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View Full Version : Awful Ofsted Experience - technical advice please (and moral support)



leeloo1
03-03-2016, 08:18 AM
I've realised this is super long... so I've copied and pasted the KEY INFO - re Grading - which is what I really need urgent advice on in a new post below)

Apologies as I don't post here that often, but I could really, really do with some help, so would appreciate any advice as I know some of you are very experienced on the technical side of childminding.

I had my Ofsted (from Tribal if that makes a difference) inspection yesterday. I had 2 days notice of it as she called on Monday morning. I asked if it could be deferred as I had a new baby starting for full days on Monday (had done 5 hours over 3 days previous week, so a big step up) and my 2 x 2 year olds are unsettled by the change and I wanted to give them my full attention, but she insisted no as you aren't allowed more than 5 days notice.

She came at 9.15 and left at 3.30 - although she offered to leave for "5 or 10 minutes" at 1.20 so I could finally get the kids to sleep - I asked her to come back at 2, which she did - it barely gave me time to get all 3 down, but not enough time to eat anything. Whilst she was here she ran me ragged. Except when I was doing the shared observation she kept interrupting me when I was with the children (e.g. 3 times during a short story - the child got bored and wandered off as I had to keep stopping to answer her. I feel like she was disorganised and kept flicking between subjects and it shouldn't have taken this long.

It was insanely hard, as the 1 year old wouldn't be put down without howling, the 2 x 2 year olds (baby's brother and my own toddler) were climbing the walls as used to being out/having attention, but I stayed calm and did my best.

I'd left everything in files, clearly labelled, but she'd keep asking me e.g. "so, risk assessments.." - so I had to come and find them, instead of looking in the file herself. Also, while the kids were eating lunch and I was trying to feed the new baby she asked me to go and find proof that I give the Ofsted complaints information to the parents (I email it in my handbook - instead of having a poster up) and to find the 2 year progress check - and to find the proof I give that to the parents - as apparently they should sign and date it to say I gave it to them! Luckily I have email trails to prove it.

In hindsight I should have said 'no I'm busy', but I was a bit flustered and just wanted her to finish and go!

But here's the awful bit... In 2012 I registered my mum as my assistant and she worked for me for about 12 days over 3 months in Aug/Sept/Oct 2013 - whilst I was very pregnant and then settling the children back in after 4 weeks mat leave. I have a log of when she worked, and the few brief times she was alone with the children and why, her paediatric first aid and CRB check, details of when she was inducted and shown policies, explained ethos of setting etc (signed), that I checked my insurance covered her.

She hasn't worked for me since then, but I kept her registered 'just in case'. So, when Ofsted lady went off at 1.20, she said she had to make a phone call to her supervisor as I didn't have a 'disclosure about disqualification by association' form signed. She said it meant she couldn't give me my Outstanding, and it should be an automatic requires improvement but she might be able to get me a good. Obv I was very shocked.

Having looked online I see this wasn't a requirement when I registered my mum and she hasn't been 'active' since it was a requirement... but still obv my fault as on record she's still my assistant, I asked if I could call Ofsted and say I'd forgotten to notify them of a change of circumstances - or get the form signed today, to rectify this but she said no. Obv thats understandable too. :(

When she came back she said there were 2 things I could do - call and de-register my assistant while she was there and get good; or accept the requires improvement. As I don't have this disclosure form (so a safeguarding fail) and I don't have minutes of meetings and signed dates of appraisals/targets etc (so a leadership and management fail too). She said I could re-register her again straight away if I wanted to (pointless!)

I took the first option:(, but asked if I would have got outstanding otherwise and she said yes. I know that all the gradings for every area have to only be good only because it was a safeguarding issue, but she also said that her comments have to reflect the grading. She said if she said my teaching and behaviour management was exemplary then she'd be asked to rewrite it as the comments have to match the grade - how is this fair?

She said not to be disheartened, that if I keep doing everything as I am now then I'll get outstanding again next time (its been 6 years since my last inspection, so I suspect I'll be 'good' for a while). She praised my exemplary teaching, calm manner with the children, open body language, lovely setting and resources and other stuff thats now a blur.

