Gollys

[DudleyChildmind]

I used to love Gollys when I was a child and I was wondering how many childminders have these now?

[LittleMissSparkles]

my grandma used to have hundreds of them sat on a picture rail that ran round her room, I loved them dont know what happened to them when she died though.

xxx

[ajs]

i have mine from when i was 18 months and it was given to me
it doesn't get played with though as it's almost antique

i think the offence is taken in the name though and they are called Gollies now

[Trouble]

they sell them where i live

not cheap now thought quite expensive

[fionamal]

Ive looked for one for the past 6 years. I loved mine and had to get thrown out as it was thread bare and since daughter was born been looking for one for her.

[Annie_T]

oh i like these, my mum has few oraments not dolls

i know somewhere that did sell them (prob still do but i not been to the town lately - next local town to ours)

[sue m]

I saw some small ones in a greeting card shop in our town recently. Nearly bought one.

[wendywu]

I got a small one from an e bay shop. Just call it a Golly now though:)

[emmadines]

becky was brought one last year for christmas. i still call them what they were originally called, cant help it, its what i grew up knowing them as. its just a name and no racial offence is ment by it in anyway.

[Monkey1]

They sell them in a shop in our town, i can find out the price if you like and send you one x

[DudleyChildmind]

They sell them in a shop in our town, i can find out the price if you like and send you one x

Aww that's very kind of you but I wouldn't expect you to do that but thank you for the offer.

Many years ago when my friend was a childminder so was told she wasn't allowed to have one by Social Services but when our local Early Years Team came out to see me last week I said I wanted one and they didn't say I couldn't have one so I presume they are okay to have now?

I can remember collecting the little stickers on the back of the jam jars and once you have saved enough of them you could send off for a badge. I'm going back a few years though :laughing:

[Helpinghands]

Golliwogs were banned years ago!

[Polly2]

I used to collect the badges! I loved them :)

[wendywu]

I put mine away when i was inspected. Also a very old picture book called little black sambo. I didnt want to risk it :laughing:

[bubbly]

I used to collect the Robinsons Jam tokens as a child and send off for the Golliwog ornaments. We had hundreds of the bloomin' things! They were a big part of my childhood way back then - we all used to collect 'em.

[Tatia]

My husband has a cuddly one from his childhood. It's vile but it has pride of place along with his ancient teddy, on his dresser top.

I found this website, which I thought interesting - http://www.golliwogg.co.uk/

The earliest Golliwog (or Golliwogg as he was originally called) is the hero in books of verse written by Bertha Upton in the 1890s, and illustrated by her daughter Florence. The mother and daughter worked together on twelve illustrated books, all featuring the gallant little character and his adventures travelling to such exotic destinations as Africa and the North Pole, accompanied by his friends, the Dutch Dolls.

Though the original Golliwog character was a kindly fellow always lending a hand to those in trouble, later authors portrayed him very differently. Over the years he became a rascal, was often up to no good, and even portrayed as a mean spirited character. Consequently his reputation slid and because of his poor reputation and dark colour, he began to be considered "politically incorrect". The "politically correct" reference is now "Golly".



I can't see how Golly is any less offensive than the original name , though. It's just a shortened form so means the same thing.

[chaotic_space]

The word wog was once used commonly as a racial slur and is still highly offensive to a great many people. That is why it isnt used any more. It used to be common place to use the word darkie for a black person but how many of you Gollywog lovers would use a word like that now? This isnt the 1950's and racism is no more acceptable than calling someone wearing a hearing aid a spaz.

Id have hoped we as a society would have moved on from such ignorant disregard for the feelings of others.

[a.lmb]

my uncle has my nans and his collection still i use to love collecting tokens off the jams when i was young

[Hebs]

not meaning to sound offensive but any word can be turned into a racial slur

political correctness has gone mad

i mean

a blackboard can't be called a blackboard as it's "offensive" but thats exactly what it is a black board :rolleyes: chalk board they are now but even THAT could be classed as offensive to a white person "chalk white" so what makes one unacceptable and the other ok????


