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View Full Version : Childcare measures: Important read for CMs!



Simona
23-07-2015, 08:57 PM
This latest has been announced by Sam Gyimah...it is not new but will become effective next year
The measures allow cms to operate from premises other than their home and take effect from January 2016

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/childcare-measures-small-business-enterprise-employment-act

loocyloo
23-07-2015, 09:13 PM
Before I even read it I just knew it would be so childminders can run the out of school clubs that were being pushed so children can stay in school buildings for ten hours a day!

Simona
23-07-2015, 09:31 PM
Before I even read it I just knew it would be so childminders can run the out of school clubs that were being pushed so children can stay in school buildings for ten hours a day!

It may suit some CMs to fill the gaps in school for b'fast and after school clubs and an acute shortage of holiday care.... but this is not home based childcare!
It was one of Truss' brilliant ideas...NOT!
What would a cm do with a baby in her care all day? Just put it under her arm and go off to school?
Would parents like this arrangement when their choice is home based childcare

I despair at the DFE idiotic policies at times....it looks to me they are on purpose diluting what CMs do and believe we can work anywhere and fill any gaps in the market to suit their purpose :angry:
From what I read many CMs are not amused

watford wizz
23-07-2015, 10:35 PM
The whole idea stinks! And how are they going to prove/monitor "part" time ?

bunyip
24-07-2015, 08:06 AM
It doesn't make for happy reading.

On the plus side, CMs are self-employed are in a position to choose not to play ball, but it will only take one to get each school started.......:(

Sadly, there are a few in my area who only regard CMing as a preparation for a 'proper' childcare business. Previously this meant CMing until they knew enough and found suitable premises to open a nursery. I know at least one nearby who'd jump at the opportunity to run a big after-school club on school premises. She already takes a small army of children on school run, and constantly ingratiates herself with the staff and playground mums, so ithis wouldn't be a huge step up for her. :mad:

Mouse
24-07-2015, 08:17 AM
2 of our local schools have closed their breakfast and after school clubs as they're not "financially viable". One of the schools has no childminders who collect from there so parents are really struggling. I've had someone from early years phone me several times to see if I had any before/after school spaces and she even suggested I could approach the school about setting up a club there.

TinyTinker
24-07-2015, 09:51 AM
several cm near me have already done this - fair enough they would have had to apply for registration etc, but hey did it = they are offering the same flexibility of a cm, drop off/collection from several schools, holiday club, 7am-7pm times. but they have lots of space, lots of new resources, several assistants! and guess what I have gone from 13 mindees in December to 4 now! fair enough they didn't go to these places, I lost my mindees to moving, maternity etc , but every new enquiry that goes on face book, these places answer their thread after the cms at home do, and they all seem to go to these new places.

we don't stand a chance, it seems parents are moving away from the idea of liking homebased care these days.

My school already has a nursery who runs before/after school club in their school halls.:panic:

bunyip
24-07-2015, 02:10 PM
several cm near me have already done this - fair enough they would have had to apply for registration etc, but hey did it = they are offering the same flexibility of a cm, drop off/collection from several schools, holiday club, 7am-7pm times. but they have lots of space, lots of new resources, several assistants! and guess what I have gone from 13 mindees in December to 4 now! fair enough they didn't go to these places, I lost my mindees to moving, maternity etc , but every new enquiry that goes on face book, these places answer their thread after the cms at home do, and they all seem to go to these new places.

we don't stand a chance, it seems parents are moving away from the idea of liking homebased care these days.

My school already has a nursery who runs before/after school club in their school halls.:panic:


I tend to think we've been led by the nose down a route that is not good for CMing or for parents who want a genuine home-based environment.

There's been such an obsession with having what was called "a level playing field with nurseries/school" that we've blurred the distinction being home-based childcare and nursery/school. Our settings so often evolve to look like a 'mini-nursery' or 'reception class with soft furnishings' and we are at great pains to stress how we're "just as good as nursery/school" because we follow the same programme, same inspection regime, same funding, same this-that-and-the-other.