Her improvement ideas for me were a behaviour thing - she said she thinks my daughter doesn't want to share her toys because they're hers (she's also 29 months old!) - I managed this (as well as I can with O lady constantly demanding attention) - making d ask, wait, take turns, share etc and reminding mindee to say 'I'm using it you can have a turn in a minute' - to be fair, mindee also wants to come and take whatever my d has (which is fine - I model same thing for him). She noted my d is dominant and mindee is passive - I said I knew, its their natures, but I'm working on it and have bought books about confidence, standing up for yourself etc and encourage him and insist that she shares, is kind - apologises when she's not etc. I said it was hard though, as obv its my daughter's home. She agreed with everything I said and wasn't sure how she'd phrase it but she thinks there's an issue with the 'pecking order'.

I honestly do try to treat them the same, but I do think imposing boundaries is easier for mindees - and these will be relaxed for them when they're at home, whereas for my d this is her home - and the boundaries are obv blurred.

Other idea for improvement was to ask parents and mindees to be more involved in the setting - they are fully involved with observations/reports etc etc and I do ask them to share if activities / events at home went well or if they want me to do/support them in anything, but she wants me to do a questionnaire so I have evidence.

The whole thing just feels so shabby. She was very nit-picky all the way through about my record keeping - I have highlighted excel spreadsheet with the EYOs by age where I record my observations, then a matching paper colour coded tracker where I just highlight the 'achieved' EYOs, every 3-4 months and use this for summative reports to the parents. She said I should just photocopy the EYFS and date when they've achieved something (where would the evidence be?). She also didn't understand the PACEY register, as she kept saying 'but its not the 29/2 - and I had to keep explaining, yes but it says 'Week Beginning' - 29/2 was Monday and its now Wednesday. In the end she grudgingly accepted it, but said she thought an old style school register was best. She did say I could use whatever system I like, and that she had no preference, but she clearly did and I felt very criticised throughout the procedure.

Sorry again, that this is such a rant. I feel so exhausted and I've clearly failed myself and the lovely children (who overall were stars during a very trying day) and I just want to howl. On the plus side the parents of the mindees have been so supportive (yeah, sorry Ofsted not so confidential!) and have asked if they can do anything to help persuade Ofsted/provide references, which I hugely appreciate.

So (well done if you've managed to read all this!) I just wanted any advice on if this sounds fair/right. Most importantly, can I argue against the grading - as perhaps I should just have de-registered my mum when she was no longer needed (when I called Ofsted to notify them the lady said 'don't you want to leave her registered 'just in case?'"!)- and couldn't this just be a case where I failed to notify them of a change of circumstances? Or do I deserve this (I probably do).

leeloo1
03-03-2016, 08:26 AM
But here's the awful bit... In 2012 I registered my mum as my assistant and she worked for me for about 12 days over 3 months in Aug/Sept/Oct 2013 - whilst I was very pregnant and then settling the children back in after 4 weeks mat leave. I have a log of when she worked, and the few brief times she was alone with the children and why, her paediatric first aid and CRB check, details of when she was inducted and shown policies, explained ethos of setting etc (signed), that I checked my insurance covered her.

She hasn't worked for me since then, but I kept her registered 'just in case'. So, when Ofsted lady went off at 1.20, she said she had to make a phone call to her supervisor as I didn't have a 'disclosure about disqualification by association' form signed. She said it meant she couldn't give me my Outstanding, and it should be an automatic requires improvement but she might be able to get me a good. Obv I was very shocked.

Having looked online I see this wasn't a requirement when I registered my mum and she hasn't been 'active' since it was a requirement... but still obv my fault as on record she's still my assistant, I asked if I could call Ofsted and say I'd forgotten to notify them of a change of circumstances. But she said no.

When she came back she said there were 2 things I could do - call and de-register my assistant while she was there and get good; or accept the requires improvement. As I don't have this disclosure form (so a safeguarding fail) and I don't have minutes of meetings and signed dates of appraisals/targets etc (so a leadership and management fail too). She said I could re-register her again straight away if I wanted to (pointless!)

I took the first option, but asked if I would have got outstanding otherwise and she said yes. I know that all the gradings for every area can only be good because it was a safeguarding issue, but she also said that her comments have to reflect the grading. She said if she said my teaching and behaviour management was exemplary then she'd be asked to rewrite it as the comments have to match the grade - how is this fair?

So (well done if you've managed to read all this!) I just wanted any advice on if this sounds fair/right. Most importantly, can I argue against the grading - as perhaps I should just have de-registered my mum when she was no longer needed (when I called Ofsted to notify them the lady said 'don't you want to leave her registered 'just in case?'"!)- and couldn't this just be a case where I failed to notify them of a change of circumstances? Or do I deserve this (I probably do).

Simona
03-03-2016, 08:45 AM
If you need to sort this out you only have a limited time to appeal or do something about it....take a little time to think about what you want to do
get someone to read the report for you so they can help you

Contact your EY team and get support...if your grade is below Good it is their duty to help you
if you belong to an association call them and get help so you know how to complain/appeal

According to the Ofsted guidance the inspector gave you the right notice and the inspection could not be deferred...do check it for accuracy

It is a stressful situation but hope you can get help

Mouse
03-03-2016, 09:54 AM
What an awful experience for you :(

My friend runs a pre-school and they had something similar happen recently. They'd overlooked getting some paperwork signed by a new committee member and were given an immediate "requires improvement". It was something they could have put right very easily and at no time were any children ever at risk, but the inspector wouldn't budge and failed them on safeguarding. She said there was nothing she could do about it so it sounds like you were actually quite lucky that your inspector looked into it for you and gave you the opportunity to do as much as you could to put it right while she was still there. Horrible as the whole experience was, it does sound as if she was being more than fair on that point. Everything else at the pre-school was very good and their inspection report reads well. It sounds as if your inspector was quite complimentary about other things she saw so hopefully your report will read better than you're expecting.

Have a read through the inspection handbook and see if there's anything you feel deserves a complaint. Certainly the length of the inspection seems excessive. Unfortunately I wouldn't have thought you could challenge the grade as you did have an important safeguarding document missing. Maybe once you see how your report reads you might feel happier about it. Try to concentrate on the fact that your parents and children are obviously more than happy - that's what's important :group hug:

chris goodyear
03-03-2016, 11:50 AM
What an awful inspector! I had a 5 and a half hours inspection last year so I can sympathise with you on that point, my daughter and myself (she is my assistant) had no lunch just cups of tea all during the time and my inspector didn't disappear at all till she had finished. I can't agree with Mouse in that your inspector was fair because how I read it she was being very unreasonable in many ways. Sending you big hugs and just believe in yourself! Your parents wouldn't stay if you weren't doing a good job with their children and that's what counts!!

Mouse
03-03-2016, 12:16 PM
I can't agree with Mouse in that your inspector was fair because how I read it she was being very unreasonable in many ways.

I purely meant she was fair in allowing leeloo to phone Ofsted there and then to have her mum removed as an assistant. From my friends situation it shows that some inspectors would give an immediate require improvement grade without giving the provider any chance to put it right.

The rest of the inspections sounds rather haphazard and unprofessional, but with regard to the missing document I do think she was fair.

mama2three
03-03-2016, 12:49 PM
but she also said that her comments have to reflect the grading. She said if she said my teaching and behaviour management was exemplary then she'd be asked to rewrite it as the comments have to match the grade - how is this fair?

This is the bit that I would want to challenge. The facts are the facts , and her comments should be factual , not rewritten to match the grade descriptors.

Maza
03-03-2016, 01:30 PM
Gosh, sending you big hugs.

I do think it would be worth mentioning something about the length of the inspection, and also that she interrupted you while you were reading the story and feeding the baby.

What a draining day it must have been. x

JCrakers
03-03-2016, 01:53 PM
Sending hugs to you. My inspection was extremely draining and I also wasn't happy with half of what the inspector said so I know how you're feeling. She was very personal to me and I was upset for days.

Can I just say before anything else, you have not failed yourself or the children. If you didn't care about your grade you wouldn't be on here. Also, getting Outstanding is not the only thing to concentrate on. We, as excellent childminders, seem to aim so high for that grade and when we don't get it we feel like a failure, and feel that we aren't doing a good job. Sometimes its the smallest thing that lets us down, they picked me apart so much I was exhausted for a whole week after and thinking back I don't even know if I was suitable for working I was so drained.
I'm not an Ofsted fan and never will be, I feel that they very easily knock good, working people down and make them feel that they are not up to standard. They are extremely picky and although they say they're raising standards, all they are doing is taking 1000's of childminders out of a job year by year. They are basically making it too hard for good, honest people who love children to be childminders. Its too much for some people and they give up on a profession that they are probably great at.

I would wait until the report comes through and see how it reads. You may feel a little better when it comes through. You possibly wont be able to get the outstanding if you didn't have that documentation but a good is still fantastic :thumbsup: I'm happy with mine.

leeloo1
03-03-2016, 05:19 PM
Thanks everyone for the support and advice. I really appreciate it - and am starting to feel better for getting it all off my chest. :)

Mouse, ok, I feel better about the grading after hearing about your friend's experience. That sounds awful. I know safeguarding is vital, but it feels like there's a huge difference between forgetting to have a form signed (and really, having seen the form it seems completely pointless! If you live with a paedophile are you really going to admit it on the form?) and letting children play with knives. Ok, silly example, but hopefully you know what I mean...

It doesn't seem there's any room for complaint though if that part was justified/lenient. I guess I'll just see what the report says... Although she said she might contact me to check some factual details (really? You didn't ask enough in those many, many hours?) so I might have to talk to her again. :(

I agree with whoever said that they don't really support ofsted anymore (altho maybe it'll be better if they do bring all inspections in house?) as it just seems too varied! I read online cm inspections should be no longer than 3 hours... My last one was just over 2, and then the other lady here (sorry hard to scroll on phone) had 5.5. Then, I had 2 days notice, but another local minder just had a month's notice! And another pretended she was on leave so had hers delayed for 2 weeks... Without any consistency then what's the point?

blue bear
03-03-2016, 07:40 PM
Oh bless. You what an experience.
It seems really unfair that she would re write the report to match the grade but you were lucky she let you rectify (as such ) the oversight to enable you to get good.

It sounds like you were on target to get outstanding until the tiny hiccup, I was told at my inspection they ask all the questions rather than just read what you have written to make sure it's embedded in your practice. I did on several occasions say I will answer in a minute I'm busy with a child.

Stop beating yourself up it was a bit of irrelevant paperwork as your mum was no longer actually working, your quality will shine through to parents and children and it's them that count at the end of the day.

Simona
04-03-2016, 09:37 AM
leeloo1....It may be a good idea to wait until you get the 'actual' report in writing...I assume you do not have this yet?
remember the inspector has to send that to Ofsted Quality Team first to be checked.

Only when you can read the report you can check for 'factual' details you feel are not correct and then decide on your next move

All people can do here is to comment on an experience we were not witness to
Hope you get it all sorted soon....in the meantime check the guidance on details the inspector has highlighted

sarah707
04-03-2016, 08:22 PM
Oh hunny I am so sorry you had a bad time :(

Inspectors have to follow their own code of conduct - if you feel the inspector didn't do that then you should put in a complaint.

They should give you time to meet the children's needs - those come first. If you feel that didn't happen then again, you should put in a complaint.

While many might say 'wait for the report' you can't do much once the report has come - so you really need to lodge your concerns now.

Hugs xx

moggy
04-03-2016, 10:07 PM
Oh hunny I am so sorry you had a bad time :(

Inspectors have to follow their own code of conduct - if you feel the inspector didn't do that then you should put in a complaint.

They should give you time to meet the children's needs - those come first. If you feel that didn't happen then again, you should put in a complaint.

While many might say 'wait for the report' you can't do much once the report has come - so you really need to lodge your concerns now.

