, but my fees to work on a Bank Holiday are twice my daily fee so £90 or £100 for the day!

When years ago I worked for an employer if I worked on a Bank holiday I was paid triple pay!

I think the reality is that most parents are paid and don't work so the chances of having to work are slim. I always ask parents about working them and if they do at the interview stage.

I guess if you really don't want to work then you just don't charge.

I do see the contracts are a problem, you just have to make a choice.

I agree and that is what I was trying to say before.

They are not saying you HAVE to work to get paid but you must be avaliable to work which is fair enough.

There is nothing to say how much you can charge or how much notice you need if they need you to work.

So I ask that I have 6 weeks notice if they need me to work. If I dont want to work then I just say sorry, I am not working that day and there will be no fee. If I want to work I say yes thats fine, double fees as per contract.

Most parents are off anyway and do not want to pay double for you to have their kids so you end up with a paid day off.

If on the other hand you book a week off as holiday over xmas and are therefore not avaliable, you can not then charge them for the bank holidays that fall within that time as you are not avaliable.

TheBTeam
30-04-2009, 12:12 PM
I think some of the contradiction has been brought about by the fact they have said that the change has come about because childminders being self employed can not charge if they are not available, which a good majority of us do not want to be on a bank holiday. This leads to not being available if you take an annual holiday, so how can you then charge.

If it is right to restrict bank holiday charging, then that should mean no paid holiday if it is because you are on holiday. Why one change without the other?

Lets see what the reply is.

I am happy not to have any paid holiday, but i will then in future increase my fee, because generally so far the bank hols were most of any paid time off i had. I do not for any rate of pay want to work for the vast majority of children i have cared for, on a bank holidayi In my time working there has so far only been one child i would have considered working for, simply because of the way she and her parents fitted with my children and family, it would not have been a chore to take her on our family day out (at an increased rate of pay for a bank holiday of course).

Pipsqueak
30-04-2009, 12:12 PM
I haven't read back over all the posts but I think you are all over reacting if I may say so.

I have always charged for the Bank Holidays, most of my parents over the years have been paid for Bank Holidays.

I am always available to work on the Bank Holiday (mad fool I can hear you all say!).

In 15 years I have only ever been asked to work once on a Bank Holiday ( it was Boxing Day and was great fun with one mindee), Wow you might be saying, but my fees to work on a Bank Holiday are twice my daily fee so £90 or £100 for the day!

When years ago I worked for an employer if I worked on a Bank holiday I was paid triple pay!

I think the reality is that most parents are paid and don't work so the chances of having to work are slim. I always ask parents about working them and if they do at the interview stage.

I guess if you really don't want to work then you just don't charge.

I do see the contracts are a problem, you just have to make a choice.


I don't think its an over reaction at all - NCMA - the people who supposedly work to the benefit of us, the people who pay the fees to them for membership have now had something fairly major changed in the contracts - without even consulting us. I think that is a bit naughty - especially when NCMA are pushing us to get paid for holidays!

The way I see it - I bust a gut all year round, I don't take many holidays or days of as I can't afford to - (I would have no work if I started charging for my holidays or time off and in effect when I have time of because I choose too then I don't see why the parents should pay), and this year is going to be even worse due to the horrid start to the year. So why on earth shouldn't I ask for payment on a bank (national) holiday - thats all I ask - pay me for the 5 days or however many BH's per year there is. There may be occasions where I am prepared to work but this is really really valuable family time.

TheBTeam
30-04-2009, 01:32 PM
I haven't read back over all the posts but I think you are all over reacting if I may say so.

I have always charged for the Bank Holidays, most of my parents over the years have been paid for Bank Holidays.

I am always available to work on the Bank Holiday (mad fool I can hear you all say!).

In 15 years I have only ever been asked to work once on a Bank Holiday ( it was Boxing Day and was great fun with one mindee), Wow you might be saying, but my fees to work on a Bank Holiday are twice my daily fee so £90 or £100 for the day!

When years ago I worked for an employer if I worked on a Bank holiday I was paid triple pay!

I think the reality is that most parents are paid and don't work so the chances of having to work are slim. I always ask parents about working them and if they do at the interview stage.