:panic:

[DudleyChildmind]

political correctness has gone mad



I agree :thumbsup:

[babushka]

[QUOTE=hebs;295193]not meaning to sound offensive but any word can be turned into a racial slur

political correctness has gone mad

i mean

a blackboard can't be called a blackboard as it's "offensive" but thats exactly what it is a black board :rolleyes: chalk board they are now but even THAT could be classed as offensive to a white person "chalk white" so what makes one unacceptable and the other ok????


I understand what you mean, if you use the term golly in the correct manner I suppose its ok but think about it, if you called a black person a gollywog don't you think they would take offence, as i'm sure you are aware alot of people in the past have taken offence to this term, it's like saying to a caucasian person " you caveman " in jest, i'm surprised this discussion has allowed to continue as i'm sure alot of people are going to be outraged.:panic:

[chaotic_space]

not meaning to sound offensive but any word can be turned into a racial slur

Very true. It is the context in which a word is used that makes the difference between an innocent word/expression and a slur. Most of us understand the difference. I dont think anyone could be considered a racist because they collect gollywog dolls, that would be absurd however the word wog is a commonly used (even in our more enlightened times) as a racial slur and to compare its use with changing black board to chalk board is splitting hairs.

[andreaschildcare]

we have one!

[Pauline]

i'm surprised this discussion has allowed to continue as i'm sure alot of people are going to be outraged.:panic:

Perhaps you could explain why you think the discussion should be stopped? I'm not sure what people will be outraged about. I've looked back over the thread and the discussion all seems to be against any form of racism, unless I've missed something.

Unfortunately rascism happens and it is ok to discuss it IMHO, it shouldn't be swept under the carpet and hope it goes away.

But if anyone is offended by this thread then please get in touch with me and I will remove it.

[crazybones]

I cant see anything offensive in this thread. Racism is everywhere in some shape or form and it isnt as simple as black and white. How many people have made "jokes" about scousers (Breezy :laughing: ), cockneys, red heads, etc. The fact that we are able to discuss it freely is correct and can only be a good thing.

[Hebs]

I understand what you mean, if you use the term golly in the correct manner I suppose its ok but think about it, if you called a black person a gollywog don't you think they would take offence, as i'm sure you are aware alot of people in the past have taken offence to this term, it's like saying to a caucasian person " you caveman " in jest, i'm surprised this discussion has allowed to continue as i'm sure alot of people are going to be outraged.:panic:

no one is saying we would call anyone a gollywog, and yes i do KNOW they would take offence
the point i TRIED to make was that any word can been taken offensively, it's just political coreectness gone mad when simple words such as "blackboard" are renamed as to not cause offence when it is at the end of the day a BLACK BOARD! unless they rename the word black i think any work with links to race are going to be targetted next.

no one is saying we agree with racial slurs..... far from it :thumbsup:

[Tatia]

I can see the point being made - that Golliwogs themselves are offensive. They're a stereo-typically racist caricature of black people, no matter what they are called. I think they are reprehensible and I despise the one my husband has though it has sentimental value to him because he has had it from childhood.

The new term Golly is no better because it is still simply a shortened form of Golliwog which is a disgusting racial slur. Golly is like saying Paki or Pikey. They don't sound like horrible words unless you know where they originate.

It has nothing to do with political correctness at all. The term was a slur before anyone ever even heard the term PC. It's like saying you can't use the 'n' word because of political correctness. Uh no, you can't use racial slurs, period. And golliwog or wog (and it's cutesy shortened form of golly) is a racial slur.

And just to make sure sure everyone knows, I am not lashing out or feeling angry or anything. Just adding my 2 cents to an interesting debate.:)

[Hebs]

yes golliwog is a racial slur (in my eyes) and i hate the N word

personally i don't like them, just like i don't like porceline dolls and cabbage patch dolls

the point i was trying to make is that ANY word can become a racial slur if used in the wrong terms.


i am not in any means a racist, so i hope it didn't come across that way :thumbsup:

[Hebs]

Here is a history of the Gollywog

The earliest Golliwog is the hero in books of verse written by Bertha Upton in the 1890's, and illustrated by her daughter Florence

so if we go back to the REAL gollywog it is actually a good role model for kids


:thumbsup: just incase you didn't know

[Tatia]

i am not in any means a racist, so i hope it didn't come across that way
Nope, it didn't come across like that and I never thought that, either.:)

[Heaven Scent]

I saw them recently in a shop in Warrington I don't know the name of it but it was a small department store - not TJ Hughes - if there is anyone from Warrington on here they may be able to throw a little light on the subject. Someone may have posted something along these lines on here already but I didn't have time to read the whole thread - I only read the first few - and yes apparently so long as you call them a gollie then no offence should be taken. However I think the labels on the ones in the shop in question said the name as ist written in the title.

