Ob's

[mummyemma]

Hello all

Im in need of some advice please re obs, I was reading someone elses thread a couple of day ago and they were asking about CofEL (I have to say I didn't know what that was) !! and that made me even more worried about recording obs. I have my first child two afternoons a week and have made a start on his daily diary, however I'm wondering how in depth I need to be. So far ive done a getting to know me section, and in itself these are observations but just not linked to anything or written on a specific form. So what im asking is do you need to actually record these on a special form or could you just carry on like I am doing now, taking pics and writing a little "blah" and then just write the connection to specific area. Also I now need to know do you also have to link each ob to a CofEL ?! ahhhhhhhh dojng my head in !!!.

Thanks emma

[Ellisha]

I've not been doing this for long either! But I think I do roughly what you do for obs. Normally a photo (sometimes no photo), a brief description of what I observed and then how this links back to a learning area. Sometimes I add a bit about COEL if I think it's relevant to the observation. Sometimes I add a next step to my ob. I don't have a specific sheet I record any of this on. I also have a tracker to mark off where the child is in each learning area. My LA Advisor had a look through my Learning Journals and liked them, but did comment about me needed to detail COEL which I now do.

[moggy]

No, you do not need to link every obs to a CoEL. Only mention a CoEL when it is relevent and useful for you.

You can organise your obs any way you like.

I have a daily diary but that is just notes on naps/nappies/meals and where we have been. It goes with the child and parents write notes on how child sleeps/eats at home and a general communication tool.

A learning journal/learning journey (LJ) is usually where CMers note obs- and add photos, children's art work, assessments of progress and the 'all about me' input from parents etc
A LJ might be a scrap book, a ring binder, an online system like Tapestry... what ever suits you and the families.
Parents should see the LJ and be able to add to it, comment on it etc
Parents keep the LJ when the chiuld leaves.
Children should be part of their own LJ- looking at it, choosing what pictures go in it, showing it to parents etc (age appropriately)
You will try to get other settings to contribute and share LJ if the child is with another setting (ie: at yours and going to nursery)

But with a new child I like to make lots of obs and check them against EYO or Dev. Matters, and see if they are at the expected age-stage. You can call all these first obs 'starting points' or 'baseline' asessment and this is your record of where the child was when they started with you. From there you can show progress over time by making more obs over the weeks/months as the child develops.

But everyone has their own method and you could get 100 different descriptions from CMers here fo how they do their LJs/diaries/obs etc! Just get started, see what suits you, keep parents involved and adapt as you go. Note all your adaptations to your system in your SEF as it shows good reflective practice.

[mama2three]

My ljs are a photo , a little blah , a link or 2 , sometimes a next step. no forms , no tickboxes ....

[BallyH]

My ljs are a photo , a little blah , a link or 2 , sometimes a next step. no forms , no tickboxes ....

Mine are very similiar to this. My advice would be to start very simply then build upon it. The advice to put all updates and trials of new ways of doing things, into your SEf is excellant as Ofsted do like to see you reflectiing and always trying to improve yourself and the way you do things.

[Simona]

Ellisha...you say that your LA advisor mentioned to detail the CoEL...would you be so kind and share with us what she recommended you do or how?

there are... as Moggy says... many different opinions and personal ways of doing our Observations, Assessment and LJ
The EYFS is really clear what is required....some of us go to many lengths...some do everything online and others do very infrequent observations, others do ongoing observations but not record them all.

Moggy....I am confused by the statement we do not need to link CoEL to observations? and mention them when useful to us
How can we observe and not see the CoEL? I would say they are hard to 'describe' but easier to see in photos as an example because they are 'visible'

Maybe there is a new training on CoEL that I have missed or something in the CIF that has changed how we evidence CoEL as EYFS has not changed....just curious.

Mama2three...your LJ sounds very good...lots of photos...nothing beats photos for showing learning and CoEL!!

[mummyemma]

Brill, Thanks all for you replies and comments, I think im doing ok at the mo I haven't linked the pictures to anything yet Ive just put them in under a heading Getting to know me and written a little like "Ive had a busy week making friends with everyone and getting used to the dogs" that sort of thing !!. Moving on with that I Guess I would just carry on in the same vain but just link that to say personal development etc.

Next question !! sorry, one of you mentioned the self assessment form for Ofsted I think this is an online thing ? but when should you start with it ? this will be my 3rd week ?

Thanks emma

[mumofone]

I'm slightly baffled as to how some of us agonise over stuff like this and how to record things when rickysmiths apparently went completely paperless and nothing was said?!

[Simona]

I'm slightly baffled as to how some of us agonise over stuff like this and how to record things when rickysmiths apparently went completely paperless and nothing was said?!

I don't think anyone is agonising over this issue...we are sharing our way of doing assessment and as we know we do things slightly differently!
You did ask about the CoEL...alongside many other questions relating to Observations and assessment
maybe you are not aware that questions often trigger 'reflection'...your questions certainly do that to me....my CPPD has grown in pages.
Our response usually succeed for those who post the questions.

RS has definitely gone 'paperless'...I am not as knowledgeable on this and even RS said she was brave to do so....I certainly would like to see how it is done considering my paperwork was cut by 75%...I am very curious about it

We did comment on RS thread and hope we can have more insight into it...one particular well known Nursery always promotes 'paperless' practice and also do training for all on the subject.

I am sure that the inspector did say something to RS about her paperless system and awarded a Good grade to her....I'd like to hear more.

[mumofone]

I don't think anyone is agonising over this issue...we are sharing our way of doing assessment and as we know we do things slightly differently! You did ask about the CoEL...alongside many other questions relating to Observations and assessment maybe you are not aware that questions often trigger 'reflection'...your questions certainly do that to me....my CPPD has grown in pages. Our response usually succeed for those who post the questions. RS has definitely gone 'paperless'...I am not as knowledgeable on this and even RS said she was brave to do so....I certainly would like to see how it is done considering my paperwork was cut by 75%...I am very curious about it We did comment on RS thread and hope we can have more insight into it...one particular well known Nursery always promotes 'paperless' practice and also do training for all on the subject. I am sure that the inspector did say something to RS about her paperless system and awarded a Good grade to her....I'd like to hear more.

Again, I think some of what we say is lost in translation. It wasn't a dig at anyone Simona (especially not experienced professionals like yourself) but a comment about us new CMs on how we should best do observations and record them.

You don't always have to get "one up" with everyone on every thread Simona, it gets preet waring. And yes that last comment is a dig!

[mumofone]

I don't think anyone is agonising over this issue...we are sharing our way of doing assessment and as we know we do things slightly differently! You did ask about the CoEL...alongside many other questions relating to Observations and assessment maybe you are not aware that questions often trigger 'reflection'...your questions certainly do that to me....my CPPD has grown in pages. Our response usually succeed for those who post the questions. RS has definitely gone 'paperless'...I am not as knowledgeable on this and even RS said she was brave to do so....I certainly would like to see how it is done considering my paperwork was cut by 75%...I am very curious about it We did comment on RS thread and hope we can have more insight into it...one particular well known Nursery always promotes 'paperless' practice and also do training for all on the subject. I am sure that the inspector did say something to RS about her paperless system and awarded a Good grade to her....I'd like to hear more.

What's CPPD by the way I know cpd is continued professional development, what's the second 'p' for?

[mumofone]

Again, I think some of what we say is lost in translation. It wasn't a dig at anyone Simona (especially not experienced professionals like yourself) but a comment about us new CMs on how we should best do observations and record them. You don't always have to get "one up" with everyone on every thread Simona, it gets preet waring. And yes that last comment is a dig!


Oops should say "pretty wearing". Typos.

[redtiger21]

I actually probably need to "up my game" a bit on recording COEL. I feel I'm great at recording obs and knowing how they link to EYO, but I tend not to really write anything about COEL in them, other than at the end of their first 4-6 weeks with me, when I assess their starting points, and there I do write a couple of paragraphs about their coel, but that tends to be it. Maybe I should start including them in the odd regular observation....

[Simona]

Again, I think some of what we say is lost in translation. It wasn't a dig at anyone Simona (especially not experienced professionals like yourself) but a comment about us new CMs on how we should best do observations and record them.

You don't always have to get "one up" with everyone on every thread Simona, it gets preet waring. And yes that last comment is a dig!

Mumofone...I have not changed the way I write or how I respond for all the time I have input in this forum.
Not sure how you interpret my replies....all I am doing is contributing my experience not digging at anything and not getting 'one up' on anybody ...I have no reason to do that....what you say is very personal and honestly unfair
I am aware my replies can be direct and please comment if you think so
and I only reply to threads I have an interest in sharing ways of doing things....that is the main message about the CIF now

I am not any more professional than any other cm here...I too learn a lot from what is written and asked...your questions are a welcome reflection for me as are those posted by experienced cms.

[Simona]

Mumofone...The reason why CPD is now CPPD is because the CIF looks at Professional and Personal Development....so the other P has been added to cover that in the areas we are graded.

[mumofone]

Mumofone...The reason why CPD is now CPPD is because the CIF looks at Professional and Personal Development....so the other P has been added to cover that in the areas we are graded.

Oh fab thanks for clarifying, it's been bugging me for a while! :-) x

[mumofone]

Mumofone...I have not changed the way I write or how I respond for all the time I have input in this forum. Not sure how you interpret my replies....all I am doing is contributing my experience not digging at anything and not getting 'one up' on anybody ...I have no reason to do that....what you say is very personal and honestly unfair I am aware my replies can be direct and please comment if you think so and I only reply to threads I have an interest in sharing ways of doing things....that is the main message about the CIF now I am not any more professional than any other cm here...I too learn a lot from what is written and asked...your questions are a welcome reflection for me as are those posted by experienced cms.

Maybe it was unfair of me to insinuate or assume others were agonising over recording observations, maybe it's just me!

[BallyH]

I don't think anyone is agonising over this issue...we are sharing our way of doing assessment and as we know we do things slightly differently!
You did ask about the CoEL...alongside many other questions relating to Observations and assessment
maybe you are not aware that questions often trigger 'reflection'...your questions certainly do that to me....my CPPD has grown in pages.
Our response usually succeed for those who post the questions.

RS has definitely gone 'paperless'...I am not as knowledgeable on this and even RS said she was brave to do so....I certainly would like to see how it is done considering my paperwork was cut by 75%...I am very curious about it

We did comment on RS thread and hope we can have more insight into it...one particular well known Nursery always promotes 'paperless' practice and also do training for all on the subject.

I am sure that the inspector did say something to RS about her paperless system and awarded a Good grade to her....I'd like to hear more.

When Rs said she had gone paperless I assumed, rightly or wrongly, she done everyhting electronicially. If I'm wrong I'd love to know how she explained it all to the inspector. Maybe she should run classes.

[moggy]

...

Moggy....I am confused by the statement we do not need to link CoEL to observations? and mention them when useful to us
How can we observe and not see the CoEL? I would say they are hard to 'describe' but easier to see in photos as an example because they are 'visible'

...

Simona, you mis-quote me. I said 'you do not need to link every obs to a CoEL. Only mention a CoEL when it is relevent and useful for you.'

And I think that is correct. We do not need to link (and by 'link' I mean look up and note) a CoEL every time we make an obs. If we have to look up and find a relevent CoEL for every obs we make we'll be making work for ourselves! If I see a child demonstrating a CoEL when I am making an obs I note the CoEL via my online system with a written explanation because I find it relevent to what we are working on or what the child is into at that time or because it is something that will help me support the child's learning.
Of course we all observe CoEL all the time, we always have done even before they were mentioned in the EYFS or they were given a fancy title, but we do not have to write about them on every single obs we make. That is what I was trying to say!

[Simona]

Simona, you mis-quote me. I said 'you do not need to link every obs to a CoEL. Only mention a CoEL when it is relevent and useful for you.'

And I think that is correct. We do not need to link (and by 'link' I mean look up and note) a CoEL every time we make an obs. If we have to look up and find a relevent CoEL for every obs we make we'll be making work for ourselves! If I see a child demonstrating a CoEL when I am making an obs I note the CoEL via my online system with a written explanation because I find it relevent to what we are working on or what the child is into at that time or because it is something that will help me support the child's learning.
Of course we all observe CoEL all the time, we always have done even before they were mentioned in the EYFS or they were given a fancy title, but we do not have to write about them on every single obs we make. That is what I was trying to say!

Thanks for clarifying ...very clear and sorry if you felt I misquoted.
I wanted your opinion.

[Simona]

When Rs said she had gone paperless I assumed, rightly or wrongly, she done everyhting electronicially. If I'm wrong I'd love to know how she explained it all to the inspector. Maybe she should run classes.

I found this from Kids Allowed who did run a course last year...I am sure they still do.
It is rather interesting what Jenny Johnson writes about paperless practice

Hope you find it useful...I need to read it again

Liberate yourself from paperwork - New Workshop (http://www.kidsallowed.com/social/liberate-yourself-from-paperwork/)

[moggy]

Thanks for clarifying ...very clear and sorry if you felt I misquoted.
I wanted your opinion.

No problem :)

[mummyemma]

So, Take a picture say a 'blah' And link it to an area of learning and then every now and then add a bit about Characteristics, When you do this do you just quote say PLAYING AND EXPLORING Child shows curiosity about objects because today they spent a while playing with a shape sorter putting the shapes in and out again ??

Also back to my other question when do you make a start on your self assessment thing ?

Thanks Emma

[moggy]

So, Take a picture say a 'blah' And link it to an area of learning and then every now and then add a bit about Characteristics, When you do this do you just quote say PLAYING AND EXPLORING Child shows curiosity about objects because today they spent a while playing with a shape sorter putting the shapes in and out again ??

Also back to my other question when do you make a start on your self assessment thing ?

Thanks Emma

Your first point- yes, basically that! Get started and as you go on you may find you refine your system, we all do.

SEF- start making notes all the time- when you do any training and what you have learned and actioned from that training and how it will help the children, when you read an article that prompts you to improve something or try something, when you invest in new resources and how they have helped the children learn, when you have a conversation with a parent that makes you change something you do for the better, when you discuss a CMer subject with an other CMer or professional and how that influences your work, when you read a EY magazine/journal etc etc. You can keep it as a note book or every 6-months or so you can write it up online and submit to Ofsted.

[mummyemma]

Thank you very much moggy much appreciated help

Have a great day

Emma

[Simona]

So, Take a picture say a 'blah' And link it to an area of learning and then every now and then add a bit about Characteristics, When you do this do you just quote say PLAYING AND EXPLORING Child shows curiosity about objects because today they spent a while playing with a shape sorter putting the shapes in and out again ??

Also back to my other question when do you make a start on your self assessment thing ?

Thanks Emma

Although we all do things 'differently' the EYFS is very clear on what it expects us to do...in all honesty it has really not changed for the last 15 years before the EYFS came out.

With regards to Observations we all observe differently and at different rates...some cms do 1 observation every now and then ...others observe all the time
the CoEL have to be evidenced in our Assessment...every time we observe they can be 'seen' because they are part of the child's learning and style
we differ in how we do this as Moggy explains below...some link every now and then others all the time.

SEF cannot be done until you have practiced a while and can reflect on what you do and how to improve...again we all differ in giving advice and how we use any reflective too
The reason for new providers to be inspected within 30 months is to allow practice to embed...I would give myself a few months of practice then start reflecting

By the way SEF is not compulsory...you can choose any other method!

[mummyemma]

Hello again, Thanks simona..... I worry about getting it spot on too much I think, hence in my other reply to you I said it took me 2 years to get going. What I need to be thinking is actually its all about building it up and making it better. There is no pre set model that must be copied to the letter just guide lines, maybe this it what does my head in !!! who knows.

Suck it and see that's my new moto !

thanks again

Emma

[Simona]

Hello again, Thanks simona..... I worry about getting it spot on too much I think, hence in my other reply to you I said it took me 2 years to get going. What I need to be thinking is actually its all about building it up and making it better. There is no pre set model that must be copied to the letter just guide lines, maybe this it what does my head in !!! who knows.

Suck it and see that's my new moto !

thanks again

Emma

You are right...setting up can vary
It took a few weeks for me to set up as a cm but a lot longer to start my preschool as the latter I started from scratch!

When it comes to Observations, recording, planning and assessment the system has not really changed...how we do it is personal to us....sorry I didn't explain it very well
We used to have Stepping Stones...now we have Early Learning Goals...same thing different terminology

If you don't get it spot on that is something you can reflect on!
Good luck!

[mummyemma]

:thumbsup:Wow You have a pre school ! Fair play to you,


Another question for you, I'm just gunna pick your brains right out lol

Do you have to/do you personally add a little bit from development matters ie.... The child I look after is 7months nearly 8, so he is in the brackets of birth-11 months and 8-20 months, Should I be labelling him for each area as to his development or is that a bit too pointing the finger specific.... Hope that makes some form of sense.

Thanks emma

[Simona]

:thumbsup:Wow You have a pre school ! Fair play to you,


Another question for you, I'm just gunna pick your brains right out lol

Do you have to/do you personally add a little bit from development matters ie.... The child I look after is 7months nearly 8, so he is in the brackets of birth-11 months and 8-20 months, Should I be labelling him for each area as to his development or is that a bit too pointing the finger specific.... Hope that makes some form of sense.

Thanks emma

Not sure if that was addressed to me... also not sure why you need to 'label' a child in an age and stage of development as per DM? no need at all.

if your child is 7 months I would look at that particular phase but look before and after in case the child is missing something or moving ahead of its development....so you can pinpoint if the child is emerging, expected or exceeding in your observations.

when we assess we should 'celebrate' achievements but being vigilant of any areas that need support and highlight them....no labels required!