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View Full Version : Government’s 30 hour childcare offer on hold until sustainable funding is put in plac



moggy
15-10-2015, 06:45 AM
Government (http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1571659/governments-30-hour-childcare-funding)

Hope this is the first nail in the coffin... or at least enoiugh to delay it until someone sees sense?

BallyH
15-10-2015, 06:52 AM
Excellant news. Thanks for sharing.

mumofone
15-10-2015, 06:54 AM
Yep thanks moggy :-)

Simona
15-10-2015, 07:40 AM
The Lords have requested an independent review and have ensured the 30 hours cannot be rolled out until the funding has been sorted...the amendments were successful.
They have also criticised the govt for lack of details....unfortunately this is a delay not an end to this scheme.

From the transcript you can see that Lord Nash ....who works at the DfE...is in a hurry
Read his reply at column 238 of the transcript...rather worrying use of words

The Government are committed to supporting working families. That is what the Bill is about. It enshrines that commitment in law, with a new duty on the Secretary of State to secure 30 hours’ childcare for working parents of three and four year-olds. As the Secretary of State set out last week, the Department for Education’s focus should not be stakeholders or vested interests; our focus is unashamedly on children and their parents. The Bill makes that clear.
Link to the transcript is here
Lords Hansard text for 14 Oct 2015 (pt 0001) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldhansrd/text/151014-0001.htm#15101443000827)

More here if you want to see the amendments especially Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and more information
https://www.politicshome.com/education/articles/story/labour-eyes-government-defeat-over-childcare-funding


This is also a great blog by Baroness Jones criticising the govt for lack of details
A dereliction of duty - Labour Lords (http://www.labourlords.org.uk/a_dereliction_of_duty)

TinyTinker
15-10-2015, 08:07 AM
Am I the only one disappointed with the delay? I was liking the idea of it being 30 hours.....but then again my LA pay my normal hourly rate for funded hours so it doesn't effect me and thought maybe I'd get more business where pre-schools set up for 3 hours a day were unable to offer more etc.

mumofone
15-10-2015, 08:09 AM
Am I the only one disappointed with the delay? I was liking the idea of it being 30 hours.....but then again my LA pay my normal hourly rate for funded hours so it doesn't effect me and thought maybe I'd get more business where pre-schools set up for 3 hours a day were unable to offer more etc.

Errrr.....yes?!

Simona
15-10-2015, 08:24 AM
Am I the only one disappointed with the delay? I was liking the idea of it being 30 hours.....but then again my LA pay my normal hourly rate for funded hours so it doesn't effect me and thought maybe I'd get more business where pre-schools set up for 3 hours a day were unable to offer more etc.

There is a little confusion on the roll-out date due to the successful amendments yesterday

The 30 hours is due to be implemented in Sept 2017 as per Childcare Bill.
Those settings who have responded to the DfE...who is very keen to implement as soon as possible.... and have come forward as 'volunteers' to trial the scheme for the DfE by offering 'innovative' ideas can start offering it in Sept 2016...these are still trials.

The actual scheme cannot now be rolled out for the rest until the govt has done an independent review and come up with answers....so 2017.
Even the PM yesterday was jumping the gun at PM Question Time by mentioning the 30 hours while there is still no offer on the table for providers.

You are very lucky in the sense your LA is wise by paying the same funding as you charge fees...if only ALL the LAs paid us what is due we would not be in this position.

The other issue is that the govt will put the onus on LAs delivering the scheme...so we are going round in ever increasing circles!

That is my understanding from what was discussed yesterday following the lords' amendment...there will be plenty more to come....is all to do with politics I fear!

Mouse
15-10-2015, 08:34 AM
Am I the only one disappointed with the delay? I was liking the idea of it being 30 hours.....but then again my LA pay my normal hourly rate for funded hours so it doesn't effect me and thought maybe I'd get more business where pre-schools set up for 3 hours a day were unable to offer more etc.


I do think it was a snap decision to add it to the election manifesto without considering whether it could actually work, so it's right that there are delays on it being implemented.
It's not just the amount of funding that's the issue, but how the whole thing will work. Who will be responsible for checking that parents do actually qualify? I wouldn't be happy having to make the decision on whether or not they met the criteria. There are too many questions and not enough answers, so I'm pleased these will be looked at before the scheme is started.

Simona
15-10-2015, 09:06 AM
Very important to keep that issue in mind Mouse...it is quite worrying especially if LAs are put in charge of providing the 30 hours....who knows what 'conditions' they will impose?.
Baroness Jones has addressed that in her blog below

Lord True...who is incidentally my council leader... has raised serious questions on the 'criminality' of parents not disclosing the right information...there is a threat of prison but it also involves providers

This was raised by The independent in June this year: fear of prison for parents and providers as well

Childcare Bill contains threat of two years in jail for parents, critics warn | Health & Families | Lifestyle | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/childcare-bill-contains-threat-of-two-years-in-jail-for-parents-critics-warn-10334263.html)

mama2three
15-10-2015, 10:50 AM
''our focus is unashamedly on children and their parents''.

untrue. Some parents.
children dont come into the picture at all ...

Tinytinker asked if shes the only one who thinks its a good thing.

More and more I feel like Im the only one who sees it less as a funding issue and more as a travesty for less privileged children.

Only a day or 2 ago I was reading government info that the attainment gap is closing. Well this is going to blow it so far apart I fear it will never be mended.

Mouse
15-10-2015, 11:24 AM
''our focus is unashamedly on children and their parents''.

untrue. Some parents.
children dont come into the picture at all ...

Tinytinker asked if shes the only one who thinks its a good thing.

More and more I feel like Im the only one who sees it less as a funding issue and more as a travesty for less privileged children.

Only a day or 2 ago I was reading government info that the attainment gap is closing. Well this is going to blow it so far apart I fear it will never be mended.

You're completely right. The funding has got nothing to do with the children. It's all to do with winning votes and encouraging parents back into work.

Personally, I still never understand why parents expect the government to fund their childcare. If you plan on having children and going back to work, you should know you're going to have childcare costs and not assume the government will pay it for you. Sorry, went a bit off track there!

The distinction between "childcare" and "education" is far too unclear. The hours for 3 & 4 year olds should be used for education (so available to all), not for childcare, which is what the proposed 30 hours offer. The government is making a complete mess of it all by trying to combine the two. If they're going to fund education - fund it for all. If they're going to fund childcare they should have a rethink and not pretend it's for the benefit of the children.

loocyloo
15-10-2015, 12:12 PM
You're completely right. The funding has got nothing to do with the children. It's all to do with winning votes and encouraging parents back into work.

Personally, I still never understand why parents expect the government to fund their childcare. If you plan on having children and going back to work, you should know you're going to have childcare costs and not assume the government will pay it for you. Sorry, went a bit off track there!

The distinction between "childcare" and "education" is far too unclear. The hours for 3 & 4 year olds should be used for education (so available to all), not for childcare, which is what the proposed 30 hours offer. The government is making a complete mess of it all by trying to combine the two. If they're going to fund education - fund it for all. If they're going to fund childcare they should have a rethink and not pretend it's for the benefit of the children.

Can't like on my phone, but I agree totally with everything you said.

moggy
15-10-2015, 12:18 PM
Am I the only one disappointed with the delay? I was liking the idea of it being 30 hours.....but then again my LA pay my normal hourly rate for funded hours so it doesn't effect me and thought maybe I'd get more business where pre-schools set up for 3 hours a day were unable to offer more etc.

They pay your hourly rate for 15-hours a week now, no guarantees they'd pay that much for 30-hours a week when the whole scheme has to be re-organised and re-budgeted. There are so many unknown I don't think anyone can really welcome it wholeheartedly... the admin required in unknown, how/who judges parents are 'working' and what working hours/days will count?, how/if/can other group settings/schools take children for such long hours and how will that impact CMers... etc etc

BallyH
15-10-2015, 12:31 PM
They pay your hourly rate for 15-hours a week now, no guarantees they'd pay that much for 30-hours a week when the whole scheme has to be re-organised and re-budgeted. There are so many unknown I don't think anyone can really welcome it wholeheartedly... the admin required in unknown, how/who judges parents are 'working' and what working hours/days will count?, how/if/can other group settings/schools take children for such long hours and how will that impact CMers... etc etc

Besides being furious that I'm underpaid by my LA for providing the 15 hours funding, I'm concerned that parents will latch on to the 'childcare' hours and 'education' hours and expect MORE from me. I feel I'm working at 'full steam' all day every day, at the moment as it is cos that is how I work. I can't give anymore! Plus some parents don't appreciate things when they are free - and this has been spoken about before on other threads. I'm concerned!.

Simona
15-10-2015, 12:37 PM
To be fair many have raised concerns about this scheme for a while...there are plenty of comments here too.
It has nothing to do with children but parents pushed back into work....Mama2Three comment is spot on.
Cameron announced it very quickly to better the offer of 25 hours but that was costed and for ALL families

What puzzles me is that we now get funded for 'Early Education' for 15 hours...if in future we have to give 'childcare' who says we can't charge full fee if it is childcare? it is not written in stone until we get an offer on the table.
We need to raise our concerns individually and question if this is in the interest of children?

There is lot of talk on expansion for nurseries but nothing on how cms could do this too...unfair.
Below is the response from some of the associations...it is about sustainability not children's well being unfortunately

Moggy is right...it is because there are few details that the Lords amended the Childcare Bill...now we can ask more questions especially around the eligibility criteria for parents and that it has no repercussion on providers.
It is a pain to go through all the debates but the contents are interesting

Peers vote for full funding review into free childcare expansion | Children & Young People Now (http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/1154258/peers-vote-for-full-funding-review-into-free-childcare-expansion?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)