unsure what to do

[mushpea]

How long or how many incidents do you wait for untill you seek advice on child abuse.
3 things have happend now to child x whilst not in my care
1. turned up with big scratches down his arm although they had kittens

2. came with very big bruised obvious bite mark, mum quite happily said this was becuase x bit mum so mum bit x back to teach a lesson, but this was an over the top bite mark, (not that we should bite back anyway)

3. had conversation yesterday, x was staying with nan, x got through two wheelie bins to the back gate (bins were supposed to be a barrier) opend gate then walked 50yrds to the main rd to watch the traffic, first thing nan new about it was when neighbhour brought x back.

there was another comment a while back about x jumping on the bed, falling off and banning head but not had x long so didn't think to record this one because kids do this sort of thing.

is this neglect? personaly from knowing what they are like i would say it was more ignorance than anything ie not nowing how to deal with behaviour or locking the gate. have given advice on both incidents to them but not sure if i should be informing anyone else yet or wether to 'wait and see' what happens next?

[uf353432]

whats the child like? any changes in his behaviour that would cause you concern?

The scratches in isolation could be down to kittens, those claws are pretty sharp. The mum biting back her son - hmmm not something I would condone personally, but I do know people who have used that tactic to try and show that biting hurts. Getting out in the road - well clearly the nan was not doing a good job of caring for the child and hopefully will learn from it.

Thing is all 3 incidents are not caused by the same person, they are are all in isolation of each other. Its good to log it and its good that the mum is willing to talk and be straight even if we don't condone the parenting method. I think if there was a pattern of biting, or a pattern of him getting out on the road - perhaps nan doesn't have the funds to pay for a proper lock on the gate and there may be assistance available to make that happen.

Personally I would keep the lines of communication open and keep a close eye on the lad and ensure no more marks appear and see if there are any changes to behaviour.

[tinkerbelle]

biting regardless of reason is abuse
the incident with scratches could be kitten but you could judge that better by size of scratch marks were they consistent with cat claws etc
i wouldn't like to comment on the gate part as this could thearetically happen to even the most vigilant person depends on how long he had been gone for and old he is.i would never leave a child aged under 2 alone in a garden at all but thats just me

[mushpea]

yes these are my thoughts too, I really don't think this abuse in a meaningfull way, i just think they dont realise that he could escape the garden and that biting him back was wrong but on the other hand i don't want to over look it, dismiss it then he turns in to another baby P (obviously nowhere near that yet).
the scratches to me look like kitten claws but i noted it because they were letting him anoy the kittens so when they scratcehd him it would 'teach him a lesson'.
He is two and with me is very well behaved to the point he is overly well behaved and dosnet dare do anything wrong, when he first came he used to play with just one toy untill he was told he could go to another one then wouldn't move fromthat toy untill again i asked him if he would like to play with somthing else had him a good 6 months now and he is learing that he can play with what he likes when he likes finaly, nothing has really changed in his behaviour other than he has just started to have the odd paddy whilst with me but he has just turned 2 so age appropriate really. The only thing i would say is it took a long time for him to settle but then i am his 3rd minder so that could be why.

[bubbly]

A parent biting a child to teach him/her a lesson is downright disgusting behaviour. The parent should be thoroughly ashamed.

I would also log the incidents and keep a close watch.

I speak from personal experience of my partner being wrongfully accused of harming our son. My son fell over and got a bump on his head in our kitchen but he told friends at school his dad pushed him down the stairs (a bit of peer pressure and bravado in front of his classmates). The school got in touch with social services, who in turn contacted me and scared the living daylights out of me!

My son had to endure a horrid hospital inspection for other signs of abuse. I was present but not allowed to speak while the doctor inspected and questioned him. My partner wasn't allowed to return home until the police gave him the all-clear. My son has had serious health problems since birth and has been under the care of consultants and hospitals his entire life - so really I knew in my heart nothing would be found.

I know social services were only doing their job but the woman was awful. I made an official complaint and she was reprimanded. My partner was totally vindicated but the stress and damage it caused was immense.

When I was registering to become a childminder, it was constantly at the back of my mind it may be held against me - even though the family were proved totally innocent. In the end I took legal advice to put my mind at rest.

