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moggy
06-10-2015, 05:40 PM
Morgan: Schools must offer working-day childcare - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34453564)

mumofone
06-10-2015, 05:58 PM
Morgan: Schools must offer working-day childcare - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34453564)

Urgh, i heard Cameron speaking about this this morning.....

He said that parents can specify the school stays open for them especially. And he said childcare providers can use the schools and pay them (I dont get how this would ever be worth it for childminders??).

I already had a family contact me though because although their school now does clubs til 6.30pm or something that was no good for them and they needed someone until 7pm but I cant see many schools providing care this late??

They just dont seem to "get it"!

Also, cameron was banging on about how they are offering 30 hours up from 15 hours for 3-4 years old but what about 2 year olds? 2 year olds only get anything if they are deemed needy of it so massive gaps all over the place if you ask me which is excatly why I had to give up working to be a CM myself as only I can offer the hours that I realistically need!

moggy
06-10-2015, 06:04 PM
yes, and is A N Y O N E asking 'What it's like to be a child in... (isn't that what Ofsted say?) a school from 8am to 6pm every Mon-Fri of their childhood?

mumofone
06-10-2015, 06:40 PM
yes, and is A N Y O N E asking 'What it's like to be a child in... (isn't that what Ofsted say?) a school from 8am to 6pm every Mon-Fri of their childhood?

Exactly. These parents approached me because they said fair enough the school provide after school care for their children but they didn't want then stuck in a school environment all day every day for that long.

natlou82
07-10-2015, 05:47 AM
mumofone, there are plenty of parents who feel that way. My junior school offers free sports clubs after school until 5:30 and I still have children come here instead. The schools would usually charge for wraparound and although some parents would go for it there are a lot that would still prefer for their LOs to actually leave the school building and return to a homely environment. This will certainly be my approach if schools do go this way.

Maza
07-10-2015, 08:49 AM
yes, and is A N Y O N E asking 'What it's like to be a child in... (isn't that what Ofsted say?) a school from 8am to 6pm every Mon-Fri of their childhood?

Fantastic point. Last year I did supply teaching in a school one day and at the end of it I had to drop a couple of the children to the after school club in a classroom. I wasn't even questioning it until I dropped them off in the room down the corridor. It just felt so tough. These were nursery children and they would be there for the next two and a half hours. The furniture in the room was school tables and school chairs. In a home they could be resting their little bodies on a big comfy sofa. It might seem strange that that is the one issue that jumped out at me, but it really did. :(

Mouse
07-10-2015, 10:09 AM
Fantastic point. Last year I did supply teaching in a school one day and at the end of it I had to drop a couple of the children to the after school club in a classroom. I wasn't even questioning it until I dropped them off in the room down the corridor. It just felt so tough. These were nursery children and they would be there for the next two and a half hours. The furniture in the room was school tables and school chairs. In a home they could be resting their little bodies on a big comfy sofa. It might seem strange that that is the one issue that jumped out at me, but it really did. :(

If anyone ever asks what a childminder can offer that a nursery or after school club can't, one of my replies is always "a sofa"!

I know many nurseries have a comfy corner with little chairs and sofas, but that isn't a chill-out zone, it's usually a reading zone or quiet activity area. What children need is a comfy sofa to sit on! Physically they need to be able to rest their bodies and mentally they need somewhere comfortable to be able to sit and relax their minds. In some settings children have a full day of activities and stimulation. When do they get chance to just sit, relax their bodies and just switch off for a while?

Simona
08-10-2015, 10:17 AM
The BBC article omits a very important part: the bit about cms approaching the school to run a wraparound club.
CMs can also approach any school to run a club if they want to....at the same time many Out of School club are being forced out by schools...this is documented in Nursery World.

Schools now have to publicly declare why they do not want to open wraparound care or signpost parents to cms who offer that service.

The very same request was made by Gove and Truss years ago when they both asked schools to stay open from 8am to 6pm...it wasn't popular with schools so the message is being repeated now...and very well timed too in preparation for the 30 hours which the govt is expecting we will all provide...jumping the gun a bit!

That would be in line with what is happening in January 2016 when Cms can change their registration with Ofsted's approval and work from home as well as in other settings...it also links to some cms agencies who are schools.

I have posted this a few times
Childcare measures: Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/childcare-measures-small-business-enterprise-employment-act

I think this govt will get its way as it does not like to see schools closed for 13 weeks a year....for some cms these childcare Measures will be an opportunity to extend their services.

Simona
08-10-2015, 10:29 AM
More information here...NDNA already talking about this but no one has come out with a statement for cms
it was in More Great Childcare that the idea was put forward by Truss.

Providers and parents win right to request out-of-school care | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1154141/providers-and-parents-win-right-to-request-out-of-school-care?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Mouse
08-10-2015, 10:31 AM
Schools now have to publicly declare why they do not want to open wraparound care or signpost parents to cms who offer that service.

The very same request was made by Gove and Truss years ago when they both asked schools to stay open from 8am to 6pm...it wasn't popular with schools so the message is being repeated now...and very well timed too in preparation for the 30 hours which the govt is expecting we will all provide...jumping the gun a bit!


I think this govt will get its way as it does not like to see schools closed for 13 weeks a year....for some cms these childcare Measures will be an opportunity to extend their services.

I did think this proposal seemed the same as we've had before, that parents can request the school provides, or points them in the direction of, wrap around care, but that schools don't have to provide it themselves. It didn't work then, so I wonder why they think it will work now?

Mouse
08-10-2015, 10:36 AM
More information here...NDNA already talking about this but no one has come out with a statement for cms
it was in More Great Childcare that the idea was put forward by Truss.

Providers and parents win right to request out-of-school care | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1154141/providers-and-parents-win-right-to-request-out-of-school-care?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


And another thing that no one is mentioning is the cost. Schools may be forced to provide or arrange some sort of wrap around care, but there's nothing to say it will be affordable. I know a lot of the cheap school clubs here have shut because they're not financially viable. If parents are assuming they'll be able to force the school into providing cheap childcare, they may be in for a shock!

The school closest to me closed its (cheap) breakfast & after school clubs because they couldn't afford to keep running them, but they do offer wrap around care in the nursery where the extra few hours cost more than a full day with a childminder.

Simona
08-10-2015, 10:43 AM
I did think this proposal seemed the same as we've had before, that parents can request the school provides, or points them in the direction of, wrap around care, but that schools don't have to provide it themselves. It didn't work then, so I wonder why they think it will work now?

The previous one was ...in my view....an 'invitation' to open schools all hours and there was no requirement for schools to respond 'publicly' to parents
There was also no request for schools to direct parents to other providers such as cms...there is now....so I would assume there will be more effort from schools to work with other providers.

This is all to do with the 30 hours...it is all happening while the funding is currently under review
I have no doubt the govt will not stand by if schools do not co-operate...what I am thinking they will do is of concern....let's see what happens.

natlou82
09-10-2015, 08:20 AM
The infant school I pick up from sent out a letter showing willing, 10 children in a converted bus classroom....errr no! Don't think many parents showed interest which is what I believe the school wanted. So far no threat here, but with demand high and not enough CMs if one of us approached the school and they decided they could provide space it could majorly affect my after school business so I keep my eyes and ears open and have good connections to the other CMs - self preservation is key.

Simona
09-10-2015, 09:29 AM
The infant school I pick up from sent out a letter showing willing, 10 children in a converted bus classroom....errr no! Don't think many parents showed interest which is what I believe the school wanted. So far no threat here, but with demand high and not enough CMs if one of us approached the school and they decided they could provide space it could majorly affect my after school business so I keep my eyes and ears open and have good connections to the other CMs - self preservation is key.

That's is so ironic...I used to beg my LA to do better advertising for cms so that those who were able to offer wraparound/holiday care could have their services better advertised to parents rather than them use After school clubs or other services.
It fell on deaf ears and yet I was very happy to have more children in the holidays and always had spaces available.

if I remember correctly this scheme means that any of those clubs can have a ratio of 1:30....does anyone remember this when Truss announced it? no qualification but a high ratio.

If schools put barriers up then no one will take up the venues available...also I think some schools were charging a very high rent in the past to make money

All in all is another badly thought out scheme but the govt is desperate due to lack of spaces and also pressure from charities like Family and Daycare Trust and 4 Children...that is what worries me: a govt under pressure and one in a hurry to push reforms through....not a nice combination.

I tried to look for Nicky Morgan's full speech when she announced this prior to the conference but I cannot find it ...in that she clearly mentions cms.
Unfortunately it has brought up visions on the 2 schools who are now cms agencies...this is right up their street.

Simona
09-10-2015, 11:35 AM
Good questions here from Kathy Brody on childcare in schools
I was exchanging a few of my worries with her this morning.

School's Quandary (http://www.kathybrodie.com/viewpoint/schools-quandary/)