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Jessymax
08-01-2016, 11:07 AM
hi all, im doing daily diary and obs in one book. does anyone else do this? hoping its going to save time and lots of faffing about! x

bunyip
08-01-2016, 02:45 PM
I do them as seperate books, but that's not to say your way won't work.

But.............. are you sending the book home with the child each day?

If you are, then you run the risk of several months' observations/learning records being lost at a stroke. I've had clients demonstrate they are entirely capable of losing more than one diary in the space of a twelve-month :( and tbh the CM frequently cares a lot more than the parents about observations and learning records.

If not, then isn't the potential efficacy of the daily diary rather limited?

moggy
08-01-2016, 03:07 PM
I do daily diary separately- it goes backwards and forwards everyday and is well used by me and parents. It is an A5 spiral bound notebook but gets tatty and worn, it lasts about 3-4 months until full (only daily notes and chat about our day etc) and parents keep it when it is full. I would be sad if it was my LJ full of obs getting battered and chewed day in day out.

But if you think it'll work for you then give it a go.
Maybe keep a copy (not sure how, maybe if you do it on PC and print?) as it is likely to get lost or eaten by the dog at some point and then you would be stuck if you have lost all your obs!

blue bear
10-01-2016, 07:57 PM
I do, it's a online Lj and I add a daily diary entry each day, link to any areas of learning and development and only add next steps when a wow moment happen that day, so much easier all don't in one go, no need to print out, parents see it all daily.

Jessymax
10-01-2016, 10:17 PM
yeah exactly and if parents are careless enough to lose it i feel as if thats their loss!? x

Ripeberry
11-01-2016, 04:12 PM
But it would be 'Sods Law' that they lose it just before your Ofsted inspection...:panic:

Jessymax
12-01-2016, 07:51 PM
i was actually so surprised by the amount of paperwork ofsted informed me you don't 'have' to do! x

Georgiepoo
13-01-2016, 07:26 AM
What paperwork have ofsted said we don't 'have' to do?

Simona
13-01-2016, 08:39 AM
Music to my ears!!!
...not just this Tribal or Prospects inspector said it ....but many well known trainers and providers I have spoken to say that cms 'do too much paperwork'

unfortunately in this forum a lot of it is recommended that is just never needed and will only waste inspection time....sorry but this is for cms' benefit so they stop feeling pressured and look again at EYFS

The only paperwork we are required to do is that in the EYFS...Ofsted have no right to see what is not required and would not ask if challenged. ...but maybe this is a fore-warning they are seeing too muck bureaucracy in cms' folders.

maybe my lonely voice in this forum ...which is always raising the concern too much paperwork is done 'just in case' and for Ofsted's benefit...will be listened to now and hopefully some cms may 'review' their portfolio and step back.

Good luck!

Simona
13-01-2016, 08:42 AM
I wonder if anyone could clarify where it is required ...or even why observations would be recorded in a daily diary?

genuine question in view of the comment below...diaries are not compulsory...observations are not compulsory to write down...if you could clarify it would help a lot.
Thank you

mumofone
13-01-2016, 08:59 AM
I wonder if anyone could clarify where it is required ...or even why observations would be recorded in a daily diary? genuine question in view of the comment below...diaries are not compulsory...observations are not compulsory to write down...if you could clarify it would help a lot. Thank you

If observations aren't compulsory to write down then how do we form a learning journey.

And why do we all learning journeys if they're not required?

Simona
13-01-2016, 09:08 AM
If observations aren't compulsory to write down then how do we form a learning journey.

And why do we all learning journeys if they're not required?

Sorry Mumofone...it would be better explained in the EYFS...if you can find where it states they have to be in writing?
What is required is on-going formative assessment and a short summary of the learning in whatever way you prefer to present it.

LJs are done because we need a way to record the progress and share the 'evidence'...why they are called LJs I don't know...mine have a different name
One person called LJ and all followed...one person said online LJs are good and many followed.
many people record all obs...many follow this...I have never done ...but as you know we all do things differently

maybe you could approach your EY team and ask for clarification on this
The comment was about general paperwork 'not required' but which cms do.

The OP would know better what that inspector told her was 'too much'..it would be wonderful if it was shared but it is up to her.

Good luck!

mumofone
13-01-2016, 09:51 AM
Sorry Mumofone...it would be better explained in the EYFS...if you can find where it states they have to be in writing? What is required is on-going formative assessment and a short summary of the learning in whatever way you prefer to present it. LJs are done because we need a way to record the progress and share the 'evidence'...why they are called LJs I don't know...mine have a different name One person called LJ and all followed...one person said online LJs are good and many followed. many people record all obs...many follow this...I have never done ...but as you know we all do things differently maybe you could approach your EY team and ask for clarification on this The comment was about general paperwork 'not required' but which cms do. The OP would know better what that inspector told her was 'too much'..it would be wonderful if it was shared but it is up to her. Good luck!


You said observations are not required in writing. So from that do I assume that you don't write any observations down?

Just a question that you don't have to answer if you don't wish, just interested..

Simona
13-01-2016, 10:03 AM
You said observations are not required in writing. So from that do I assume that you don't write any observations down?

Just a question that you don't have to answer if you don't wish, just interested..

As per EYFS I do ongoing formative assessment which is around the learning/steps I want to record and that which is emerging or exceeding which informs my child's planning
From that I can do a summary of that learning ...then move on from those steps and plan new ones with the parents

I think it is how you interpret EYFS...and it does leave us the option to be individual while complying....it is not necessary to write all obs down in your LJs.

greenfaerie
13-01-2016, 10:19 AM
I'd be interested to know how easy someone found communicating during inspection with no written obs or LJ. I know that it's not required, but you'd have to have a fantastic memory and a brilliant ability to vocalise your thoughts, surely.

Simona
13-01-2016, 10:23 AM
I'd be interested to know how easy someone found communicating during inspection with no written obs or LJ. I know that it's not required, but you'd have to have a fantastic memory and a brilliant ability to vocalise your thoughts, surely.

Sorry if I have confused you.

I do have a record ...it is not called a LJ...it is self devised but still online.
I do have obs but not written down in the way others do
My inspection gave me ample time to explain but the summary of learning was the evidence backed up by the obs.
What that really wonderful inspector said was 'many obs are to be kept in your head'

All inspector must give ample opportunity for communicating during inspection

greenfaerie
13-01-2016, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the clarification Simona. :)

I wasn't just referring to your situation, anyone really who decided to keep all of their mindees developmental progress and achievements in their head. (If these kind of Childminders exist)

I have training tonight on Observation, Assessment and Planning. I'll put out feelers and ask others to see if anyone has quite a paper free system. :)

mumofone
13-01-2016, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the clarification Simona. :) I wasn't just referring to your situation, anyone really who decided to keep all of their mindees developmental progress and achievements in their head. (If these kind of Childminders exist) I have training tonight on Observation, Assessment and Planning. I'll put out feelers and ask others to see if anyone has quite a paper free system. :)

This is the training I want to go on but my LA charge for it and I don't want to pay! I'd be interested to hear your feedback on it greenfaerie :-) x

greenfaerie
13-01-2016, 10:57 AM
This is the training I want to go on but my LA charge for it and I don't want to pay! I'd be interested to hear your feedback on it greenfaerie :-) x

Oddly enough this is the only training that my LA is putting on that's free! O_o It's a two evening course, with the second being on Feb 10th. I can share some of the stuff then if you'd like? :)

JCrakers
13-01-2016, 11:22 AM
I do monthly written obs and I'm seriously thinking of scrapping them. For me, I feel I'm writing them down for the sake of it. I have a book with each child's name in and every month I write something in it which I've noticed and link it, with next steps.