Hugs xx

I agree, from what my inspector was saying, once the inspector submits their report with evidence to the Quality Assurance team then it is out of the inspector's hands and they have no more to do with it. I would be taking action ASAP. Once the report is in print and published it is less likely they will 're-open the case' and start making changes.

leeloo1
05-03-2016, 06:37 AM
Thanks to everyone who has posted. I really do appreciate the support. My concern about complaining is that if the form thing should have meant I automatically got a RI then by complaining is there a risk that I could get downgraded?

All of the 'evidence' is my word against the inspectors, so I don't think I'd get very far. And what outcome could I achieve?

Having met up with a couple of childminders yesterday who congratulated me on my grade (as lovely people here have too) I think I'll focus on the good and work towards getting back to outstanding next time. My 7 year old asked what grade I got, though about it for a minute, then said 'well, at least you didn't get... rubbish!!' which has made me laugh -it could have been worse.

It does concern me about how unlevel the playing field is though. One of the girls yday was told last week when she had the call from an ofsted inspector that they'll come on the 23rd March. So about a month's notice and a specific day. -There's no parity at all.

Mouse
05-03-2016, 08:02 AM
Thanks to everyone who has posted. I really do appreciate the support. My concern about complaining is that if the form thing should have meant I automatically got a RI then by complaining is there a risk that I could get downgraded?

All of the 'evidence' is my word against the inspectors, so I don't think I'd get very far. And what outcome could I achieve?

Having met up with a couple of childminders yesterday who congratulated me on my grade (as lovely people here have too) I think I'll focus on the good and work towards getting back to outstanding next time. My 7 year old asked what grade I got, though about it for a minute, then said 'well, at least you didn't get... rubbish!!' which has made me laugh -it could have been worse.

It does concern me about how unlevel the playing field is though. One of the girls yday was told last week when she had the call from an ofsted inspector that they'll come on the 23rd March. So about a month's notice and a specific day. -There's no parity at all.

It's strange that we have so little respect for Ofsted and their inconsistent inspections yet we worry so much about the grade they give us! Just shows how dedicated we are.

I'm glad to see you're happier now and that you can see how much those who know you clearly think of you. That's what's important and I think that's what you need to focus on.

leeloo1
05-03-2016, 06:45 PM
I think we worry so much because ofsted hold so much power over us -the grade we get can really affect our livelihood.

My last inspector was great - really professional, but fair and you got the feeling she really liked children. She ended up with my toddler son sitting on her knee to play with her laptop. She was a genuine 'ofsted ' bod though - and I heard from someone else inspected by her that she was thinking of leaving as the global (i think it was) and tribal inspectors didn't know how to do the inspections properly. So I do wonder if there's a quality difference between them- esp as ofsted are planning to bring inspections in house?

Simona
06-03-2016, 09:16 AM
Oh hunny I am so sorry you had a bad time :(

Inspectors have to follow their own code of conduct - if you feel the inspector didn't do that then you should put in a complaint.

They should give you time to meet the children's needs - those come first. If you feel that didn't happen then again, you should put in a complaint.

While many might say 'wait for the report' you can't do much once the report has come - so you really need to lodge your concerns now.

Hugs xx

Yes it was me who said that....I did say wait for the report because there are reasons to do so...unless we ignore what Ofsted say in their guidance? or unless I heard wrong from OBC itself?

we need to wait for a report in order to raise a complaint based on 'factual' evidence...unless there are circumstances that dictate otherwise and we lodge a complaint immediately?

The OP says herself 'it is my word against the inspector'...yes that has happened and that is why she needs to get proper support if she wishes to complain and that is why there are now Scrutiny Panels for complaints

There is a time limit for providers to raise a complaint....all in the guidance


Leeloo...Ofsted have messed up a bit recently and therefore we have lost faith in their inspection consistency...however...there is no need for cms to be so scared of Ofsted.
I don't feel the same fear applies to other providers ....a lot of the anxiety and fear comes from this forum because, at times, it sounds like Ofsted are after cms...not really true.

My feeling reading your comment is that you will not make a complaint now you have reflected on it....you seem disappointed you dropped your grade but now happy to work towards Outstanding again...I wish we could do away with grades altogether!!! what does a grade really say?
Good luck:thumbsup: