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loocyloo
30-08-2015, 10:38 AM
Been talking to childminding colleagues and someone asked what area to put 'British Values' in? I said I guessed they were mainly PSE and UW, but covered everything? any other thoughts? not sure why she wanted an area to put them in!

bunyip
30-08-2015, 12:11 PM
I should put it in the 'Where are they now?' file of failed Tory policy soundbites, alongside "Family values", "Victorian values", and "Who needs Heligoland anyway?" :p

Simona
31-08-2015, 10:08 AM
I should put it in the 'Where are they now?' file of failed Tory policy soundbites, alongside "Family values", "Victorian values", and "Who needs Heligoland anyway?" :p

I think quite a lot of people at the moment are struggling to understand about 'British Values' ...it is rather hard to follow what is happening in politics and put it under the BV umbrella...or any universal values and principles at all....shocking and upsetting.

Loocyloo...I think PSED and Understanding the World are the best 2 areas of learning....all in Development Matters
UW mentions communities, cultures, traditions, ways of life, difference between people and experiences.

My understanding is that we 'promote' British Values but I am rather puzzled when I read 'we must teach children to be proud to be British'...I think that is not the message.

I am also sure that is not the aim as many of those living in this country are not British BUT should be happy to be integrated in British society
I am not sure why people say they struggle to understand BV...they are really UNIVERSAL values and embrace a lot of things including rights..
Many of the values are basic principles of life which at this times are under question.

bunyip
31-08-2015, 12:06 PM
I think quite a lot of people at the moment are struggling to understand about 'British Values' ...it is rather hard to follow what is happening in politics and put it under the BV umbrella...or any universal values and principles at all....shocking and upsetting.

Loocyloo...I think PSED and Understanding the World are the best 2 areas of learning....all in Development Matters
UW mentions communities, cultures, traditions, ways of life, difference between people and experiences.

My understanding is that we 'promote' British Values but I am rather puzzled when I read 'we must teach children to be proud to be British'...I think that is not the message.

I am also sure that is not the aim as many of those living in this country are not British BUT should be happy to be integrated in British society
I am not sure why people say they struggle to understand BV...they are really UNIVERSAL values and embrace a lot of things including rights..
Many of the values are basic principles of life which at this times are under question.

For the most part, I agree.

I'd be far happier if we were encouraging children to think about and debate 'British values' rather than accept them without question. In fact, I have serious safeguarding concerns about the unqualified acceptance of BV: concerns which go way beyond the terrible vision of Jimmy Savile jogging in his union jack t-shirt.

There is no lack of examples of people abusing positions of power or exploiting their positions within the very British institutions we are meant to legitimise, in order to do harm to children, then have it covered up by The Law. The allegations surrounding Greville Janner and the Leicestershire police force's eagerness to "drop the case" is merely the latest. And before anyone suggests it, I refuse to accept the stock answer of "the systems have tightened up and it couldn't happen now" (which I think we can safely say is about as genuine as The Lance Armstrong Drug-Free Defence.)

"The rule of law" is another problem. The rate at which people die at the hands of the UK police; abuse of stop and search; excessive police surveillance including Doris Lessing being watched for her anti-racist views and sexual abuse (the Mark Kennedy case frinstance) perpetrated by undercover officers. Just the tip of an iceberg which makes me shiver every time EY practitioners and resources blithely lump in cheery 'Bobbies' into the list of "people who help us." :mad: Stephen Lawrence and Blair Peach might agree were they still with us.

So much of this is contradictory. Individuals use British institutions as cover for bypassing the law, then claim the protection of the very law system they flaunt for their own devices.

In fact, the small parts of the law which benefit individual citizens were not kindly handed down over the years by a beneficent ruling class of royalty and smiling politicians. Virtually all the rights worth having were won by agitation, protest, riot, and bloodshed.

It is dangerous for a society to have its values based on its law. It should be other way round: laws need to be based on our values.

According to the BV idea, anything is justified if it falls under 'the rule of law'. So practitioners of apartheid were fine: they were following the law, which explains why the UK regime collaborated with the racist RSA regime for decades. The logic would also apply to 1930's Germany.

Simona
01-09-2015, 07:44 AM
I would say that to teach and promote BV 'thinking and debating' is exactly what I would do...is there any other way?...or should we be prescribed a way to teach BV?

I certainly will not be putting up any poster to impress outsourced Tribal/Prospects inspectors on how children should learn to be respectful and acquire basic value.

I would ...though...send strong messages to our PM, Home Secretary and Defence Minister how 'not to address' certain issues by using offensive terminology

JCrakers
01-09-2015, 11:08 AM
I'm understanding that teaching good manners, politeness, being tidy, respecting others beliefs and religions are all part of being British.

Truthfully, I haven't looked into this properly but if asked by Ofsted what I do to promote these British values I shall just answer with the above.

mumofone
01-09-2015, 11:53 AM
I'm understanding that teaching good manners, politeness, being tidy, respecting others beliefs and religions are all part of being British. Truthfully, I haven't looked into this properly but if asked by Ofsted what I do to promote these British values I shall just answer with the above.

Yeh I'm doing similar.....

clareelizabeth1
01-09-2015, 11:57 AM
I had my inspection a week or so ago and we spoke about it. The inspector agreed with my view of it which is. We do not need to buy any thing. We don't need big bens or buses or picture of British people that all comes under diversity.

British values are things like manners and being respectful which I don't teach children but instead I show them by respecting them and being polite and a good role model.

bunyip
01-09-2015, 03:42 PM
The whole thing sounds even more pointless now. There is no suggestion that people who are carrying out radicalisation and grooming for ISL are anything but polite and respectful towards people.

It's a basic principle of Middle Eastern culture from tribal Pashtun mujahideen to Northern Taliban that they must always offer sanctuary and hospitality even to sworn enemies in their own homes.

I take it I'm therefore supposed to treat it as a safeguarding concern if any of my little proto-terrorist tinies don't say "please" and "thank you" or refuse to share and play nicely? :huh:

Here are the descriptions of the London July 2005 bombers:-

Germaine Lindsay, 19, Russell Square bomber: once disciplined at school for handing out pro-Al qaeda literature; otherwise, no cause for concern.

Hasib Mir Hussain, 18, Tavistock Square bomber
Known as a quiet student with few friends whose life attracted little outside attention. Lived with his parents who were "surprised and devastated" and had no idea of his radical ideas.

Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Aldgate bomber
Neighbours described the sports science graduate as a "nice lad" who could "get on with anyone". Friends said he was religious, but did not show any interest in politics.

Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, Edgware Road bomber
A married father-of-one and teaching assistant.
Friends from his teenage years recall a highly Westernised young man who insisted on being called "Sid".

So, somebody tell me how these would've been identified as 'at risk' or as a 'threat' under Prevent. I'm guessing Ofsted were OK with the last character working as a teaching assistant.

JCrakers
02-09-2015, 07:21 AM
Mental health is under rated in this country. When they start taking it more seriously then things might change.

People, especially young men are embarrassed to let people know they need help...look at the pilot who had been suffering and crashed the plane into the mountain.

Simona
02-09-2015, 07:28 AM
Thank you for the information Bunyip but you are now diverting
What is pointless?

The fact that 'those values' have been in EYFS since 2008 and even before that?...some will remember the previous framework to EYFS.

Now they are called BV to suit the govt political agenda and failure on many counts.

BV have been on the EY curriculum for a while disguised in PSED and UW ...anyone can check EYFS and there they are
I agree that we do not need any poster on the wall...just common sense

JCrackers...good point about Mental Health...that is a real threat and everyone working with children should be trained on the issue.

bunyip
02-09-2015, 05:08 PM
What's pointless is basing an anti-terrorism policy on the idea that childcarers/teachers will spot children who are being radicalised if they don't share and aren't polite to one another.

The UK regime's promotion of so-called 'British values' under the cloak of 'safeguarding' from radicalisation is really about making sure we all learn from a very early age to 'know our place' and not ask questions. It's about legitimising institutions that we ought to be challenging.

It also allows people to use those institutions as a cover for the abuse of power. In fact, we should be safeguarding children from those abuses, instead of perpetuating them.

Simona
02-09-2015, 06:16 PM
Bunyip....I think a lot of people would agree with you there.

Simona
02-09-2015, 08:16 PM
Bunyip....I think a lot of people would agree with you there.