ive just found out that my sons nursery teachers wouldnt draw an elephant for him!

[sammykins]

as they are NOT ALLOWED!! this country is going crazy - i think soon things are going to come to a head.

Apparently the child has to learn how to do it himself!! well surely the child will just get frustrated by not knowing how to draw one, and im sure its best to draw one to satisfy the childs understanding and knowledge!

And then when i stayed at the play and stay at the sure start group, i was spying on my son to make sure he was ok in the nursery, and the teacher struggled to help him on his bike as she wouldnt put her clipboard down!! surely the child should come first and not her observation records!! my god i get so annoyed with the way things are run, and to top it off, I went on a course recently to be told we were not allowed to............................... PRAISE A CHILD!!! i mean xxxx!! instead of saying well done you did a really good job there, your suppossed to say something like, "look at those lovely colours you used, it looks very colourful"

I would love to see these children in 15 years time, if they were brought up this way, then im sure things would change in the nurserys again, it is CRAZY!!

Sorry this has set me off as i was just reading a thread that someone got marked down as there 2 and 18 month old got help putting there jackets on.

[Spangles]

I know exactly what you mean.

It's ridiculous.

I've read as well that if a child does a drawing or something you're not supposed to say anything much, you can't say, 'oh, that's good!' or 'oooh, what's that?' or give any praise or, it seems, show any interest in it whatsoever! What is this world coming to!

What's the point in doing anything when you're a child if you don't get any personal praise or attention or encouragement? It makes me so mad.

You're also not supposed to make 'examples' of things like craft work for them to get ideas from, they have to just do it themselves, I can see the idea but still think it's ridiculous. My son isn't it to art and craft in the slightest and wouldn't have the faintest idea what to do so if no-one shows him he won't learn and won't bother to give it a go - what's the sense in that?

Makes me mad too as you can see! Ha ha!

[rickysmiths]

as they are NOT ALLOWED!! this country is going crazy - i think soon things are going to come to a head.

Apparently the child has to learn how to do it himself!! well surely the child will just get frustrated by not knowing how to draw one, and im sure its best to draw one to satisfy the childs understanding and knowledge!

And then when i stayed at the play and stay at the sure start group, i was spying on my son to make sure he was ok in the nursery, and the teacher struggled to help him on his bike as she wouldnt put her clipboard down!! surely the child should come first and not her observation records!! my god i get so annoyed with the way things are run, and to top it off, I went on a course recently to be told we were not allowed to............................... PRAISE A CHILD!!! i mean xxxx!! instead of saying well done you did a really good job there, your suppossed to say something like, "look at those lovely colours you used, it looks very colourful"

I would love to see these children in 15 years time, if they were brought up this way, then im sure things would change in the nurserys again, it is CRAZY!!

Sorry this has set me off as i was just reading a thread that someone got marked down as there 2 and 18 month old got help putting there jackets on.

I read this thread as well!!! I would never get out of the house if I waited for my 3yr, 21/2yr,2yr and 18mth old to put their coats on!!!:ROFL1: :ROFL1:

They can take them off. But even the 4 and 5 year olds struggle to do up their zips on their own. :rolleyes:

I am not going to stop encouraging and praising the children I care for, or guiding them. Just as I am not going to stop making it clear if something is not acceptable. How else do they learn how to behave as normal human beings with a respect for themselves and others?:(

[sammykins]

i know and they are not allowed to call it writing its called "mark making", so soon they will be confused when the teacher says lets do your spellings can you write ............, the new kids will be saying do you mean mark make .......... !!!!!! rarrghhhhhhhh i dont want my child to be bought up in this way!! if anything he needs praise to develop his confidence, if no-one is saying well done he will feel disappointed with himself!!!

they should be concentrating on whats ACTUALLY going on in the nursery, my son has come home 3 times now by this boy hurting him, once he got hit with a toy iron and it just missed his eye, there was blood and everything.. but the teacher didnt notice, i told my son he should tell the teacher but he said the teacher wasnt in the room, then to get told by them that someone is in the room all the time (thats not what i heard by a work experience girl). The are too interested observing all the stupid things ofsted want but not actually observing him getting whacked about!!!

[peanuts]

no wonder things are in a muddle now

[Mollymop]

OMG how mad is this?? !!

[sammykins]

sorry i said the teacher struggled to get him on his bike, what i meant that she struggled to get him out of a ditch (she wouldnt of helped him get on his bike) i was happy to see she did help him get out of the ditch though.

[Mummits]

I was helping out at my son's nursery yesterday (as a volunteer) and the manager asked me to prepare the fruit so I washed and chopped it into bite sized pieces and she said had I heard that you MUST now chop the grapes in half for the children up to 5 years old because whole grapes are too dangerous for them - as are cherry tomatoes. So I said where had they heard that and one of the other girls said they got a memo from OFSTED and thought I should have had one too as a childminder. I said i've never had a memo about anything - I don't know how you're supposed to know this stuff. Anyway my three year old eats grapes whole all the time and so does my 18 month old mindee - he has then in the lunchbox his mum sends him with. Dangerous fruit! I despair!

[cuffleygirl]

This is all totally silly and needs putting right soon.

The leaders at my sons nursery say they children weren't painting as per the eyfs equipment set out but didn't look so inviting as it used to.

They have started cutting out shapes like animals etc to be painted and now I am the proud owner of his painting collection.

And do you know what I don't care 'cos I know he is having fun and in the future if he wants to he will learn to draw animals for himself.

[Twinkles]

I have heard about the 'dangerous fruit' a child choked on a whole grape a while back ( at her childminders ) so I always chop them in half or quarters.

As for not praising them .....bull. I will continue to praise and encourage until the next fashion in childcare comes in and we are all told to praise them again !

[emler]

Absolute madness :angry:

[Bananabrain]

I think the most important thing you can do for your child is give them support,encouragement and lots and lots of praise.

When I had my son the thing that was most important to me was that he grows up liking himself and having self-esteem.

He is now 11 and doing fantastically at school.As he would say 'Ofsted suck'.

[Pipsqueak]

Well, I shall continue praising the children - personally - well done thats it fab, what a clever boy.....

But I do chop grapes up!!

And I would draw an elephant - although the children can draw much bette than me

and I would stop my obs if needed to assist a child

I think some people interpret things too far.....;)

[madasahatter]

It's a mad mad world we live in!!! What sort of people do 'they' want the kids of today to grow up into.
Personally I can't see anything wrong with drawing an elephant for a child if they ask you to. I would describe what I'm drawing as I do it with the hope they would have a go at following my instructions. A nice big oval body, 4 rectangular legs, a round head, a long curving trunk etc etc.
And praise?.....children thrive on it.

I like your comment Rickyamiths, it sums up how I feel perfectly

I am not going to stop encouraging and praising the children I care for, or guiding them. Just as I am not going to stop making it clear if something is not acceptable. How else do they learn how to behave as normal human beings with a respect for themselves and others?

[sue]

I was helping out at my son's nursery yesterday (as a volunteer) and the manager asked me to prepare the fruit so I washed and chopped it into bite sized pieces and she said had I heard that you MUST now chop the grapes in half for the children up to 5 years old because whole grapes are too dangerous for them - as are cherry tomatoes. So I said where had they heard that and one of the other girls said they got a memo from OFSTED and thought I should have had one too as a childminder. I said i've never had a memo about anything - I don't know how you're supposed to know this stuff. Anyway my three year old eats grapes whole all the time and so does my 18 month old mindee - he has then in the lunchbox his mum sends him with. Dangerous fruit! I despair!


SORRY I AGREEwith chopping up grapes due to a number of children choking to death over reasent years.

but on the whole l agree with most of what this post is saying but its going to take parents, teachers and child minders to start complaining about the next gerneration is being taught before things change l personly feel that kids will be burn out by the time they reach 14-16 year old because that have started education to early and l feel kids should learn through play at a young age with lots of praise and love.

[sammy]

yes i feel the same i cut grapes too.

I feel we should complain to allow children to grow independantly AND to be given guidance when they ask for it, if a child asks you to draw an elephant you shouldnt say "no", how does that make them feel, surely they feel your not listening! they dont understand - stupid rules!

sorry i have to shout again .. rargggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!

[Angela234]

I DO CUT GRAPES AND CHERRY TOMATOES IN HALF FOR THE LITTLE ONES.
ON A FIRST AID COURSE THE INSTRUCTOR TOLD US ABOUT A FRIENDS 3 YEAR OLD WHO GOT A CHERRY TOMATO STUCK IN HER THROAT AND DIED

ANGELA

[PixiePetal]

I DO CUT GRAPES AND CHERRY TOMATOES IN HALF FOR THE LITTLE ONES.
ON A FIRST AID COURSE THE INSTRUCTOR TOLD US ABOUT A FRIENDS 3 YEAR OLD WHO GOT A CHERRY TOMATO STUCK IN HER THROAT AND DIED

ANGELA


That's fine, it's for safetys sake. :thumbsup:

Not drawing an elephant is totally crazy :angry:

[LOOPYLISA]

My neice got hold of a whole grape and choked, and i would always cut cherry tomatoes in half too. :thumbsup:

[Ripeberry]

I have to disagree about the fruit. My eldest daughter is almost 7yrs old and i still cut the grapes in half and i always will. Whole grapes are just the perfect size to get stuck in a windpipe and slip down quite far so you can't get it out.
How many times have you read the news and heard about children given grapes in the supermarket and they had to have first aid and lived (if they were lucky).
My brother almost died when he was younger from chocking on a boiled sweet that was round and he was VERY lucky that someone know how to do first aid.
But the praising thing is totally stupid! I'm not going to stop saying "Well done, that a good drawing". What are they thinking of?
If i was a child and i had worked really hard at a drawing and my parent or carer just said "Those are nice colours" i would be devastated. I would want them to ask me what my drawing was and for them to say it was a good likeness.
Does it actually say that you must not praise in the EYFS? If it does can someone tell me which pages?
Thanks

[Ripeberry]

I was really proud of my eldest today as well as she had been watching a DVD about "Spirit" the wild Mustang and it had a section on drawing Spirit, she spent ages watching the DVD, pausing it and copying it from the screen.
Of course i gave her loads of praise! :)

[OrlandoBelle]

I think what they're trying to do is make Children independant. One of my parents have asked me not to chop up apples and chicken pieces for her 2 yr old son as she doesn't want him to become finiky with food. But I have to admit, I do cut it up for him for fear he might choke. I never thought about grapes and cherry tomatoes and have been giving them whole up until now. I will be chopping them up as from tomorrow!

But not being able to help small children with their coats is ridiculous and as for not being allowed to draw an elephant???:angry: :angry: :angry:

Why do Ofsted give memos to Nursery settings and not childminders? It's not right. How are we supposed to know what we are doing is right or wrong before we have an inspection and get marked down for something?!! I wish there was just a list of things they would give us what Not to do!!! Infact, I'm going to start a new thread...if anyone has been marked down for doing something, or know of things Ofsted no not like...put it down! Lol.:(

[Ripeberry]

With the elephant thing. Can't we just draw one and then get the child to copy it? How are they supposed to learn otherwise? At our pre-school we give praise, our play leader has not had the memo yet i suppose.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Wonder if the teacher can draw!!!!!

[Ripeberry]

Have a nice time in Egypt Debbie :)

[sammy]

this was a "high scope approach to learning" course i went on and basically it was a course that was run alongside the eyfs. I think what she was trying to get at was if you praise one child then the other one would feel left out. But the way i see it that "other" child should do something to impress me then then ill praise him/her - hahahaha (no not really was joking at last comment) i praise all my children the same and comment on there lovely work too, so that everyone is included.

Honestly i still cant get over the elephant thing.

[sammy]

RIPEBERRY - did you just say "COPY" how dare you - hahaha,

My goodness no way are you allowed to draw anything to show a child, they have to think for themselves and do their own independent work.

These children are 2 going on 10 you know. lol

I certainly dont listen to all this silly stuff from teachers / ofsted etc, i do what i thinks best and sensible.

[Heaven Scent]

Words fail me right now because the people at the top have grasped titbits of principles from different educators and have got hold of the wrong end of the stick and are now filling others with a load of auld bumph - I may come back to this tomorrow I'm just too shattered to make much sense right now :angry: :angry:

[huggableshelly]

another situation where children are no longer allowed to be children, they are expected to grow up way too fast and be too independant.

Problems arrise when they become teenagers as they believe they know everything and do not ask for help from their parents as they have been bought up knowing they must do it themselves!

I'm never going to stop helping and praising my children or my mindees, I will continue to encourage them to try but surely its my job as a parent and as a childminder to offer help and support ehen and where needed not force a child to struggle on their own.

I had my 10 yr old ask me to draw a heart for him yesterday, I didnt refuse but I did suggest he looks in the template draw, this kept his independance at the same time as offering alternatives but if it would have been a younger child I would have got the template for the chilkd and helped them to use it.

[merry]

I couldn't draw an elephant to save my life, well not one that actually looked like an elephant :laughing: Lots of parents muttering and complaining at the Primary school about how teachers will not help children do anything, they must be fully independent from the start. Even the little just turned 4's have to manage their lunch money every day in the canteen style pay as you eat lunch hall. You can see the poor little mites haven't a clue what's going on and lose money every day. I'm all for teaching independence, but it does seem to be going much too fast with very young children expected to do things far beyond their capabilities.

:)

[donnahay0]

Just think about all those times when, as a kid, I watched programmes like Take Heart and my children who watched Art Attack etc - they were being shown how to draw stuff all the time - Oh does this mean I am doomed. :angry:

What a load of old cobblers - if we cannot show them how to do anything then my staff members are going to be at loggerheads - when my health and safety manager (that's me) tells my play leader (that's me) that the children must learn to tie their shoe laces because they might trip over and hurt themselves - it is going to end up with a dispute which the General Manager (that's also me by the way) will have to intervene. Oh what to do!!!

[Mummits]

I have to disagree about the fruit. My eldest daughter is almost 7yrs old and i still cut the grapes in half...

I'm not quite sure exactly what you disagree with, but my frustration is not really about whether or what fruit is or is not dangerous, it's the fact that OFSTED are apparently taking a line on all sorts of issues and not really communicating effectively with childminders. There are loads of posts about issues that seemingly sensible and caring people are just not sure about, and even concerning cases where they are being "marked down" at inspections for all sort of perceived shortcomings which could probably have been overcome or addressed if they had been foreseen - which suggests to me that the communication of requirements and advice is not particularly effective. Aimiev1704 has started a new thread about what NOT to do to have a successful inspection, and I think that sharing these tips is very helpful and supportive, but I still can't help thinking that it is a bit of a crazy system that requires practitioners to glean tips on the grapevine to avoid failure at inspection when it would be so much more fair and transparent for the regulators themselves to state the requirements clearly and consistently in the first place.

[Rubybubbles]

I use gummed shapes:eek: :laughing: haha I don;t give a hoot tbh!! I find with help they come on so much better! I mean how many parents collect there child and go well what is it:rolleyes:

I have had a child choke on a grape:panic: he used to bring his own lunch and I didn't even think! Very very scarey, I now chop everything:o he was okay! but it was very scary

[mandy moo]

It's a mad mad world we live in!!! What sort of people do 'they' want the kids of today to grow up into.
Personally I can't see anything wrong with drawing an elephant for a child if they ask you to. I would describe what I'm drawing as I do it with the hope they would have a go at following my instructions. A nice big oval body, 4 rectangular legs, a round head, a long curving trunk etc etc.
And praise?.....children thrive on it.

I like your comment Rickyamiths, it sums up how I feel perfectly

Your signature sums up ofsted perfectly, not you Hatter :laughing: