Soon to be registered CM with an agency!

[EmmaCP]

Hello there. Apologies if this is in the wrong place. My name is Emma and as the title suggests I am awaiting my registration visit to become a Childminder.

I thought I would join the forum to make friends and hopefully gain some valuable advice from those already in the know. However I've not read everything indepth but from what I've seen I'm becoming increasingly nervous. You see I will be the first childminder to register on @homechildcare childminder agency's books. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards agencies. I am wondering, am I going to be seen as an outsider?

I hope not, I am so very excited about my chosen business venture and also nervous that I can make it a success. As far as I can tell I have done every step of the process that any 'independent' CM has and I'm waiting anxiously to be inspected.

So please tell me... Am I welcome?

I look forward to making new friends 😊

[sarah707]

Hi all childminders are welcome here on the Childminding Forum - agency and independent.

Personally I have spent the last year and a bit working incredibly hard to offer support and help to childminders so they don't need to join agencies ... I'm not, as you might guess, their biggest fan.

But each to their own. I am sure you have made the right decision for you :D

[loocyloo]

:clapping: welcome to the wonderful world of childminding :clapping:

I have been a childminder for a long time, and in childcare all my working life, so I'm not in need of an agency to support me, and again, I'm not in favour of them, but I can see how they could be useful to a newly registering/registered childminder.

It would be interesting to hear how they have supported you in the process of becoming a childminder, and how they will continue to support you. Out of pure curiosity, will you be inspected by Ofsted or the Agency in order to become a childminder?

best wishes xx

[blue bear]

Ooh do tell from start to now what was the process like, what did it involve, what's the cost, what do you get for your money? Or maybe just tell us what you would like about the process. I'd really like to know, not because I ever intend to join an agency but it would be nice to be informed when asked questions from potential minder who have the choice to make if tat makes sense.

[EmmaCP]

Phewph! Thank you for being welcoming, it's a relief. I feel so very anxious at the moment. So it's nice to think there are people I can talk to who have been through this already.

As for doing the right thing... Honestly I still don't know. I didn't know about agencies until I went for my training at @homechildcare. They were just going through the process of becoming an agency and so after the childminder training it was pitched to us. All of the soon to be childminders on the course I was on weren't impressed but I started to do some research. In the end this is what I thought:

I like the fact that I could pick up the phone or email and have someone help me with anything.

Getting registered is a lot quicker with an agency.

I can be graded straight away so don't have to wait so long to take funded children on.

I am given my own personal mentor who will help me with anything and is guaranteed to visit 3 times in be first year.

I have the use of EYFS software which will help with the documentation of children's learning and also gives parents some reassurance that this is monitored.

I am inspected yearly.

I understand that you maybe thinking why would you want so much interference? However I have spoken at length with the agency about this and they assure me that they do not interfere with my paperwork, I am free to do my own planning, I can have as little involvement or as much from them as I want. In short I do not work for them but they are a support network for me and a direct access to CPD and also someone keeping an eye on the quality of childcare I am providing. Why would I not want that? Surely parents will love that too? I am passionate about childcare, I want to offer the very best and if there is someone there to help me get to that 'outstanding' grade and stay there year to year then I'm all for it.

I will be inspected by the agency but the agency itself is inspected by Ofsted so I have been told its exactly the same. In fact so far the trainers on the course that I have seen are Ofsted inspectors. They are under so much scrutiny that they will be doing nothing short of perfect I am sure. I suppose that's why I am so nervous! That and I am putting a lot of pressure on myself!

Yes the cost is a little more than just being registered with Ofsted in that you have to pay for each child that you have on your books (£5 per child) however I am being transparent about this and explaining to the parents about this extra cost. I know some nurseries that have started to use this software also pass the cost onto the parents so this is not a new concept at all and even with this cost I will be competitively priced.

I hope this answers some of your questions and thank you again for being welcoming.

[k1rstie]

Hi Emma. I think you should think wisely before speaking about your agency too much on here.
All existing childminders have different views on belonging to an agency or remaining independent.
I think that you are easily identifiable by your agency, your local authority and also other childminders.
Although, I would also like to know all the juicy details, I feel that you could end up in trouble from your agency.

Sorry everyone, it's just my initial reaction to the post.

[EmmaCP]

Hi Emma. I think you should think wisely before speaking about your agency too much on here.
All existing childminders have different views on belonging to an agency or remaining independent.
I think that you are easily identifiable by your agency, your local authority and also other childminders.
Although, I would also like to know all the juicy details, I feel that you could end up in trouble from your agency.

Sorry everyone, it's just my initial reaction to the post.

Why do you think it would get me in to trouble? I have been nothing but honest and I want to try and alleviate this negative stigma that agencies seem to have. Are we not all striving for the same thing... Excellence in childcare? Whether registered with Ofsted or an agency on behalf of Ofsted the outcome is the same, surely?

Thank you for your concern though, I will certainly query this point and review my replies accordingly.

[Simona]

Thank you for your message Emma.

I live in a LA where there are several Cms registered with their Agency which is called 'Leap Ahead'...so you are the first with @Homechildcare but not the 1st cm to be registered in the country....I believe over 10 are now registered with our local agency....their names and photos can be easily found on the agency website!...I even know some personally.

This forum like many other sites/associations and so on will welcome all cms as they are opportunities to share information and support each other regardless of registration.
Your agency will probably have a website for agency cms to share further news and support and meetings too, you will have your own contract with the agency so you know what is expected of you, the agency will have specific ways to support those who belong to the agency

You will have read many things about CMs and their reaction/opinions on agencies
many Cms will have fought a long battle against agencies...each in her/his own way... but in the end it is your personal choice which you made

What really upset many cms was the 'perceived' silence regarding Cms agencies...all seemed quiet and nothing seemed to be happening but some did believe all would eventually be revealed.

Good luck and hope you find support wherever you look for it

[natlou82]

I've read your pros to wanting to be in an agency but my concern is that you have joined in its infancy. It's not tried and tested an you don't have any guarantees that it will do what it says on the tin. I personally like being Ofsted registered as my grade is my responsibility. As the agency is yet to be graded, how would you feel if the graded inspection didn't go well? Would a parent want to use the agency if it had a grading of "needs improvement" despite how good the CMs may be on their books? Sorry for the negativity as these are just my own personal opinions but they are worth consideration. Out of interest if you are not happy with the agency can you then decide to register with Ofsted instead?

[Simona]

Any cm who joins an agency will have the choice of leaving and registering with Ofsted ...that is clear in the Ofsted guidance and must be in the cms' agency contract with the agency....that was clearly spelt out to us when we met with the agency co-ordinators

Emma...all you can do is try and test your agency m'ship...if you feel it does not work then you know you can go Ofsted registered.

Agency have 'negative stigma' because of the reasons given below by others...the silence around them and anxiety it has caused cms....and the very reasons they were created but...who knows what is in line in future?

All that cms want is a reassurance they will not put us on a disadvantage by remaining independent.
I hope you feel you can share your experience here and elsewhere.

One question if you feel up to answering...are you a member of any representing association such as PLA...were you allowed to have that choice?

[FloraDora]

I totally understand why agencies are attractive.
It seems they are offering similar to LEA of long ago - though charging.
I read a lot about new childminders who feel they are floundering and I think the supportive aspect has got to give confidence. I can see agencies growing as they recruit childminders from the initial training like Emma, they are offering support that LEA's don't seem to be now.
I was discussing this with some nieces over Christmas and they thought that the biggest issue for them was being confident about choosing a childminder ( they had loads of hearsay horror stories from friends!) and an agency backing them was a positive in their eyes, which was interesting.
Us already established, reasonably confident childminders don't feel they need the support and question who is doing the support, but for newbies I can see the attraction.
You can't move away from the fact that you are being graded via the agency and I would still be concerned that agencies are going to take on everybody and anybody who is willing to pay so the quality of all the childminders may not be the same as an individual. There are lots of acadamies in special measures, schools joined them for similar reasons. We have a great school in our town attached to a failing Acadamy chain ( regretting decision) so are being tarred with the same brush, not so easy to leave as I think leaving an agency will though.

[Simona]

I totally understand why agencies are attractive.
It seems they are offering similar to LEA of long ago - though charging.
I read a lot about new childminders who feel they are floundering and I think the supportive aspect has got to give confidence. I can see agencies growing as they recruit childminders from the initial training like Emma, they are offering support that LEA's don't seem to be now.
I was discussing this with some nieces over Christmas and they thought that the biggest issue for them was being confident about choosing a childminder ( they had loads of hearsay horror stories from friends!) and an agency backing them was a positive in their eyes, which was interesting.
Us already established, reasonably confident childminders don't feel they need the support and question who is doing the support, but for newbies I can see the attraction.
You can't move away from the fact that you are being graded via the agency and I would still be concerned that agencies are going to take on everybody and anybody who is willing to pay so the quality of all the childminders may not be the same as an individual. There are lots of acadamies in special measures, schools joined them for similar reasons. We have a great school in our town attached to a failing Acadamy chain ( regretting decision) so are being tarred with the same brush, not so easy to leave as I think leaving an agency will though.

Very interesting points Flora Dora
All LA's could do what mine does...support agency cms but also offer support to Ofsted registered ones at a small cost...again something mine does too.
The way they dropped cms support was a blow to many...but when it came to applying to being an agency many did...so are they in it for the money?

Having seen the new inspection framework for agencies I am rather worried at the reaction from those cms who joined one
The agencies will not be graded...therefore the cms cannot reflect that grade in their practice

All an agency will be declared is Efficient or Inefficient in support...rather a different thing from the original promised Of grading.
Inefficient is like Inadequate so only one chance of getting it right.
Too soon to reflect on this maybe but I will be hearing more...it may explain the flurry of meetings recently arranged by some agencies

Unfortunately there are still so many people in EY who believe agency are not a success...Some don't even know many are registered and a few have cms on their books
I feel they will rise in numbers and they don't have to be local...worrying and requiring cms to be alert.

[bunyip]

Hi Emma. I think you should think wisely before speaking about your agency too much on here.
All existing childminders have different views on belonging to an agency or remaining independent.
I think that you are easily identifiable by your agency, your local authority and also other childminders.
Although, I would also like to know all the juicy details, I feel that you could end up in trouble from your agency.

Sorry everyone, it's just my initial reaction to the post.

I do think K1rstie has a very good point. At the very least, check that you're not breaching some sort of confidentiality agreement or code of conduct that your agency may have. I'll say that much and, unlike your agency, I don't even charge for this sort of advice.

I OTOH have no such obligations toward @homechildcare. I did my level 3 diploma with their training department. They have some very good, very nice people there, so don't get me wrong, this isn't personal. I'm just not in step with their agenda for childcare.

For one thing, the training was less about us learning anything and more about getting lots of "criteria" boxes ticked in the quickest and most efficient way possible. :(

As coincidence would have it, the debate about agencies was running at the same time as I was doing the level 3. If anything I say here appears a little unkind, perhaps even brutal - and it probably will - then it is at least bears the marks of integrity by being consistent with what I and many of us were arguing at the time. Remember at the time this whole issue was (and maybe still is?) seen as a fight for the very survival of independent CMing in the face of a government determined to press ahead with the agency model in the face of massive critical opposition from the practitioners and parents alike. It's easy to forget that now in a bid to be all nice and welcoming but that is the reality and I make no apologies for reminding everyone of what may be something of an inconvenient truth at this point in history.

I worry that @homechildcare's priorities are overwhelmingly economic: including occasions on which they may have been somewhat, ahem, "economical with the truth." When the agency issue was discussed during a break in one of my seminars, the @homechildcare people were at pains to point out they had no intentions of extending their territory into my area. This didn't stop them approaching me personally to sign up with them as an agency CM last year. Hmm....odd that.

Then, when I pointed out I had no wish, need or desire to pay them for what I can do perfectly well for myself, they followed up with a request for me to become an agency CM support person for them. They'd pay me to offer the sort of help we all offer one another for free here on the Forum. They only seem to understand the cash imperative.

I'm about to "offend" - at least by the modern ridiculous definition, by which I mean I'm about to say something absolutely frank, honest, morally upstanding (not to mention quite possibly correct) but which some people don't like to hear.

If agencies are all they're cracked up to be and offering all the services and support a CM needs, please tell me why a CM would need or even want to be on a forum such as this?

If the answer to that question is that agencies are leaving gaps in their support/services which the forum is left to fill, then my second question is this: why should I or any other independent CM feel obligated to do the agencies' jobs for them and make up for the agencies' inadequacies by offering free advice of a kind those very agencies purport to provide, for which they charge, and which we may conclude they do not indeed deliver?

[sarah707]

We found a couple of agency childminders on the Independent Childminders Facebook group and wondered the same thing Bunyip -

Why would they need to be members of our group? Surely their agency gives them the support they need ... we removed them.

We have however said that the Forum is open to anyone who wants to seek support - an agency childminder might, after all, decide to change to independent (unlikely - I imagine they are going to be tied in - but it's possible) so we want to be as welcoming as we can be...