I know a major part of our job is to protect and nurture but being wrongfully accused can have a huge impact on family life.

[Daftbat]

If i was in this position i would make notes of the incidents mentioned with as much detail as possible - use the back of you accident book or something similar. I am sure that it will probably not lead anywhere but you will be using best practice to make observational notes. Don't engage the child oin conversation about the issues unless they say something - but make notes on this too if the child raises a concern.

Years ago i looked after a child whose parents went through messy break up. The father made accusations and although the child was over eight i called the authorities just for advice about what to do. They were very helpful and advised the above. It came to nothing but i was pleased that i would not be relying on memory for anything in the future if i was asked.

You can call the Safeguarding children board just for advice at anytime.

[Pipsqueak]

I was going to suggest what Penny has - give the safeguarding team a call or even the NSPCC.

I really don't agree with the biting back and it sounds like the family may need some support regarding safety and parenting issues.

Keep noting the incidents so at least there is a record of it

[Alibali]

All sounds fairly harmless to me, just normal children exploring the world around them, I don't agree with the biting back but I do know that some parents feel this is right.

Continue to observe and document worries, but try not to jump to conclusions!

My dd broke her arm 3 times in 2 years and I was sure I was gonna get the social services at my door, but my GP said 'it would be more worrying if a child never got a bump or bruise, as then it would be evident they weren't being allowed to be a normal, curious toddler'

[CCJD]

One of my big concerns after the Baby P incident was that some people might, for fear of getting it wrong, jump too quickly to assume abuse. Like Bubbly I agree that the havoc and hurt that can be inflicted on a wrongly accused family can be devastating - I saw a documentary some time ago and the relationships and dynamics of the families involved changed forever.

In this case, certainly on paper, the incidents seem to be fairly unrelated. Kitten do scratch - even a child in my care, who is an angel, has been scratched by her kitten. Again , nannies can overlook the escaping ability of a two year old. Mum biting back isnt something I personally agree with but like said previously, I know other mums who do.

I think it wise to make really thorough notes. Trust your instinct. A second incident caused by mum or maybe where mum isnt able to give a realistic explanation would maybe make me think twice. I would be extra vigillant and note everything down for now.

In my area, I actually know my health visitor quite well - she is one of those fantastic ones who remembers every child's name and is really very sensible. I would feel quite happy to talk to her about any concerns I had regarding a child in her area and know that she would be very tactful about getting in contact with family to offer any support (without mentioning me). Dont know if this is a first option you could consider before social services.

[louloudi]

[QUOTE=Alibali;363790]All sounds fairly harmless to me, just normal children exploring the world around them, I don't agree with the biting back but I do know that some parents feel this is right.

My mum bit me once when I was a toddler as I used to allows bite my brother...I never did it again!!! Everyone parents differently!!

I agree with the others.. take a note and just be vigilant.

[mushpea]

thanks for all your replys, i really dont want to accuse anyone or involve social services uneserceraly, I really like the little person and the family and get on quite well with them and really do put it down to under experiance on the mums part but also don't want to dismiss anything then end up introuble myself for not doing anything to help them.
I will continue to note things down and keep an eye on things and give them advice where ever i can.
My mut gave my son some awful scratches and bruises when playing when he was a pup so I do understand about the kittens but noted it down just to be sure and also put in my notes there were kittens at the house he somtimes stays at.
Its awful really that we have to look out for these things and like somonelse said the abuse cases in the paper certainly make you look out for things more.
thanks

[nannymcflea]

If you ring or perhaps go online to the NSPCC website you can get leaflets for parents. One is called "not naughty but normal". It explains behaviour that toddlers get up to and also has advice on how to deal with it.

Perhaps get some and hand them out to ALL parents so no-one feels singled out.

theres probably other leaflets you can get that could help parents to manage or help practically to parent in a more positive manner.

[Pudding Girl]

Agree with most above. You can call NSPCC anon whenever you like and get advice and they obv know a lot more than we do about it.

[Alibali]

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/publications/downloads/notnaughtybutnormal_wdf48092.pdf

Look what I found!!!