The other important thing about these in this particular shop is that surprisingly, they were not expensive, all the others I have seen in recent years were outrageously expensive.

[babushka]

In no wise am I trying to shove racism under the carpet that is why I pick up on this discussion. Why do you think the gollywog was taken off the robinsons jar in the 80s, because black people were offended, i'm sure if this discussion was taken to the wider public, you would have innumerable complaints, black people take offence to the word fullstop.

[crazybones]

In no wise am I trying to shove racism under the carpet that is why I pick up on this discussion. Why do you think the gollywog was taken off the robinsons jar in the 80s, because black people were offended, i'm sure if this discussion was taken to the wider public, you would have innumerable complaints, black people take offence to the word fullstop.

I think everyone understands and agrees with that but forgive my ignorance but I dont see what could cause offence in this discussion. I have been interested in origin of the gollywog which I have learned from this post and can totally understand why it could be offensive but there is nothing offensive been written here as far as I can see.

[babushka]

not meaning to sound offensive but any word can be turned into a racial slur

political correctness has gone mad

i mean

a blackboard can't be called a blackboard as it's "offensive" but thats exactly what it is a black board :rolleyes: chalk board they are now but even THAT could be classed as offensive to a white person "chalk white" so what makes one unacceptable and the other ok????


:panic:


My reply was inregards to this comment

[Pauline]

black people take offence to the word fullstop.

I can understand that and see your point and for that reason, to avoid offence with the word (as I would with any offensive word or swear word) I've edited to remove it and replaced with the word Golly as we need a descriptive word for the conversation and I can't think of any other.

But I know that the original poster did not mean it as any offence and was just asking an innocent question.

[DudleyChildmind]

I'm really sorry if my thread about Golliwogs has caused a stir, this is not what I had intended at all and I'm very sorry :blush:

I have very happy memories of collecting golliwog badges from the jam jars and I often talk to the children about things I used to do as a child and I thought it would be nice to discuss it here. If I am able to buy a golliwog and share my childhood memories with the children I will as I'm sure they would love to hear all about it.

My apologies if this thread has offended anyone :(

[Hebs]

Why do you think the gollywog was taken off the robinsons jar in the 80s, because black people were offended,

but to look at the wider context (as i was trying to point out) you need to look at the origins of the Golywog,

The Gollywog was actually a HERO in a set of childrens book which is why Robinsons put it on the jars in the first place, when the term became offensive they removed it (rightly so too ) so this proves my view point that any word can become racist if used in the wrong way.

The OBJECT is not racist it's the PEOPLE who use it in this context

:D

[Tatia]

Hebs, I respectfully disagree. :) The object itself is totally racist, name aside. They're a stereo-type of black people, a caricature of flashing eyes, wooly hair and big lips. Dudleychildmind, I'd caution you to think about sharing them with mindees because I can't imagine OFSTED would consider them a positive representation of black people. I don't believe for a second you intended to cause a stir or that you are racist.

I'm trying very hard to express my views without offending anyone else. I hope it's working.:o

[crazybones]

I agree with you Tatia about object itself but I also see Hebs point about renaming a blackboard when that is what it is. To me the two things are at total opposite ends of a scale and where is the line drawn in the future? I agree it is hard to say what you want without thinking you might offend.

[chaotic_space]

I'm really sorry if my thread about Golliwogs has caused a stir, this is not what I had intended at all and I'm very sorry :blush:

Your thread opened up healthy debate and discussion, that is never something to be sorry for.

Just because we don't all agree doesn't mean we do not respect each others opinions and points of view. :)

[Hebs]

Hebs, I respectfully disagree. :) The object itself is totally racist, name aside.

I'm trying very hard to express my views without offending anyone else. I hope it's working.:o

:laughing: i'm also trying very hard to express my views.... not working is it :blush:

what i was TRYING to say is that the doll wasn't offensive until someone (or lots of people) started using the term in an offensive manor. cos when you think about it, for aprox 30/40 years they were classed as a good icon thanks to the books, hence them being on jars,


oooooooooh i give up :laughing:

[angeldelight]

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[angeldelight]

I'm really sorry if my thread about Golliwogs has caused a stir, this is not what I had intended at all and I'm very sorry :blush:

I have very happy memories of collecting golliwog badges from the jam jars and I often talk to the children about things I used to do as a child and I thought it would be nice to discuss it here. If I am able to buy a golliwog and share my childhood memories with the children I will as I'm sure they would love to hear all about it.

My apologies if this thread has offended anyone :(


I dont think its offended anyone from time to time we do get posts that not everyone agrees on
It does us all good to read and understand everyones views

No harm in that and no harm meant in your thread I wouldnt worry about it Dudley

Angel xx

[Tatia]

what i was TRYING to say is that the doll wasn't offensive until someone (or lots of people) started using the term in an offensive manor. cos when you think about it, for aprox 30/40 years they were classed as a good icon thanks to the books, hence them being on jars,
I get what you are saying, I really do. But the fact is, the Uncle Tom, black sambo connotations of the dolls were always offensive. There was never a time that was ethically okay. It was just socially acceptable. That doesn't make it morally correct.

I'd like to say thanks to everyone involved in this mature discussion. It makes me proud to be a member of this site, when we can all exchange our POVs in a healthy manner.

[Hebs]

yes a healthy debate which doesn't develop into a sl##ing match is always a good thing :thumbsup:

it is good to be able to discuss things and get everyones views xx

[DudleyChildmind]

Dudleychildmind, I'd caution you to think about sharing them with mindees because I can't imagine OFSTED would consider them a positive representation of black people. I don't believe for a second you intended to cause a stir or that you are racist.



I might ask Ofsted when I have my inpsection and I'll let you know what they say.

I had a visit from the Early years team just before Christmas and I was telling them that I would like a golliwog and would I be allowed. Their reply was "I can't see why not". :)

[singlewiththree]

Its funny really as my friend brought me one of these round the other day she was trying to help with the ethnic dolls for ofsted :) I immediately hit it from my children as didn't know how to explain what it was and saw it as taboo. Growing up I had a dressing up outfit of a zulu warrior, my nanna had made it for my auntie to wear as a child so it was very old but there got to a point that I had to stop wearing it as it became taboo. The face mask was similar to one of these dolls however I wore a grass skirt and had a spear. I loved that dressing up outfit but in the end my mum threw it away in the 80's as it wasn't acceptable anymore.

[Tatia]

I might ask Ofsted when I have my inpsection and I'll let you know what they say.
I'd be very interested in what they say.:) I have a suitable person interview coming up at pre-school next week and had already thought I might ask them. It will, of course, be like any other OFSTED query. It'll depend upon the inspector and what they had for breakfast that morning!:rolleyes: :laughing:

[DudleyChildmind]

I had my inpsection today and I left my golli on the shelf so I could ask Ofsted what their thoughts were on it. All the inspector kept saying was "It's very negative". I told her that I had left it out to remind me to ask her about it and she said again "It's very negative". I explained that we were going to do an activity on our memories and that I had such a lot of happy memories of the golli and I wanted to share them with the children. She just repeated herself again and I said it's a shame it's come to this. I then put the golli away :(

[jibberjitz]

awwww they were a fave of mine as a child too, not seen any for years!!

Liz

[kindredspirits]

i would have hoped, in this day and age of a 'multicultural' britain, we could share 'golliwogs' with children explaining how when there were less ethnic people around this was how they were portrayed. i do think that if you are going to have them - then you might as well call them golliwogs, lets face it - if you consider the doll itself to be offensive you could call it brian, it would still be offensive :rolleyes: i used to love them in the noddy books, which i still had the old ones from my grandparents house!

[Cammie Doodle]

Hubby bought me one not so long back and it was sold as a Golly Dolly.