Hence opening up a new agency section to the forum where they can post and make friends :D

[bunyip]

We found a couple of agency childminders on the Independent Childminders Facebook group and wondered the same thing Bunyip -

Why would they need to be members of our group? Surely their agency gives them the support they need ... we removed them.

We have however said that the Forum is open to anyone who wants to seek support - an agency childminder might, after all, decide to change to independent (unlikely - I imagine they are going to be tied in - but it's possible) so we want to be as welcoming as we can be...

Hence opening up a new agency section to the forum where they can post and make friends :D

Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:

[Simona]

Agency cms can leave and that is clear in the Ofsted guidance ...and ask to be registered with Ofsted after appropriate notice and according to the terms of their agency contract
I have seen an application form from my agency and this was clarified by Sue Robb herself.
Agency cms will be bound by confidentiality but free to seek help where they want

@Home childcare are not as advanced as an agency compared to Leap Ahead

All associations and training ones too have said they will support agency cms on the same level and offer training if needed....not sure why the FB page would refuse them? But obviously this is their choice
If they are welcome in the forum why not on FB?


Unless I have lost the thread in all this we are confusing how we feel about agencies...the support they offer is in no way comparable to that received here...my personal view....this is social media compared to hands on face to face support and lots of paperwork and possible Ofsted visit when the agency gets inspected

Most important issue is the fact those cms are 'deregulated' as are those changing their work and going into other settings

Look at Leap Ahead ...that is the shape of things to come I fear!

[loocyloo]

I'm about to "offend" - at least by the modern ridiculous definition, by which I mean I'm about to say something absolutely frank, honest, morally upstanding (not to mention quite possibly correct) but which some people don't like to hear.

If agencies are all they're cracked up to be and offering all the services and support a CM needs, please tell me why a CM would need or even want to be on a forum such as this?

If the answer to that question is that agencies are leaving gaps in their support/services which the forum is left to fill, then my second question is this: why should I or any other independent CM feel obligated to do the agencies' jobs for them and make up for the agencies' inadequacies by offering free advice of a kind those very agencies purport to provide, for which they charge, and which we may conclude they do not indeed deliver?

:-) that's how I feel and also why I wondered an agency minder would be looking at a forum.

[Simona]

:-) that's how I feel and also why I wondered an agency minder would be looking at a forum.

Why not?
For the same reasons agency cms may be allowed to belong to an association that would support them further

I personally know agency cms...would I refuse them help if needed...No
It is all new to them, what is the harm of having help wherever they can get it?



Generally I am surprised at the forum position if they look at agency cms this way....are cms turning against cms? Sad if so

[bunyip]

All associations and training ones too have said they will support agency cms on the same level and offer training if needed....not sure why the FB page would refuse them? But obviously this is their choice
If they are welcome in the forum why not on FB?




As you know, I'm not the least bit FB-savvy. But IIUC from Sarah's explanation, there is a difference between the FB page for independent CMs and the more general CMs' forum. The crux of it is the "independent" bit. I take it to mean that the administrators don't see an independent CMs' FB page as an appropriate place to host non-independent CMs.

OTOH I realise there is room for a contrary opinion. After all, the CMs' forum has always accepted members who aren't CMs at all.

[bunyip]

Why not?
For the same reasons agency cms may be allowed to belong to an association that would support them further

I personally know agency cms...would I refuse them help if needed...No
It is all new to them, what is the harm of having help wherever they can get it?



Generally I am surprised at the forum position if they look at agency cms this way....are cms turning against cms? Sad if so

This was very much a point of discussion when we were fighting against Truss and the regime's determination to impose agencies upon the world of CMing.

Yes, we may well see CMs turning against CMs. I think a lot of it will depend on whether we still see agencies as a threat to independent CMing or just something we no longer need to worry about.

At the heart of the matter is this: did we have a genuine case against agencies when they were Truss's big issue, or were we all just a bunch of silly CMs getting our nickers in a twist over nothing circa 2012-13?

I still say now what I said then. Agencies have the potential to create local monopolies with the clout to damage independent CMs through overpowering resources such as advertising, networks, access to training, resources, etc. etc. They are playing the same game as us, but playing it by very different rules: including the way they inspect their CMs. We had issues as to whether or not Ofsted were to be the sole arbiters of quality with regard to childcare. Are the agencies ever likely to say their own CMs "require improvement"? Really? :huh:

As I said years ago, I am going to find it difficult to give advice to an agency CM, when that is the agency's job. The big thing was always that CM agencies would "remove the burden of paperwork". So I'm gonna be pretty pee-d off the first time an agency CM wants my advice on policies, risk assessments, record-keeping, "do I have to complete a medication form for nappy cream?" etc. Woe betide the first one begging for copies of my risk assessments, etc.

[Simona]

This was very much a point of discussion when we were fighting against Truss and the regime's determination to impose agencies upon the world of CMing.

Yes, we may well see CMs turning against CMs. I think a lot of it will depend on whether we still see agencies as a threat to independent CMing or just something we no longer need to worry about.

At the heart of the matter is this: did we have a genuine case against agencies when they were Truss's big issue, or were we all just a bunch of silly CMs getting our nickers in a twist over nothing circa 2012-13?

I still say now what I said then. Agencies have the potential to create local monopolies with the clout to damage independent CMs through overpowering resources such as advertising, networks, access to training, resources, etc. etc. They are playing the same game as us, but playing it by very different rules: including the way they inspect their CMs. We had issues as to whether or not Ofsted were to be the sole arbiters of quality with regard to childcare. Are the agencies ever likely to say their own CMs "require improvement"? Really? :huh:

As I said years ago, I am going to find it difficult to give advice to an agency CM, when that is the agency's job. The big thing was always that CM agencies would "remove the burden of paperwork". So I'm gonna be pretty pee-d off the first time an agency CM wants my advice on policies, risk assessments, record-keeping, "do I have to complete a medication form for nappy cream?" etc. Woe betide the first one begging for copies of my risk assessments, etc.

Totally see what you are saying and agree with a lot of it.
I will say this again...the main worry for many cms about agencies was 'deregulation' and still is...I literally have the T shirt I wore in our campaign....it says ' Say No to the deregulation of cms'...somewhere Pacey have it on their forum!

My personal feeling is that agency cms will not come to ask about Risk assessment or policies....that will be well looked after and prescribed by the Agencies which are no more than a glorified network...remember those networks where special cms had everything done for them, all guidance digested and then just emailed to them? Oh and they all ended up with fab grades!


Networks created a 2 tier of cms....they created an exclusive club where only those who belonged were able to do funding?
I remember telling Truss that face to face at Portcullis House...she acted but unfortunately was carrying the agency idea already.

Agencies will do the same if we lock those cms out...agency cms may just want to connect with the rest and not be in a bubble
I do not ask for support in this forum but like to read what others cms do....that is how I feel it will be with
Agency CMs...I may be wrong

I recall very clearly Pacey offering support to help agencies to develop to get them to offer the best for children looked after by their cms....why the resentment now and the wish to split cms in 2 again?


Cms against Cms will be a disaster and can only happen if Cms let it happen and instigate it..I won't be part of that...it would be self destruction for cms.

Agencies will not be a threat if we keep alert and continue to rise to Sir Michael's expectations :rolleyes:

[rickysmiths]

I don't see Agencies taking over our work the only issue is the perception of parents and our ability to draw in custom if there is an Agency near buy who are more visible on the High Street as it were. However I will worry about that if and when it happens in my area. I am in one of the largest Counties in the Country and we don't have a single Agency yet!

Also EmmaCP newly Registered Independent childminders can offer the 3-4 Funded Places before their first Graded Inspection and have been able to for a number of years now.

[rickysmiths]

Phewph! Thank you for being welcoming, it's a relief. I feel so very anxious at the moment. So it's nice to think there are people I can talk to who have been through this already.

As for doing the right thing... Honestly I still don't know. I didn't know about agencies until I went for my training at @homechildcare. They were just going through the process of becoming an agency and so after the childminder training it was pitched to us. All of the soon to be childminders on the course I was on weren't impressed but I started to do some research. In the end this is what I thought:

I like the fact that I could pick up the phone or email and have someone help me with anything.

Getting registered is a lot quicker with an agency.

I can be graded straight away so don't have to wait so long to take funded children on.

I am given my own personal mentor who will help me with anything and is guaranteed to visit 3 times in be first year.

I have the use of EYFS software which will help with the documentation of children's learning and also gives parents some reassurance that this is monitored.

I am inspected yearly.

I understand that you maybe thinking why would you want so much interference? However I have spoken at length with the agency about this and they assure me that they do not interfere with my paperwork, I am free to do my own planning, I can have as little involvement or as much from them as I want. In short I do not work for them but they are a support network for me and a direct access to CPD and also someone keeping an eye on the quality of childcare I am providing. Why would I not want that? Surely parents will love that too? I am passionate about childcare, I want to offer the very best and if there is someone there to help me get to that 'outstanding' grade and stay there year to year then I'm all for it.

I will be inspected by the agency but the agency itself is inspected by Ofsted so I have been told its exactly the same. In fact so far the trainers on the course that I have seen are Ofsted inspectors. They are under so much scrutiny that they will be doing nothing short of perfect I am sure. I suppose that's why I am so nervous! That and I am putting a lot of pressure on myself!

Yes the cost is a little more than just being registered with Ofsted in that you have to pay for each child that you have on your books (£5 per child) however I am being transparent about this and explaining to the parents about this extra cost. I know some nurseries that have started to use this software also pass the cost onto the parents so this is not a new concept at all and even with this cost I will be competitively priced.

I hope this answers some of your questions and thank you again for being welcoming.


If you pay £5 for every child on your books then if you have 6 under 5s you will be paying the same as the £35 pa current fee to Ofsted. Any more children and it will cost you more. For example if you had 10 part timers making up the week. Good though for cm who may not be able to fill all their vacancies.

[Simona]

I have a feeling that cms may have not understood that an agency does not have to be on your doorstep to operate in your area!

I think it is easy to work out why.

[sarah707]

I am struggling to believe that I am being asked to explain why an agency childminder is not welcome on a Facebook group called INDEPENDENT Childminders! :laughing:

[Simona]

I think that I have explained why I find it difficult to isolate agency cms from anything that would be of benefit to them....I am keen to avoid the 2 tier system that was in place before.

It is my personal feeling And I find it difficult to understand...the same way I found difficult to accept why non network cm were isolated from the network ones in the past.

I also have said both my association...PLA and others...such as NEYTCO have welcomed agency cms so they get equal support.

It is the forum decision and while I respect it I do not feel it is helpful...no offence to anyone.

[bunyip]

I think that I have explained why I find it difficult to isolate agency cms from anything that would be of benefit to them....I am keen to avoid the 2 tier system that was in place before.

It is my personal feeling And I find it difficult to understand...the same way I found difficult to accept why non network cm were isolated from the network ones in the past.

I also have said both my association...PLA and others...such as NEYTCO have welcomed agency cms so they get equal support.

It is the forum decision and while I respect it I do not feel it is helpful...no offence to anyone.

I fully respect your right to "agree to disagree" on this point.

As I said earlier, my understanding is that the Independent CMs' FB page does exactly what it says on the tin: it is a FB page for independent CMs. I don't go on it cos I have issues with FB. Agency CMs aren't to go on it because they're not independent, so it's not for them.

This sort of thing does happen in other areas of CMing and childcare in general. The following is not an exact comparison (comparisons tend not to be exact anyway) but there are points of convergence by way of an example. My occasional CM group holds occasional trips to women-only sessions at a local swimming baths; they also book occasional women-CM-only spa days or pamper evenings. My view is that they are entitled to do that and it's not my place to demand admission or protest that I've been excluded, or think that the women members have turned against me.

I imagine the independent CMs' FB doo-dah meets the needs of independent CMs in those areas which an agency should, by definition, already be meeting the needs of agency CMs (hence agency CMs don't need the independent CM's FB doohicky.) I guess those areas are, to a greater or lesser degree) something like:-

1. Help with matching childminders and parents together

2. Removing some of the burdens of registration for childminders

3. A support network and a more secure way of working

4. Help with handling day to day issues and emergencies

My source for the above list is DofE's own description of an agency's basic function, taken from: Childminding Agencies - #OfstedBigConversation (http://www.thebigofstedconversation.co.uk/category/latest-news/childminding-agencies/) (dated Valentine's Day - ahh, how sweet :thank you:, 2013.)

As synchronicity would have it, and I have to extend my sincere admiration of your foresight in this matter Simona, you were already predicting on that very same webpage that the existence of agencies would create "a two-tier system". I absolutely agree with this. It is the existence of agencies, not the reaction of independent CMs, which has created the two tiers and whatever 'split' may inevitably follow. :(

[rickysmiths]

I have a feeling that cms may have not understood that an agency does not have to be on your doorstep to operate in your area!

I think it is easy to work out why.

I am fully aware of that though I have to say I don't see that as a helpful model for Parents of Childminders but hey ho!

[Simona]

Mmmmm....we cannot stop agencies Bunyip but what we can do is prevent cms from joining them 'if' they find support elsewhere and can be made to reflect before they abandon ship...or once aboard ....they find they want to get off?
That would mean agencies will flop because that support is not needed.

What if an agency cm finds her support poor?

I totally understand the loyalty here but... Your example is a bit different but I see your point
if PLA and many other organisations can support both ...I see no reason at this very moment to exclude them ?..let's try it first.

I am of the opinion that agencies themselves...or those who run them...should be excluded as their joining any support group would cause me to wonder why they need it....but that is obvious when they are looking for cms to mentor their members....unfortunately agencies are being represented already from what I can see

I am proud of my little input in breaking the 'Cms Network' monopoly and 2 tier system...do we really want to look forward to cms being against Cms?

I can't agree to that......it will break us when we are most needed.
If this happens both DfE and Ofsted are guilty of causing the very inequality that was there in the first place and cms fought hard to remove

I will look into this and ask questions but unfortunately I cannot but feel very uncomfortable...and I hope my feelings are respected and not laughed at.

One thing I have not understood as I am not on FB...why are these agency Cms excluded theere but able to join here?

[Simona]

I am fully aware of that though I have to say I don't see that as a helpful model for Parents of Childminders but hey ho!

Good and keep that in mind but it can easily happen and I can see how!

[bunyip]

Mmmmm....we cannot stop agencies Bunyip but what we can do is prevent cms from joining them 'if' they find support elsewhere and can be made to reflect before they abandon ship...or once aboard ....they find they want to get off?
That would mean agencies will flop because that support is not needed.

What if an agency cm finds her support poor?

I totally understand the loyalty here but... Your example is a bit different but I see your point
if PLA and many other organisations can support both ...I see no reason at this very moment to exclude them ?..let's try it first.

I am of the opinion that agencies themselves...or those who run them...should be excluded as their joining any support group would cause me to wonder why they need it....but that is obvious when they are looking for cms to mentor their members....unfortunately agencies are being represented already from what I can see

I am proud of my little input in breaking the 'Cms Network' monopoly and 2 tier system...do we really want to look forward to cms being against Cms?

I can't agree to that......it will break us when we are most needed.
If this happens both DfE and Ofsted are guilty of causing the very inequality that was there in the first place and cms fought hard to remove

I will look into this and ask questions but unfortunately I cannot but feel very uncomfortable...and I hope my feelings are respected and not laughed at.

One thing I have not understood as I am not on FB...why are these agency Cms excluded theere but able to join here?

I take your point, and I'm not laughing at you. In fact, I'm not laughing one little bit when it comes to agencies.

I think we were collectively taken in by one of the regular con-tricks of the so-called "democratic process" over the introduction of agencies. We all patted ourselves on the back that, whilst agencies became a reality we were not all forced to join one. This is one of government's regular cons (and particularly well-suited to a Con-Dem coalition that consistently confused "mandate" with "absolute power").

They hinted and consequently had us believing we might be all forced into an agency. So that when we fought against being forced into agencies, they got through what they essentially wanted (ie. the creation of agencies) and "compromised" by not forcing us all to join one. We thought we'd won, but really the ConDemNation had won: it got what it wanted all along, whilst simultaneously leaving us feeling relieved that it wasn't worse than it might have been. It's one of the oldest and easiest tricks in the ruling class's book of dirty tricks.

But it doesn't mean the idea of forcing us all into agencies has gone away.

Now the regime plays the patient waiting game. Agencies get going, inspect and judge their own CM's as good (why shouldn't they?) and Ofsted starts to save money on inspections. If government can 'prove' the agency system is working and saving public money, then how long before they force us all into it? Independent CMs are a costly burden when it comes to inspecting us.

Has nobody worked out that the proposed increase in our Ofsted fees is just the beginning? :huh:

So, when we're being all nice and friendly and welcoming, and support agency CMS (or, to put it another way, we do the agencies' work for them) we're running the serious risk of making the agency scheme work and thereby contributing towards our own downfall. :(

Any turkeys out there wanting to vote for Christmas? :huh:

[natlou82]

Bunyip you've raised the exact point that a raised with a fellow CM today about agencies saving Ofsted money and if they become successful they are bound to try every trick in the book to get rid of us independents and get us to join the agencies. As Simona said we need new CMs to see that they can get support without being in an agency. I was also discussing today that I am always willing to help new CMs. I've introduced them to other CMs, passed enquiries their way, offered support with paperwork and passed on info. I do this because I am happy to and I'm sure they'll return the favour down the line (which has already happened) I have no interest in getting paid by an agency to do something I am happy to do for free! Last week I set up my own FB group for all CMs in my area to share info, help with emergency care, pass on enquiries etc. It's already working really well which goes to prove we can do this without an agency sticking their noses into our businesses. I hope the OP hasn't been put off, as I know we've diverted. But as above I'm more than willing to give the same support and usual forum banter as I do with independent CMs :-)

[Simona]

I take your point, and I'm not laughing at you. In fact, I'm not laughing one little bit when it comes to agencies.

I think we were collectively taken in by one of the regular con-tricks of the so-called "democratic process" over the introduction of agencies. We all patted ourselves on the back that, whilst agencies became a reality we were not all forced to join one. This is one of government's regular cons (and particularly well-suited to a Con-Dem coalition that consistently confused "mandate" with "absolute power").

They hinted and consequently had us believing we might be all forced into an agency. So that when we fought against being forced into agencies, they got through what they essentially wanted (ie. the creation of agencies) and "compromised" by not forcing us all to join one. We thought we'd won, but really the ConDemNation had won: it got what it wanted all along, whilst simultaneously leaving us feeling relieved that it wasn't worse than it might have been. It's one of the oldest and easiest tricks in the ruling class's book of dirty tricks.

But it doesn't mean the idea of forcing us all into agencies has gone away.

Now the regime plays the patient waiting game. Agencies get going, inspect and judge their own CM's as good (why shouldn't they?) and Ofsted starts to save money on inspections. If government can 'prove' the agency system is working and saving public money, then how long before they force us all into it? Independent CMs are a costly burden when it comes to inspecting us.

Has nobody worked out that the proposed increase in our Ofsted fees is just the beginning? :huh:

So, when we're being all nice and friendly and welcoming, and support agency CMS (or, to put it another way, we do the agencies' work for them) we're running the serious risk of making the agency scheme work and thereby contributing towards our own downfall. :(

Any turkeys out there wanting to vote for Christmas? :huh:

Yes we need to be alert that agencies will become compulsory because they save so much money to Ofsted...the main pusher and endorser of them and with a drastically reduced budget now....so cms can be their saviours and be dispensable...who is next?

You are well informed Bunyip and I share many of your points especially the point on rising Ofsted fees....they do not fool us...cms are not stupid! We have offered to cover the whole of the registration/inspection fee...so why not take that hint?
Who is arguing against that?....the usual suspects I fear

Supporting agency cms is not doing the agency work...on the contrary is highlighting the agencies' shortcomings as many know nothing about childminding...especially Agency 12 and the likes of them such as schools who will use cms to do their work and cover the 30 hours leaving cms to do just the childcare while they take the glory for education!

Natlou....I think you have got the point and glad to hear you would offer equal support to agency cms....lets keep our minds open to this

[bunyip]

Bunyip you've raised the exact point that a raised with a fellow CM today about agencies saving Ofsted money and if they become successful they are bound to try every trick in the book to get rid of us independents and get us to join the agencies. As Simona said we need new CMs to see that they can get support without being in an agency. I was also discussing today that I am always willing to help new CMs. I've introduced them to other CMs, passed enquiries their way, offered support with paperwork and passed on info. I do this because I am happy to and I'm sure they'll return the favour down the line (which has already happened) I have no interest in getting paid by an agency to do something I am happy to do for free! Last week I set up my own FB group for all CMs in my area to share info, help with emergency care, pass on enquiries etc. It's already working really well which goes to prove we can do this without an agency sticking their noses into our businesses. I hope the OP hasn't been put off, as I know we've diverted. But as above I'm more than willing to give the same support and usual forum banter as I do with independent CMs :-)

It's undeniably a cohesive argument you have there, Natlou. I feel quite bad trying to contradict it. I completely understand the argument that "we're all CMs, so let's stick together and help one another, whether independent or agency CMs."

My concern is that government, Ofsted, etc. will not be interested in the detail of who helped agency CMs to be successful. They won't say, "oh, our agency idea was pants and produced totally cr4p agencies who were only interested in creaming off some profit, but didn't those lovely people on the CM Forum just do a sterling job in baling us out." They'll just decide their agency policy was successful and press to make us all join one because it's far cheaper and more efficient for them when it comes to inspection, etc. :(

One problem is that agencies are already looking rather better than LA's. Much as it pains me to say it, a mere glance at the @homechildminding website suggests their enquirer's briefing covers more in an evening than my LA 'support' ever covered in three bl00dy years! :eek:

I'm finding this debate helpful. It's something I can see both sides of and keep turning over and over in my little head.

[natlou82]

I completely get your point Bunyip. Unfortunately @homechildcare has a way of getting under people's skins, they are very clever. Today I heard my new CM acquaintance refer to orange moon (their agency name) in the same sentence as BD that well known provider of obs, policies, contract etc online so the agency has already got a finger in that pie! This is going to be very interesting, roll on the 28th!!

[Mouse]

I wonder, when there are enough agencies childminders dotted around the country that they form their own FB groups and online support sites, will they welcome non-agency childminders with open arms?

[Simona]

I cannot express in words what I feel after reading the comments here....good grief!...Cms have actually pushed the self destruction button and now forming open and clear antagonism...so the 2 tier system is alive and well

and there is me thinking that the reason CMs were against agencies is because we truly have a concerns about the care the children will receive?...the fact one part of the sector is now deregulated as per govt's wish?...the fact many LAs are concerned about the support agencies will give their CMs and who will provide them with training?
Pacey itself offered to support agencies to get it right for the children'...all forgotten ?

I do not think cms in this forum are aware who is behind training some agencies?
not long before you get to find out.


All of a sudden it is all about all the 'nice Cms' in the forum helping agencies to be a success?...NO that is not what this is all about....this is about preventing cms joining an agency because there is NO reason to do that and every reason to get out of them if you have joined them


Who allowed Agency 12 here in an open forum when others agencies are quietly getting on with their training and development?
When I challenged Agency 12 because of her appalling knowledge of cms and safeguarding ....I was told I was training her for free...that was not so.
Now that agency 12 is safely registered she can get plenty of cms to join and happily deliver the 30 hours together and the rest of the govt' agenda on childcare!!...she will get plenty of support from the 'agency taskforce' itself and those trainers willing to train agencies.


I have attended a lot of meetings to discuss agencies....very few Cms were ever interested because it was 'out of sight...not close to them ...or I will never join' kind of attitude...
Having labelled ourselves Independent...Can we really declare ourselves Independent CMs still? we are far from being independent

Natlou...I was really looking forward to some feedback from your meeting as I hope my little suggestions in our emails were of help?
why do you think @homechildcare are very clever?...I think quite the opposite but they are really seeing into the future and taking the opportunity.

Mouse...you are probably correct Agencies will have their owh forum and FB page and independent cms will not be allowedin...that is not the reason to behave like they do....tit for tat?
They need to obviously keep 'their model' safe and secret I would say....Look at Leap Ahead...not that difficult to see how they operate...they are the trail blazers but not all details are public.

Bunyip...I think you have listened very much to all discussions and are very updated...I do think though you are defensive ...in a nice way I say this ...and my questions went unanswered....why are agency cms welcome in the forum and not their FB page?
there are several ICM FB pages...it is like a competition...glad to be out of that

You accept that cms will be split in to 2 tiers and accept cms will be against cms?....for some of us that will never be Ok to accept....it may please 4 Children whose like of childminding is not that obvious.

What is happening now is that Cms are seeing the reality of agencies come to fruition.

Look at Rickysmiths' statement in this forum....did she not ask recently ... ''and how many agencies have Cms on their books''? ...despite the proof that yes they do have members....even Nursery World lost track of that.

Soon parents will be very aware of agency cms and soon they will start asking that awful question we all wanted to avoid...another prediction here to go along the 2 tiers.

Good luck to all cms...stay united ...do not fall by disunity....I hope many of you will stand against the govt's wish to split the childminding sector.

[bunyip]

I've chopped the previous post up to respond to just a few points, so please be aware this might leave things looking a bit out-of-context.


Natlou...I was really looking forward to some feedback from your meeting as I hope my little suggestions in our emails were of help?
why do you think @homechildcare are very clever?...I think quite the opposite but they are really seeing into the future and taking the opportunity.

I think the answer is in the question. What makes @homechildcare very clever? Answer: for one thing, because "they are really seeing into the future and taking the opportunity."


Bunyip...I think you have listened very much to all discussions and are very updated...I do think though you are defensive ...in a nice way I say this ...and my questions went unanswered....why are agency cms welcome in the forum and not their FB page?
there are several ICM FB pages...it is like a competition...glad to be out of that

:clapping: The contrarian in me should perhaps be disappointed that I'm "defensive" and not "offensive" - I must be going soft. ;) No matter. Tbf, I think I have answered the question "why are agency cms welcome in the forum and not their FB page?" Sarah answered it much more succinctly. I apprehend that I have not answered the question in a manner that many CMs will want to hear, but I answered in nonetheless.


You accept that cms will be split in to 2 tiers and accept cms will be against cms?....
Short answer: yes, I do. For one thing, my experience has always been that CMs are against CMs to some degree, certainly within my decidedly short childcare career.

At it's most basic, and whilst I accept a lot of CMs do support other CMs, it is naive to deny the very obvious point that CMs are in competition with other CMs. We are each of us constantly drawing lines as to how far we go in 'supporting' fellow-CMs. I know a few of us now refuse to share paperwork with new members on the Forum, because we've had bad experiences of new CMs popping up on here, harvesting the fruits of our labours, then disappearing into the internet equivalent of the sunset (and some of us then find our paperwork being sold by someone else on flEaBay. :mad:)

I've helped a number of local CMs get their businesses up and running from the pre-reg stage, knowing they'd eventually be in direct competition with me. I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to pass them enquiries I can't use. I'm not happy that 1 or 2 have thought they are entitled to be given the details of every single enquiry I get, whilst they can't be ar5ed to advertise properly. :mad: This includes them thinking I'll pay for childcare.co.uk membership then break the rules of that site to find clients for them. :angry:

So, we all draw lines when it comes to who we'll support and how.

I had 'childcare professionals' telling me I shouldn't be a CM while I was still in the basic-training room. Ever since registration I've faced a local CM group who deliberately set out to damage the businesses of any CM who won't join their little clique and play by their rules. Support? No - another example of an existing CM-against-CM situation.

You yourself stated there already was a 2-tier system due to networks , and you yourself prophesied that agencies would create a new 2-tier system. As I said previously, I believe we should recognise that the 2-tiers are the result of the existence of agencies, and we should not accept the blame for the 2 tiers.

One final point, and I'm conscious that it's a little unfair of me to pick out a single word for attention, so forgive me. I do it to further the debate, not to criticise or run down your perfectly coherent argument. You've mentioned in this and other threads about "the fact one part of the sector is now deregulated as per govt's wish". If, as you suggest, agency CMing is "deregulated" childcare, is it not reasonable for us to be a little wary of deregulated childcarers, in a similar way (albeit to a lesser degree) that we are wary of unregulated/unregistered childcarers?

Just throwing a few points out there for thought and discussion.

[Simona]

Bunyip...2 things that you have triggered reflection on.

1. Can cms be possibly forced into joining an agency?
Having had this nagging doubt from the start I feel 'kind of reassured' we cannot be from discussions I have had with those who seem to know

But ...of course...Ofsted could leave cms with no option!...if you know what I mean.

2. Having 'reacted' in different ways to agencies...mostly in a negative form as we seem to be reacting now...how about some pro active actions?

I would assume that NHS nurses work alongside nurses from an agency when the latter are called in to fill vacancies?
The same could be applied to teachers who work alongside those who come to their school from agencies to fill teachers shortfall?

Just 2 thoughts and lots to think about maybe?

[bunyip]

1. Can cms be possibly forced into joining an agency?
Having had this nagging doubt from the start I feel 'kind of reassured' we cannot be from discussions I have had with those who seem to know

I'd say "yes, we could".

One of Life's little rules: "some things are impossible, but some things just take a little longer."

Example. Back in the 1980's we were fighting the proposed Sunday trading laws with USDAW. Government, business, the media and 9-5 office types went to great lengths to reassure us that nobody would ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER be forced to work Sundays, not even in new contracts or new employees. Likewise, every single shop-worker working Sundays would always and forever be paid on a higher rate. Now, and for some time, it has been absolutely standard for shop workers to have to work Sundays and on their basic rate, and the Sunday laws are due to be relaxed even further.

Example: previous to being a CM, I worked on London Underground. RMT and even the pro-management lackeys in TSSA were warning that Transport for London would try to close station ticket offices. We were constantly reassured "it'll never happen" I may even have the letter somewhere from the CEO to all staff that it was complete nonsense, impractical, trades union scaremongering for political ends, etc. I believe it has taken them less than 12 months to close the majority to ticket offices, all before they'd even completed the risk assessments and safety audits to consider the implications.

[Simona]

Buynip...I posted the second comment before seeing your reply.

You certainly make good points which again trigger reflection
My idea of being pro-active is that we now need to have this debate in the open with our associations....agencies are here now...so what is next for all of us?

I totally understand the 'competition' you refer to...I was in the past a 'Support cm' where I helped cms to register and get to inspection...did I see them as competition?...no never.
The only competition I see is in paperwork...if we share it means cms copy our ideas but not develop their own....I have often been asked to pass my on but never did but happy to discuss how I got there.

Those who felt you should not be a CM speak for their own shortcomings and prejudice...cliques existed when networks were up and running ...some of those cms hardly ever mixed with the rest...a few enlightened ones did.
I wish we had more men in childminding in my area...what a difference that would make! cliques usually happen with women...sorry not being unkind but that is my experience....so no offence to anyone.

Agency cms will be 'deregulated' but ...as the agency will be regulated by Ofsted...that is how they will get around that divisive issue.

The blame for the 2 tier now lies at the door of the DfE, Ofsted and 4 Children...we got angry with agencies but let the guilty ones scott free
the woman running @Home childcare was the first one to complain about the negativity against agencies...did she not comment on that when responding to the Childcare Bill?...oh and often said so on twitter if anyone dared ask a question saying it was putting cms off!!
that in my view triggered the secrecy we all perceived.

Good to debate and I hope we find a way forward.

[bunyip]

I completely get your point Bunyip. Unfortunately @homechildcare has a way of getting under people's skins, they are very clever. Today I heard my new CM acquaintance refer to orange moon (their agency name) in the same sentence as BD that well known provider of obs, policies, contract etc online so the agency has already got a finger in that pie! This is going to be very interesting, roll on the 28th!!

@homechildcare have always been perfectly charming, perhaps a little too charming? When I did my level 3 with them it was perfectly clear the only aim was to do it as quickly, efficiently and cheaply as possible: to complete the tick-list of criteria irrespective of whether anybody went through the revolutionary experience of actually learning a darned thing. :mad: My personal assessor was lovely, but very clearly world-weary and worn down by the unfulfilling task of being in education without educating anybody..........just 'chasing up' assignments all the time and ticking boxes with as little discussion as may be.

Is it just me, or does 'Orange Moon' sound like a highly-specialised fetish website for people who get a thrill out of satsumas showing off their bottoms? :eek: I hardly dare Google it. :p

[Simona]

Close your eyes Bunyip....Here is a link to Orange Moon...looking for registered Cms and EYPS to support their agency CMs!
I rest my case...if we do not offer support to their members other Ofsted registered cms will

Childminder (childcare) Development Tutor/Mentor (28719879) - reed.co.uk (http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/childminder-childcare-development-tutor-mentor/28719879)

Orange Moon or Leap Ahead...neither titles means anything and have no connection to children!

[bunyip]

Close your eyes Bunyip....Here is a link to Orange Moon...looking for registered Cms and EYPS to support their agency CMs!
I rest my case...if we do not offer support to their members other Ofsted registered cms will

Childminder (childcare) Development Tutor/Mentor (28719879) - reed.co.uk (http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/childminder-childcare-development-tutor-mentor/28719879)

Orange Moon or Leap Ahead...neither titles means anything and have no connection to children!

As I said, they approached me to help with 'support'.

You'll be pleased to hear I said no 'professionally'. That is, I resisted the overwhelming temptation to deliver my reply tied to a house-brick. :rolleyes:

[Simona]

As I said, they approached me to help with 'support'.

You'll be pleased to hear I said no 'professionally'. That is, I resisted the overwhelming temptation to deliver my reply tied to a house-brick. :rolleyes:

Yes I was recently made aware of this...so another prediction has come true.

Next is that agencies will become members of our associations and attend conferences alongside ORCMs!

[natlou82]

In response Simona, yes I've found your emails very helpful. I hope you are still looking forward to my feedback. My clever comment is that I can see that they are approaching this from many angles to get a wider appeal.

[Simona]

In response Simona, yes I've found your emails very helpful. I hope you are still looking forward to my feedback. My clever comment is that I can see that they are approaching this from many angles to get a wider appeal.

I hope I got your comment right

You also say BD will offer their paperwork to Orange Moon
Unless it has changed since the last meeting I attended.....our local agency will buy paperwork from a well known company which many cms here use.

Both offer it to ICMs and both will offer it to agencies...which in a way proves what I was trying to say that support for agency CMs will come from those who also support ICMs....it is about money in the end

Feedback would be lovely if you feel ok about it....I have picked up a lot here just exchanging a few comments and points of view

I am well armed now for the next meetings where I intend to flag up my concerns as I have always done.

[k1rstie]

Orange Moon...looking for registered Cms and EYPS to support their agency CMs! IURL="http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/childminder-childcare-development-tutor-mentor/28719879"]Childminder (childcare) Development Tutor/Mentor (28719879) - reed.co.uk[/URL] !

This advert is very interesting Simona. It sounds similar to the role our LA development officers do. I personally do not mind jumping through the occasional hoop to help them justify their jobs, if it means that in our small borough ( with approx 200 childminders), our officers continue to do what ever it is they do.

[natlou82]

No orange moon are offering a package along the same lines as baby days (not sure if I'm allowed to say it) I don't know if it is provided by bds or they've set up their own. I know many CMs who welcome contracts, policies, obs online. So it is another appealing feature. Bearing in mind I only started CMing 2 years ago if an agency existed to help me set up my business I may well have jumped at the chance as I was not as confident in my own abilities as I am now. I can say with confidence that I wouldn't join now but for new CM's there is an appeal there. Personally I am thinking of the long term, to a day when I might be struggling to attract new clients and will parents be able to see me and my advertising against what could become a well established agency. At the meeting my aims are to find out what I need to do to stay ahead of the game. Could it become 2 tier I hope not, but there are going to be 2 separate trains of thought that you can't ignore.

[Simona]

This advert is very interesting Simona. It sounds similar to the role our LA development officers do. I personally do not mind jumping through the occasional hoop to help them justify their jobs, if it means that in our small borough ( with approx 200 childminders), our officers continue to do what ever it is they do.

Oh the irony of it!...I wonder were they got those ideas from!

I recall discussing these at DFE and with a certain minister 3 and half years ago...not sure how clever @Home childcare are ...or just taking hints from ICMs!

[Simona]

No orange moon are offering a package along the same lines as ****** (not sure if I'm allowed to say it) I don't know if it is provided by bds or they've set up their own. I know many CMs who welcome contracts, policies, obs online. So it is another appealing feature. Bearing in mind I only started CMing 2 years ago if an agency existed to help me set up my business I may well have jumped at the chance as I was not as confident in my own abilities as I am now. I can say with confidence that I wouldn't join now but for new CM's there is an appeal there. Personally I am thinking of the long term, to a day when I might be struggling to attract new clients and will parents be able to see me and my advertising against what could become a well established agency. At the meeting my aims are to find out what I need to do to stay ahead of the game. Could it become 2 tier I hope not, but there are going to be 2 separate trains of thought that you can't ignore.

You are correct that...when first starting...cms welcome all the help they can get in looking at paperwork, having a contract in place...devising policies and also having some knowledge of how to run a business.....going through EYFS thoroughly so all new cms have a good grasp of it
In the past they had to undergo a small test to 'Pass' their knowledge of the course....not sure they do now?

Often other Ofsted registered cms just helped along to smooth the passage to registration...all hands on deck!
they used to 'signpost' new cms to inform themselves in setting up a new business and understand it
they never had paperwork they could copy or buy and which meant little to them!...devising their own was so satisfying.

All that is now gone...because the LAs dropped any help for cms ...or now charge dearly for it

Many LAs are, I am sure, actually helping agencies set up and do all the above....I remember speaking to one agency who said exactly that

I remember all those people who lost their jobs at ET teams...how great to tap into their knowledge and I bet a lot may end up replying to those mentor's adverts for Orange Moon?


The main problem with all this is the commercial companies or anyone making money ...the one BD or many others popping up...you can mention Tapestry here but not others....will make loads of money if the agency cms 'must' buy that package so all are 'cloned' into using the same paperwork
so easy for the agency to keep their eyes on and get someone else to monitor CPPD?
That means very little 'individuality' in an agency...as all cms do the same paperwork

Another reason to support them to stay out of agencies or get out if they can and the support is not right?

All this was available to all newly registering cms via the LA who trained them to register...many also had the help of 'Support Childminders' or those cms who wanted to help a fellow colleague get on the ladder of self employment

While I see where you are coming from and seeing this from many angles...I am sure all those angles have been taken from ICMs themselves.

WE can only wait and see....like me you have an agency on your doorstep and that must be worrying a bit

I am sure you will keep very alert...good luck!