I know the children as I spend so much time with them so, I've not written any since November mainly because I've not had time. Been so busy with working, Christmas and now were half way through Jan already :panic:

I think I'm going to stop writing them down although I've just had an inspection so I feel the 'weight is off' for a while, which isn't a good attitude to have I suppose but I was only writing them down for the sake of the Inspector.

mumofone
13-01-2016, 11:36 AM
I do monthly written obs and I'm seriously thinking of scrapping them. For me, I feel I'm writing them down for the sake of it. I have a book with each child's name in and every month I write something in it which I've noticed and link it, with next steps. I know the children as I spend so much time with them so, I've not written any since November mainly because I've not had time. Been so busy with working, Christmas and now were half way through Jan already :panic: I think I'm going to stop writing them down although I've just had an inspection so I feel the 'weight is off' for a while, which isn't a good attitude to have I suppose but I was only writing them down for the sake of the Inspector.

Did the inspector want to see written obs at your inspection jcrackers?

Simona
13-01-2016, 11:44 AM
Greenfaerie...not 'all' obs can be kept in my/anyone's head or it would explode!!


I fear what I said has been misunderstood...obs do not need to be written down but somehow the ongoing process has to be evidenced...hard to explain in a comment...and transferred into a LJ or whatever we call our assessment doc!

What the inspector suggested was a combination...you see something and then because you remember it may trigger the next obs/planning/activity

Also I don't think anyone has paper free practice....some may cut it but evidence has to be 'seen' and be tracked....if that is what we do....DM is a really useful tracker.

has anyone come across Jenny Johnson form Kids Allowed? she does that type of training...she calls it 'paperless'

paperless (http://www.kidsallowed.com/paperless/)

Another person to look up is Kathy Brodie

How To Get Started With Observation, Assessment and Planning (http://www.kathybrodie.com/articles/get-started-with-oap/)

JCrakers
13-01-2016, 12:23 PM
Did the inspector want to see written obs at your inspection jcrackers?

She didn't really ask me for anything specific, she just said 'can I see your paperwork'. So I gave her everything I had and she looked through it.

I've been working with children for 22yrs and been childminding 8.5yrs now and had 3 inspections. My last two inspections were "nearly outstanding". Both inspectors feedback was equally as annoying in the fact that I have basically given my life and soul to this job, my own children have missed out on a lot and I was told that I was a high good, is no use to me. If I can cut down on bits here and there and still get my good that's what I aim for now. Be it, a high good, low good, medium good its all the same. So for me, a little less effort is what I need, not to try so hard that I'm constantly thinking about work...its not healthy.

Not good for everyone though :D Don't take any advice I give as I'm a little grouchy with this job atm :thumbsup:

BallyH
13-01-2016, 02:38 PM
She didn't really ask me for anything specific, she just said 'can I see your paperwork'. So I gave her everything I had and she looked through it.

I've been working with children for 22yrs and been childminding 8.5yrs now and had 3 inspections. My last two inspections were "nearly outstanding". Both inspectors feedback was equally as annoying in the fact that I have basically given my life and soul to this job, my own children have missed out on a lot and I was told that I was a high good, is no use to me. If I can cut down on bits here and there and still get my good that's what I aim for now. Be it, a high good, low good, medium good its all the same. So for me, a little less effort is what I need, not to try so hard that I'm constantly thinking about work...its not healthy.

Not good for everyone though :D Don't take any advice I give as I'm a little grouchy with this job atm :thumbsup:

Is it time Ofsted introduced a new grade? 'Very good'. I'm hearing a lot of cm's getting this grade so maybe it should be put on their inspection report.

mumofone
13-01-2016, 02:40 PM
Is it time Ofsted introduced a new grade? 'Very good'. I'm hearing a lot of cm's getting this grade so maybe it should be put on their inspection report.

Haha I agree, I found very different levels of good when I was searching for childcare...

