View Full Version : 4 year old at school (for the hundredth time!)

22-08-2008, 10:18 AM

I know this has been asked a thousand times but I havent really been paying attention. :o

I have had an enquiry for a little boy who will be starting school in September. Hes four years old. As far as Im aware he can be considered in the older age group....except! For the first three weeks he will be part time on a gradual increase.

Ive also been asked to take on a full time 2 year old. Dont really want to send the four year old away for the sake of three weeks. Dont think I would get a variation because a) both want to start in two weeks so not enough time to organise it and b) neither of them have already been with me, so no continuity of care. (Although BOTH parents shockingly have been using unregistered childcare! :angry: )

So. I only have one space to give away. What do I do? Can I take on the four year old? Im so confused by Ofsteds rule on this, despite the clarifications!!!


22-08-2008, 11:08 AM
my own son is doing this he starts school but for 4 weeks is part time so until his full time hes still classed as 4 after which he'll be 5 for ofsted purposes.
i would take the 2 yr old over the 4 yr old anyway though as that will be full time pay all day rather than just before / after school for the school aged child.
hope that makes sense!

22-08-2008, 11:09 AM
I would think the 4 yr old would be classed as over 5's as he will be full time in a matter of weeks. It is a pain really that all schools have their own system for settling in periods, if they were all the same would make life lot easier. I would give Ofsted a quick call.

22-08-2008, 11:54 AM
I persoannly would take the 2 year old. You have to think longterm as the 4 year old will only be before and after school once fulltime at school

22-08-2008, 11:55 AM
i had this a few years ago give ofsted a ring they just sent me a cover letter for the period:)

22-08-2008, 11:59 AM
I was kind of hoping I would be able to take both! :p

Thanks for all your replies...I phoned Ofsted...they didnt know!! :laughing: Someones going to phone me back (apparently!). I did feel sorry for the person on the phone...he sounded really embaressed! Anyway - while I wait for them to figure it out, please can anyone on here tell me?

Hopefully they will do what they did with Mimo if its going to be a problem.


22-08-2008, 01:55 PM
i know we have a little boy starting in september and he is going full time

all the other years start on wed 3rd
but new ones dont start till the firday some are going moring and the nsome afternoon same on monday and there start fulltime on tesday

so he will be classied as 4 year old untill starts fulltime on the tesday

we dont know when the little boy is going to start coming to us mum jsut septmber now if she wonts home to come the week begining 1st septmber he came come ever day but monday as we are full during day on monday but can fit him other days no problem, and he wont be able to come the monday after either(as full on mondays).

Chatterbox Childcare
22-08-2008, 02:14 PM

To clear up the confusion on this;

Ofsted rules are that a 4 year old is classed as 5 and not in the Under 5 rations once they attend school for 10 sessions per week.

This means that if you had both children you would be over your numbers for the 3 weeks settling in period.

I would send Ofsted an email applying for an overlap. They will grant it for 3 weeks, you won't be breaking the law and you will then have insurance.


22-08-2008, 04:55 PM


"It is important to note that from 1st September 2008 if one of the conditions refers to children aged 5 it will be treated as a condition relating to children in the early years age group, which includes children from birth to the 31st August following a child's 5th birthday. You can only provide care for a maximum of 3 children the early age group and the applicable ratio is one childminder to every three children"

This came with my list of requirments for the childcare register


22-08-2008, 05:02 PM
I received this email from Ofsted the other day - I hope it clarifies the situation :D

Dear Ms Neville,

Thank you for your e-mail.

The old category of children under five will be replaced by the new younger years age group (children aged from birth to the 31st of August following their fifth birthday). Ratios will need to be applied to this new age range. However you can continue to apply rising fives to allow children to be counted as older than the younger years age group for the purposes of ratios when they attend at least ten early education sessions a week.
Please see below for the relevant requirement as stated in the statutory framework document appendix 2:

'Each childminder may care for:
• a maximum of six children under the age of eight;
• of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children (birth to the 31st of august following his/her 5th birthday) however where four- and five-year-old children only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio;
• normally, no more than one child may be under the age of one, however a childminder may be registered to care for two children under the age of one where they are able to demonstrate that they can meet and reconcile the individual needs of all the children being cared for.
• Exceptions to these ratios can be made for siblings and to provide continuity of care in certain
• circumstances approved by Ofsted, provided that the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for does not exceed six.
• If a childminder either employs an assistant or works with another childminder, the above numbers apply to each of these individuals in addition to the childminder.'

Also note extended ratios due to assistants can also be continued but again will refer to children from birth to the 31st of august following their 5th birthday rather than the previous band of under 5s (see final point above).
Again rising fives can be applied to these ratios.

We have received confirmation from the Department for Children, Schools and Families that the change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement. Reference is made to children attending the childminding setting before and after the school day only to specify which children may be counted as five. Therefore, the EYFS does not prevent four and five year olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays.

I hope the information I have provided will be of some assistance to you. If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kerry Smith
Customer Service Advisor
Ofsted - National Business Unit
TEL: 08456 404040

22-08-2008, 05:39 PM
Hello all - quick update. Have spoken to Ofsted...lovely lady on the phone.Why cant they be that lovely when they come round ey??!

Anyway - as everyone has already said, it applies to after "normal" school hours, so have decided to offer the place to the wee lad once he starts full time. Its only three weeks so hopefully they will be able to find something temporary then come to me mid-Sept.

Thanks for all the advice...I'd laugh if they both said no thanks after all this!!!