The urge to look the same as a nursery/school is always going to be self-defeating for CMs. If there is no distinction, then parents are left wondering what's the difference? They're entitled to think their children might be better off at a 'proper' nursery/school than a 'mini-nursery'.

At the same time, those parents looking for something genuinely homely and where children are offered 'childhood' rather than a premature start to 'education' are left groping in the dark for a setting which offers something different from early tick-lists of 'achievement'.

We've fallen into the trap of talking about learning and development in exactly the same terms as politicians. A lot of parents don't want that.

Since we're now almost entirely focussed upon getting children 'school ready', then the logical conclusion is to have them in school at an early stage and keep them in school for the before and after school hours care provision. :(

Simona
24-07-2015, 04:05 PM
I tend to think we've been led by the nose down a route that is not good for CMing or for parents who want a genuine home-based environment.

There's been such an obsession with having what was called "a level playing field with nurseries/school" that we've blurred the distinction being home-based childcare and nursery/school. Our settings so often evolve to look like a 'mini-nursery' or 'reception class with soft furnishings' and we are at great pains to stress how we're "just as good as nursery/school" because we follow the same programme, same inspection regime, same funding, same this-that-and-the-other.

The urge to look the same as a nursery/school is always going to be self-defeating for CMs. If there is no distinction, then parents are left wondering what's the difference? They're entitled to think their children might be better off at a 'proper' nursery/school than a 'mini-nursery'.

At the same time, those parents looking for something genuinely homely and where children are offered 'childhood' rather than a premature start to 'education' are left groping in the dark for a setting which offers something different from early tick-lists of 'achievement'.

We've fallen into the trap of talking about learning and development in exactly the same terms as politicians. A lot of parents don't want that.

Since we're now almost entirely focussed upon getting children 'school ready', then the logical conclusion is to have them in school at an early stage and keep them in school for the before and after school hours care provision. :(

We did push for the level playing field but not to become mini nurseries or to even compete with them or recreate their environment
CMs and nurseries are on totally opposite end of the spectrum....the latter being an institution where children hardly get to know about what is going on in the community unless they are wheeled out in those awful buggies where children cannot even be spoken to by the public!...and spend 10 hours a day in one room.


It does grate when all we hear is about nurseries now and CMs get a mention
I feel CMs needed more recognition for the same work we do but in a very different environment
The sad thing is that our ever decreasing numbers will give parents less choice, children less continuity and the chance of being institutionalised becoming very real.

Mouse
24-07-2015, 05:56 PM
I agree with you completely Bunyip.

You only need to look at the facebook pages where childminders post pictures of their amazing playrooms and set ups to see that there is a real shift towards making their home into a mini nursery. It takes a very brave childminder to post a picture of their home, without posters, bright flooring or dedicated play areas and say "this is where I work".

I know we all work differently and some people want the nursery set up (some of them are so nice I'd love to go and play!) but Ofsted or the DfE have never said we have to do that. How many times do inspectors, parents and other childminders need to see nursery type set ups before it becomes accepted as the norm?

sing-low
24-07-2015, 06:38 PM
It's only since the possibility of cming has been (possibly) taken away from me, that I have realised how passionate I am about home-based childcare. Home, family, childhood, play - these things are important, precisely because you cannot put a price on them.

newbie
25-07-2015, 07:34 AM
My home has no posters whatsoever and looks just like a FAMILY home should. My toys are kept in cupboards and wicker baskets with NO labels and the children just help themselves. The children that come to me are treated like part of the family and love my own older children. My families absolutely love this!

Simona
25-07-2015, 08:34 AM
I am puzzled as to why we think that many cms have decided to turn their settings into a nursery?
I am sure there are some Cms who have gone beyond what is required ...but is there any evidence other than on FB?(not on FB so not sure what is said there)
Networks used to be rather dictatorial in what they expected of cms....walls plastered with posters and this and that and mountains of paperwork everywhere...the very reason I left mine years ago.

I recall the wave of buying specific things for the garden...just because one cm was told by an inspector?...and the rush to buy letters and numbers to hang in the garden for literacy and maths...that is not what is needed! that is exactly what nurseries do because they never go to a park like cms.

I read oven and over that cms must do this or have that paperwork because Ofsted want it...I am not convinced this to be true....it is us who judge what to have, display and explain to inspectors.
Ofsted are there to judge outcomes and not what is on the wall or how much paperwork we produce.


I personally have been in many cms' settings and not seen anything that resembles a nursery.
Some cms do have a playroom so that can be slightly different but we cannot confine the children in one room as cms...we are not nurseries!

I have spoken to cms fiercely determined to keep home based childcare totally separate from nursery provision....it is not even comparable
I also know of cms determined to promote our settings and care as the best for babies and young children and ensure it will survive future govt policies

We do stand a chance and will loose only if we allow the sector to be taken over by 'nurseries' and do not challenge our exclusion from the constant messages by Ofsted and DfE.

Without cms the whole future childcare policy will collapse...this is the time to make ourselves heard.
Some cms will go and run school clubs...for whatever reasons...in a way I'd rather they did than those youngsters that seem to be employed by schools to do so who are barely out of school.

We need to dust off Truss' original idea of why she wanted cms in schools and why her successor is now pushing this policy!

mumofone
25-07-2015, 09:50 AM
As a new CM starting out i find it all so contradictory and confusing! My DO told me not to spend loads on resources but then I fear I will be downgraded for not having sufficient resources. I am told there is no need to make my garden into a play park but then I fear I will be downgraded for not providing enough opportunities to play outdoors for those children that "learn better outdoors". I am told by fellow CMs i dont need bunting on my shed but then fear I will be downgraded for not promoting literacy outdoors. I worry that I dont currently have a "water wall" and bits of piping and guttering on my fence which seem to go down well with many inspectors.....there isn't it seems to me just one clear message of whats really expected of us.

natlou82
25-07-2015, 10:27 AM
As a fairly new CM on the block I have got to know many CMs in my local area and there is a definate swing to becoming mini nurseries amongst the newly registered. A couple of CMs who registered at the same time as me are posting pictures up of amazing sound walls, water walls and mud kitchens and I do look and go "wow".I look around at school and the sure start toddler groups I attend and think, great ideas I can buy / do that etc but then I realise that I don't have the money that schools, nurseries etc have. The beauty is that the children can enjoy my home resources then we can go to a group and use the fantastic resources there and then go to the park and play on wonderful equipment. I don't know why I get into a tizz but sometimes I do! Some of the more experienced CMs in my area do offer a very homely environment and have had very good inspections. I think we sometimes do push ourselves to far when we should have confidence in ourselves and our settings. Back to the OP, my infant school currently has no after school club and relies on us CMs who are all full with after school children and tbh there's not enough of us! They could jump at this opportunity. Only time will tell!

Mouse
25-07-2015, 10:34 AM
I am puzzled as to why we think that many cms have decided to turn their settings into a nursery?
I am sure there are some Cms who have gone beyond what is required ...but is there any evidence other than on FB?(not on FB so not sure what is said there)


There are nearly 17,000 members on the forum FB page and many many of them now have nursery type settings. I think that is pretty strong evidence to back up the idea that many childminders are now turning their homes into mini nurseries.
I also see local childminders who have nursery type settings with gardens that would put any adventure playground to shame.

When other childminders, particularly new ones, see settings like that it's no wonder they think that's how it should be. There'll often be a post from someone saying that after seeing all these fabulous settings they don't think their home is good enough.

As I said before, Ofsted has never placed any expectations on childminders having their homes decked out like nurseries, but it does worry me that the more places they see like that, the more it will become expected.

Mouse
25-07-2015, 10:41 AM
As a new CM starting out i find it all so contradictory and confusing! My DO told me not to spend loads on resources but then I fear I will be downgraded for not having sufficient resources. I am told there is no need to make my garden into a play park but then I fear I will be downgraded for not providing enough opportunities to play outdoors for those children that "learn better outdoors". I am told by fellow CMs i dont need bunting on my shed but then fear I will be downgraded for not promoting literacy outdoors. I worry that I dont currently have a "water wall" and bits of piping and guttering on my fence which seem to go down well with many inspectors.....there isn't it seems to me just one clear message of whats really expected of us.