I guess if you really don't want to work then you just don't charge.

I do see the contracts are a problem, you just have to make a choice.

You are very lucky, i on the other hand spend a lot of time working for people who would rather pay me than look after their own children, so i guess if it is going this way then i will not charge any paid holiday that i choose to take, and then i will increase my fees per hour.

Also we differ slightly to some other self employed professions, where they can maybe work a little more around a bank holiday to earn enough to cover the days off, we in childminding we can not do that.

I for one will be interested in ncma's reply as to how they have changed something so dramatic without telling us, and some of us will have both old and new version contracts in place! And how bank holidays can't be paid but holidays can, i would love to see some parents who pay me holiday bringing their child to cornwall for the day, when i am available on my holiday to care for their child!!!!!!!!!!!

Bananabrain
30-04-2009, 01:44 PM
You are very lucky, i on the other hand spend a lot of time working for people who would rather pay me than look after their own children, so i guess if it is going this way then i will not charge any paid holiday that i choose to take, and then i will increase my fees per hour.

Also we differ slightly to some other self employed professions, where they can maybe work a little more around a bank holiday to earn enough to cover the days off, we in childminding we can not do that.

I for one will be interested in ncma's reply as to how they have changed something so dramatic without telling us, and some of us will have both old and new version contracts in place! And how bank holidays can't be paid but holidays can, i would love to see some parents who pay me holiday bringing their child to cornwall for the day, when i am available on my holiday to care for their child!!!!!!!!!!!


That's the bit that I'm not getting,I' m sure it says in the handbooks that we should 'negotiate paid holidays' with parents.

Also ,if we are NCMA members,surely they should have asked us before they changed things? Otherwise what's the point? I too thought they were supposed to be 'our voice'

miffy
30-04-2009, 03:38 PM
I've just checked my NCMA Handbook (2008/09 version - I won't get another until my membership renewal in December) and on page 72 under Public Holidays it starts............

" Childminders should negotiate payment for statutory bank holidays in each contract."

So I wonder when they changed their mind? Anyone have a later version of the handbook?

Miffy xx

Andrea08
30-04-2009, 04:01 PM
So why has there been nothing about this in Who Minds magazine. Or on the emails from the NCMA.

But they cannot tell us how to run our business it is up to us. They can only advise us. If that is the conditions you insist on, if parents want you they will agree.:panic:

you can change the contracts but just sign by any alterations,,its only in the case of where parents need to use our service and we say we are NOT available so if we are not available we should not charge or charge agreed holiday pay.

it can all be sorted out at time of contracts most parents dont want to use our service on BH, no other self employed person gets paid on BH,, if parents agree to paid BH and sign the contract then we don't need to b availale for work and as for holidays again its at time of contracts to agree,

wendywu
30-04-2009, 05:14 PM
I suppose as i joked in an earlier thread we can also set what fees we like for Bank Holidays. As i joked if someone was to apy £60.00 per hour with a minimum of 4 hours then i WOULD work.

So there are ways round it. Just think the NCMA should have informed us.:mad:

misst104
30-04-2009, 05:19 PM
I've just checked my NCMA Handbook (2008/09 version - I won't get another until my membership renewal in December) and on page 72 under Public Holidays it starts............

" Childminders should negotiate payment for statutory bank holidays in each contract."

So I wonder when they changed their mind? Anyone have a later version of the handbook?

Miffy xx


I don't think that you get a handbook anymore. You are advised to access information online :(

taiwallis
01-05-2009, 11:27 AM
Wow, what a response - i am so pleased it is not only me who was concerned about this.

I have put that i will work if they pay double fees. I doubt anyone will want to so i have written in the 'additional information' section that if they don't use me for Bank HOlidays at the higher rate, then normal fees apply.

Now i just hope no one uses me - mind you the extra money would be ok!!

xx

ps. I have written to the Richard bloke too, as i dont understand how we can charge for holidays and not provide care, but not bank holidays - a contradiction in my book.

TheBTeam
01-05-2009, 11:56 AM
ps. I have written to the Richard bloke too, as i dont understand how we can charge for holidays and not provide care, but not bank holidays - a contradiction in my book.

No reply from Richard bloke although i know he read my email the day before yesterday, wonder how many he has to reply to.

berkschick
01-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Well I hope he is working on Bank Holiday Monday as he has prob been paid to :laughing:

wendywu
01-05-2009, 12:13 PM
What do the MM contracts say, if they are keeping them the same they may be getting an influx of new customers.:)

Mollymop
01-05-2009, 12:38 PM
[QUOTE=rickysmiths;406741]
I think the reality is that most parents are paid and don't work so the chances of having to work are slim. QUOTE]
Ummm, My reality is, knowing most of my parents they would bring their kids to me even if they didn't have to work the bank holiday.

I don't charge so for bank hols or my annual leave. I am not available to work, so don't charge.

But I agree that NCMA have no right to expect you to do what they say when it comes to payments. Your self-employment. Not theirs!

Nix
01-05-2009, 03:11 PM
I charge in full for bank holidays but dont work them.

I am available to work though but they would have to pay me double, no one has asked though :D

I read that bit of the contract as you cant charge for it and then say you are not willing to work it.

I will charge for this coming Monday though as I am prepared to work it if needed but I would then require double fees and not just the single fee I charge for not working IYSWIM.

same as me...:D

taiwallis
01-05-2009, 05:17 PM
I have had a reply from Richard!! He is looking into my points, such as contradiction, and the fact that surely it is up to us as self employed people how/when we charge. He has said he will formulate a response next week for me.
Will keep you posted as to what he says.
x

ps. don't change something if it aint broken!

miffy
01-05-2009, 05:28 PM
Hmmmn, sounds like he's looking for back up! Will be interesting to see what the reply is and how long it takes him to reply!

Miffy xx

TheBTeam
01-05-2009, 09:05 PM
I have had a reply from Richard!! He is looking into my points, such as contradiction, and the fact that surely it is up to us as self employed people how/when we charge. He has said he will formulate a response next week for me.
Will keep you posted as to what he says.
x

ps. don't change something if it aint broken!

Hi, do you mind me asking when you wrote to him, i wrote on 29th April by email and he read it around 16.40, still no reply as yet.

taiwallis
02-05-2009, 04:39 PM
I dont mind you asking at all!! I wrote to him after you! As i had read your comments that you had written and thought i should get off my backside and do something about this rather than just complain to you lot!

I wrote to him on Friday at 12.17 to be precise!!

wendywu
02-05-2009, 05:00 PM
So this "Richard bloke" is that Dick for short or Rick with a silent P. Lets see what reply he comes up with. :thumbsup:

TheBTeam
02-05-2009, 05:11 PM
So this "Richard bloke" is that Dick for short or Rick with a silent P. Lets see what reply he comes up with. :thumbsup:

His surname is Aris, so you can see what that would make, Dick aris can't you, but i am not allowed to swear on this forum!

The Juggler
02-05-2009, 05:55 PM
His surname is Aris, so you can see what that would make, Dick aris can't you, but i am not allowed to swear on this forum!


That just gave me best laugh of the day. been studying all day, got twitchy eyes and need a glass of wine but that made it all worthwhile. Thanks!

ps wait with baited breath to see what happens, just got my new contracts through

wendywu
02-05-2009, 07:25 PM
It could only happen in the world of childminding:laughing: :laughing:

rickysmiths
03-05-2009, 05:04 PM
I had a long chat with Richard Aris on the phone the other day. I had complained about the time it has been taking for NCMA orders to arrive and the fact that the operators on the order line seem to have no idea how long 'out of stock' item will take to be 'in stock'.

Anyway he was most apologetic that it had taken so long (approx 5 days) to ring me. This is what he said:

New delivery system has been put in place now with a new company.

The reason the Accident Folders have been missing from recent orders or taking longer to come is because they were held up at the old distrbutors wearhouse, they were delivered to the new distributors last week and a stock take has to be done, they hope to be sending them out over the next week or so.

Within the next month and hopefully sooner, when the new distributors are sorted out with stock etc they are aiming for delivery within 5 days as the norm.

He is also sorting out the phone system so all calls will be answered within the national average of 30seconds.

There will be an 0280 number again so that those of us with phone packages offering all calls to 01/0208/0207 numbers within our monthly rates will get the call included rather than paying extra for an 0845 code.

He has only recently joined NCMA from BUPA. He seems keen to address problems and is keen to hear our views.

I think if we are constructive he will consider all issues raised and would be happy to receive emails and calls.

Hopefully we will see some big improvements in the service soon.

TheBTeam
04-05-2009, 09:05 AM
I had a long chat with Richard Aris on the phone the other day. I had complained about the time it has been taking for NCMA orders to arrive and the fact that the operators on the order line seem to have no idea how long 'out of stock' item will take to be 'in stock'.

Anyway he was most apologetic that it had taken so long (approx 5 days) to ring me. This is what he said:

New delivery system has been put in place now with a new company.

The reason the Accident Folders have been missing from recent orders or taking longer to come is because they were held up at the old distrbutors wearhouse, they were delivered to the new distributors last week and a stock take has to be done, they hope to be sending them out over the next week or so.

Within the next month and hopefully sooner, when the new distributors are sorted out with stock etc they are aiming for delivery within 5 days as the norm.

He is also sorting out the phone system so all calls will be answered within the national average of 30seconds.

There will be an 0280 number again so that those of us with phone packages offering all calls to 01/0208/0207 numbers within our monthly rates will get the call included rather than paying extra for an 0845 code.

He has only recently joined NCMA from BUPA. He seems keen to address problems and is keen to hear our views.

I think if we are constructive he will consider all issues raised and would be happy to receive emails and calls.

Hopefully we will see some big improvements in the service soon.

Thats interesting, i renewed a membership at the end of the week before last and last week i received the accounts book, contracts package and the Accident/Incident folder all together really quickly!!

Don't mean to shatter your illusions but seems he doesn't know what is going on either. He also hasn't replied to my email re the bank hol subject but has replied to one he received later!!

rickysmiths
04-05-2009, 09:09 AM
Your'e not shattering my illusions at all. I think he is new to the job and still finding out how childminders tic so we have to give him a fair chance.

wendywu
04-05-2009, 10:08 AM
I do think if they have altered their paperwork and this inturn impacts on our living. Then they should all be up to date with the reasons why and the legal ramifications their alterations could cause.

Otherwise it comes across as slapdash and rushed.:(

AND is not fair on us,:panic:

The Juggler
04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
Your'e not shattering my illusions at all. I think he is new to the job and still finding out how childminders tic so we have to give him a fair chance.

I think so too. Anyone who sounds willing is good in my book. I think the stationery is back on track anyway now. I had to wait a few weeks for mine but when I chased up they said the problems were nearly sorted now. Would explain why BTeam got her stuff more speedily.

Also, B-Team he probably only replied to later e-mail as there was no point replying to both (unless they were different subjects).

TheBTeam
04-05-2009, 03:20 PM
I think so too. Anyone who sounds willing is good in my book. I think the stationery is back on track anyway now. I had to wait a few weeks for mine but when I chased up they said the problems were nearly sorted now. Would explain why BTeam got her stuff more speedily.

Also, B-Team he probably only replied to later e-mail as there was no point replying to both (unless they were different subjects).

Sorry i wasn't very clear- he didn't reply to mine at all, it was to another forum member that he replied to, i have only emailed once just asking what the reasoning was and how this works for paid holidays in general.

RedDragon
04-05-2009, 03:35 PM
I have never worked on a Bank holiday before.

One of my parents phoned me today at 1:25pm (child usually starts at 1:30pm) asking if I was working!! :eek:

I was in a fete so said no.OOPS!

She hadn't brought the little one to me on the previous BH and as she is on maternity leave I didn't think she would bring him anyway.

Because I have never had to work a BH before my contracts just say Bank Holidays - Full Pay. I imagine this can be viewed as me being open.

Will have to wait and see what she says.

Heaven Scent
04-05-2009, 04:12 PM
I got a call yesterday from new parents to ask if I could work today and I ended up saying yes but on top of normal fee which is payable anyway I wanted an extra £4.00 PH and they are paying it - Its up to them at the end of the day if both parents are working on a Bank Holiday then they will be earning an enhanced wage for working it so why whouldn't I - If they aren't working it then they will still be paid as they both work f/t.

