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emma_lubylu
27-07-2015, 09:12 AM
Hello,
I have recently had one of my parents ask me about a funded place for the 2 year old, and was wanting some advice on the subject.

Question is, Do you offer funded places?

I'm not sure if every LA are the same, but mine fund termly, 50% and the beginning of the term and 50% at the end of the term, which means I will go 6/7 weeks not payment!!!!!

It's difficult because I don't want to let my parents and the child down, but I don't think i will be able to financially do it. They did explain it is just to cover education and I would have to charge extra for meals, but I'm not sure people in other professions would be happy to go this long with no wage, so why should it be different for us?

Any input will be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance

hectors house
27-07-2015, 03:24 PM
In our area the rate for 2 year olds is 85p an hour more than my normal rate so I do offer the funding but our LA pays 90% in advance and only 10% in arrears so it's ok for me. Is the child already with you or is it a new parent wanting to start with you purely for the funded hours?

bunyip
27-07-2015, 05:11 PM
Since this is virtually a duplicate thread (and heaven knows why that is necessary), I make no apology for reiterating my previous point.

Mention this to any tradesperson or company accounts manager and they'd be hard-pushed to know whether to laugh or cry. Being paid late by half a term (ie. about 6 weeks) does not amount to undue hardship in business. In business terms, that's barely the blink of an eye. Most self-employed people would love to know their outstanding invoices would be settled so quickly. I regard the 50% advance at the start of term as something as a luxury. Compared with those parents who never get round to paying at all, many CMs see the guarantee of the LA paying at the end of term as a definite plus point.


but I'm not sure people in other professions would be happy to go this long with no wage, so why should it be different for us?

For the most part, "people in other professions" would only normally expect to be paid a regular salary if they were employees. CMs are self-employed and have to take the rough with the smooth.

"...different for us..."? Certainly not so different from the vast majority of self-employed people and small businesses: in act our cash-flow issues are far less problematic than most. Fact: two-thirds of UK businesses are permanently in the position of waiting over three months for their invoices to be settled, amounting to a total £55 billion of overdue payments. The average UK business spends a full two weeks of staff time purely on chasing late payments.

This probably sounds harsh in the unreal and cuddly world of childcare, but it's about time CMs got real about the business side of our chosen............er.............business. We all made a free choice to become self-employed. If you want a reliable "wage" you need to find an employer. There are good and bad things that come with self-employment, and we cannot pretend we are also entitled to all the rights of benefits of being an employee.

emma_lubylu
27-07-2015, 07:29 PM
Hi Hectors house,
No it is a child already with me, that's why I'm finding it difficult as I don't want to let them down. They have just dropped hours and will now drop them again for just the funded hours so it will financially impact me. Just wanted to know how others find the payment process from the LA has an impact :)

bunyip, as you have stated, yes this is a duplicate thread. This was my original thread, but as I very rarely us this forum, my account was restricted and this did not post. After an hour or so my account was reinstated so I could use it. This post was not in my recent actions, therefor, I thought it hadn't posted due to the restriction, so I posted a new thread.
I have seen your comment on my other thread and will reply to your points as well as everyone else as I was waited for more opinions from others..............anyway......................

In regards to this thread, as you already commented on the other thread and put your view across I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to reply to this one as well, but I will respond to your comment regardless.

I know Childminding is a self employed business, and I know how self employed businesses work, the majority of my family are self employed, and I have gone weeks and months without payment when I had no placements in, it's to be expected.

My point in this is, I would not allow a parent to pay me 6/7 weeks, so I wouldn't expect it from the LA. I have few children in as I have my own LO so places are restricted and small financially hiccups like this do impact me. I am trying to work out how other people find having funded places, and find your post not helpful at all.

In regards to your comment 'the cuddle world of childcare'......pahhhh, this business is anything but that, just because I expect to get paid doesn't mean I think the job is a doddle. You call it what you will, I call it a wage, but at the end of the day, we both expect to be paid for the work we do, do we not?

Thank you both for the comments :)

Simona
27-07-2015, 09:01 PM
Interesting discussion and, once again, we see that LAs apply their own rules when funding the 15 hours of education.
Also annoying to see that they are still imposing conditions on CMs in order to draw the funding....and getting away with murder!

One fact though we need to remember....LAs are funded in advance by the DfE...so not sure why they choose to pay us in instalments.
I agree we have to 'accept' that or refuse to draw funding but why should they sit on money that has been allocated a long time ago?

I wonder how CMs will cope when the 15 hours become 30?....not that easy when you have to pay bills or your mortgage is due.
I feel this is an issue to raise at the Big Childcare Conversation as this has been set up to deal particularly with future policies. And the 30 hours.
I hope to see many CMs come along to the 1st conference and voice their opinions!

emma_lubylu
28-07-2015, 05:46 AM
Interesting discussion and, once again, we see that LAs apply their own rules when funding the 15 hours of education.
Also annoying to see that they are still imposing conditions on CMs in order to draw the funding....and getting away with murder!

One fact though we need to remember....LAs are funded in advance by the DfE...so not sure why they choose to pay us in instalments.
I agree we have to 'accept' that or refuse to draw funding but why should they sit on money that has been allocated a long time ago?

I wonder how CMs will cope when the 15 hours become 30?....not that easy when you have to pay bills or your mortgage is due.
I feel this is an issue to raise at the Big Childcare Conversation as this has been set up to deal particularly with future policies. And the 30 hours.
I hope to see many CMs come along to the 1st conference and voice their opinions!

Simona, thank you for your comments.
I did not know LA are funded already, which makes it even more frustrating. I don't see how one authority can break it down 90/10 , yet others 50/50! It's inconsistent and unfair

Simona
28-07-2015, 08:11 AM
Simona, thank you for your comments.
I did not know LA are funded already, which makes it even more frustrating. I don't see how one authority can break it down 90/10 , yet others 50/50! It's inconsistent and unfair

It is more than that!
One of the reasons is CMs accept what LAs do without challenging and have accepted that 152 LAs can be as diverse as they want to be, they can impose conditions and some cms will jump through hoops to comply....sorry but to me that is rubbish...my personal opinion !

Many cms feel they are doing LAs a favour by drawing funding but it is the other way round...LAs would be lost without cms ....only time will tell.
We do not work for them but in 'partnership with them'.
We accept pitiful funding and subsidise it...even when the LAs were awash with money a few years ago we were taken for a ride by them

The example below is the very valid....one cm gets 85 p more than her fees...some Cms get to make ££ for every hour of funding ...so actually making a profit on the funding ...while in other areas like mine our subsidy is over 50%.

There is a way LAs could make one single payment ...if they tried...but that would be a miracle if it happened.
I bet they are frustrated the EYPP is a universal benefit at 53p and they cannot touch it or alter it.

Sorry about my rant...funding is one of my pet hates...and be reassured DfE is aware of late payments but they are too spineless to act.

The consultation on Review of Childcare funding is still open...it is worth putting in there the 'late payment' issue by LAs who incidentally are allowed to input in it too.


Good luck!

bunyip
28-07-2015, 10:18 AM
My big gripe about funded childcare is how the LAs get away with underpaying CMs whilst they keep back a portion of the money they receive from government funds. IIUC the LA gets around £5.50ph but most pass on a mere £4 or less to the setting. They somehow claim this amount (nearly 30% :eek: .....go figure...........:eek: ) covers the "admin costs of running the scheme." Odd that: CMs are not allowed to make any admin charge for our costs of delivering the childcare. :mad: By my estimate, it costs me at least an additional £50 per child in my time alone.

What bugs me is that LAs generally have to put out to tender the vast bulk of services they wish to 'buy in' from private sector providers. If they had to do that with childcare, they'd probably have to pay a much higher rate, due to the shortfall in supply in most locations.

Many settings suffer problems relating to the fact that people rarely respect a service they get for free. This can be very damaging. I know some preschool settings that are crippled by parents who leave without notice or have lots of undue absences.

I'd personally like to see an element by which the parents have to pay something at least and not get it all for free. That increases their commitment.

