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JCrakers
06-10-2015, 01:46 PM
Well after 4hrs of constant scrutiny the inspector has gone. She was really nice and I felt at ease with her straight away...although I was glad to see the back of her..lol

I'm feeling absolutely drained although it was quite a positive experience I do feel like she should have bought along her scalpel and maybe taken a sample of my vital organs...lol


She gave me another good which I do need to be happy with although I'm not. She told me that I must be frustrated because if she was grading me under the old system I would have reached Outstanding but because Ofsted have raised the bar AGAIN, I haven't reached it. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Even though i've put a hell of a lot of effort into everything but hey-ho.
And because the inspections have changed and there are only 4 areas now I couldn't get outstanding in a certain area because they mainly run into each other.

It was VERY centred on teaching and how I teach and she said even though I had a fantastic knowledge of all the children's development but there were a couple of things that she wanted to see next time.

She said that although I do track each child I need to look at the children as a group as well so I can see if I'm lacking any resources for each area of development.

She said I mentioned that one child liked mark making but she couldn't see any readily available mark makers. Although I have pens, chalks, paints etc they only come out when the child asks for them or craft activity time and they are not available all the time. She would have liked to have seen some pens in the home corner for instance with some paper for making lists.
She then mentioned that I could maybe open up my double doors to the lounge so the smaller children can have a little book area or somewhere where they can freely choose books. I do have a bookcase where all the children are free to chooses books, she said it might be a good idea to have a separate one for the smaller children with little board books. I told her that I don't use my lounge for toys (only quiet TV time) She said I was limiting myself by not using the available space...I told her I still wouldn't be using my lounge for the toys....:thumbsup:
She also told me I would do well in doing a LV4 in childcare as I have level 3. I said that might be something to do in the future.

And although I was on my feet from 7am until 1.30pm without a cuppa or a sit down, having done playdough, glueing, indoor and outdoor play, changed a nappy, answered thousands of questions that she kept asking me she still expected me to have got the mindee to help with lunch....but I didn't.

So overall...it's all done which I'm very pleased about but feel like i've been pulled apart all ways and can never reach that highest bar that they keep setting higher and higher each time.

cs01
06-10-2015, 02:00 PM
Well done on your grade. I know exactly how you feel. I felt my inspection (before the summer) went a bit like yours. My inspector constantly fired questions at me whilst I was trying to look after three 2 year olds and I felt completely drained and deflated afterwards.

I vowed then that I will never go through another inspection again and 4 months later still feel the same!

At least now the pressure is off...for a while :-).

Rick
06-10-2015, 02:06 PM
Well done on your grade. You obviously put a lot of effort in and if parents are happy with you that's the most important thing.

BallyH
06-10-2015, 02:11 PM
I feel your exhaustion just reading this! Well done! I also feel your frustation in your writing and it's annoying as you have given it everything. Well done for sticking up for yourself and not opening your lounge for a load of little ones to read books - yeh, as if, we'd rather jump all over those lovely sofas etc.

Thank you for the long list of things she said and commented on. Try not to dwell on the negatives. You survived and should be very proud for being a committed independant childminder. Big hugs. 😃

FloraDora
06-10-2015, 02:25 PM
Well done, It's over now!
Thankyou for your feedback, interesting points she made......not sure what she really meant about whole group resourcing??

lollipop kid
06-10-2015, 02:50 PM
Well done, JCrakers. You're Outstanding to me (and I'm sure you are to your little mindees as well), so well done to do as well as you did under an ever-changing set of criteria.

Sometimes, I just think we'd do better with a crystal ball, and a tick-list when Ofsted come!

Lovely drink in order this evening for you, I think. Well done.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

Following your wonderful feedback, I've just order loads of little clipboards for "mark-making" in various areas. Now I just have to make sure the smallest children don't eat them/poke their eyes out with the pencils. :blush:

LK

Simona
06-10-2015, 02:55 PM
Phew...I bet your shoulders have dropped 2 inches!
No more worries now, relax and enjoy!

Flora Dora...group resourcing is part of the CIF...if I have understood it well...it is on page 6 under the Group of learners heading.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-inspection-framework-education-skills-and-early-years-from-september-2015

loocyloo
06-10-2015, 03:18 PM
well done.

xxx

rollypolly
06-10-2015, 03:29 PM
Well done, sound like you coped brilliantly! I to was told, on the old framework , I would have got outstanding , but was now graded good. I worked so very hard but never mind, it's all over.
Enjoy your evening xx

rickysmiths
06-10-2015, 04:28 PM
Well Done on your Good. I had mine in Sept and got a solid good I was more than happy and it was the best inspection I had had for years and the shortest. Only 3.5 hours.

I went rebel and did a paperless one! (no not all stuff on line no developmental paperwork at all, no Ljs, no trackers, no written planning nothing except 2 year checks) Still got a very good good so it goes to show.

mumofone
06-10-2015, 05:52 PM
Well after 4hrs of constant scrutiny the inspector has gone. She was really nice and I felt at ease with her straight away...although I was glad to see the back of her..lol

I'm feeling absolutely drained although it was quite a positive experience I do feel like she should have bought along her scalpel and maybe taken a sample of my vital organs...lol


She gave me another good which I do need to be happy with although I'm not. She told me that I must be frustrated because if she was grading me under the old system I would have reached Outstanding but because Ofsted have raised the bar AGAIN, I haven't reached it. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Even though i've put a hell of a lot of effort into everything but hey-ho.
And because the inspections have changed and there are only 4 areas now I couldn't get outstanding in a certain area because they mainly run into each other.

It was VERY centred on teaching and how I teach and she said even though I had a fantastic knowledge of all the children's development but there were a couple of things that she wanted to see next time.

She said that although I do track each child I need to look at the children as a group as well so I can see if I'm lacking any resources for each area of development.

She said I mentioned that one child liked mark making but she couldn't see any readily available mark makers. Although I have pens, chalks, paints etc they only come out when the child asks for them or craft activity time and they are not available all the time. She would have liked to have seen some pens in the home corner for instance with some paper for making lists.
She then mentioned that I could maybe open up my double doors to the lounge so the smaller children can have a little book area or somewhere where they can freely choose books. I do have a bookcase where all the children are free to chooses books, she said it might be a good idea to have a separate one for the smaller children with little board books. I told her that I don't use my lounge for toys (only quiet TV time) She said I was limiting myself by not using the available space...I told her I still wouldn't be using my lounge for the toys....:thumbsup:
She also told me I would do well in doing a LV4 in childcare as I have level 3. I said that might be something to do in the future.

And although I was on my feet from 7am until 1.30pm without a cuppa or a sit down, having done playdough, glueing, indoor and outdoor play, changed a nappy, answered thousands of questions that she kept asking me she still expected me to have got the mindee to help with lunch....but I didn't.

So overall...it's all done which I'm very pleased about but feel like i've been pulled apart all ways and can never reach that highest bar that they keep setting higher and higher each time.


Well done on your good, it sounds like you did all you could, you must be exhausted! I hope youre enjoying a large wine with your feet up!! :-) It makes me petrified for mine, they seem so harsh???! I have so many questions from this(!!).......How may children did you have, what ages did you have? What was your inspection activity?
I think that's so unfair about using your lounge etc. And also Im really worried about the need to have pens everywhere for mark making. I would say this was a choking hazard (lids) and that they could be used incorrectly (pen all over walls/carpet etc) if used without supervision surely????
Are the board books readily available to the little ones or do you get them out the bookcase yourself?

I dont understand the comments about how you would have got "outstanding" last time but not this time?

Sorry for waffling..! :-)

mumofone
06-10-2015, 06:00 PM
Oh i meant to ask too whether you did a SEF and raved about yourself in that? x

FloraDora
06-10-2015, 06:34 PM
Well done on your good, it sounds like you did all you could, you must be exhausted! I hope youre enjoying a large wine with your feet up!! :-) It makes me petrified for mine, they seem so harsh???! I have so many questions from this(!!).......How may children did you have, what ages did you have? What was your inspection activity?
I think that's so unfair about using your lounge etc. And also Im really worried about the need to have pens everywhere for mark making. I would say this was a choking hazard (lids) and that they could be used incorrectly (pen all over walls/carpet etc) if used without supervision surely????
Are the board books readily available to the little ones or do you get them out the bookcase yourself?

I dont understand the comments about how you would have got "outstanding" last time but not this time?

Sorry for waffling..! :-)

Just to answer your pens concern : I have markmaking organised like this: I have my normal bookshelf in my living room available during the week. - on 2 shelves I have mid week: lower shelf - height of 1 year old.....big spherical hand sized crayons that they can't get in their mouth and chunky pencil crayons, a little drawer unit with paper/ tracing boards/books/ colouring/ envelopes etc... in it - fine for little ones too. Magna draws.
On second shelf that LO's can't reach so for 2-4 - felt tips, wax, chalk, speciality and others that I change in and out...stencils, rulers, set squares, white boards and chalk boards. All in baskets, easy to put away...the young ones love just scribbling, no pen tops in sight, the older ones choose from next shelf up....but know they need to leave felt tips or whiteboard pens on shelf as they use them because of younger child...table is next to shelves. Any other Mark making is on the craft trolley in the dining room/ other side of door gate if young child here.

Pixie dust
06-10-2015, 06:56 PM
I dont understand the comments about how you would have got "outstanding" last time but not this time?


Basically everything changed in September with the new inspection framework.

mumofone
06-10-2015, 07:10 PM
Basically everything changed in September with the new inspection framework.

No I know that but just wondering how if you could get outstanding before that you can't now because surely what was outstanding then should still be outstanding if you see what I mean?

BallyH
06-10-2015, 07:18 PM
No I know that but just wondering how if you could get outstanding before that you can't now because surely what was outstanding then should still be outstanding if you see what I mean?

Yes. I also thought this was a harse comment from the inspector but maybe it's a warning to those of us still waiting.

Pixie dust
06-10-2015, 07:48 PM
No I know that but just wondering how if you could get outstanding before that you can't now because surely what was outstanding then should still be outstanding if you see what I mean?

They have changed the goal posts...the new framework has a new set of grade descriptors it is supposed to be harder to meet the criteria for Outstanding, the expectations are even higher now. I would highly recommend you read The Early Years Inspection handbook in has all the information about what the inspectors look for.

loocyloo
06-10-2015, 08:11 PM
They have changed the goal posts...the new framework has a new set of grade descriptors it is supposed to be harder to meet the criteria for Outstanding, the expectations are even higher now. I would highly recommend you read The Early Years Inspection handbook in has all the information about what the inspectors look for.

I was outstanding at my last inspection, as was my friend. We were at training and read through the new handbook and think we'll be lucky to be good!

Simona
06-10-2015, 08:41 PM
JCrackers...wait for your report than think whether you want to appeal if it is not factual and look at the recommendations she has made.
I am not convinced this inspector understands that mark making is NOT just using pens and they don't have to be on show as long as the children know where to find them, select the activity and initiate their learning.

The important thing is she observed your teaching .....that's where the main change is ....and looked at the children's outcomes.

lollipop kid
06-10-2015, 08:51 PM
Just to answer your pens concern : I have markmaking organised like this: I have my normal bookshelf in my living room available during the week. - on 2 shelves I have mid week: lower shelf - height of 1 year old.....big spherical hand sized crayons that they can't get in their mouth and chunky pencil crayons, a little drawer unit with paper/ tracing boards/books/ colouring/ envelopes etc... in it - fine for little ones too. Magna draws.
On second shelf that LO's can't reach so for 2-4 - felt tips, wax, chalk, speciality and others that I change in and out...stencils, rulers, set squares, white boards and chalk boards. All in baskets, easy to put away...the young ones love just scribbling, no pen tops in sight, the older ones choose from next shelf up....but know they need to leave felt tips or whiteboard pens on shelf as they use them because of younger child...table is next to shelves. Any other Mark making is on the craft trolley in the dining room/ other side of door gate if young child here.

FloraDora - your post has just inspired me to look again at how I store the children's art supplies so that toddlers are more catered for. At present we regularly do "drawing in our books", but I've now tracked down some large crayons and chalks (egg shaped ones - is that what you meant by spherical?), and will also dig out my Magna Draw kits (I've got 1 out constantly, and about 3 hidden away - Why hidden? I can't even remember!). Then it will also be out with the envelopes etc. (We have a mailbox in the garden for writing to the fairies - some envelopes in the shed beside the writing stuff would be nice, I think.)

Thanks again for the inspiration. I don't have an inspection any time soon (I think) - I just want to make it more fun for my little ones.

All the best,

LK

natlou82
06-10-2015, 08:53 PM
I just wanted to say well done :-)

poppy321
06-10-2015, 09:23 PM
Congratulations to u. Sounds like such hard work. I've read lots of yr posts and know how dedicated you are. It's so hard to prove everything that we do within the space of one morning. I can't quite get my head around having all our resources out for the children to be able to just help themselves to anything as and when they choose,plus the risk of safety and even dare I suggest pen,chalk all over the walls while 'm busy changing a nappy with another little one. Would there be any point in planning for the day? I just can't imagine anything but chaos if my little ones had easy access to arts and crafts! That doesn't mean that I don't do messy play,arts and crafts. It just done at the most appropriate time,ie not just as we r about to go up to school or as I'm serving tea!

Dragonfly
07-10-2015, 06:47 AM
Well done on your grade. It is still based on what inspector you get I thinks.

JCrakers
07-10-2015, 09:21 AM
Thanks everyone. :D

I did enjoy the experience of her being here, she was very nice. The comments she made about the new inspection framework having higher expectations were frustrating but at the end of the day I did my best and couldn't have done anymore so I'm happy with myself. I was thinking yesterday, if only I was inspected 2 months ago I would have reached that Outstanding but today I'm feeling better about my outcome. I will wait until my report comes out, I'm sure it will read well. :D

After reading my first post I hope I didn't panic anyone as it really was a good experience, a little nerve racking of course but you can only do what you do :D It was very thorough and at the end of the day it didn't matter that she wasn't able to tick off a couple of points in the outstanding box.

With the mark making the inspector had looked at an observation for my 44m old. I had said she had drawn a lovely detailed picture and gone on to say that I would provide mark making, which I did, but the pens, paints, chalks are all in boxes and got out at various times or crafts times. I do have a black chalk wall in the playroom but the chalks are on a high shelf, mainly because of the 23m old I have. I explained to her that if I nipped to the toilet I didn't want the younger children to get the chalks or pens (drawing on walls, furniture, or putting the chalks into mouths) She said what would happen if the chalks were put into mouths..... I suppose she had a point. Nothing would happen to the child....I just would have wet, chewed up chalks and I would have to clean up, and buy more chalks)
She said that a box of pens would be a good idea in the role play/home area and again I said I didn't want pen all over furniture which is why I only have pens at the table. My HOME, my decision. She couldn't see that but I wasn't budging on pens :)
I also have an easel which is flat packed while its not being used. I also have a magnadraw.

The advice I can give everyone is that Teaching is the main focus. We had collected leaves and sticks the previous day and we were glueing them onto Red and orange (Autumn coloured) paper. I had a 44m old who I gave her two pieces of card and explained that we could maybe glue them together so we could have a bigger area to work on. She followed my instruction of putting a thin layer of glue at the top of one of the sheets so she could stick them together, she did this unaided and then continued to stick her leaves, sticks.
I had a 36m old who needed a bit of help with the glueing the 2 sheets together, so I helped him and then he got on with the gluieng. (he did actually spend more time picking dried glue off his hands...lol)
I had a 23m old who just had a single piece of card and a pot of glue and brush, she just got on with pasting glue all over the paper and stuck loads of leaves on, then took them off again.

Throughout we spoke about where the leaves had come from, where we had picked them from, the colours, shapes (thinking back I could have talked to the children about why the leaves fall off and seasons but I was a bit conscious of the inspector sitting looking at me...lol)
At the end she asked me how the activity had gone, I said I thought it had gone well. She agreed and asked me what each child had got out of the activity. I said the younger child had enjoyed the sensory feel of the glue and her main enjoyment had come from the feel of the glue and putting leaves on and off rather than the outcome of the picture. The middle child had needed a bit of help because I knew him well and I knew he needed a bit of guidance, he enjoyed the activity and was eager and active to join in, he also enjoyed the sensory side of the activity as his main focus was picking off the glue...lol. The older child was working independently, following instruction well, and was placing the leaves in chosen positions to create an effect that she liked. She was excited that we had picked the leaves and was proud and active throughout.


I also had told her that my 3yr old mindee loved being outside and although he did love the craft, he loved being outside more (garden, park, walks etc) In his progress report she noticed that I had said we were going to look at recognising numbers as he was showing an interest in numbers in his play etc. She asked me how I was going to do that and I explained. She asked me how I take his main interest of being outside and the numbers so I told her we look for letters, numbers when out on walks, the school playground has a large amount of numbers on the floor and when were waiting for the children to come out we stand on the numbers and he runs around telling me what they are etc. She said she would have liked to have seen numbers out in the garden maybe. I said we do take chalks outside to write on the patio etc.

Mindee 36m has never been a good eater so he didn't eat his lunch and she said it would have been a good idea to have involved him in the spreading of the bread, adding fillings etc. which I didn't do but then I cant think of everything :rolleyes:

So, it was a thorough but nice experience and I think if I had tweaked a couple of things I might have reached the Outstanding but that's ok..Im happy :D

JCrakers
07-10-2015, 09:30 AM
Well done on your good, it sounds like you did all you could, you must be exhausted! I hope youre enjoying a large wine with your feet up!! :-) It makes me petrified for mine, they seem so harsh???! I have so many questions from this(!!).......How may children did you have, what ages did you have? What was your inspection activity?
I think that's so unfair about using your lounge etc. And also Im really worried about the need to have pens everywhere for mark making. I would say this was a choking hazard (lids) and that they could be used incorrectly (pen all over walls/carpet etc) if used without supervision surely????
Are the board books readily available to the little ones or do you get them out the bookcase yourself?

I dont understand the comments about how you would have got "outstanding" last time but not this time?

Sorry for waffling..! :-)

It wasn't so bad mumofone...you can only do what you do :D
I had a 44m old, 36, old and a 23m old and we had collected leaves which we were either going to paint/print or glue. My 44m old mindee said she wanted to glue them so that's what I decided to do at the time.
I do have a low bookcase which the children choose books from, she just commented on having a little area with hard books for the 23m old but at the end of the day that was only her personal opinion. I'm not going to change the way I do things as the bookcase is perfectly fine. :thumbsup:

This was just 1 individual inspectors views and they can differ hugely. If I'd had someone else they may have picked out something completely different that I wasn't doing. I took her comments on board but don't have any intention of opening up my lounge. I already have a big playroom and dining area which is sufficient.
So don't worry, when your day comes, you'll be great

Simona
07-10-2015, 09:55 AM
JCrackers...after a good night sleep you are feeling a lot more positive about your inspection....or was it that glass of wine that did the trick?

Can I ask what emphasis the inspector put on 'paperwork' as you rightly said teaching is now the focus
Reading about Rickysmiths and the fact she went totally 'paperless' is so heart warming...what where you asked to evidence?

Did you have any children receiving EYPP?
one thing the inspector could have done is acknowledge you have a Level 3..not required for cms....then encourage you go forward with level 4.

Well done again!

Mouse
07-10-2015, 09:58 AM
Well done! It sounds as if it was a very positive experience and a good outcome :clapping::clapping:

JCrakers
07-10-2015, 10:14 AM
JCrackers...after a good night sleep you are feeling a lot more positive about your inspection....or was it that glass of wine that did the trick?

Can I ask what emphasis the inspector put on 'paperwork' as you rightly said teaching is now the focus
Reading about Rickysmiths and the fact she went totally 'paperless' is so heart warming...what where you asked to evidence?

Did you have any children receiving EYPP?
one thing the inspector could have done is acknowledge you have a Level 3..not required for cms....then encourage you go forward with level 4.

Well done again!

The wine helped Simona :D
I do offer the EYPP but don't have any children on role atm due to being full and not having any available spaces.

I gave the inspector all my folders when she arrived. As well as the usual (folder full of setting info, DBS checks, fireplan, etc, A personal dev folder with certificates in and parent feedback, accident/med book, daily register, 3 way communication books which go to and from nursery/preschool ) I gave all 5 LJ's to look through which had progress reports, 2yr checks in, my tracker folder, obs and next steps folder (obs very short, 1 sentence with links to EYO and next steps)
I also showed her a Transition to school report I did last year on the computer.

I suppose if you can tell the inspector how well you know the child and how you monitor their development, plan and move them forward without all the paperwork that's fantastic. I don't think I would be able to manage that in fear of having a mind block on the day. Well done to RickySmiths for doing that...very brave :D

hectors house
07-10-2015, 04:21 PM
Well done on your inspection and thanks for such detailed feedback - I find for free access to mark making that magnadoodles are good and I also have a couple of clip boards with paper and biros attached with string (slightly longer than the magnadoodle string as that's too short) but not long enough that they even think about drawing on the furniture or walls. Clip boards are generally in the role play areas. I also have a soft open storage box that I keep board books in, it fits in the bottom of my main book case but I can take it out to put in the lounge and easily pack books away to put storage box back in book case. I also have a small rattan box that is just the right width for ladybird type books for the older children.

Most of my structured mark making, like yours is up to the dining room table.

lollipop kid
07-10-2015, 04:28 PM
Thanks so much for sharing such detailed feedback, JCrakers!

It sounds like you do an amazing job, and couldn't really have done much more on the inspection day.

Well done, again. I hope you are really pleased with what the report says when you see it - I'm sure it will be lovely. :thumbsup:

All the best,

LK

Simona
07-10-2015, 04:39 PM
The wine helped Simona :D
I do offer the EYPP but don't have any children on role atm due to being full and not having any available spaces.

I gave the inspector all my folders when she arrived. As well as the usual (folder full of setting info, DBS checks, fireplan, etc, A personal dev folder with certificates in and parent feedback, accident/med book, daily register, 3 way communication books which go to and from nursery/preschool ) I gave all 5 LJ's to look through which had progress reports, 2yr checks in, my tracker folder, obs and next steps folder (obs very short, 1 sentence with links to EYO and next steps)
I also showed her a Transition to school report I did last year on the computer.

I suppose if you can tell the inspector how well you know the child and how you monitor their development, plan and move them forward without all the paperwork that's fantastic. I don't think I would be able to manage that in fear of having a mind block on the day. Well done to RickySmiths for doing that...very brave :D

Thank you for your time and replies....I could ask a hundred more questions but don't want you cursing me!
I am sure you will give feedback to many more CMs and it will be appreciated :thumbsup:

mumofone
07-10-2015, 06:10 PM
The wine helped Simona :D I do offer the EYPP but don't have any children on role atm due to being full and not having any available spaces. I gave the inspector all my folders when she arrived. As well as the usual (folder full of setting info, DBS checks, fireplan, etc, A personal dev folder with certificates in and parent feedback, accident/med book, daily register, 3 way communication books which go to and from nursery/preschool ) I gave all 5 LJ's to look through which had progress reports, 2yr checks in, my tracker folder, obs and next steps folder (obs very short, 1 sentence with links to EYO and next steps) I also showed her a Transition to school report I did last year on the computer. I suppose if you can tell the inspector how well you know the child and how you monitor their development, plan and move them forward without all the paperwork that's fantastic. I don't think I would be able to manage that in fear of having a mind block on the day. Well done to RickySmiths for doing that...very brave :D

Did you complete a SEF jcrackers? I hope it said you were outstanding? X

mumofone
07-10-2015, 06:14 PM
Congratulations to u. Sounds like such hard work. I've read lots of yr posts and know how dedicated you are. It's so hard to prove everything that we do within the space of one morning. I can't quite get my head around having all our resources out for the children to be able to just help themselves to anything as and when they choose,plus the risk of safety and even dare I suggest pen,chalk all over the walls while 'm busy changing a nappy with another little one. Would there be any point in planning for the day? I just can't imagine anything but chaos if my little ones had easy access to arts and crafts! That doesn't mean that I don't do messy play,arts and crafts. It just done at the most appropriate time,ie not just as we r about to go up to school or as I'm serving tea!

Totally agree poppy. We can have so much to juggle and if we are to keep the children safe which has to be number one priority it's just not practical

Dragonfly
08-10-2015, 12:40 PM
Well done you. And for saying ofsted was a good experience never heard that one before lol :laughing:

JCrakers
08-10-2015, 01:16 PM
Well done you. And for saying ofsted was a good experience never heard that one before lol :laughing:

Dragonfly... (whispers) it wasn't that great but I didn't want to scare anyone who's due an inspection. Just keep it to yourself :thumbsup:

rickysmiths
08-10-2015, 03:26 PM
JCrackers...after a good night sleep you are feeling a lot more positive about your inspection....or was it that glass of wine that did the trick?

Can I ask what emphasis the inspector put on 'paperwork' as you rightly said teaching is now the focus
Reading about Rickysmiths and the fact she went totally 'paperless' is so heart warming...what where you asked to evidence?

Did you have any children receiving EYPP?
one thing the inspector could have done is acknowledge you have a Level 3..not required for cms....then encourage you go forward with level 4.

Well done again!


I would say if you go paperless like I did, I have to say I decided the day before to take a calculated risk and I put away all the developmental records I do that is the Daily Diary/LJs just to see what the reaction would be. The Inspector wasn't worried at all but you do need to be prepared to talk and know the children on the day inside out.

The Inspector asked me in detail about the 3 children I had on the day. She wanted to know where they were and next steps. One was a relatively new starter (beginning of August) and she wanted to know the starting points and what had the parents told me, I do get the parents to fill in a simple All About Me form and I ask them to note down the child's normal daily routine. It was quite funny because she sat with me doing the joint Observation, we were playing with Play Dough, she then left us and went to her paperwork and computer and then she must have asked me 3 times how long the new child had been with me!! In the end she said she had asked because she couldn't believe how settled and comfortable the child was with me and with the other children and they with her. She said I was clearly very cool and calm in all I did. She wanted to see all the 2 year checks I had done.

She asked a lot of questions about child protection, sign, who I would report to, etc. Prevent was included and I was again asked if I suspected anything who would I report to, she was pleased to see I had completed the Police Channel Training. She looked at my Policies and she scoured through my Safeguarding Folder which had a list of all the important phone numbers in the front, all the house and car Insurance info, First Aid certs, Emergency Evacuation Practices, A copy of all my policies, DBS and CRB numbers for my family (I an too old to have one!) not the Certificates they belong to the individuals and you don't need those, just the numbers. ICO Certificate and a couple of sheet from our County about using the internet safely on which I had noted these have been shared with all parents. Then I had the first page of all the documents like Prevent, What to do if you are worried a child is being abused, SEND, etc etc with a note on each indicating the full document is stored on my computer. You don't need a printed copy of all these huge documents.

I did for the first time do a SEF and she looked at it and made comments and suggestions as to how I could work on it in the future. I did the new Sef that came out in Sept.

I had my CPD Folder and my Parents Feedback folder.

I also had photos on the wall above the children's pegs, which I always do and I change regularly so the children can show their parents where we have been and what we have been doing, she liked that. I had a photo album and a Digital Photo Frame on the side with all the recent photos on, again something I do often with the children because they love to see the photos and on the day the 2 older ones (both 2.5) completely un asked stood watching the photos giving a commentary on what they were doing and where they were I couldn't have coached them better if I had tried bless them and they roared with laughter each time a picture with both of them in came on. This was all happening right in front of the Inspector because the frame is on my side board next to the silver tray with the old crystal decanters on, 5 of them.

She had a good look around checked I had the required posters up. She never commented that I have no safety clips on any of the kitchen drawers or doors and I have a through Kitchen dining room that opens onto the playroom and the children have free access to it all, the door into the hall is also open now to allow the now potty trained 2.5 year olds to access the toilet independently, this means they can all access the whole of the downstairs but they never do wander they seem to know the boundaries and respect my home.

It was pouring with rain all morning and the children were engaged inside so we didn't go outside at all. I was asked if we used the outside all the time and I was honest and said no because we often go out to parks etc in which case there may not be enough time in the day to use the outside as well which she was happy with and could see the photographic evidence of. She did have a good look around the garden when the rain held off for five mins!

She was lovely and made all of us feel at ease all the time she was with us.

Oh and she saw I had a L3 and made no suggestion about doing L4

Simona
08-10-2015, 04:06 PM
I would say if you go paperless like I did, I have to say I decided the day before to take a calculated risk and I put away all the developmental records I do that is the Daily Diary/LJs just to see what the reaction would be. The Inspector wasn't worried at all but you do need to be prepared to talk and know the children on the day inside out.

The Inspector asked me in detail about the 3 children I had on the day. She wanted to know where they were and next steps. One was a relatively new starter (beginning of August) and she wanted to know the starting points and what had the parents told me, I do get the parents to fill in a simple All About Me form and I ask them to note down the child's normal daily routine. It was quite funny because she sat with me doing the joint Observation, we were playing with Play Dough, she then left us and went to her paperwork and computer and then she must have asked me 3 times how long the new child had been with me!! In the end she said she had asked because she couldn't believe how settled and comfortable the child was with me and with the other children and they with her. She said I was clearly very cool and calm in all I did. She wanted to see all the 2 year checks I had done.

She asked a lot of questions about child protection, sign, who I would report to, etc. Prevent was included and I was again asked if I suspected anything who would I report to, she was pleased to see I had completed the Police Channel Training. She looked at my Policies and she scoured through my Safeguarding Folder which had a list of all the important phone numbers in the front, all the house and car Insurance info, First Aid certs, Emergency Evacuation Practices, A copy of all my policies, DBS and CRB numbers for my family (I an too old to have one!) not the Certificates they belong to the individuals and you don't need those, just the numbers. ICO Certificate and a couple of sheet from our County about using the internet safely on which I had noted these have been shared with all parents. Then I had the first page of all the documents like Prevent, What to do if you are worried a child is being abused, SEND, etc etc with a note on each indicating the full document is stored on my computer. You don't need a printed copy of all these huge documents.

I did for the first time do a SEF and she looked at it and made comments and suggestions as to how I could work on it in the future. I did the new Sef that came out in Sept.

I had my CPD Folder and my Parents Feedback folder.

I also had photos on the wall above the children's pegs, which I always do and I change regularly so the children can show their parents where we have been and what we have been doing, she liked that. I had a photo album and a Digital Photo Frame on the side with all the recent photos on, again something I do often with the children because they love to see the photos and on the day the 2 older ones (both 2.5) completely un asked stood watching the photos giving a commentary on what they were doing and where they were I couldn't have coached them better if I had tried bless them and they roared with laughter each time a picture with both of them in came on. This was all happening right in front of the Inspector because the frame is on my side board next to the silver tray with the old crystal decanters on, 5 of them.

She had a good look around checked I had the required posters up. She never commented that I have no safety clips on any of the kitchen drawers or doors and I have a through Kitchen dining room that opens onto the playroom and the children have free access to it all, the door into the hall is also open now to allow the now potty trained 2.5 year olds to access the toilet independently, this means they can all access the whole of the downstairs but they never do wander they seem to know the boundaries and respect my home.

It was pouring with rain all morning and the children were engaged inside so we didn't go outside at all. I was asked if we used the outside all the time and I was honest and said no because we often go out to parks etc in which case there may not be enough time in the day to use the outside as well which she was happy with and could see the photographic evidence of. She did have a good look around the garden when the rain held off for five mins!

She was lovely and made all of us feel at ease all the time she was with us.

Oh and she saw I had a L3 and made no suggestion about doing L4

Wow RS...that is good feedback!
Thanks for your time !

JCrakers
08-10-2015, 04:49 PM
I would say if you go paperless like I did, I have to say I decided the day before to take a calculated risk and I put away all the developmental records I do that is the Daily Diary/LJs just to see what the reaction would be. The Inspector wasn't worried at all but you do need to be prepared to talk and know the children on the day inside out.

The Inspector asked me in detail about the 3 children I had on the day. She wanted to know where they were and next steps. One was a relatively new starter (beginning of August) and she wanted to know the starting points and what had the parents told me, I do get the parents to fill in a simple All About Me form and I ask them to note down the child's normal daily routine. It was quite funny because she sat with me doing the joint Observation, we were playing with Play Dough, she then left us and went to her paperwork and computer and then she must have asked me 3 times how long the new child had been with me!! In the end she said she had asked because she couldn't believe how settled and comfortable the child was with me and with the other children and they with her. She said I was clearly very cool and calm in all I did. She wanted to see all the 2 year checks I had done.

She asked a lot of questions about child protection, sign, who I would report to, etc. Prevent was included and I was again asked if I suspected anything who would I report to, she was pleased to see I had completed the Police Channel Training. She looked at my Policies and she scoured through my Safeguarding Folder which had a list of all the important phone numbers in the front, all the house and car Insurance info, First Aid certs, Emergency Evacuation Practices, A copy of all my policies, DBS and CRB numbers for my family (I an too old to have one!) not the Certificates they belong to the individuals and you don't need those, just the numbers. ICO Certificate and a couple of sheet from our County about using the internet safely on which I had noted these have been shared with all parents. Then I had the first page of all the documents like Prevent, What to do if you are worried a child is being abused, SEND, etc etc with a note on each indicating the full document is stored on my computer. You don't need a printed copy of all these huge documents.

I did for the first time do a SEF and she looked at it and made comments and suggestions as to how I could work on it in the future. I did the new Sef that came out in Sept.

I had my CPD Folder and my Parents Feedback folder.

I also had photos on the wall above the children's pegs, which I always do and I change regularly so the children can show their parents where we have been and what we have been doing, she liked that. I had a photo album and a Digital Photo Frame on the side with all the recent photos on, again something I do often with the children because they love to see the photos and on the day the 2 older ones (both 2.5) completely un asked stood watching the photos giving a commentary on what they were doing and where they were I couldn't have coached them better if I had tried bless them and they roared with laughter each time a picture with both of them in came on. This was all happening right in front of the Inspector because the frame is on my side board next to the silver tray with the old crystal decanters on, 5 of them.

She had a good look around checked I had the required posters up. She never commented that I have no safety clips on any of the kitchen drawers or doors and I have a through Kitchen dining room that opens onto the playroom and the children have free access to it all, the door into the hall is also open now to allow the now potty trained 2.5 year olds to access the toilet independently, this means they can all access the whole of the downstairs but they never do wander they seem to know the boundaries and respect my home.

It was pouring with rain all morning and the children were engaged inside so we didn't go outside at all. I was asked if we used the outside all the time and I was honest and said no because we often go out to parks etc in which case there may not be enough time in the day to use the outside as well which she was happy with and could see the photographic evidence of. She did have a good look around the garden when the rain held off for five mins!

She was lovely and made all of us feel at ease all the time she was with us.

Oh and she saw I had a L3 and made no suggestion about doing L4


Sounds really good Rickysmiths. The digital photo frame is a great idea, I did that too and the kids loved it.

Ripeberry
08-10-2015, 06:57 PM
Well done! :thumbsup::jump for joy::clapping:

cookiesncream
09-10-2015, 11:24 AM
Well done, it's such a relief when it's over, even if you keep going over it in your head and seeth with frustration at the "helpful" comments they are required to make. I have rebelled since my inspection and don't do any LJ's or written planning or observations anymore. I still think childminders inspections should be different from other settings as it's a completely different set up. I sure don't have colouring pens out where the kids can access them freely (I can imagine the state of my wallpaper!)

sarah707
09-10-2015, 07:24 PM
Brilliant feedback from recent inspections JCrackers and Rickysmiths thank you and well done to both of you!! :clapping:

JCrackers I was training on the CIf recently and was asked to talk about cohort tracking so I researched it before the training session. I found that while it can be useful if you have 30 children the same age it's pretty much useless for childminders with our low ratios and inspectors really shouldn't be asking us for it... how on earth can you get enough evidence if you only have 1 or 2 children of a similar age?

If it comes up on your report please do let Ofsted know how inappropriate it is xx

JCrakers
10-10-2015, 11:07 AM
Brilliant feedback from recent inspections JCrackers and Rickysmiths thank you and well done to both of you!! :clapping:

JCrackers I was training on the CIf recently and was asked to talk about cohort tracking so I researched it before the training session. I found that while it can be useful if you have 30 children the same age it's pretty much useless for childminders with our low ratios and inspectors really shouldn't be asking us for it... how on earth can you get enough evidence if you only have 1 or 2 children of a similar age?

If it comes up on your report please do let Ofsted know how inappropriate it is xx



I did tell her at the time that its not something I do because I only have a small group of children...she was too busy looking through her inspection handbook :rolleyes: I told her that the way I identify strengths and weaknesses in the setting is by tracking the children but not as a group.
She did say she was going to put it as a recommendation so we'll see what she's written.

I also tried to tell her that by putting some toys in a different room for a younger child wouldn't work here because I only have 2-3 little ones and splitting them up so older ones can use pens freely and an under 2 could do something in the lounge isn't what I do. Again she wasn't interested.

Maza
10-10-2015, 03:01 PM
If that's all she could fault you on then you must be doing a brilliant job. x

SYLVIA
11-10-2015, 05:16 PM
Sounds like a pretty in depth inspection to me. I managed to get Outstanding this time though she only gave me it in Learning and development but the final report said outstanding in all areas. I had numbers in the garden but she wanted to see shapes as well. I was also asked if I could include the children in making snacks and lunch. I was pleasantly surprise to get the grade but by the sounds of comments on this thread I'll have to work much harder to keep it. Well done on your grade, be proud of what you've achieved as you work hard to get it

mumofone
11-10-2015, 05:40 PM
Sounds like a pretty in depth inspection to me. I managed to get Outstanding this time though she only gave me it in Learning and development but the final report said outstanding in all areas. I had numbers in the garden but she wanted to see shapes as well. I was also asked if I could include the children in making snacks and lunch. I was pleasantly surprise to get the grade but by the sounds of comments on this thread I'll have to work much harder to keep it. Well done on your grade, be proud of what you've achieved as you work hard to get it

When you say you had numbers in the garden, how did you have these? Also what was she expecting in terms of shapes in the garden?

FloraDora
11-10-2015, 06:53 PM
Brilliant feedback from recent inspections JCrackers and Rickysmiths thank you and well done to both of you!! :clapping:

JCrackers I was training on the CIf recently and was asked to talk about cohort tracking so I researched it before the training session. I found that while it can be useful if you have 30 children the same age it's pretty much useless for childminders with our low ratios and inspectors really shouldn't be asking us for it... how on earth can you get enough evidence if you only have 1 or 2 children of a similar age?

If it comes up on your report please do let Ofsted know how inappropriate it is xx

I agree Sarah, it was very useful in school to track the class and analyse areas, curriculum, special needs, free school meals children etc...it gave you a good idea of strenghths and weaknesses not only of children but also teachers which would lead into CPD.
Having only given it a little thought you could show evidence of cohort/group tracking by ....analysing any blips in tracking ( which happened to me) that the children didn't appear to be moving forward as fast in maths as other areas....so I reviewed and decided that I was offering/ encouraging enough maths but just wasn't observing enough and noting enough to enable the LO's to move forward in my assessments, even though thety actually were. So I popped it in my SEF and tackled that inconsistancy in my observations next. So you could check that the whole cohort are moving forward at the same rate in all the areas, even if there is only 3.
In schools if you have a cohort of under 10 ( small schools) taking SATS they do not report the statistics as , like you said, it doesn't offer any patterns because the cohort is too small and each child is worth 10% so 3 special needs and you are immediately under threshold. At an inspection, inspectors usually do not comment if the cohort was 10 or under....but HT's usually prepare an analysis anyway, although not accurately useful...it still shows you do the analyses and are aware of cohort trends.
Thankyou jCrackers for your feedback....but if it is going to be in your development points ...we perhaps should all put our heads together and come up with some useful, not totally pointless reviews we can do...that will help you and probably the rest of us, and enable us to cover this area if questioned.......or we could learn statements that we have to remember to say if questioned on it at an inspection!

Simona
11-10-2015, 07:59 PM
I agree Sarah, it was very useful in school to track the class and analyse areas, curriculum, special needs, free school meals children etc...it gave you a good idea of strenghths and weaknesses not only of children but also teachers which would lead into CPD.
Having only given it a little thought you could show evidence of cohort/group tracking by ....analysing any blips in tracking ( which happened to me) that the children didn't appear to be moving forward as fast in maths as other areas....so I reviewed and decided that I was offering/ encouraging enough maths but just wasn't observing enough and noting enough to enable the LO's to move forward in my assessments, even though thety actually were. So I popped it in my SEF and tackled that inconsistancy in my observations next. So you could check that the whole cohort are moving forward at the same rate in all the areas, even if there is only 3.
In schools if you have a cohort of under 10 ( small schools) taking SATS they do not report the statistics as , like you said, it doesn't offer any patterns because the cohort is too small and each child is worth 10% so 3 special needs and you are immediately under threshold. At an inspection, inspectors usually do not comment if the cohort was 10 or under....but HT's usually prepare an analysis anyway, although not accurately useful...it still shows you do the analyses and are aware of cohort trends.
Thankyou jCrackers for your feedback....but if it is going to be in your development points ...we perhaps should all put our heads together and come up with some useful, not totally pointless reviews we can do...that will help you and probably the rest of us, and enable us to cover this area if questioned.......or we could learn statements that we have to remember to say if questioned on it at an inspection!

Interesting point Flora Dora ....cms may not have as many children to form a cohort though.
The very reason why CIF has to reflect all settings including cms and why it has to focus on EY as a phase separate to anything that happens once children enter formal schooling

The more inspections report we get the more we may understand that, at times, it is far from a CIF.

loocyloo
11-10-2015, 08:24 PM
I use 2simple and I can look at all observations done over a period I can see what strengths and weaknesses there are ... it made me realise that I hadn't done many obs on math myself.

I used to have a grid that listed all areas/sections etc and I used to tick off all areas for each child so could see if I had missed anything for a particular child and I guess, I could have used it to see an overall picture.

JCrakers
12-10-2015, 07:27 AM
I agree Sarah, it was very useful in school to track the class and analyse areas, curriculum, special needs, free school meals children etc...it gave you a good idea of strenghths and weaknesses not only of children but also teachers which would lead into CPD.
Having only given it a little thought you could show evidence of cohort/group tracking by ....analysing any blips in tracking ( which happened to me) that the children didn't appear to be moving forward as fast in maths as other areas....so I reviewed and decided that I was offering/ encouraging enough maths but just wasn't observing enough and noting enough to enable the LO's to move forward in my assessments, even though thety actually were. So I popped it in my SEF and tackled that inconsistancy in my observations next. So you could check that the whole cohort are moving forward at the same rate in all the areas, even if there is only 3.
In schools if you have a cohort of under 10 ( small schools) taking SATS they do not report the statistics as , like you said, it doesn't offer any patterns because the cohort is too small and each child is worth 10% so 3 special needs and you are immediately under threshold. At an inspection, inspectors usually do not comment if the cohort was 10 or under....but HT's usually prepare an analysis anyway, although not accurately useful...it still shows you do the analyses and are aware of cohort trends.
Thankyou jCrackers for your feedback....but if it is going to be in your development points ...we perhaps should all put our heads together and come up with some useful, not totally pointless reviews we can do...that will help you and probably the rest of us, and enable us to cover this area if questioned.......or we could learn statements that we have to remember to say if questioned on it at an inspection!

I think you've hit the nail on the head Flora Dora....you have been a teacher so you have all the knowledge to do those cohort trackers. You seem on the ball with a lot of things. :D Now Ofsted have moved towards teaching in a big way they are expecting a lot from us. We are childminders not teachers. Most of us don't have any experience of teaching. We can only teach through play and the way we know...I missed out the cohort tracking and that's because i've never done it before.

It makes me so angry as they are expecting so much from us....we don't get a break in a 10hr shift, we don't even have time to go to the toilet in peace. A lot of us are on less than minimum wage and they are expecting us to do a teaching job. The inspector expected my to turn lunch into a learning experience, what she hadn't though about is I hadn't had a cup of tea or a sit down from 7am when I got up to 12.30pm......

hectors house
12-10-2015, 08:40 AM
Just wanted to say a big Well done to Rickysmiths, didn't realise you had just had an inspection too - I also use a digital photo frame as the children like to use it to as a visual reminder of where they have been and games they play with their friends.

Sylvia - I have numbers and shapes in my garden, I just printed them from sparklebox and I used them to number the bikes, trikes etc - sometimes I chalk numbers on the patio for the children to park the vehicles in the correct parking space, to be quite honest they never take any notice of the fact that the numbers are written on a shape.

I use Tapestry on-line journals so am able to do cohort tracking but I don't really bother - at this age the difference in development between my dec & feb 2 year old and the july born 2 year old is vast but there again I would expect it to be with 7 or 5 months difference - I know they are all going to school in the same year but don't feel that a just 4 year old can be expected to be the same ability as a nearly 5 year old - it's a 1/4 of their lives difference.

Simona
12-10-2015, 08:45 AM
I think you've hit the nail on the head Flora Dora....you have been a teacher so you have all the knowledge to do those cohort trackers. You seem on the ball with a lot of things. :D Now Ofsted have moved towards teaching in a big way they are expecting a lot from us. We are childminders not teachers. Most of us don't have any experience of teaching. We can only teach through play and the way we know...I missed out the cohort tracking and that's because i've never done it before.

It makes me so angry as they are expecting so much from us....we don't get a break in a 10hr shift, we don't even have time to go to the toilet in peace. A lot of us are on less than minimum wage and they are expecting us to do a teaching job. The inspector expected my to turn lunch into a learning experience, what she hadn't though about is I hadn't had a cup of tea or a sit down from 7am when I got up to 12.30pm......

I do respect your opinion on this JCrackers but I truly cannot get my head round why cms do not see themselves as 'teachers' ?
why? where is the issue with that?
maybe not in the sense of those who teach in schools but we still educate, guide, show children many things which turns into knowledge....I see that as more or less the same?


If parents are the children's first educators...continually bashed by that man Wilshaw.... what is it we do differently that does not give us that role too?
Cms need to bring themselves up a bit in the sector to believe in their contribution and value....neither nurseries nor preschool have a problem with calling themselves teachers....I beg to differ in some cases I have witnessed!

Our advantage as CMs is that we never separate care from education...which is the problem often seen with schools...they mainly 'educate' not care although their remit is being widened all the time and even turned into policing where parents park their car or fine them.
This will soon come up with the schools opening for 'childcare' all year round....there is already much debate on this and Cms need to take part
Sadly few have taken any notice of the Childcare Measures and what it truly means ...few are starting to raise concerns ...at last!


The govt is investing ...or so they call it...lots of money in education/childcare and may need to do more.....so they want to see how, where and when their investment is working....that is the very reason they have commissioned the SEED projects....there are different ones not just the one for Cms that has just been published and that had a very clear aim not disguised by 4 Children's recommendations at the end of it!
I remember attending a conference in London with the very team who were in charge of the SEED research ...that is exactly what they are doing it for...to prove the DfE investment is paying off.

The reason we need to evidence EYPP is the same...value for money for the govt or not so if the 'gap' is not closing?...I would bet they will remove it from EY in future...£300 is our EYPP against schools who get £3000

I think the CIF is part of all that jazz.....the sector wanted a common framework and judgement now there are suggestions to keep EY separate....I think it is too late and not enough challenge was made prior to the consultation on CIF.
The group/cohort in the CIF is rather dubiously worded but it is there and CMs....often will not be able to participate in a cohort research and evidence it...but I bet those cms in an agency will do so!...just my thought on this.
Was there any training on CIF to get us ready? I don't think so.

I would never underestimate what Ofsted are doing...it goes hand in hand with the DfE...sadly Ofsted is not independent anymore

The teacher versus carer debate needs to be extended a lot more for cms...Flora Dora was a teacher therefore it will come easy for her to understand the cohort issue...how many cms will be offered the opportunity to train on understanding how to get figures from a cohort when many cms had difficulties with doing the Funding review.

Where are our representing associations who agreed with the CIF ...interesting times to say the least.

JCrakers
12-10-2015, 08:55 AM
I do respect your opinion on this JCrackers but I truly cannot get my head round why cms do not see themselves as 'teachers' ?
why? where is the issue with that?
maybe not in the sense of those who teach in schools but we still educate, guide, show children many things which turns into knowledge....I see that as more or less the same?


If parents are the children's first educators...continually bashed by that man Wilshaw.... what is it we do differently that does not give us that role too?
Cms need to bring themselves up a bit in the sector to believe in their contribution and value....neither nurseries nor preschool have a problem with calling themselves teachers....I beg to differ in some cases I have witnessed!

Our advantage as CMs is that we never separate care from education...which is the problem often seen with schools...they mainly 'educate' not care although their remit is being widened all the time and even turned into policing where parents park their car or fine them.
This will soon come up with the schools opening for 'childcare' all year round....there is already much debate on this and Cms need to take part
Sadly few have taken any notice of the Childcare Measures and what it truly means ...few are starting to raise concerns ...at last!


The govt is investing ...or so they call it...lots of money in education/childcare and may need to do more.....so they want to see how, where and when their investment is working....that is the very reason they have commissioned the SEED projects....there are different ones not just the one for Cms that has just been published and that had a very clear aim not disguised by 4 Children's recommendations at the end of it!
I remember attending a conference in London with the very team who were in charge of the SEED research ...that is exactly what they are doping it for...to prove the DfE investment is paying off.

The reason we need to evidence EYPP is the same...value fro money for the govt or not so if the 'gap' is not closing?...I would bet they will remove it from EY in future...£300 is our EYPP against schools who get £3000

I think the CIF is part of all that jazz.....the sector wanted a common framework and judgement now there are suggestions to keep EY separate....I think it is too late and not enough challenge was made prior to the consultation on CIF.
The group/cohort in the CIF is rather dubiously worded but it is there and CMs....often will not be able to participate in a cohort research and evidence it...but I bet those cms in an agency will do so!...just my thought on this.
Was there any training on CIF to get us ready? I don't think so.

I would never underestimate what Ofsted are doing...it goes hand in hand with the DfE...sadly Ofsted is not independent anymore

The teacher versus carer debate needs to be extended a lot more for cms...Flora Dora was a teacher therefore it will come easy for her to understand the cohort issue...how many cms will be offered the opportunity to train on understanding how to get figures from a cohort when many cms had difficulties with doing the Funding review.

Where are our representing associations who agreed with the CIF ...interesting times to say the least.

What I'm trying to say is Simona, I am a teacher but I'm not a qualified teacher. As a 'teacher' I don't get a lunch break or a dinner hour.....I don't get 'teachers pay' I get minimum wage and in order to get minimum wage I have to have 17 children on my books. Silly comments about how I could incorporate a learning experience into lunch would be great, but for me after being on the go for 5.5hrs already I want to tidy up the craft we have done and set lunch out,sit down with the children and just enjoy some time relaxing and eating...I don't want to turn it into an activity. With 2x3yr old and a 23m old who are well tracked and developing fantastically but she still wasn't happy. She was just asking too much of a single childminder who works on her own with no help or anything.
I do teach the children and always have done but for the inspector I wasn't doing enough.

Simona
12-10-2015, 09:11 AM
What I'm trying to say is Simona, I am a teacher but I'm not a qualified teacher. As a 'teacher' I don't get a lunch break or a dinner hour.....I don't get 'teachers pay' I get minimum wage and in order to get minimum wage I have to have 17 children on my books. Silly comments about how I could incorporate a learning experience into lunch would be great, but for me after being on the go for 5.5hrs already I want to tidy up the craft we have done and set lunch out,sit down with the children and just enjoy some time relaxing and eating...I don't want to turn it into an activity. With 2x3yr old and a 23m old who are well tracked and developing fantastically but she still wasn't happy. She was just asking too much of a single childminder who works on her own with no help or anything.
I did teach the children and always have done but for the inspector I wasn't doing enough.

I see... but do bear in mind that teachers in free schools do not require any qualifications!!! the irony of it all!
and the govt wants to open another 500 of them!
The hot potato at the moment is the number of teachers who left the profession last year...strangely enough the same happened to cms and both are due to govt reforms and constant meddling in education and childcare issues.

I agree we do not get a lunch break, ...nor a guaranteed income because we are self employed...I would take that anytime over being a teacher and all the stress they are under at the moment

The inspector in my view made a mistake in her request to see how you 'incorporate' learning in the lunch activity...she should have just observed it and not categorised it as an activity...it is an every day occurrence not an opportunity!

As you say your children show progress and that is well evidenced ...what is it she was not happy with?
sounds like inspectors' training has not really changed anything if they still come along with personal judgement...that was the problem before hence their re training...wasted money if that is what we get from some inspectors!

Mouse
12-10-2015, 09:21 AM
I think we're getting this cohort tracking wrong. It's not something we need to do so we can compare where the children are at, it' something we do to identify strengths or weaknesses of our provision.

If I did assessment summaries on my 7 EYs children, whose ages range from 12 months to 4 years, it would be pretty meaningless for me to use a school cohort tracking form to see how many children are at each development stage in each area of learning. I'd probably have one in each area and there would be nothing to compare.

But it is a useful exercise for me to compare the summaries and see if there are any areas where all the children are either exceeding their developmental expectations or not quite reaching them. If all the children show advanced development in gross physical development, I am probably doing something right, but if they all show they are not progressing as rapidly in fine motor development I need to look to see if I am providing sufficient activities in that area.

When I did that last year I realised that I wasn't providing enough mark making opportunities for the children to have regular access to. I didn't want pens left out all the time, so had to think up other ways of providing the opportunity. I got some blackboard-on-a-roll that I stuck on the side of a cupboard, I put magnetic writing boards in a basket along with mini aquadraw boards and I got some small clipboards that I tied pencils to. I then encouraged the children to use them during their play (eg. playing vets, I suggest they'd get a clipboard to 'write' notes, prescriptions etc) until it became second nature to them and they'd go and select one of the resources without me having to prompt them.

If I hadn't compared all the assessments I would have just come up with the children's individual next steps and may not have noticed a link between all of them. As it was, I was able to identify a weakness in my provision and show that I was considering the group of children as a whole.

Simona
12-10-2015, 09:28 AM
I think we're getting this cohort tracking wrong. It's not something we need to do so we can compare where the children are at, it' something we do to identify strengths or weaknesses of our provision.

If I did assessment summaries on my 7 EYs children, whose ages range from 12 months to 4 years, it would be pretty meaningless for me to use a school cohort tracking form to see how many children are at each development stage in each area of learning. I'd probably have one in each area and there would be nothing to compare.

But it is a useful exercise for me to compare the summaries and see if there are any areas where all the children are either exceeding their developmental expectations or not quite reaching them. If all the children show advanced development in gross physical development, I am probably doing something right, but if they all show they are not progressing as rapidly in fine motor development I need to look to see if I am providing sufficient activities in that area.

When I did that last year I realised that I wasn't providing enough mark making opportunities for the children to have regular access to. I didn't want pens left out all the time, so had to think up other ways of providing the opportunity. I got some blackboard-on-a-roll that I stuck on the side of a cupboard, I put magnetic writing boards in a basket along with mini aquadraw boards and I got some small clipboards that I tied pencils to. I then encouraged the children to use them during their play (eg. playing vets, I suggest they'd get a clipboard to 'write' notes, prescriptions etc) until it became second nature to them and they'd go and select one of the resources without me having to prompt them.

If I hadn't compared all the assessments I would have just come up with the children's individual next steps and may not have noticed a link between all of them. As it was, I was able to identify a weakness in my provision and show that I was considering the group of children as a whole.

Yes I think the 'cohort' terminology will throw many.
The CIF does say to look at 'groups' to identify how the individual learning/steps affects other children in our provision
From what you say it has come out with the expected result of looking at what we offer as opportunities for all not just the individual child.
That is the problem with having one common framework where the terminology does not always reflect our practice.

Simona
12-10-2015, 05:21 PM
If any cm, who has been inspected under the CIF and received a Good/Outstanding grade, is interested in writing up a small report of their experience the editor of PLA Under 5 Magazine would like to hear from you!!

Her email is Helen.bird@pre-school.org.uk
Good luck!

SYLVIA
12-10-2015, 07:00 PM
When you say you had numbers in the garden, how did you have these? Also what was she expecting in terms of shapes in the garden?
I have laminated number (A4 size) for different topics. The ones that were out were printed on animal print card. I have various shapes inside, mirror shapes stuck to toy boxes, shape sorters etc. I told her we can take them outside. Then she saw a triangle and rectangle shape on the quadro tent frame we had made and decided shapes were covered anyway. Sparklebox have number printouts that I use a lot. I think she wanted shapes printed like the numbers but it could easily be shapes used with sand or shapes drawn on the floor with chalk.

Simona
13-10-2015, 08:07 AM
When you say you had numbers in the garden, how did you have these? Also what was she expecting in terms of shapes in the garden?

Sorry to say this and hope you don't mind...just to clarify and not confuse anyone.

Ofsted are expected to observe and judge teaching and grade us ...judge how we translate the EYFS into practice...and we should expect inspectors to understand EYFS too!

Inspectors are not expected to see anything or pass personal judgements....it is what they do not see that cannot be ticked off against their pre-prepared list.

Many settings put numbers and letters in their garden or windmills and such like and that is their choice ...there is no requirement for that....outdoors is all the 7 areas combined.
Of course you can laminate numbers and letters but we can also offer opportunities for chalking, water painting and so on...the activities are limitless in a garden.

If an inspector had ever 'requested' to see anything I would have challenged!

mumofone
13-10-2015, 08:59 AM
Sorry to say this and hope you don't mind...just to clarify and not confuse anyone. Ofsted are expected to observe and judge teaching and grade us ...judge how we translate the EYFS into practice...and we should expect inspectors to understand EYFS too! Inspectors are not expected to see anything or pass personal judgements....it is what they do not see that cannot be ticked off against their pre-prepared list. Many settings put numbers and letters in their garden or windmills and such like and that is their choice ...there is no requirement for that....outdoors is all the 7 areas combined. Of course you can laminate numbers and letters but we can also offer opportunities for chalking, water painting and so on...the activities are limitless in a garden. If an inspector had ever 'requested' to see anything I would have challenged!

Do we know what their list of actual requirements are?

Simona
13-10-2015, 09:03 AM
Do we know what their list of actual requirements are?

Yes it is in the Ofsted guidance...how inspector use the evidence to grade us

JCrakers
15-10-2015, 03:50 PM
Got my report through, it took just under 7 working days so not bad :thumbsup:. It is very short compared to last time.. not sure if I like it shorter.

Anyway, it reads really well so I'm one happy bunny :jump for joy:

And I have a questionnaire to fill in to say how I felt about the inspection with Prospects which i'll look at later.

Simona
15-10-2015, 05:59 PM
Got my report through, it took just under 7 working days so not bad :thumbsup:. It is very short compared to last time.. not sure if I like it shorter.

Anyway, it reads really well so I'm one happy bunny :jump for joy:

And I have a questionnaire to fill in to say how I felt about the inspection with Prospects which i'll look at later.

Well done 'happy bunny' :clapping:

BallyH
15-10-2015, 06:11 PM
Good news. You can definatley relax now as the whole episode is over. Well done.

rickysmiths
16-10-2015, 08:51 PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head Flora Dora....you have been a teacher so you have all the knowledge to do those cohort trackers. You seem on the ball with a lot of things. :D Now Ofsted have moved towards teaching in a big way they are expecting a lot from us. We are childminders not teachers. Most of us don't have any experience of teaching. We can only teach through play and the way we know...I missed out the cohort tracking and that's because i've never done it before.

It makes me so angry as they are expecting so much from us....we don't get a break in a 10hr shift, we don't even have time to go to the toilet in peace. A lot of us are on less than minimum wage and they are expecting us to do a teaching job. The inspector expected my to turn lunch into a learning experience, what she hadn't though about is I hadn't had a cup of tea or a sit down from 7am when I got up to 12.30pm......

This is all very interesting as I didn't have a single written observation, I have never ever done trackers of any kind anyway so nothing whatever regarding the children's development in writing out for the inspection. The Inspector didn't turn a hair. Maybe if I had had my LJs out I might of got an outstanding but I wanted to prove a point. EYFS expects nothing developmental in writing except 2 year check and Profile. Maybe if we all spent more time just playing with out children and really getting to know them and using DM as intended, a reference document we would all have much more fun and enjoy our jobs and not feel burdened all the time by actually unnecessary paperwork. If more cms would do this then the Inspectors would have to Inspect us properly.

rickysmiths
16-10-2015, 09:06 PM
Sorry to say this and hope you don't mind...just to clarify and not confuse anyone.

Ofsted are expected to observe and judge teaching and grade us ...judge how we translate the EYFS into practice...and we should expect inspectors to understand EYFS too!

Inspectors are not expected to see anything or pass personal judgements....it is what they do not see that cannot be ticked off against their pre-prepared list.

Many settings put numbers and letters in their garden or windmills and such like and that is their choice ...there is no requirement for that....outdoors is all the 7 areas combined.
Of course you can laminate numbers and letters but we can also offer opportunities for chalking, water painting and so on...the activities are limitless in a garden.

If an inspector had ever 'requested' to see anything I would have challenged!


I so agree. I don't and won't ever have anything laminated in my garden. Why would I it is a garden and in itself a classroom. That is why I don't and never will have a mud kitchen. Kitchens are clean places to prepare food in!! I have an area of garden where they can dig in the mud if they want and make mud pies. However we dig in the garden and plant vegetables which we grow and pick and eat. We grow bags of potatoes free from the Potato council and I have in the last year planted apple and plum trees that they will watch grow and a growing Christmas Tree which we will put lights on and they will watch it grow. It is in the front garden so hopefully i years to come they will drive past and be able to tell their children, that is where my childminder lived and I remember her planting that Christmas Tree. That is how connections and memories are made not using plastic coated numbers in places they are not normally found.

Outside numbers are on houses when we go for a walk, on car number plates, on shops, on lamp posts, on post boxes on buses all occurring naturally and in context.

I like to sit in my garden in the evening and at the weekends and I don't and won't sit in a Nursery playground! All the toys are put away and someone new coming to dinner wouldn't have a clue that 4-6 children had been having a riot in the garden hours before! I provide a Home from Home environment and I have yet to go to a mindees home and find it emblazoned with plastic inside or out.

JCrakers
17-10-2015, 02:55 PM
I so agree. I don't and won't ever have anything laminated in my garden. Why would I it is a garden and in itself a classroom. That is why I don't and never will have a mud kitchen. Kitchens are clean places to prepare food in!! I have an area of garden where they can dig in the mud if they want and make mud pies. However we dig in the garden and plant vegetables which we grow and pick and eat. We grow bags of potatoes free from the Potato council and I have in the last year planted apple and plum trees that they will watch grow and a growing Christmas Tree which we will put lights on and they will watch it grow. It is in the front garden so hopefully i years to come they will drive past and be able to tell their children, that is where my childminder lived and I remember her planting that Christmas Tree. That is how connections and memories are made not using plastic coated numbers in places they are not normally found.

Outside numbers are on houses when we go for a walk, on car number plates, on shops, on lamp posts, on post boxes on buses all occurring naturally and in context.

I like to sit in my garden in the evening and at the weekends and I don't and won't sit in a Nursery playground! All the toys are put away and someone new coming to dinner wouldn't have a clue that 4-6 children had been having a riot in the garden hours before! I provide a Home from Home environment and I have yet to go to a mindees home and find it emblazoned with plastic inside or out.

This is exactly what I said to my inspector RickySmiths. She wanted to see numbers in the garden. I said we see numbers when we are out and about, on the school playground floor, on our way to toddler group, on our way to the park. I have numbers inside the house via matching games, till money, when we post letters, when we get the pens out and write and look at numbers, the computer toys I have and the books we read...the list is endless....why do I NEED them in the garden? I used to have some foam numbers about 6yrs ago but the went a bit mouldy in the shed and I threw them out....If only I'd had them on the day :rolleyes:

Also when she challenged about opening up my lounge for toys I said I wasn't going to do that. Maybe if she had a go at being a childminder then she might have more of an understanding of the job but she obviously hadn't :rolleyes:

On my report it states
It is not yet outstanding because:
There are few opportunities for children to spontaneously practice their early writing

So my inspection has made me look at buying more mark making items to go with my felt tips, chalks and chalk wall, easel, wax crayons, pencil crayons, sketch-a-doodle and paints (that weren't readily available due to space and other reasons) I will buy another sketch-a-doodle and a couple of clipboards and then I will be outstanding .... How silly :rolleyes:

Simona
17-10-2015, 03:42 PM
This is exactly what I said to my inspector RickySmiths. She wanted to see numbers in the garden. I said we see numbers when we are out and about, on the school playground floor, on our way to toddler group, on our way to the park. I have numbers inside the house via matching games, till money, when we post letters, when we get the pens out and write and look at numbers, the computer toys I have and the books we read...the list is endless....why do I NEED them in the garden? I used to have some foam numbers about 6yrs ago but the went a bit mouldy in the shed and I threw them out....If only I'd had them on the day :rolleyes:

Also when she challenged about opening up my lounge for toys I said I wasn't going to do that. Maybe if she had a go at being a childminder then she might have more of an understanding of the job but she obviously hadn't :rolleyes:

On my report it states
It is not yet outstanding because:
There are few opportunities for children to spontaneously practice their early writing

So my inspection has made me look at buying more mark making items to go with my felt tips, chalks and chalk wall, easel, wax crayons, pencil crayons, sketch-a-doodle and paints (that weren't readily available due to space and other reasons) I will buy another sketch-a-doodle and a couple of clipboards and then I will be outstanding .... How silly :rolleyes:

It's good that you have reflected and are thinking of buying more resources ...but...the inspector seemed not to understand what 'mark making' is all about....and possibly poor knowledge of Development Matters...she was maybe using EYO only?

Mark making is NOT just pencils and pens...it is drawing in the sand, using sticks or using fingers to trace shapes and numbers or any marks in shaving foam or cornflour, using brushes etc etc....I am sure you do all these activities!
Many maybe not available in schools but the CIF has to look at EY provision and its great opportunities and where mark making originates from?

Has she looked at DM under PD: Moving and Handling in Unique child and then across to EE....there are several examples of mark making (p22 and 23)
Also Literacy: writing...again UC and then across to EE ...so many opportunities not all using pencils.

Maybe when you fill in your feedback you could mention this obsession with letters in a garden!! :angry:

mumofone
17-10-2015, 04:53 PM
I so agree. I don't and won't ever have anything laminated in my garden. Why would I it is a garden and in itself a classroom. That is why I don't and never will have a mud kitchen. Kitchens are clean places to prepare food in!! I have an area of garden where they can dig in the mud if they want and make mud pies. However we dig in the garden and plant vegetables which we grow and pick and eat. We grow bags of potatoes free from the Potato council and I have in the last year planted apple and plum trees that they will watch grow and a growing Christmas Tree which we will put lights on and they will watch it grow. It is in the front garden so hopefully i years to come they will drive past and be able to tell their children, that is where my childminder lived and I remember her planting that Christmas Tree. That is how connections and memories are made not using plastic coated numbers in places they are not normally found. Outside numbers are on houses when we go for a walk, on car number plates, on shops, on lamp posts, on post boxes on buses all occurring naturally and in context. I like to sit in my garden in the evening and at the weekends and I don't and won't sit in a Nursery playground! All the toys are put away and someone new coming to dinner wouldn't have a clue that 4-6 children had been having a riot in the garden hours before! I provide a Home from Home environment and I have yet to go to a mindees home and find it emblazoned with plastic inside or out.

Sorry off topic but how dyou got about getting potatoes from the potato council? Do they give out to childminders?

Mouse
17-10-2015, 05:16 PM
Sorry off topic but how dyou got about getting potatoes from the potato council? Do they give out to childminders?

Grow Your Own Potatoes | Potato Council (http://gyop.potato.org.uk/)

Register here.

JCrakers
17-10-2015, 05:17 PM
Not done it for a couple of years

Is this the website?

About the grow your own potatoes project (http://gyop.potato.org.uk/pc50/About-the-project)

mumofone
17-10-2015, 05:54 PM
Grow Your Own Potatoes | Potato Council (http://gyop.potato.org.uk/) Register here.

Have you done it before yourself mouse?

moggy
17-10-2015, 06:23 PM
Have you done it before yourself mouse?

I do it every year. Grow Your Own Potatoes | Potato Council (http://gyop.potato.org.uk/)

mumofone
17-10-2015, 06:57 PM
I do it every year. Grow Your Own Potatoes | Potato Council (http://gyop.potato.org.uk/)

Thanks guys, I've just registered! :-) :-)

Simona
17-10-2015, 10:15 PM
We have gone from the 'ridiculous' to the 'sublime' in this thread....if you know what I mean....from laminated numbers and letters in our gardens to getting to grips with nature by growing potatoes!!....music to our ears!

mumofone
18-10-2015, 06:09 AM
We have gone from the 'ridiculous' to the 'sublime' in this thread....if you know what I mean....from laminated numbers and letters in our gardens to getting to grips with nature by growing potatoes!!....music to our ears!

Yep sorry guys I didn't mean to hijack the thread x

Simona
18-10-2015, 08:50 AM
Yep sorry guys I didn't mean to hijack the thread x

Not at all!!
I think you misunderstood...I personally am delighted to CMs people talk about planting potatoes in their garden ...not laminating alphabet and numbers!!
Look what you started RS.

Would that tick the box for our inspectors...will that be 'what they want to see'? :rolleyes:

Simona
18-10-2015, 09:13 AM
Jcrackers...I hope you can answer this question?

you said you have a feedback to fill in after your inspection...are you able to tell us if it goes to Ofsted itself ...or the outsourced inspection provider which I think you said is Prospects?

thank you

SYLVIA
18-10-2015, 06:12 PM
Can I just say the laminated numbers were in the garden as one child is finding it hard to recognise numbers and the hunt for numbers is s game that motivates him. I have many resources printed off to give me ideas. I totally agree that resources found out and about are of course great resources in them selves. I don't have these things in my garden or house on a permanent basis but use them if I feel they help a child's development

Simona
18-10-2015, 08:15 PM
Can I just say the laminated numbers were in the garden as one child is finding it hard to recognise numbers and the hunt for numbers is s game that motivates him. I have many resources printed off to give me ideas. I totally agree that resources found out and about are of course great resources in them selves. I don't have these things in my garden or house on a permanent basis but use them if I feel they help a child's development

And you are right in using them if it helps one child in his/her progress
The argument is about inspectors 'wanting to see these or expecting to ' when other methods work very well and should be noted by inspectors.

You will probably explain your methods to an inspector very well and that also goes for those not using laminated resources ....the teaching is how we use different methods and not prescribe to inspectors' expactations

rickysmiths
19-10-2015, 11:10 AM
This is exactly what I said to my inspector RickySmiths. She wanted to see numbers in the garden. I said we see numbers when we are out and about, on the school playground floor, on our way to toddler group, on our way to the park. I have numbers inside the house via matching games, till money, when we post letters, when we get the pens out and write and look at numbers, the computer toys I have and the books we read...the list is endless....why do I NEED them in the garden? I used to have some foam numbers about 6yrs ago but the went a bit mouldy in the shed and I threw them out....If only I'd had them on the day :rolleyes:

Also when she challenged about opening up my lounge for toys I said I wasn't going to do that. Maybe if she had a go at being a childminder then she might have more of an understanding of the job but she obviously hadn't :rolleyes:

On my report it states
It is not yet outstanding because:
There are few opportunities for children to spontaneously practice their early writing

So my inspection has made me look at buying more mark making items to go with my felt tips, chalks and chalk wall, easel, wax crayons, pencil crayons, sketch-a-doodle and paints (that weren't readily available due to space and other reasons) I will buy another sketch-a-doodle and a couple of clipboards and then I will be outstanding .... How silly :rolleyes:


The comment I got was that there wasn't enough number used and available and mostly during lunch!!! I have all the numbers on the wall it is lovely metal numbers and letters, I was counting with them when we were playing with the play dough, there are numbers on things on the snack bar including a huge wooden till and a wooden clock, wooden stacking toy with numbers 1-10 all on the window cil above where we were playing. I think they have to say something and she said I missed an opportunity to count during lunch!! I did comment aren't the children allowed a break?

I can't be bothered with comments like that it is stupid and my parents see the effects of what we do. I didn't want Outstanding anyway.

rickysmiths
19-10-2015, 11:13 AM
Jcrackers...I hope you can answer this question?

you said you have a feedback to fill in after your inspection...are you able to tell us if it goes to Ofsted itself ...or the outsourced inspection provider which I think you said is Prospects?

thank you

Mine was sent by Prospects and went back to Prospects

Simona
20-10-2015, 08:14 AM
Thanks for your reply RS....really useful.
I don't recall having to fill in a feedback in the past and I was inspected 5 times in my history.

Interesting....I wonder if it has anything to do with Ofsted including EY providers in the team that will scrutinise 'complaints against Ofsted' which Sean Harford was talking about yesterday?...food for thought!

Pixie dust
04-11-2015, 08:03 PM
Thanks for your reply RS....really useful.
I don't recall having to fill in a feedback in the past and I was inspected 5 times in my history.

Interesting....I wonder if it has anything to do with Ofsted including EY providers in the team that will scrutinise 'complaints against Ofsted' which Sean Harford was talking about yesterday?...food for thought!

I was given an inspection survey after my inspection yesterday which is to be completed after I have received my report. It asks about the inspection practice, judgements made, evidence and the impact the inspection had on my setting, what improvements I will make as a result of the inspection. This was from Prospects.

TinyTinker
05-11-2015, 10:29 AM
I hate that aspect of freely having mark making material around! if it was a nursery setting it would be fine - but for a childminder it is also their home - and free access to marker etc is just asking for ruined sofas, walls, carpets etc :( I too have everything there waiting and children can ask or point to it - but I always get them to sit at the table for arts/crafts/colouring etc! arg!

I will be happy if I get Good again - I fear getting downgraded more than being graded the same!

well done for getting through it.

btw how do you go about getting a chlid to help with lunch? if they are not allowed in my kitchen and it's not registered for their use? lol

JCrakers
05-11-2015, 12:15 PM
I hate that aspect of freely having mark making material around! if it was a nursery setting it would be fine - but for a childminder it is also their home - and free access to marker etc is just asking for ruined sofas, walls, carpets etc :( I too have everything there waiting and children can ask or point to it - but I always get them to sit at the table for arts/crafts/colouring etc! arg!

I will be happy if I get Good again - I fear getting downgraded more than being graded the same!

well done for getting through it.

btw how do you go about getting a chlid to help with lunch? if they are not allowed in my kitchen and it's not registered for their use? lol

Just by bringing the lunch to the table with butter, ham etc and children's knife. Getting them to spread the bread and add filling or getting them to help chop food for a cooked meal.

I do think this is a fab idea, my only argument was I am a lone worker (like we all are) after being up at 7am, getting my own two children off to school, starting work at 8am, taking 6 children to school and back with 3 little ones, changing nappies, helping with hand washing, doing playdoh, outdoor play, glueing leaves, helping to make a train track, involving myself in the role play kitchen, clearing up after craft, answering questions from the inspector, not sitting down since 7am, not having a drink she still wanted to see the lunch turned into a learning experience.

For me, its just not something I do due to the amount of children I have daily. I enjoy a peaceful lunch, chatting with the children, catching up on stories, relaxing, taking it easy and JUST ENJOYING TIME TOGETHER! SOmetimes its the only break I get in my 10hr day....that's why I was cross :D

If I had less children then it might be something to incorporate into my day but to me its all about balance, not trying to pack everything in. Ive already had to stop working Fridays because I was too tired so looking after myself is first priority. :rolleyes:

Mouse
05-11-2015, 12:23 PM
When I had my last inspection I had lunch pre-prepared and plated up in the fridge. I explained to the inspector that I'd got the lunch ready that morning as I didn't know how much time I'd get with having an inspection. She said it was a sensible thing to do and showed good organisational skills. She certainly didn't expect me to do it there and then so the children could help.

I had already got them to help prepare the morning snack, which the inspector had observed. They'd set the table (cloth, bowls and drinks), helped peel satsumas, cut some cheese and shared it all out. It was obvious that that was something they always did as they did it without prompting or asking.

It was much easier letting them help at snack time than it would have been to let them help with lunch, but it still showed the inspector that I was getting them to help with food prep. If you don't want to let them help with lunch, at least show how they help with snack time.

lollipop kid
05-11-2015, 01:07 PM
At one of my inspections (I got a Good), the Inspector was impressed that I spent as little time in the kitchen as possible. We were having Pasta and Pesto for lunch (a particular favourite), and she liked the fact that I had organised everything so that, once the pasta water had started to boil, I turned the gas off, put a lid on the pot, and just let the pasta cook away slowly without me having to stand over the pot. This allowed me lots of time to be with the children. (The pasta was still cooked and it was an easy matter just to drain it and stir the pesto into it to serve lunch.)

If I was doing this again at an inspection, I would still do the same thing meal, but first involve the children in picking some fresh basil leaves and washing these to go on top of their pasta. The only chopping they'd do would probably be tearing the basil leaves into smaller bits. (Spreading crackers at snack time, or some cream cheese on a bagel is always enjoyed at my setting, though, so I'd perhaps do this too at snack time.)

Hope it helps,

LK

Simona
05-11-2015, 01:30 PM
At one of my inspections (I got a Good), the Inspector was impressed that I spent as little time in the kitchen as possible. We were having Pasta and Pesto for lunch (a particular favourite), and she liked the fact that I had organised everything so that, once the pasta water had started to boil, I turned the gas off, put a lid on the pot, and just let the pasta cook away slowly without me having to stand over the pot. This allowed me lots of time to be with the children. (The pasta was still cooked and it was an easy matter just to drain it and stir the pesto into it to serve lunch.)

If I was doing this again at an inspection, I would still do the same thing meal, but first involve the children in picking some fresh basil leaves and washing these to go on top of their pasta. The only chopping they'd do would probably be tearing the basil leaves into smaller bits. (Spreading crackers at snack time, or some cream cheese on a bagel is always enjoyed at my setting, though, so I'd perhaps do this too at snack time.)

Hope it helps,

LK

Oh LK!!!...as an Italian I would have failed your inspector!!! :(

Pasta must be stirred at all times ...did she not ask why you were not doing that? showing the children why water was bubbling and all that jazz! :rolleyes:

How do inspectors judge schools in a cooking lessons if they don't observe the actual cooking itself in a kitchen? :p

Sorry...I am only joking and I felt like lightening this thread a bit!...so many variations on the theme!

BallyH
05-11-2015, 01:56 PM
The inspector will want to see us activitly prompting the child's independence. I'm planning to do snack on my inspection day as all my mindees provide their own packed lunches. Obviously, I do snack everyday, but this is where they will show everything they've learnt over their time with me. From counting chairs for the number of children attending, washing hands, washing table, choosing lunch, chopping, slicing, spreading, comparing shapes of crackers etc and then doing their own washing up afterwards and sweeped the floor. My mindees have learnt all these skills, but not very often practised in one session. I'm thinking, with any luck, if we do all this and start snack about 9.45am then they'll have dried their last plate about 12.30pm. Inspection over!

However, I keep thinking of a 'story' doing the rounds a couple of years back from an inspection. It went something like this: for snack the childminder choose an apple, pear and a banana. She took the 3 fruits to the sink. Washed the apple and pear then carried them back to the table where her mindees are all waiting. She lifted the banana and peeled it. Then lifted the pear to chop it and the inspector stopped her and told her to finsih what she was doung as she couldn't possibley give the children that fruit as she had contaminated the apple and pear because she she hadn't washed the banana skin.

Jelly Baby
07-11-2015, 06:15 PM
I hate that aspect of freely having mark making material around! if it was a nursery setting it would be fine - but for a childminder it is also their home - and free access to marker etc is just asking for ruined sofas, walls, carpets etc :( I too have everything there waiting and children can ask or point to it - but I always get them to sit at the table for arts/crafts/colouring etc! arg! I will be happy if I get Good again - I fear getting downgraded more than being graded the same! well done for getting through it. btw how do you go about getting a chlid to help with lunch? if they are not allowed in my kitchen and it's not registered for their use? lol

Totally agree with this!
Last time I left the 2 I look after (i. The same room while I did lunch) to freely colour one proceeded to scribble on the front of the fridge & the other all over her face?! ... I feel the arty things should be on view (as mine ask if I don't do planned art but not in reach as such or the house would be trashed?!