Tatjana
04-05-2009, 06:00 PM
Hmmm, well after reading this thread i am wondering if i should go with ncma.

I'm shocked that they feel they can tell us what to charge and when we are expected to work etc, i thought the point of being self employed is that we choose our own terms and conditions?!

xx

rickysmiths
04-05-2009, 06:42 PM
Hmmm, well after reading this thread i am wondering if i should go with ncma.

I'm shocked that they feel they can tell us what to charge and when we are expected to work etc, i thought the point of being self employed is that we choose our own terms and conditions?!

xx


I'm sorry but you have misunderstood this. Ncma most certainly do not tell us what to charge or when to charge. As I have said earlier in the thread the new contract is open for you to read as you will. As a self employed person I decide when and for how much.


However they are helpful as a professional body because it is with their support that a lot of us now have paid holidays every year- I do, I have five weeks pais and because of the support of NCMA I have never had a problem with doing this.

kindredspirits
05-05-2009, 07:16 AM
as far as I can see - the only people to whom this might pose problems to are those who take paid holiday - I totally understand the point the contracts make, if you charge for BH's you need to be available usually at an increased rate - but you cannot tell parents you are going on holiday for the weekend and still expect them to pay.

not sure if it does stand up legally but i'd guess their legal experts and more knowledgable than me! ;)

emmadines
05-05-2009, 08:32 AM
I charge for bank hols as Im avalible to work them, not that I ever have. I dont charge double (although I prob should)

I would say it prob means that if you charge for them then you should be avalible to workt hem not that you have to but like others have said....... its my business, I make the rules. (terma and condidtions eg I get paid 50% retaier to hold spaces durig the school holidays)

taiwallis
05-05-2009, 08:33 AM
I think what we are trying to establish is how they can say we 'have to be available for work' on a bank holiday if we charge for it, but we 'dont have to be available for work' when we charge for 4 wks holidays.

I dont personally charge for my holiday - the only thing i charge is the 'few' bank holiday days (and dont provide care).

I know my parents would much rather pay about 5 days (bank holidays) than 5 weeks holiday.

It is something that should be up to us to decide and the decision shouldn't have been taken without our consultation.

Anyway, lets see what he comes back with.

Oh and it took 10 days for these contracts to arrive. Surely 1st class post can get it there in 24 hrs.

taiwallis
05-05-2009, 10:14 AM
Response from Richard:

Dear Mrs Newman

Thank you for your recent emails regarding the NCMA contracts.

Following a conversation with our Membership legal advisors Vincents, they have informed me that the standard protocol would be that self employed people could charge for a bank holiday providing they are available to childmind and therefore provide the service. If the childminder is unavailable to provide the service, then it may be deemed as unfair to also charge for the service unless it is agreed as paid hoiliday.

All of these points including the rates of pay (double/triple etc) for bank holidays would need to be disclosed within the contract so that both childminder and parent are clear on what is paid and what isn't when a bank holiday occurs.

If you have any further queries, our legal advisors Vincents would be able to help. (Tel: 01253 777468)
I hope this answers your query.

Regards

TheBTeam
05-05-2009, 10:15 AM
This is the reply i have just received from him
Dear Mrs XXX

Thank you for your recent emails regarding the NCMA contracts.

Following a conversation with our Membership legal advisors Vincents, they have informed me that the standard protocol would be that self employed people could charge for a bank holiday providing they are available to childmind and therefore provide the service. If the childminder is unavailable to provide the service, then it may be deemed as unfair to also charge for the service unless it is agreed as paid hoiliday.

All of these points including the rates of pay (double/triple etc) for bank holidays would need to be disclosed within the contract so that both childminder and parent are clear on what is paid and what isn't when a bank holiday occurs.

If you have any further queries, our legal advisors Vincents would be able to help. (Tel: 01253 777468)
I hope this answers your query.

Regards

Richard Aris
Customer Services Manager
National Childminding Association
Email: Richard.Aris@*************

So it sounds like as long as you state that it is a paid holiday you can still get your normal fee.