Organise, Agitate and Educate...a war cry..

[Simona]

Just published
Blog from June O'Sullivan on the 30 hours of childcare and impending conference 'Big childcare Conversation'...anyone going?

https://www.leyf.org.uk/blog/organise-agitate-and-educate-must-be-our-war-cry-if-we-are-to-get-childcare-right/

[mumofone]

Re the 30 hours there's sonething I don't get which I hope someone will explain for me? My local pre school is open from 9am-12pm each day so 3 hours a day, 15 hours a week. So this is fine for those getting 15 hours free care currently. But If this doubles to 30 hours does the pre school have to stay open for 6 hours a day (twice as long) each day instead?

[Simona]

Re the 30 hours there's sonething I don't get which I hope someone will explain for me? My local pre school is open from 9am-12pm each day so 3 hours a day, 15 hours a week. So this is fine for those getting 15 hours free care currently. But If this doubles to 30 hours does the pre school have to stay open for 6 hours a day (twice as long) each day instead?

Good question Mumofone!
Could this be related to the DfE invitation to be an 'implementer' and come up with innovative and flexible solutions to offer the 30 hours?
For state schools and some preschools the only way to do it is to share the 30 hours with ....say CMs

There are so many unanswered questions and I hope these can be debated at BBC....my list is getting longer !

[mumofone]

I personally don't get how most working people can use a nursery anyway in that the ones around me aren't open nearly late enough for any working professional. They shut at say 5pm latest but that's just not realistic as a working mum (in my experience anyway) to be even close to that time to pick up your child. You could be walking into a meeting quite easily at 5pm and that's before you even have to tackle rush hour traffic. I was astonished when I looked at the hours on offer. Even CMs I struggled to find anyone working past 5.30. Anyway, sorry, I digress....

[moggy]

Re the 30 hours there's sonething I don't get which I hope someone will explain for me? My local pre school is open from 9am-12pm each day so 3 hours a day, 15 hours a week. So this is fine for those getting 15 hours free care currently. But If this doubles to 30 hours does the pre school have to stay open for 6 hours a day (twice as long) each day instead?

'have to' stay open- no one 'has to' do any of this 'free entitlement' things, it is not compulsory to offer it at all...
But, to keep up with the competition and demand from parents, they will have to make their choice- change their opening hours, find another way to offer the hours, or stay as they are and risk parents taking their 30-hours elsewhere. This is a sad possible-side-effect of this whole scheme- the small, often volunteer-run, local village hall, 9am-12pm type of playgroup may not survive.

And likewise- the setting which is open 30 hours a week but fits its children in at 2 sessions a day- 15 hours a week over mornings, 15 hours a week over afternoons. Then all those children are now allowed 30 hours each! The setting is full, their building can't take anymore children... what do they do? Give notice to half the children so the other half can have their 30 hours?

These are the things that we hope will show up when the trials happen, but I fear these type of settings will not take part in the trials because it can NOT work for them. The ones taking part in the trial are probably going to be the ones which can manage the 30 hours- big nursery chains maybe? Then the Gov says it is all working fine and rolls out the scheme...

[TinyTinker]

I wondered the same about my pre-school - the reason they do short days is because the children are so young - if they go straight in doing 30 hours a week it will be like full time school at 3! :(

[mumofone]

I wondered the same about my pre-school - the reason they do short days is because the children are so young - if they go straight in doing 30 hours a week it will be like full time school at 3! :(

Isn't this what some one (can't remember their name!) in governments pushing for...all two year olds in school full time?! Honestly, what planet?!!

[Simona]

Are you thinking of Wilshaw Munofone?
He does want children in school at 2 ...but...the 30 hours is not for 2 year olds....shame eh?

I just wish Cameron had engaged his grey cells before rushing to announce double childcare to get votes! :mad:

I wonder if anyone has worked this out:
if a child does 15 hours in a school nursery...then is off to a cm...will the other 15 hours be 'education' or 'childcare'?
Will the schools accept they are being funded for Childcare?

Will all these children who may have to share hours between settings have 2 LJs?...2 sets of planning?
and how shall we co-operate if this happens?

[bunyip]

Our village preschool is in a very similar position. It uses hired premises which are available for 15 hours pw only.

There was a crisis a while ago when it was facing the possibility of having this cut to 12 hours pw (issues over shared use of the kitchen with another organisation.) The LA told the preschool in no uncertain terms that they must offer the full 15 hours or they could be removed from the list of funded providers.

The same could well happen under the 30 hour scheme, unless the government is very meticulous about how it writes and, moreover, enforces the rules with regard to LAs.

No offence, Simona, but I have a feeling you're going to say something along the lines of "they can't impose conditions." That's all very well as a nice, tidy theoretical argument. BUT real businesses will be well and truly out of business, closed, shut down and gone, by the time they've made those arguments. If the funding is withdrawn, even on 'false' grounds, a business cannot keep going with no clients and no income, while it argues the rights and wrongs of the matter. :(

[Simona]

Our village preschool is in a very similar position. It uses hired premises which are available for 15 hours pw only.

There was a crisis a while ago when it was facing the possibility of having this cut to 12 hours pw (issues over shared use of the kitchen with another organisation.) The LA told the preschool in no uncertain terms that they must offer the full 15 hours or they could be removed from the list of funded providers.

The same could well happen under the 30 hour scheme, unless the government is very meticulous about how it writes and, moreover, enforces the rules with regard to LAs.

No offence, Simona, but I have a feeling you're going to say something along the lines of "they can't impose conditions." That's all very well as a nice, tidy theoretical argument. BUT real businesses will be well and truly out of business, closed, shut down and gone, by the time they've made those arguments. If the funding is withdrawn, even on 'false' grounds, a business cannot keep going with no clients and no income, while it argues the rights and wrongs of the matter. :(

I am afraid that is your assumption Bunyio...no offence taken at all..and fair enough if that is what you believe my thoughts are on this.
Who would impose conditions ? The LAs or DfE?...or God forbid Ofsted itself?
this would make no difference to me personally but I do care about what is happening to our sector, to CMs in particular and more importantly to children
I do not pussyfoot around the powers that be as I have nothing to lose....whether it is LAs, Ofsted or anyone else.

I have followed this issue from the start and will keep myself further informed by attending BIg Childcare Conversation and talking to other providers to hear what their opinion is on this as I have already done ...what are their worries, solutions and way forward.
Tell me what are all the representing associations actually saying on this issue ?


As you have said before not everyone has the time or inclination to follow every issue....or read every bit of information
I make it my time as much as I can.

All I do here is share the information in this forum....what members do with it is up to them
Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

[FussyElmo]

I wondered the same about my pre-school - the reason they do short days is because the children are so young - if they go straight in doing 30 hours a week it will be like full time school at 3! :(

You already do in my la. as long as you are 3 before the 31st August you can start in a school nursery when the new term starts.

The children do a few weeks of settling in and then go full time like the rest of the school :thumbsup: