PDA

View Full Version : Bad behaviour - help!



Scarlett
14-10-2008, 09:55 PM
Hi, I am newly minding and have 2 babies of 15 months.

They were both OK for the first few weeks but now 6 weeks in one of them has got very nasty with the other. I have this child 5 days a week and the other one just 3 days so I am thinking it's maybe a jealousy thing as she wants my attention as is sharing it on the days when I have the 2nd child. I don't know where to go from here as she is too young for time out and I am now worried the other child will leave as the mother is aware of the issue as he has had some very nasty scratches etc and hair pulled out whilst in the double buggy! (she is fast as lightening!) The mother of the injured child is understandably VERY concerned!

I don't know what to do!!!! Please help! I am meeting with the mother in the morning to discuss it.

sarah707
15-10-2008, 07:13 AM
It's very hard when 2 children don't get on... or one hurts the other for no apparent reason.

Like you say it probably is jealousy.

You need to tackle it consistently with support from parents.

With some children very firm 'no' and a few moments plonked in a travel cot (safe but apart for a short time) while the hurt child is lavished with attention can work wonders, even at such a young age.

Can you put mittens on the aggressor in the buggy? Fasten them to her coat and keep putting them back on every time she tries to take them off. that will stop her scratching and they will slide through hair.

Hopefully this is only short term but positive behaviour management techniques like emphasising the good, encouraging gentle behaviour, playing with dolls in a gentle way etc are always helpful. The other thing you might need to do for a while is shadow the aggressor and pop one child in the playpen - with lots of toys, not as a punishment but to keep her safe, while you cook or go to the loo.


I hope it resolves xx

PixiePetal
15-10-2008, 07:16 AM
You are doing the right thing by meeting with parent to discuss. You need to be together on his one, hopefully things will settle.

I minded an 18 month biter when my son was 10 months and he was the target. She spent a few minutes sitting watching others play each time she bit him, soon got the message. Bit older I know but consistency is the key.

Good luck :)

Jen

Chatterbox Childcare
15-10-2008, 07:18 AM
What about a care plan/ABC Chart? You can then watch and record when and where the attacks are taking place and maybe pre empt them next time.

Scarlett
15-10-2008, 08:24 AM
Thank you I think the travel cots are a very good idea to keep the babies apart while in the toilet etc! I shadow them all day but she is just so fast that I can't always stop her!

Does anyone think that more socialisation with other children would help her? I take her to a toddler group or play area almost everyday but she still gets almost one on one attention from me and is very clingy when out. I almost wonder if a day in nursery would be better for her than a day alone with me (but obviously I wouldn't want to lose her altogether) I don't think the one on one time is going to help with this behaviour but I also don't want it to look like I am giving up on her! I don't plan to mind any more children at the moment on the days when she is alone.

sarah707
15-10-2008, 08:27 AM
Nooooo... not really... nurseries can throw up more problems than they solve in my experience.

Also it's good for the child to have one to one... but maybe try and take her out that day to a group so she does get to play with others.

Scarlett
15-10-2008, 08:57 AM
I take her out to groups on both of the days she is alone with me already but she still has my personal attention rather than sharing it with other children.

I have got the mother of the aggressor to sign an incident report and she is keen to do what she can to help sort the situation. should I be doing anything else? Maybe setting a target time in which to resolve the matter as she has now physically harmed him and it's no longer just pushing and pulling? Or is that too harsh? I don't want the other mother to think nothing is being done about it though and remove her child.

finbob
15-10-2008, 09:19 AM
dont worry they grow out of it my son when he couldnt show his emotions he used to bite and i mean bite the children used to go home with round marks on their arms and legs i was very consistent with saying no and saying sorry and i also kept an eye on when he did it. with him he liked his own space so when someone crowded him he did it so i also told children to play elsewhere when i could see he was getting stressed. He now knows to walk away and the biting has stopped thank goodness because it didnt look good when i had to tell parents and i felt terrible.He is now at nursery and everyones attacking him at least i know hes gone through that stage b4 nursery.

sarah707
15-10-2008, 09:24 AM
A friend of mine gave notice for a child who was exhibiting a range of tricky behaviours including biting, kicking, scratching, shouting in other children's faces... the child was just 2.

My friend really did try everything she could think of to support the aggressor... but what she didn't do was flag up her concerns with anyone else or write anything down. She didn't know how to get help and she wasn't sure what to write except doing accident forms and incident reports for the parents.

The child's parents were furious when she eventually said sorry, I've tried everything I can, I don't know what else to do, I'm about to lose other children, I'm going to have to give notice. They complained to Ofsted who came out and upheld the complaint because she didn't have proof that she had tried - the complaint was that she was unable to manage a range of behaviours.

So... advice from this ... document everything. Write down what the child is doing, how the other child is affected, what you are doing to support both children, how you are shadowing and the behaviour techniques you are using. Write down what parents have said to you and how you are involving them. Get permission to take advice from the child's health visitor and to share what you are doing to manage the situation with the other parents. Have regular meetings with the parents - maybe weekly - and by all means set a time scale to see improvements but document this so you can look back and see if it really is getting better.

Hth

Scarlett
15-10-2008, 06:04 PM
Thank you all!!!

I have bought some mittens for the aggressor and have a travel cot ready in the lounge for tomorrow. I have discussed my plans with the parents of the aggressor and will explain to the parents of the other child in the morning.

I have written down what we discussed today and set a review date for 1 months time and got the mum to sign as agreeing to this. Hopefully this will cover it!

Thanks again :)

Nettynoo
17-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Good luck and I hope it works!!! I have a similar thing going on but it is my 2 year old daughter who is so excited when 17 month old girl mindee arrives that she knocks her over with her enthusiasm!!! Can't stop mangling her and cuddling her!!! How do you tell a 2 year old to calm down and to stop being nice?!!!!!!!!

Scarlett
28-10-2008, 10:25 PM
Well not alot has improved in fact I'd say today was the worst ever.

She was bouncing off the walls it seemed, not only attacking the other child but when he was being protected she was pulling books off shelves, throwing toys and shaking the play kitchen back and forth!

I put her in the kitchen with some toys behind a stair gate to separate them while I went to the toilet but I came out to her having pulled over a kitchen chair and pushing another about!

I am meeting with the mum again tomorrow but I am not sure what to suggest next. i am thinking she should maybe speak to the health visitor. Could it be ADHD? I have no experiance of it but I didn't think it presented so young but the anti social attacks and endless buzzing about without settling to do anything in between sound quite like she could actually have a problem but I am not qualified to suggest this surely! The mum could take great offense! I am a little stuck and getting VERY stressed!

acorns
28-10-2008, 10:48 PM
ADD show's up from pregnancy/birth - ask any parent with a child who has it!!:D. So it is a possibility, but so are a number of other disorders. I would say to the parent of the agressor that the behaviour (keep it to the behaviour & not the child) is becoming increasingly difficult to manage despite you trying abc etc is there something going on in her life that you ought to know about to help you understand where this behaviour comes from? If not(or even if there is) I think the health visitor needs to speak with you & parent to then make a decision on the child & family being referred on for further help. If she does have a behavioural disorder she needs help now and parents needs to understand that you have the child's best interests at heart. Also try to end the discussion with praise for their child so they dont feel too bad (I know having been on the receiving end of several of these discussions in the last 8 years!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Scarlett
28-10-2008, 10:57 PM
Thanks, that sounds like a fair plan. The mum is aware as she said from the start that the child is very active and this has proved true, I have never seen a child like her!! She can demolish a room in seconds if left unguarded but she is the sweetest little thing ever and quiet cuddly on calm days!

Even if the parents don't need extra support (I have her 5 days a week and she is on her own with 2 of them at the weekend) ....I do!!

acorns
28-10-2008, 11:08 PM
I know exactly what you mean about calm days:) (there's just not enough of them!!) Dr Christpher green (he of toddler taming fame) does a good book about add & related disorders, it's worth seeing if you can borrow it from the library.

Scarlett
30-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Hmmm I spoke to 'mum' and she has decided that she doesn't think there is a problem!! She doesn't want to call her health visitor for advice as she thinks that she will grow out of it. In the meantime I am tearing my hair out! Maybe she is calmer at home in her own environment but here with other children she most certainly has an exceptional energy level. It is easier to handle 1 on 1 as I find on my days which are solely with this child but on the days with others I find I am neglecting them in order to control her!

What do I do?! Can I go over her head to the Health Visitor? (This would likely cause resentment however) I am keeping a record of her behavior and have written down the characteristics displayed for 'mum' and am managing as best I can but I don't know where I stand. I am tempted to say I cannot care for her but I have a duty of care and would feel awful about that but I am exhausted from this one child and the other child is bearing the brunt of alot of her actions and then not getting the attention he deserves the rest of the time!

Kelly
30-10-2008, 01:30 PM
If you are considering giving notice, you need to heed Sarah's advice, you could find yourself in all sorts of trouble. If the mum has decided that outside help is not necessary you need to document it. I really feel for you, I have had this as well. I had to buy a tandem pushchair because the LO attacked the other LO I looked after every time they where in the double buggy:eek: I did tried different methods of observations to see if I could find the triggers, everything. In the end she just stopped!!!

I would be careful labeling the child, it is a stressful time for LO's they are trying to find a way of communicating, sometimes they just use a way that is not exceptable to us, we just have to try and find another way for them to communicate without hurting anyone!!! easier said than done and like me it will probably pass before you find that way :rolleyes: I'm not sure I am making any sense at all now.....

Scarlett
30-10-2008, 03:46 PM
No that makes perfect sense Kelly. I don't want to label her especially as I am not qualified to do so I just wanted some help and advice from a professional.

I have documented everything and have 2 week reviews set where I am writing down and getting 'mum' to sign for what's been sad on both sides at that meeting so hopefully I am covered. Should she be signing each days behaviour observations too though?

acorns
30-10-2008, 03:55 PM
If you have tried all you can (i.e. various behaviour management techniques), parents are refusing to accept there is a problem (maybe it will go away but it's still a problem right now which needs addressing) and you have documented Everything, including all your discussions with parents, then i dont see that you have any option other than terminating. Her behaviour is unlikely to just go away without her being helped by parents as well as you & as they dont think there's a problem this ain't gonna happen. In the meantime the other children (& you) in your care are on the receiving end of it so it's very unfair on all concerned.