It's a confidence thing, isn't it? I'm lucky that I started minding before social networking and the internet even existed, so the only examples I had to follow were existing childminders who all had very normal houses. After all these years I'm confident in what I do, so don't feel the same pressures as new childminders must. Having said that though, I do still have the odd wobble where I doubt myself.

At my last inspection I didn't have a playroom, I didn't have any posters up and I didn't have an adventure playground garden. I did have a lot of resources (because I'm a devil for buying new things!), but it was the quality and use of them that the inspector commented on rather than the quantity.

FussyElmo
25-07-2015, 10:56 AM
I would happily put up photos of my house so you can see a normal house. HOWEVER I will have to tidy up first.

Its the summer holidays and my own children are very quickly resembling the lord of the flies.

Im also a great believer of being able to pack everything up so once I finish (dare I say clock off :laughing::laughing:) its back to normal family messy home :thumbsup:

FussyElmo
25-07-2015, 02:16 PM
I would happily put up photos of my house so you can see a normal house. HOWEVER I will have to tidy up first.

Its the summer holidays and my own children are very quickly resembling the lord of the flies.

Im also a great believer of being able to pack everything up so once I finish (dare I say clock off :laughing::laughing:) its back to normal family messy home :thumbsup:

My house apart from the book area not a nursery. I would take the canopy down but it's a pain and my youngest 2 like it up

8727



8728

Mouse
25-07-2015, 04:56 PM
Pretty much like my home Fussy - no sign of childminding when I'm not working!

Admittedly I do have a playroom, but that's because I like to be able to shut the door on it at the end of the day and I don't like to keep getting the toys in and out from the shed like I used to. Now I keep a few boxes of toys indoors and rotate them regularly. We do spread out through the rest of the house during the day, but everything goes back in the playroom before home time.

I also think it's different when you have young children of your own and you naturally have their toys around. Now that my children are older we don't want a nursery type home or a garden devoted to toddlers.

Simona
25-07-2015, 08:51 PM
There are nearly 17,000 members on the forum FB page and many many of them now have nursery type settings. I think that is pretty strong evidence to back up the idea that many childminders are now turning their homes into mini nurseries.
I also see local childminders who have nursery type settings with gardens that would put any adventure playground to shame.

When other childminders, particularly new ones, see settings like that it's no wonder they think that's how it should be. There'll often be a post from someone saying that after seeing all these fabulous settings they don't think their home is good enough.

As I said before, Ofsted has never placed any expectations on childminders having their homes decked out like nurseries, but it does worry me that the more places they see like that, the more it will become expected.

Fair enough...so many CMs on FB have decided to turn their setting into a nursery...I suppose the DfE will be pleased with their ' innovative' idea but that does not mean we all have to worry about that....home based childcare remains the same and you are right on Ofsted having no requirements for us to do the same
Turning a home into a mini nursery is not necessarily a fabulous idea and what settings do they judge to be fabulous?

Mumofone...there is no need to have a water wall...a simple set up with water and a few funnels and pipes will do.
Nurseries have to have these gadgets because they never take the children anywhere and possibly want to impress an inspector
I'd rather take the children to the beach...all we need to do is follow the EYFS and provide opportunities for them to learn from...bunting will not do that as a garden caters for all 7 areas of learning

Simona
27-07-2015, 07:08 AM
Sorry to come back to you on this Mouse.....you said there 17,000 cms on the forum FB page
There are also 2 other FB pages run by independent CMs...and more I am sure by others.

I don' t think they have reported the same problem....I will try to get some news from them....but I know for sure they are very much in defence of home based childcare.

JCrakers
27-07-2015, 07:59 AM
When I was inspected by my Early Years team so I could receive the FEEE I had to label toy boxes with pictures and words. Something that you wouldn't see in a home environment as I never had them labelled as a parent.

