Wall problem!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Yesterday, my EY team picked up on a problem we have and basically said this is the only real concern Ofsted will have with my setting.

Where I live, it's a conservation area (Yorkshire for you!) and the wall at the back of our garden is only around 3ft tall. Problem is, over that wall is around a 12ft drop into a shallow stream. Before now, I just thought it was ideallic as the ducks and their ducklings would gather down there and we would feed them but now of course, with my CM head on, can obviously see it's going to be a problem in terms of potential children climbing.

EY team said Ofsted would have a heart-attack, lol or maybe not so lol!

Anyway, trying to attach a photo so you can get the general idea (see attachment - small but had to be to upload it!)

Basically, I know I have to do something but I am looking for ideas as to what. Obviously we dont want anything too permanent or intrusive as this is still our home and in the summer, it really is lovely. So something temporary to use when minding would be ideal but what?!?!

Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions which they might have used.

EY was saying if we do nothing, I'd have to not register the garden which would be such a shame :(

Thanks.
Ellie x

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I can see what you mean from the photo.

I have conifers in my garden which Ofsted said the children could get through and "escape". We discussed and compromised on a condition which stated that I had to be in the garden with the children under 5. This was some time again and now you would have to prove outdoor options for all ages.

Sorry no other solution than not to register the garden but maybe others will have.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Thanks Debbie, the thing is, I will absolutely be out in the garden with the children as I am hoping to have one mindee only (plus obviously my own daughter) but would never dream of leaving them in the garden alone. Not a chance. I dont think this will be enough though for Ofsted.

I've had a thought about possibly a temporary bamboo wall which will go up to stop the children going to the wall and climbing but then it kind of defeats the object of feeding the ducks and ducklings like we already do in the summer. I guess we'd have to go to the canal instead or the beck and not be lazy stopping in my garden, lol!

It's such a pain, this is my home!!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Ofsted cannot tell you what you must do but they can ask how you are going to make it safe. if you have a good answer you will be alright and not leaving them in the garden unattended should be sufficient. it is worth a go.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hmm cheers, might say that then and see what she says. Didn't seem a good enough answer yesterday though with Early Years but it wont hurt to say. If it's not sufficient, I will mention the bamboo idea and see what she says. She can only action me for it!

[SimplyLucy]

Why don't you get the bamboo fencing that can be rolled up. You'd be able to roll it out and tuck it behind some large stone stoppers on the grass when you have mindees there and put it away at other times.

You'd also be able to roll it back to feed the ducks when you are there to hold on to smaller children.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Yes possibly SimplyLucy, the bamboo was my idea to hubby last night. I think I'm going to say the idea of never leaving the children unattended first and see what reaction I get from Ofsted. If they aren't impressed by that then I will say the backup idea.

[Annie_T]

oh no thats a bummer hun

could you not build the wall up a bit more (not much but enough that young ones cant climb easy onto the wall)

can still feed ducks then too

[Buzz Lightyear]

Thinking probably not or the builders would have surely have done it, plus to do it, it would make the other houses look odd. Plus, I will have to get planning for it due to the conservation area and as others dont have it, will probably get refused. Plus dont think I want to build the wall any higher, it's nice as it is :(

[Heaven Scent]

Oh dear me it is a bit of a dilema, I don't see how the early years team can say that, what about minders who live in flats with balconies I'm sure they are far more dangerous than your wall.

I'm quite sure that if you have a risk assessment and a copule of solutions beginning with the one to cause the least disruption to you and your family then it should be OK. I'm sure that stating that you will always be out there with the children and there will never be more than 2 children per adult in the garden.

[miffy]

I'd do a risk assessment for it to show how aware you are of the danger (and that you'd thought about it) with the "solution" being that you will not leave the children unattended in the garden plus how you will make sure they can't get into the garden by themselves and see what happens when the inspector comes.

Good luck - it looks a lovely view and would be a shame to spoil it

Miffy xx

[Buzz Lightyear]

Good thinking Celest, will go and do a specific risk assessment now for the garden to show her tomorrow and then an optional solution about the bamboo. Urgh, I hope we dont have to do anything with it really as it really is lovely in the summer!!