Simona
13-01-2016, 02:41 PM
Or maybe time to scrap grades altogether...what do they really say or do apart from stressing everyone out...if Finland can do without them maybe we should look that way ...or really everywhere in the world where Ofsted does not exist at all

Jessymax
13-01-2016, 03:12 PM
She said you do not need to write obs weekly or monthly or do termly summaries or progress trackers. the things she was hot on was 2 year progress check and baseline assessment x

bunyip
13-01-2016, 06:08 PM
Or maybe time to scrap grades altogether...what do they really say or do apart from stressing everyone out...if Finland can do without them maybe we should look that way ...or really everywhere in the world where Ofsted does not exist at all

I would love them to scrap grades. Very few parents looking for childcare have the first idea what Ofsted measure, or the ridiculous sort of petty detail they'll use to downgrade a setting. There are much better CMs than me out there, but they have lower grades - often sharing a grade with some pretty poor setting to boot. :( I'd far rather they just said whether or not a setting was 'good enough' and then let parents decide.

If we had no grades, I'd also want more frequent inspections (yes really) with the aim of having some continuity (same inspector) and a goal of working together to look at ideas for improvement. Inspection is a great idea done badly. There's so much potential for it to help settings get better, but instead it's all too often about fear, threat and confrontation. I think this also accounts for the low morale and high turnover amongst inspectors. I bet many of them went into the job with similar motives to those we have: a love of children and a desire to do a worthwhile job seeking to improve children's lives. What with all the targets, deadlines, and political agendas, how very different the reality has become. :(

Simona
13-01-2016, 07:03 PM
Jessymax...I think your inspector understood the EYFS very well and being trained by Ofsted itself got the right meaning
That is exactly what I have heard...2 year old check is a must...the rest is so very clearly stated in the framework on page 13.

I would actually print that bit and frame it...pouring over it again and again... and share it with the parents

Bunyip...great ideas there and I share your view on grades...scrap the lot and introduce a peer support system that is meaningful
We can be fabulous but on the 'day' something goes wrong and the grade is a stigma for the next 4 years...or we can be bad but the children 'make' the inspection on the day....and that sticks for the next inspection cycle as well..

We now have to be judged on teaching...but that follows no system or style or pedagogy?...just the way we want to do it...for the sake of 'outcomes'...I wonder what the Reggio teachers would say to that.
Wilshaw has a lot to answer for ...wish he'd stick for improvement and do away with red tape.

yes more frequent inspections ...like good old Social Services used to do annually and which I really loved...shorter and to the point without all this faffing around and tons of guidance....not sure some of these outsourced inspectors actually understand it themselves... we are decimating trees and it will not change the love and commitment we feel towards the children and the way we want to help them

It would also affect those who make a lot of money devising all these LJs...and forms upon forms... and doing pre-inspection 'mock' inspections and telling us what to do until Mrs O steps over the door!

I would chill and reconsider if all we do is really necessary.
I blame Gove and his desire to reduce the EYFS to a stress inducing framework!

blue bear
13-01-2016, 07:35 PM
My inspector had a quick flick through one learning journal but wasn't really interested in written up stuff, she wanted to know what I knew about the children, where they were developmentally how I planned to move their learning on, what difficulties children had in the past and how I'd helped them over come it...... It was all about the children.
Two years ago I decided enough was enough and decided to cut back I do an online Lj which is also the daily diary so I'm not writing the same thing twice not printing out realms of photos and spending a Saturday once a month matching them up to observations etc...
Didn't make any difference to the inspector it was all about what it's like for a child in my care and definelty much less about paperwork, date a in first aid boxes etc.

sarah1975
27-02-2016, 11:10 AM
My inspector had a quick flick through one learning journal but wasn't really interested in written up stuff, she wanted to know what I knew about the children, where they were developmentally how I planned to move their learning on, what difficulties children had in the past and how I'd helped them over come it...... It was all about the children.
Two years ago I decided enough was enough and decided to cut back I do an online Lj which is also the daily diary so I'm not writing the same thing twice not printing out realms of photos and spending a Saturday once a month matching them up to observations etc...
Didn't make any difference to the inspector it was all about what it's like for a child in my care and definelty much less about paperwork, date a in first aid boxes etc.

Bluebear could I ask what online LJ you use? I need to cut back on perwork and want to move to online but there are so many to choose from!