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donnagwynne
21-01-2009, 02:36 PM
Hi all,

I haven't been on for a while, and was reading through the thread about why childminders are giving up (which I am thinking of doing to) when I read this

also the new guidelines that says a 4 year old going to nursery/reception is classed as one of the under fives.

I don't want to open up a new can of worms, but I thought that this has been settled by ofsted last year, that children in reception class were considered to be over five for the purpose of our ratios.

So, if I have missed something new, could you please direct me to where I should have found out from, because I will be over my numbers after school.

Thanks, Donna

HomefromHome
21-01-2009, 02:43 PM
Hi all,

I haven't been on for a while, and was reading through the thread about why childminders are giving up (which I am thinking of doing to) when I read this

also the new guidelines that says a 4 year old going to nursery/reception is classed as one of the under fives.

I don't want to open up a new can of worms, but I thought that this has been settled by ofsted last year, that children in reception class were considered to be over five for the purpose of our ratios.

So, if I have missed something new, could you please direct me to where I should have found out from, because I will be over my numbers after school.

Thanks, Donna

i think the debate is still raging on this one! :)

Pipsqueak
21-01-2009, 02:45 PM
which thread is that Donna?

NCMA and several members on here clarified with Ofsted (last year) that if a 4yr old is in full time eduction (10 sessions per week) they are considered in the 5-8yr bracket for the purposes of ratios.

rickysmiths
21-01-2009, 02:49 PM
As far as I'm aware Children Schools and Family who govern OFSTED, ruled last year, that any child of four who was in nursery or school reception counts as over 5years both in term time and holidays. OFSTED in Sept and they confirmed if its changed again I,m in trouble.

misst104
21-01-2009, 02:50 PM
Not sure if this is what you meant but we were told a few weeks ago that your child is classed as a 5 year old (for cm ratios) as soon as s/he starts full time school regarless of when 5th birthday falls but if the child is still 4 in school hols and at home then s/he still classed as under 5.

eg my ds is 5 in Nov. Starts school Sept when still 4 but during that first half term classed as 5 for before and after school ratios. However in October half term when he is at home he will be classed as under 5. Birthday in Nov so during xmas hols and thereafter he will be over 5 and classed as such all the time.

Not sure if that makes sense to you or if thats what you mean but hope it may help :thumbsup:

Jo x x x

misst104
21-01-2009, 02:51 PM
As far as I'm aware Children Schools and Family who govern OFSTED, ruled last year, that any child of four who was in nursery or school reception counts as over 5years both in term time and holidays. OFSTED in Sept and they confirmed if its changed again I,m in trouble.

Seems we have been told different things :panic:

gegele
21-01-2009, 05:19 PM
well i'm not registered yet and i'm french so the way i see things can be backward!pmsl! but this is how i see things : 4 full time educ is a 5 for ratio BUT stil under eyfs rules as we're supposed to do the overlaping thiny when they start shool and all!: i forgot the word i'm looking for...!! any how the best thing to do is : SsssssAaaaaaaaRRRRRRRRRRRaaaaaaHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

there !she should see our bat distress sign in the night and come to the rescue with all the answers!!!
:laughing:

Pipsqueak
21-01-2009, 06:05 PM
This is the email from Ofsted when I enquired back in Aug 08. I know several members of this forum AND Ncma have confirmed since that a "rising 5" is considered 5 in AND out of the holidays

Dear Ms ****

Thank you for your e-mail.

Children aged four attending ten early education sessions a week may be classed as children over five years for the purposes of the adult to child ratio. This also applies in school holidays and is referred to as rising 5s. Relates to national standard 2.4.


For example, if a childminder can care for six children under eight, of which three can be under five, a four-year-old that meets the above criteria can take the place of one of the children aged five and over. Therefore they could still have 3 further children under 5.

The child may be classed as a five-year-old throughout the time they are with the childminder. They do not revert to being a four-year-old during school holidays, for example.


These conditions also apply to the childminders own child/children.

As far as Ofsted are aware this will not be changing under the EYFS.

However should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.


Regards,
Briege McGroggan

Customer Service Advisor

Ofsted - National Business Unit

TEL: 08456 404040

Pipsqueak
21-01-2009, 06:09 PM
here are some links to some old threads


http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14487&highlight=rising+5

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14416&highlight=rising+5

clarification on the first post of the second thread extract:
Again rising fives can be applied to these ratios.

We have received confirmation from the Department for Children, Schools and Families that the change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement. Reference is made to children attending the childminding setting before and after the school day only to specify which children may be counted as five. Therefore, the EYFS does not prevent four and five year olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays.

childmind04
21-01-2009, 06:11 PM
I queried this at my inspection and she said there had been a lot of issues over the wording but it still stands as usual thank goodness :) fulltime are classed as over 5 :)

donnagwynne
21-01-2009, 06:54 PM
Fantastic,

I remembered Pipsqueeks E-mail from last year and was worried that something had changed since then.

I am glad I brought it up however, as there still seems to be some confusion.

:)

sarah707
21-01-2009, 07:09 PM
It's still the same as it ever was...

As soon as a child goes to school for 10 full time sessions a week they are classed as 5.

This is the same in term time and the holidays.

Hth :D

gegele
21-01-2009, 08:31 PM
It's still the same as it ever was...

As soon as a child goes to school for 10 full time sessions a week they are classed as 5.

This is the same in term time and the holidays.

Hth :D

tatatatatatatatatata tatata sarahhhhh !!!!

(my attempts at batman's music:blush: :blush: )

Polka Dots
21-01-2009, 11:09 PM
Dear Ms ****

Thank you for your e-mail.

Children aged four attending ten early education sessions a week may be classed as children over five years for the purposes of the adult to child ratio. This also applies in school holidays and is referred to as rising 5s. Relates to national standard 2.4.


For example, if a childminder can care for six children under eight, of which three can be under five, a four-year-old that meets the above criteria can take the place of one of the children aged five and over. Therefore they could still have 3 further children under 5.

The child may be classed as a five-year-old throughout the time they are with the childminder. They do not revert to being a four-year-old during school holidays, for example.

These conditions also apply to the childminders own child/children.

As far as Ofsted are aware this will not be changing under the EYFS.

However should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.


Regards,
Briege McGroggan

Customer Service Advisor

Ofsted - National Business Unit

TEL: 08456 404040

Thank goodness for that, I was briefly worried because DD starts full time education in September.

Schnakes
21-01-2009, 11:10 PM
I went to a course tonight and one of the childminders had her inspection this Tuesday. The inspector told her then that the child is considered over 5 ratio wise after the somthingth of August after their 5th birthday!! This was hotly disputed by all, including me who spoke to Ofsted on the phone at the end of August and was told what everyone else here is saying. But this childminder was adamant that that was what the inspector had said!!

Weird!!

Sx