[madasahatter]

Have you considered having some railings bolted onto your wall top? They wouldn't need to be high (maybe only a foot). I know they would be expensive but they would have the advantage of still being able to see and feed the ducks as well as improving the safety aspect considerably. From the picture it would look like you will also have to consider possible escapees into next doors gardens too as the dividing wall is the same height.
In my garden I have a low wall (2ft high) dividing the patio from the lawn. The lawn is lower so from the wall top it is a drop of 3.5 ft. I use square planters all along the top to stop the children climbing onto the wall and we grow lots of veg. I would consider this a good idea for the walls adjoining your neighbours (if they're happy) but not for the drop into the stream.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I really dont like the idea of iron railings. Nothing personal about people who have them but just dont like the look of them. Plus they are a rather permanent fixture we would rather live without. Plus, I dont think the neighbours would be too pleased with us putting them up either. Furthermore, I would have to apply to planning to have them up and will probably find they are refused. Not that I think they are an option anyway.

Hubby mentioned the fact about next doors walls also so think the statement about always being in the garden with the children is really important. Just doing a risk assessment now and allaborating on the action I will take. Hopefully, Ofsted inspector will think this is suitable enough as I dont intend on looking after anymore than 3 children including my own anyway.

[Spangles]

To be honest I would imagine that Ofsted would be happy with a detailed risk assessment and you saying you will obviously be in attendance and supervising at all times.

I'm sure other people on here will read your message and have the same kind of problems and Ofsted will have agreed to this with the risk assessment in place.

I can't see what else you can do because as you say you can't increase the height of the walls at the end or sides of your garden without it being inconvenient and forcing your neighbours to act on it too.

If you are in attendance the whole time and only have two children you are very much in control of the situation, also obviously teaching them of the dangers and to be careful, ensuring external doors area always locked when indoors, etc. I would have thought that would be fair enough surely?

It all depends on what the inspector you get is like though a lot of the time.

Could you phone Ofsted maybe and make an enquiry about it and see what they say? Or better still e-mail them so you've a copy of the reply? Maybe attach a copy of the risk assessment?

Sorry - not much help am I!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hi Lorri, thanks, your reply was actually a lot of help. Good idea about calling or emailing them but my Ofsted pre-inspection is tomorrow morning. I've been informed by my trainers that my inspector is a bit of a battle-axe too :( but I dont know what else I could possibly do.

I have really emphasised the action on the garden risks, especially the wall in question. Hopefully this will be enough, if not... time to think of a plan b!

[SimplyLucy]

I've had a think about this and the other option is not to have the garden registered.

This doesn't mean that you can't use the garden it just means you'd treat the garden like you would a visit to the park or playground.

I remember someone at my pre-reg meeting had to do this due to a stream that ran through her garden.

[Spangles]

Good luck for tomorrow! As it's your pre-inspection I think the inspector will be really impressed you've given it so much thought and been so pro-active actually.

If it is a problem she will be able to tell you how you could solve it to their satisfaction anyway.

Don't worry, you'll be fine.

Let us know how it goes.

x

[Buzz Lightyear]

I've had a think about this and the other option is not to have the garden registered.

This doesn't mean that you can't use the garden it just means you'd treat the garden like you would a visit to the park or playground.

Interesting comment SimplyLucy, I had no idea you could still use the garden even though it isn't registered. Maybe that is an option then but surely it still maintains the same hazards and risks?

Ideally, I would like to have the garden registered though as I plan to do activities (depending on my age group) in the summer.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Good luck for tomorrow! As it's your pre-inspection I think the inspector will be really impressed you've given it so much thought and been so pro-active actually.

If it is a problem she will be able to tell you how you could solve it to their satisfaction anyway.

x

Thanks Spangles, I hope you're right. EY seemed to be impressed yesterday and said I should consider being Quality Assured which was quite a compliment :D Roll on D-Day... I mean Thurday :laughing:

[SimplyLucy]

Interesting comment SimplyLucy, I had no idea you could still use the garden even though it isn't registered. Maybe that is an option then but surely it still maintains the same hazards and risks?

Ideally, I would like to have the garden registered though as I plan to do activities (depending on my age group) in the summer.