That's what I'd like, but we tend to be stuck with what we've got (and everyone has the right to believe that may be far better than if bunyip or any other CM ruled the world. ;) Probably right, too. ) Ultimately we all have to decide to take or leave the funding. Yes, we can all go off campaigning for change, but few of us have the time and energy. In the real world, we can accept and make the best of things and then we have less stress over it. Or you can bust your balls trying to change every little thing you don't like in the world. People who do the latter often suffer a lot of needless stress, anxiety and historically tend to find themselves retreating from Moscow. :p

Simona
28-07-2015, 10:36 AM
LAs are allowed to cream off because the funding is not ring fenced anymore...so it is diverted in other areas....see Sam Gyimah and even Clegg's own statements in the recent past.

It is not a question of campaigning and getting stressed ...it is a questions of trying to change a little of what is wrong.

Had people not brought to Truss' attention that CMs were excluded from drawing funding unless they belonged to a Network...we would not have this situation now and CMs would be excluded from this opportunity.

Yes we can take or leave it ...or we can try to make a difficult situation better...that is up to CMs to decide but if we never challenge we never get anywhere

I think that Ofsted Big Conversation is the prime example of what collective campaigning can achieve
The funding issue is now under review because providers raised concerns and were vocal
CMs ratios has also been addressed because some CMs never took no for an answer.

In the end we are small businesses and not charities and if we could belong to a union they would do the bargaining for us!

Simona
28-07-2015, 10:56 AM
Forgot to mention all the CMs and the rest of the sector who also campaigned against agencies, met with Lords and ministers, wrote hundreds of letters to DfE and Ofsted, MPs and gathered support against the idea of agencies.

Had we not done that agencies may have taken a different turn!

bunyip
28-07-2015, 12:27 PM
I agree with most of what you're saying there Simona.

But we didn't actually stop agencies becoming a fact. Tbh, the fact an agency's fees will represent an added expense on top of childcare fees is more likely to limit their impact more than any campaign. Truss's schemes were self-defeating, always based on the impossible premise that you can add to your costs and still charge less. All politicians claim they can increase quality and reduce prices............... yeah, right.

We've yet to see if the consultation on funding is anything more than a huge white elephant. You're certainly not naive when it comes to knowing how politicians work: they "listen" then do what they want; they say one thing then do the opposite.

There have also been remarkable failures in campaigning. eg. Where has our LA training support gone? Wasted effort over that one. And the massive own-goal to try to limit doctors' fees for medical declaration which resulted in most practice managers charging more.

I'm not saying we should just roll over, but we could do with pacey et al being a lot more effective than they have proved to be to date. That said, pacey are always going to be largely ineffective unless and until the members are prepared to pay a reasonable membership fee................which they won't.

Most of us have lives outside of our jobs and don't have time to deal with every little issue. And like I said, most businesses would love to wait a mere 6 weeks to have their invoices settled.

Simona
28-07-2015, 04:09 PM
In turn I agree with a lot you said Bunyip

Agencies...we have been successful in keeping CMs informed and why remaining 'independent' would be the alternative.
Mind you independent of what when we have Wilshaw breathing down our necks all the time ....but...we did want that registration and inspection
The latest statistics should have shut him up...CMs did rise to the challenge despite poor support

LAS....many had poor support for CMs for a very long time.....that I can recall my LA gave up on CMs a long time ago unless we were in their network....now they are busy with their agency ICMs are left again....but...I'd rather look after myself the listen to their constant demads on funding and this and that.

Associations....yes we should pay a bit more but also volunteer if we can and raise concerns were practical...Ihave done so and continue to volunteer for what it is worth....it does not take a lot of my time but I feel it can be useful

We all have a life outside of minding but some have a little time to spare...especially if ...like me ....worked part time as a cm....childcare is a tiny part of my interests but do my best to keep up

Politicians are that rare breed...never trust them...rarely one comes along who does what it says on the tin...you have probably gathered I am a bit political!

I would suggest LAs could rethink how they pay us.....one payment would do if they got their brains together and showed appreciation of our services which in turn ticks their targets against DfE ever increasing stranglehold
Thank you for your comments and do tell Pacey what you think....I tell my association what my worries are and, sometimes, it pays off.

Jelly Baby
17-08-2015, 08:46 AM
Just thought id add to this thread as totally confused what I get and when. Every payment I've had so far has either been late, early or nothing like the amount I expected. I am just about to email the lady in charge and get her to send me dates of payment so least I can budget a bit better as finding it difficult to know what's what. It is hard though if you need the work or have an existing child.