Spending Review and EY funding announcement

[Simona]

Tomorrow we will hear what the new funding will be for 'free' childcare....this is just an alert ...if you needed one :rolleyes:
For those interested it will be at 12.30pm

I am sure many providers are holding their breath and see whether the promise of an increase in funding actually materialises :panic:

[moggy]

Am I right in thinking the 'from-the-Gov' figure, though, is not what we actually get (in the current situation anyway) as the LA cream off a chunk for their own use? Do we know what the current national from-the-Gov figure is, to compare to what they tell us tomorrow? IYSWIM? I suspect it will all be as clear as mud as usual...

[Mouse]

Am I right in thinking the 'from-the-Go' figure, though, is not what we actually get (in the current situation anyway) as the LA cream off a chunk for their own use? Do we know what the current national from-the-Gov figure is, to compare to what they tell us tomorrow? IYSWIM? I suspect it will all be as clear as mud as usual...

I know it's not easy to find the actual figure because I've looked before. I just know it's a lot more than our LA pays us.

[Simona]

Am I right in thinking the 'from-the-Gov' figure, though, is not what we actually get (in the current situation anyway) as the LA cream off a chunk for their own use? Do we know what the current national from-the-Gov figure is, to compare to what they tell us tomorrow? IYSWIM? I suspect it will all be as clear as mud as usual...

My understanding is that the 'new' funding is not known as yet...see what Osborne is left with after spending so much on defence and asking LAs to cut budget by up to 30%...and also having to backtrack on tax credits :angry:

If the new funding goes to the LAs...and I think Gyimah in his recent speech said it will ...and the LAs cream off again ...then the whole thing has been a waste of time and effort!...then we may be at war

I heard there may be variations...with London getting a bit more...but they maybe just wishful thinking!

I have my seat booked for tomorrow at 12.30 pm...fingers and everything else crossed!!

I have a figure in mind that tight Osborne may announce ...wish I could bet on it!

Sorry to ask ...but what is IYSWIM? I see it a lot but have not worked it out :blush:

Mouse...the current figure should be £5.09...which was announced by Truss with much fanfare...I sat a few rows in front of her when she said that....some get nowhere near that!:

[loocyloo]

If You See What I Mean :-)

[Simona]

If You See What I Mean :-)

Crickey... how could I not have worked that out.
Getting old!
Thank you

[mumofone]

Tomorrow we will hear what the new funding will be for 'free' childcare....this is just an alert ...if you needed one :rolleyes: For those interested it will be at 12.30pm I am sure many providers are holding their breath and see whether the promise of an increase in funding actually materialises :panic:

I'll be on a school run at that time but trust you'll be feeding back to us! :-) She said hoping...! X

[Mouse]

Mouse...the current figure should be £5.09...which was announced by Truss with much fanfare...I sat a few rows in front of her when she said that....some get nowhere near that!:

Thank you Simona. I knew it was £5 something, but it's very hard to find the actual figure anywhere.

I'm sure a new figure will be announced with great fanfare, but the real interest will be in the detail - will the LA continue to keep a percentage, will there be any limits on how much they can keep or any guarantees on how much providers actually get?
Unless some sort of ring-fencing is put in place I can see it all being a pointless exercise.

[BallyH]

Thank you Simona. I knew it was £5 something, but it's very hard to find the actual figure anywhere.

I'm sure a new figure will be announced with great fanfare, but the real interest will be in the detail - will the LA continue to keep a percentage, will there be any limits on how much they can keep or any guarantees on how much providers actually get?
Unless some sort of ring-fencing is put in place I can see it all being a pointless exercise.

Yes, what, up the payment so the LA's can keep the difference! I hope they don't just announce a price and leave us having to find out individually how much our LA's will be offering.

[mama2three]

Yes, what, up the payment so the LA's can keep the difference! I hope they don't just announce a price and leave us having to find out individually how much our LA's will be offering.

oh im sure that's exactly what they will do. Announce a high rate ...let the public know how much they are putting into the scheme , let the public think we are rolling in it , .....whilst the reality will be very very different.

[Simona]

Thank you Simona. I knew it was £5 something, but it's very hard to find the actual figure anywhere.

I'm sure a new figure will be announced with great fanfare, but the real interest will be in the detail - will the LA continue to keep a percentage, will there be any limits on how much they can keep or any guarantees on how much providers actually get?
Unless some sort of ring-fencing is put in place I can see it all being a pointless exercise.

Give me a little time and I will go find that toolkit...it is on the DfE website.

One thing we must remember is this:
The current funding we get for 15 hours free childcare was announced at the spending review in the past and covers 2015-2016 ....so what the LAs are giving us now has already been given to them a long time ago.
They do cream off and govt is well aware of it but did nothing.

The announcement today will be for the allocation to LAs for 2016-2017 and so on...I think it starts Sept 2016...that will cover the 30 hours of childcare that implementers will get ...it will also cover allocations to charities I think.

The only thing we can do is wait ...then I think the real debate will begin...there has been no talk of ring-fencing childcare funding again...it was ring-fenced until this govt took over in 2010.

In the end we can call their bluff....poor funding means the govt goes deeper in trouble as already they have not enough providers and not enough childcare spaces...the Ofsted statistics yesterday are a real alarm bell and big providers are reporting trouble in recruiting people because of the GCSE demand on Level 3.

If LAs cream off again and we agree to their funding then they win again.

Truss's More Great Childcare ...was and still is... nothing more than hot air...if we don't start acting now we will be losing more and more cms

My association has a Divisional meeting in early December and the funding is on the agenda and I am going to put my views forward.

Mama2three...the reality is different and I personally think we have allowed parents and the general public to believe in this free childcare saga.....few parents are aware of how we subsidise it...often the poor subsidise the better off.
I don't think it will happen again...the sector has learnt its lesson although there are 'some settings' queuing up to offer the 30 hours....I wonder why?

Will Ofsted come out in support of providers ?

[Simona]

These are the toolkits I found regarding LA's funding

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/392709/Hourly_rates_for_2-year-olds__2015_to_2016.pdf


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-benchmarking-tool


https://t.co/nAGa9tzkzG

[Simona]

After all the hype all that was announced was a 6bn investment in childcare for the 30 hours.
No new funding rate announced so far...so calculators will be doing the sums now.

Utter rubbish!

[Mouse]

After all the hype all that was announced was a 6bn investment in childcare for the 30 hours.
No new funding rate announced so far...so calculators will be doing the sums now.

Utter rubbish!

Thanks for the update Simona. I've been manically busy and haven't had time to look.

I really didn't expect an actual figure to be announced, so it's no surprise that we're none the wiser. I assume they'll wait until all the trials are done with the early implementers before they even think of putting a figure on it.

Ah well, back to the waiting and wondering.

[Simona]

The 30 hours will be ONLY for parents who work 16 hours.
One of the issues being debated now is how providers check 'eligible' parents are working...this is not clear but I would assume the 'implementers' will get to that point in September 2016.

How will they implement this policy not knowing how much they get is a mystery.
Free school meals and EYPP are protected

All in all Osborne announced this in less that a minute...in one sentence in fact...all we were promised did not materialise...so you are right Mouse we keep waiting :angry:

[Simona]

Just to add that 15 hours in for all families
The additional 15 hours only if they work 16 hours...so it is a push for parents to get to work .

[moggy]

Foundation Years on facebook just said:


George Osbourne has announced that eligibility for free 30 hours childcare for 3 and 4 year olds has changed. Free childcare will now be available to 3 and 4 year olds whose parents work at least 16 hours a week and are on less than £100,000 a year. He also committed £300 million for the free 30 hours childcare. The funding rate will be announced later today.

So, more to come... (I am still predicting the clarity of mud)

[Simona]

Yes...I am following PLA's feed on twitter for the latest updates.

I think that before parents had to work 8 hours ...now it is 16?

The funding rate will be announced in the Childcare Bill apparently which is taking place at the same time today.
There is also a mention of a new National Funding Formula

Parents also have to work 16 hours to claim the Tax Free Childcare and ...yes...each can earn up to £100,000

More to follow!

[Simona]

Just released by the DfE...despite what appears to be an increase in funding there is also a savings of £215m...crafty!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/department-for-educations-settlement-at-the-spending-review-2015

[moggy]

'doubling free childcare from 15 hours to 30 hours a week for working families of 3- and 4-year-olds, worth up to £5,000 per child per year from September 2017, and investing over £1 billion more a year by 2019 to 2020 on free childcare places for 2-, 3- and 4-year-olds'

So, with my dodgy maths...

'up to' £5000 per child per year
divided by 38 term-time weeks a year = £131.58 per week
divided by 30 hours a week = £4.38 per hour ????

Please do correct my maths or my reckoning if I am way off here, but that is not an increase? (especially with LA creaming off some before it even gets to us)

?

I hope someone can explain this soon...

[Simona]

'doubling free childcare from 15 hours to 30 hours a week for working families of 3- and 4-year-olds, worth up to £5,000 per child per year from September 2017, and investing over £1 billion more a year by 2019 to 2020 on free childcare places for 2-, 3- and 4-year-olds'

So, with my dodgy maths...

'up to' £5000 per child per year
divided by 38 term-time weeks a year = £131.58 per week
divided by 30 hours a week = £4.38 per hour ????

Please do correct my maths or my reckoning if I am way off here, but that is not an increase? (especially with LA creaming off some before it even gets to us)

?



I hope someone can explain this soon...

£4.38 is the sum PLA arrived at in their research....if so many providers in some LA will still lose out.
Gyimah has just confirmed the new funding rate will be announced this afternoon

At the moment we don't know if LAs will be allowed to cream off in future...can they do so if there is a National Funding Formula?

Not long now...I could do with a glass of wine right now ! ...will settle for a cup of tea!

[Simona]

Here are the new funding rates confirmed by Gyimah...

3/4 year olds = £ 4.88 including EYPP...so the rate is £4.35 + 53p for EYPP
2 year olds = £5.39

Back when I hear more but this was a waste of our time 'me thinks'!!

[Mouse]

Here are the new funding rates confirmed by Gyimah...

3/4 year olds = £ 4.88 including EYPP...so the rate is £4.35 + 53p for EYPP
2 year olds = £5.39

Back when I hear more but this was a waste of our time 'me thinks'!!

So less than it is now? I though the government had guaranteed the rate would be increased.

If the £4.35 is the amount that I receive it'll be OK. If the LA keeps 30%, as they do now, it would put it down to just over £3.

[Simona]

So less than it is now? I though the government had guaranteed the rate would be increased.

If the £4.35 is the amount that I receive it'll be OK. If the LA keeps 30%, as they do now, it would put it down to just over £3.

I hope someone will start crunching the figures soon...as to the creaming off we don't as yet know if LAs will be allowed to do so in future....it is a burning question of course!
If they do what would the point be of a National Funding Formula?

I am going back to ask just that...but I doubt Gyimah will answer as he never does.

[Mouse]

I hope someone will start crunching the figures soon...as to the creaming off we don't as yet know if LAs will be allowed to do so in future....it is a burning question of course!
If they do what would the point be of a National Funding Formula?

I am going back to ask just that...but I doubt Gyimah will answer as he never does.

Thanks for all the updates Simona.

[Simona]

Here is another update
It looks like there will be a consultation...oh yes another one ...on the Funding Formula

Those new funding figures will be from 2017...I am getting a bit lost here now...does that mean they are not final?



Chancellor reveals more details of 30-hour childcare | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1154922/chancellor-reveals-more-details-of-30-hour-childcare?utm_content=&utm_campaign=25.11.15%20NW%20Update&utm_source=Nursery%20World&utm_medium=adestra_email&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nurseryworld.co.uk%2Fnur sery-world%2Fnews%2F1154922%2Fchancellor-reveals-more-details-of-30-hour-childcare)

[Simona]

Ok ...Childcare Bill is being debated right now in HoC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05qB5zEW4PY&feature=youtu.be

Apparently Nicky Morgan will conduct an EY Funding Formula review...clear? :rolleyes:

[BallyH]

I feel another foggy headache coming on!

[Simona]

I feel another foggy headache coming on!

I have one already...in the meantime here is PLA's response to the new funding...just released

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/media/press-releases/739/alliance-responds-to-childcare-funding-changes

[Mouse]

I must admit, I do agree with the additional funding only being available to parents working 16 or more hours a week.

I did wonder why they originally said 8 hours. Why would a parent need an extra 15 hours childcare if they were only working 8 hours?

[Simona]

I must admit, I do agree with the additional funding only being available to parents working 16 or more hours a week.

I did wonder why they originally said 8 hours. Why would a parent need an extra 15 hours childcare if they were only working 8 hours?

I did too...how can anyone work 8 hours claim 30? I assumed it was 8 hours per parent per week.

Osborne has cut the threshold for earnings to £100,000 per parent...it was £300,000 combined before...that is where he is saving £215m.
I did ask about LAs creaming off...that will be part of the National Funding Formula Nicky Morgan will carry out ......apparently...but more info is required.

PS. Morgan was aske if funding will be ring fenced but gave no clear answer just that transparency was needed! The penny has dropped finally ;)

[AliceK]

Thank you for taking the time to do this today Simona :thumbsup:

xx

[Simona]

Cost of childcare review has just been published...happy reading!!

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479659/151124_Analytical_review_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

AliceK...no problem

This is so important for cms....but thanks go to PLA who is on the ball following all sorts of links!
I am just following them and then tweeting to Gyimah

[AgentTink]

The hours rate had just been released on the Foundation Years website:

Secretary of State for Education, Nicky Morgan, has announced the new average funding rate for the early years. The average hourly rate for free childcare for 3 and 4 year olds will be £4.88 including the EYPP, and for free 2 year old childcare will be £5.39. She also announced that a national early years funding formula review will also be conducted in 2016.

Earlier the Chancellor announced some changes to the 30 hours free childcare eligibility in the Spending Review. To be eligible parents needs to be working the equivalent of 16 hours per week per parent at the national minimum wage, and earning less than £100,000 per parent.

The DfE has also published the review (http://foundationyears.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=44faaa73d6419d1513179588a&id=1a9baacc4b&e=aeef25db4c) into how much it costs for childcare providers to manage the free early education entitlement for children aged 2 to 4.

[Simona]

The DfE has just published this research 'Cost of delivering the Early Education entitlement'

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479601/DFE-RR493_Cost_of_providing_the_early_education_entitl ement.pdf

Some more number crunching for you Moggy!

[bunyip]

So, no clear answer from the regime on the key points affecting providers:


What will be the hourly rate paid to us? = Dunno.
Will LAs continue to cream off money that is due to us? = Dunno either.


I'd also like to know where we stand on the test of parents being eligible for the funding. To be precise, if a family makes a fraudulent or erroneous claim (or their circumstances change so during an existing arrangement) who takes the risk and who bears the loss?

Will the parents be issued an eligibility letter (as with the current 2yo scheme) or will we have to take them on trust that they are entitled if they say they are? Clearly we're in no position to make intrusive 'means test' - style investigations into a family's work/financial arrangements.

:huh:

[Simona]

So, no clear answer from the regime on the key points affecting providers:


What will be the hourly rate paid to us? = Dunno.
Will LAs continue to cream off money that is due to us? = Dunno either.


I'd also like to know where we stand on the test of parents being eligible for the funding. To be precise, if a family makes a fraudulent or erroneous claim (or their circumstances change so during an existing arrangement) who takes the risk and who bears the loss?

Will the parents be issued an eligibility letter (as with the current 2yo scheme) or will we have to take them on trust that they are entitled if they say they are? Clearly we're in no position to make intrusive 'means test' - style investigations into a family's work/financial arrangements.

:huh:

Well some figures are there...but with a national review it may change again
I am unclear why they announced the new funding knowing Morgan was going to do another consultation?

There is a paragraph on LAs in the Childcare Review and it explains why LA 'retain' some funding at the moment...for administration they say.
When asked about ring fencing Morgan was not clear today.

The issue of parents' eligibility and who is responsible for finding that out is still being questioned...isn't there a threat in the Childcare Bill that parents and providers can end up penalised?
I have got that question in my agenda for my December meeting.

Is the new rate favourable to you Bunyip? will you gain for 3/4 year olds but lose for the 2 year old funding?

If you have time read the DfE research...it is more realistic than the Childcare Review and talks about early education not childcare....small sample of providers but key findings are more representative I think.

[BallyH]

Thank you so much for keeping us posted - very hot news straight off the press!
So are you thinking the rates they are quoting are after our LA's have taken the cream, because I could cope that that rate! But if not, well............

[bunyip]

Well some figures are there...but with a national review it may change again
I am unclear why they announced the new funding knowing Morgan was going to do another consultation?

There is a paragraph on LAs in the Childcare Review and it explains why LA 'retain' some funding at the moment...for administration they say.
When asked about ring fencing Morgan was not clear today.

The issue of parents' eligibility and who is responsible for finding that out is still being questioned...isn't there a threat in the Childcare Bill that parents and providers can end up penalised?
I have got that question in my agenda for my December meeting.

Is the new rate favourable to you Bunyip? will you gain for 3/4 year olds but lose for the 2 year old funding?

If you have time read the DfE research...it is more realistic than the Childcare Review and talks about early education not childcare....small sample of providers but key findings are more representative I think.

It's favourable if ring-fenced and we get it all. Otherwise, we're back to "who knows"?

So, all in all, until the national review is done, we're all left with "who knows?" :(

[Mouse]

I still don't understand how this is seen as an increase, which the PM said we would have...don't tell me he's fibbed again :eek:

If the current rate is £5.09, £4.35 definitely isn't an increase.

And if the £4.35 is the rate that we would actually receive, I'm sure that won't be an increase in all LAs.

It is annoying me that £4.88 is the main figure being quoted when a lot of us won't get the EYPP, but again, parents will see the figures and think we're raking it in!

And the word worrying me most is "average". Does that mean some areas or types of settings will be paid more than others?

[Simona]

I still don't understand how this is seen as an increase, which the PM said we would have...don't tell me he's fibbed again :eek:

If the current rate is £5.09, £4.35 definitely isn't an increase.

And if the £4.35 is the rate that we would actually receive, I'm sure that won't be an increase in all LAs.

It is annoying me that £4.88 is the main figure being quoted when a lot of us won't get the EYPP, but again, parents will see the figures and think we're raking it in!

And the word worrying me most is "average". Does that mean some areas or types of settings will be paid more than others?

Judging by peoples' comment we are all in the same boat...we don't know because no one expected a new funding and then a National Funding Formula to follow.

That consultation is one to look for when it comes around.

The funding for 2 year olds is £5.09 at the moment so if it goes to £5.39 it is a derisory increase...but...many LAs pay far more than that to attract providers.
My LA pays £6.10...so cms would lose 71p

For 3/4 year olds the funding is so varied there is no average...for many £4.88 is good and because it includes EYPP there will be less paperwork and administration but...as you say...not all children get EYPP if parents can earn up to £100,000 each.
so the actual funding for 3/4 'without' EYPP is £4.35..better for some but not others

Why employ such a big company like Deloitte if they did not come up with the goods?

Whatever the end result I don't feel this govt actually values Early years...so the campaign goes on....let the implementers work out what a con it may all be :rolleyes:

[loocyloo]

Judging by peoples' comment we are all in the same boat...we don't know because no one expected a new funding and then a National Funding Formula to follow.

That consultation is one to look for when it comes around.

The funding for 2 year olds is £5.09 at the moment so if it goes to £5.39 it is a derisory increase...but...many LAs pay far more than that to attract providers.
My LA pays £6.10...so cms would lose 71p

For 3/4 year olds the funding is so varied there is no average...for many £4.88 is good and because it includes EYPP there will be less paperwork and administration but...as you say...not all children get EYPP if parents can earn up to £100,000 each.
so the actual funding for 3/4 'without' EYPP is £4.35..better for some but not others

Why employ such a big company like Deloitte if they did not come up with the goods?

Whatever the end result I don't feel this govt actually values Early years...so the campaign goes on....let the implementers work out what a con it may all be :rolleyes:

THANK YOU SIMONA for all your efforts in reporting this back to us.

I've been hearing snippets all day, and then saw an email from foundation years and my first thought was 'so what is the funding if you don't have any EYPP children'. I have to say, if the funding for 3 & 4 yr olds WITHOUT EYPP is £4.38 ... then I won't be offering it anymore. Which is a shame, and may lose me children, but I can not afford to earn less than I already do!
I agree, I don't feel this govt values early years at all - we are just a 'tool' they can use to bribe families into thinking the govt is doing wonderful things, without thinking about the fact that we are people with our own families!

[Simona]

THANK YOU SIMONA for all your efforts in reporting this back to us.

I've been hearing snippets all day, and then saw an email from foundation years and my first thought was 'so what is the funding if you don't have any EYPP children'. I have to say, if the funding for 3 & 4 yr olds WITHOUT EYPP is £4.38 ... then I won't be offering it anymore. Which is a shame, and may lose me children, but I can not afford to earn less than I already do!
I agree, I don't feel this govt values early years at all - we are just a 'tool' they can use to bribe families into thinking the govt is doing wonderful things, without thinking about the fact that we are people with our own families!


thank you ...it's been a long day!
All we can do at the moment is being pro-active....read and digest and do some sums....plan in advance and also inform parents before they start thinking we have had an increase.

After all this is a long way away....4Children would say it is good unfortunately but they work for the govt!

I am sure there will be opportunities to meet and discuss...we also need to hear the response from those who represent us
I know PLA is doing the sums for us!

[greenfaerie]

Thanks for all this, I've found it really interesting.

The current 3/4 rate in my LA is £3.00. I refuse to believe that any legislation will cause my LA to pass extra money on to us CMs unless they are forced to. :S I'm not signing up with them to take funded children until it's at least equal to my hourly rate. I feel awful about it, but I'd feel like a fool if I signed up to be paid less money, less often and in arrears. O_o

[Simona]

I have a feeling the Spending Review has changed the amount of earnings when students start repaying their loans?

it seems to have gone unnonticed but, if true, it will have an effect on those practitioners getting a loan for EY degrees.

I am too tired to read through all of this tonight....maybe someone can take a look.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479539/bis-15-626-freezing-student-loan-repayment-threshold-government-response.pdf


Not sure about this as I have just picked it up but it looks like single parents who work less than 16 hours/part time also lose out on the 30 hours...They will still get 15 I suppose....what a muddle!

[natlou82]

I was wondering how this affects single parents, if they only get 15 hours I can see a huge backlash coming!

[blue bear]

I was wondering how this affects single parents, if they only get 15 hours I can see a huge backlash coming!

I'm sure I read some time ago in the proposal stage it's each parent in the child's home who has to be working 16 hours so single parents will still be eligible. It still allows for one parent not to be working though (split living separately ) and so capable to look after their child so brings up the question is this fair?

[Simona]

In the original proposal parents had to be working for 8 hours each to be eligible to claim the full 30 hours...that included single mums, single parents or carers and part timers.
Now they have to work 16 hours...that will probably exclude those of Zero hours contracts

While the press may be saying this is a wonderful policy there are many twists and turns and it is exclusive to those picked by this govt...working parents.

Another question that remains unanswered is: will the funding rise on a regular basis or will it remain stagnant as it was for the last 10 years where LAs did not increase our funding despite huge increases in our costs.

So far only PLA have flagged this up....let's see if others join in.

[Simona]

Another announcement by PLA

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/sectornews/451/300m-for-30-hours-scheme-as-plans-for-national-funding-formula-are-announced

[Simona]

PLA have produced this FAQs to help us understand the ins and outs of yesterday's Funding Review announcement with clarification on EYPP, parents' eligibility and more

The ghost of the ratio issue has reappeared as well :rolleyes:

Hope you find it useful!

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/pdf/faqs.pdf

[bunyip]

Just an aside: have they decided whether it is "childcare" or "education"?

If childcare, will they drop all the nonsensical rules about when it is delivered, session lengths, TTO, no weekends/evenings, etc. ?

If education, will a regime spokesperson stand up and admit to a policy which restricts access to education for those whose parents work too little or earn too much?

I think we should be told. :mad:

[Mouse]

I'm quite surprised at comments I have seen (mainly among cm friends), where people are hailing the announcement a big success and a good thing for childminders.

Very few seem to be questioning it and seem to think we'll all be getting £4.88 an hour when the 30 hours come in to force.

Personally, I think we've got more questions than answers (as usual) and I'm certainly not encouraged or placated by any of the announcements.

[Simona]

Just an aside: have they decided whether it is "childcare" or "education"?

If childcare, will they drop all the nonsensical rules about when it is delivered, session lengths, TTO, no weekends/evenings, etc. ?

If education, will a regime spokesperson stand up and admit to a policy which restricts access to education for those whose parents work too little or earn too much?

I think we should be told. :mad:

Oh yes we should be told...but what should the DfE tell us when they have not a clue and will get all suggestions from the implementers or Guineaa pigs willing to give their valuable ideas?

Good point about the 15 hours of early education versus 15 of childcare....the latter we should be able to give as we see fit and not over 38 weeks.
My take ....from what I have heard....is the govt did not expect to win the election and therefore this policy was a last minute thought....it backfired and now Morgan is lost.

Mouse...as I have said I personally think we need to be pro-active and reflect on this....I have read many thoughtful
comments on this issue...no need to rush and plenty of time for debate.

The DFE response is far from clear....as usual!

[Simona]

Bunyip...I forgot to tell you that 4 Children have now arranged for a number of meetings to discuss the 30 hours...these are up and down the country...have you received notification?

I would assume they will attempt to answer all the questions there and then.

[Simona]

The DfE has produced a FAQs factsheet on the 30 hours of childcare

http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/files/2015/11/Childcare-FAQs.pdf

[rickysmiths]

I'm quite surprised at comments I have seen (mainly among cm friends), where people are hailing the announcement a big success and a good thing for childminders.

Very few seem to be questioning it and seem to think we'll all be getting £4.88 an hour when the 30 hours come in to force.

Personally, I think we've got more questions than answers (as usual) and I'm certainly not encouraged or placated by any of the announcements.

I agree with you. People have leapt on the £4.88 but that includes money that childminders don't normally get and not all families get anyway. It is an average figure that indicates that there will be different amounts in different places.

I think people have shared the announcement without knowing what is going on. Even Pacey had to retract their first statement because they got it wrong!

I think we need to wait for a lot more information before we can comment.

[Simona]

I agree with you. People have leapt on the £4.88 but that includes money that childminders don't normally get and not all families get anyway. It is an average figure that indicates that there will be different amounts in different places.

I think people have shared the announcement without knowing what is going on. Even Pacey had to retract their first statement because they got it wrong!

I think we need to wait for a lot more information before we can comment.

I have shared all the announcements to keep cms informed of what is going on.
The initial reactions from many cms may be reactive but we now have the info to be able to look into this further when the time comes

You are correct ...we need to wait for a lot more to come and for providers to be given the chance to discuss and understand the ins and outs of all this...and what follows from the Funding Review.....it is not as clear and as simple as people may think.
Pacey have made a few comments and so have other representative associations....all in good faith and
to reassure providers....maybe you would like to link us to pacey's comments although I have seen quite a few.

Let's be pro active and not criticise for no reason at all....the important issue is to be informed :thumbsup:

[Simona]

Latest news on the funding rate, ratios, EYPP etc etc.

Lower staff:child ratios to bring down costs, says DfE | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1154964/lower-staff-child-ratios-to-bring-down-costs-says-dfe?utm_content=&utm_campaign=30.11.15%20NW%20Update&utm_source=Nursery%20World&utm_medium=adestra_email&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nurseryworld.co.uk%2Fnur sery-world%2Fnews%2F1154964%2Flower-staff-child-ratios-to-bring-down-costs-says-dfe)