Thats the thing, you'd still be able to use the garden for activities and daily play. By it not being registered would just be OFSTEDS way of ensuring that you are treating the area as a place to visit rather than having the doors open for freeflow play.

Yes it would still have the same hazard as now but you'd do a risk assesment the same as you would for any place that you choose to take the children in your care.

[Buzz Lightyear]

By it not being registered would just be OFSTEDS way of ensuring that you are treating the area as a place to visit rather than having the doors open for freeflow play.

Yes it would still have the same hazard as now but you'd do a risk assesment the same as you would for any place that you choose to take the children in your care.

Hmm now you see I would like the doors open for freeflow play, especially in the summer as it's a lovely space then, not so much now though - yuk! I want it all you see, haa haa. Fingers crossed my RA will be enough for her.

[sarah707]

You have a lovely space out there and a beautiful view but I can see what they mean about the dangers.

It only takes a second when you turn round to get something or one child needs you and you're not watching the other one or a ball goes over and the child dashes for it... even if you are outside all the time, things can happen. :(

I am sure the inspector will come up with ideas for you to say what will keep Ofsted happy and be really impressed that you've thought it through so well before your pre-reg.

Good luck! xx

[Buzz Lightyear]

Unfortunately, you're absolutely right Sarah :( and I have a strong feeling my supervision wont be enough but at least it shows I've thought about it. What will be, will be, will find out tomorrow. :huh:

[jeanybeany]

Hi

Have you thought about garden trellis, the type that extends. You could somehow hook this on to the wall when you need to use it and unhook it when its just for your family. That way it's not permanent, can still see and feed the ducks and if done right a good safety measure. Just an idea. I would goto your local DIY store and see what is available.

Hope your pre-reg goes well:)

[murphy61]

just wanted to wish you luck with your pre-reg and hope you don't have to do to much if anything to the wall. it looks such a lovely view, and an advantage to the childrens development. i can't even get my double buggy through to the canal by me so that we can feed ducks.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hurrah... she actioned me on the wall but we agreed on a bambo temporary screening which will be secured during the hours of minding and which can be removed when not. She said she is happy for me to feed the ducks over it but of course with care.

Really happy :clapping:

[miffy]

Great news - pleased it's worked out for you

Miffy xx

[jibberjitz]

Hi,

What about some sort of trellis which you could grow stuff up - a good spot for sunflowers maybe? It would be a shame not to be able to use your garden in the summer.

Hope you get it sorted,

Liz

[Buzz Lightyear]

Ofsted were more than happy with the bamboo wall idea as it meant it could be folded back as and when we fed the ducks so I am more than happy with that :clapping:

[murphy61]

Thats great t least you don't need a permanent fixture.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I know.... she said there was no need for anything permenant which was great :clapping:

[Mollymop]

I am glad to hear she was fine with your solution! yippeee

[PixiePetal]

So pleased you got it sorted. I would love ducks at the end of the garden ! Just got allotments :D

[Buzz Lightyear]

They're brilliant, they even fly into the garden when they're feeling cheeky and can even come and take the bread from you. Probably wont happen with mindees though as they could potential try and grab the ducks necks! :D

[sarah707]

That's great news! :D

[Spangles]

That's a relief, good for you!

[ruby]

i am glad that you managed to sort it out

its a lovely back garden and agree it would be awful to have something premanent there


cathy

[Heaven Scent]

Thats brill - most inspectors have got some common sense but there are the few who are just power crazed and have to make problems where solutions are what is needed.

[gemhei]

Lol i think i know where you live i know that area well.

In argos theres some extendable fencing, a bit like trelising and at each side it has weighted bottoms so it cant be knocked over and you could take it down. I had one at the side of my house before i moved so the children couldnt get down side of house my ofsted inspector at my pre-reg said it was a good idea and liked it. I dont know if it would be heavy enough but at least the trellis would go before the child! Might be worth a try and if not you could always use it for something else mine came in handy for all sorts.

Failing that write a specific risk assesment for it, thats what i did with the step in my garden, at my recent inspection the inspector asked about the step i showed her the assesment and she said thats fine. Hope this helps.