And with comments from Ofsted inspectors (My inspector 3yrs ago) 'Nurseries can achieve Outstanding because they have more networking, a wider range of children and more recourses' is there any wonder that we are trying to turn into mini nurseries?

mama2three
27-07-2015, 08:02 AM
I agree with everything said about home based childcare - my home hasn't got a playroom , it looks more or less like your average messy family home by the weekend.During the week I put out various resources to suit the children.
I could put on photos showing it looking a bit like yours fussy , ( if I tidied up first!).
But I do have a waterwall , a giant outdoor xylophone , a huge natural sand area , all the things you've suggested aren't necessarily appropriate for a childminder. Are they necessary? No. Do they give the children something a little more than if I didn't have them? Most definitely.
I think theres a balance to be found...whatever you and your family are happy with in terms of how ''taken over'' your house becomes. My home is exactly that , a family home where children feel comfortable ...with lots to do to keep them happy , entertained and learning.
Some of the photos of my garden could look a bit ''nurseryiish'' - it doesn't mean Im wanting to be a mini nursery. I wont have assistants , the children all get continuity of me and only me caring for them unlike in a nursery. We are still free to offer really individual care as we have small numbers. I still go and access the wealth of experiences available around us ...Im so lucky to live next to a forest... hopefully the children get the best of both worlds.

bunyip
27-07-2015, 09:36 AM
Very interesting and intelligent points made by all.

But it's not just about the degree to which a CM's setting looks 'nurserified'. You could argue that is a symptom and not the problem itself.

My worry is that we've been programmed to believe we have to compete on the DofE's terms: "think nursery" and in particular to "think school-ready".

We've been crushed and squeezed into a very narrow political definition of 'learning and development' the short-term goal of which is to make the little blighters easier for teachers to control and , ultimately, to fit the UK regime's unhealthy competitive urge to top the world's education 'premier league table'..................... at absolutely any cost to the children, families and, indeed, childhood itself.

CMs, instead of pointing out how uniquely different we are from nurseries, over-stress how similar we are: often exhibiting itself as a self-fulfilling prophecy in which we become more nursery-like and less home-like in spirit, character and ethos.

This phenomenon tends to present itself from time to time on the forum and in conversations I've had with other CMs, particularly around a parent choosing between sending their child to nursery or a CM. All too often, the CM's argument is along the lines of: "why would mum want to send DD/DS to nursery when my setting offers everything a nursery does?" In other words: we do EYFS, L&D, blah-di-blah-di-blah ...................just like nursery. There is often a failure to present how a CM is uniquely different to a nursery, and too much emphasis on being the same.

I believe this is pushing CMs in general to become more nursery-minded, more nursery-like. And it is often being driven by organisations like pacey, or individuals who would to impose their preferred CMing style on the whole industry/profession/call it what you will: usually in the guise of those little critical buzz-words such as "more professional" or "best practice". This was exactly the sort of thing a lot of people feared would happen when pacey stopped being a CMs organisation and started touting for members around nurseries, nannying, etc. Not that they're entirely to blame: the process and emphasis shift was already well under way before NCMA mutated into pacey.

I think their is room for different styles of CMing and parents should be free to choose somewhere along a continuum of 'homeliness' - 'educational-iness'. I think my own bias is pretty clear, but the opposite is still an entirely valid choice. What I do have a problem with is the lack of choice and the labelling of less educationally-oriented settings as of "lower quality". I think this is coupled with a rather insidious tendency to wrap up the premature education in a facade of homeliness, and con ourselves into believing we're always offering the best of both worlds.

I guess much of it boils down to a choice between cow-towing to 'over-education' for political ends or offering children some vestige of 'a childhood' - hopefully one which I'm not over-sentimentalising. But the more parents I listen to, the more I fear that we CMs are being subsumed into a rather uniform agglomerate of "the childcare industry". Many, not all, but still many parents want an alternative to premature/over-education, over-regulation, school-readying, etc. They want, essentially, a home-from-home for their children. They want, dare I say, something a little less professional: a bit more like being with mum and dad (or grandma/granddad) than like being with Teacher. We are becoming (or at the very least, in extreme danger of becoming) less different, less unique, less individual, and less of what many families actually want for their children.

Mouse
27-07-2015, 11:19 AM
I agree with everything said about home based childcare - my home hasn't got a playroom , it looks more or less like your average messy family home by the weekend.During the week I put out various resources to suit the children.
I could put on photos showing it looking a bit like yours fussy , ( if I tidied up first!).
But I do have a waterwall , a giant outdoor xylophone , a huge natural sand area , all the things you've suggested aren't necessarily appropriate for a childminder. Are they necessary? No. Do they give the children something a little more than if I didn't have them? Most definitely.
I think theres a balance to be found...whatever you and your family are happy with in terms of how ''taken over'' your house becomes. My home is exactly that , a family home where children feel comfortable ...with lots to do to keep them happy , entertained and learning.
Some of the photos of my garden could look a bit ''nurseryiish'' - it doesn't mean Im wanting to be a mini nursery. I wont have assistants , the children all get continuity of me and only me caring for them unlike in a nursery. We are still free to offer really individual care as we have small numbers. I still go and access the wealth of experiences available around us ...Im so lucky to live next to a forest... hopefully the children get the best of both worlds.

I hope I didn't come across as critical of nursery type childminding settings, that certainly wasn't my intention. I don't think I said these things aren't appropriate for childminders (any thing is appropriate if it's what you want), but I don't think they're necessary if they're not want you want.

I think if you have a waterwall etc because you want to, that's very different to having them because you feel you have to or because you believe that's what parents and inspectors are looking for. I have a big notice board on my wall and have what I'd consider nursery type displays on it. That's not in the least bit homely, but I have it because I like doing displays with the children. If I was told I had to have something like that (knowing me) I'd rebel and refuse to - that's probably why I don't have labels on toy boxes. I'm too stubborn!

My point is that many new starters are being led to believe that they should have their house looking more like a nursery and less like a home with sofas and coffee tables and ornaments on the shelves. Going by pictures I've seen and houses I've visited there does seem to be more a move towards having a reading corner with an Ikea canopy, a dedicated role play area, posters and labelled coat hooks on the wall. These houses look lovely and I've no doubt children have a great time and childminders are proud of what they offer.

But I have seen newly registered childminders worrying that they can't compete because their house looks like ...well, a family home. And I've heard many childminders talk of giving up because childminding has taken over their home, or because they "want their house back". It's a shame that many don't feel their home os good enough when in fact it's exactly what many parents are looking for.

Mouse
27-07-2015, 11:23 AM
Sorry to come back to you on this Mouse.....you said there 17,000 cms on the forum FB page
There are also 2 other FB pages run by independent CMs...and more I am sure by others.

I don' t think they have reported the same problem....I will try to get some news from them....but I know for sure they are very much in defence of home based childcare.

Maybe we're talking about different things Simona. I don't mean that childminders are turning their businesses into nurseries, but that their homes are starting to look very much like nursery settings. They are definitely still home based childcare, but the homes don't look like your average family home any more.

Simona
27-07-2015, 01:39 PM
Maybe we're talking about different things Simona. I don't mean that childminders are turning their businesses into nurseries, but that their homes are starting to look very much like nursery settings. They are definitely still home based childcare, but the homes don't look like your average family home any more.

No no...you did understand what I am saying and I know what you are saying too.
We just need to 'fight' ...wrong word?....to preserve cminding for what it is
A home that looks like a nursery is not necessarily what parents want even if the environment may be lovely and all that jazz...but so is a comfy room with a huge snuggly sofa and a home feel....without all the literacy and numeracy bunting!

bunyip
27-07-2015, 04:38 PM
No no...you did understand what I am saying and I know what you are saying too.
We just need to 'fight' ...wrong word?....to preserve cminding for what it is
A home that looks like a nursery is not necessarily what parents want even if the environment may be lovely and all that jazz...but so is a comfy room with a huge snuggly sofa and a home feel....without all the literacy and numeracy bunting!

I absolutely, positively, definitely, categorical agree :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

..............again

..............please note. :)

bunyip
27-07-2015, 04:38 PM
I absolutely, positively, definitely, categorical agree :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

..............again

..............please note. :)

Did I understate that? :confused: