What's your thought on parents using childcare when it's not needed?

[HTSMumma]

How would you feel if a family had a child in your childcare setting full time and mum didn't work? Dad works and mum works weekends and maybe one night in the week, but child is always in childcare and mum is at home binge watching TV shows etc.

I have this situation at the moment. Of course I am grateful I have a full time child and I have that income coming in but I feel desperately sorry for the child. She's with me Monday to Friday 9am to 5.30pm. Parents receive tax credits so it's no odds to the to pay for the child care.
Mum has a baby due in a couple of months and still intends to keep 20 months old child with me full time.

An older child also goes to after school club, which to be fair, he may enjoy.

Battling with the sadness I feel for this child and the feeling of reassurance that the income brings.

Child is mostly happy, clean and has suitable clothes, I have no suspicions of neglect or any other abuse. But could this be deemed as emotional neglect? Or just downright laziness on mum's part?

Child is exhausting but a normal 20 month old.

Is this no different to a rich family having a full time nanny?

I think I'm just after some reassurance that I'm worrying for nothing.

Is what they do while child is in my care none of my business?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Ripeberry]

Each to their own. Sounds like the mum is depressed :(

[lollipop kid]

Have you ever asked this Mum what her reasons are?

It might be that she is going through a hard time with this pregnancy, or she feels that her children need routine and contact with children of similar ages that comes with being in a childcare or after-school setting, or something else entirely.

If she feels that she is doing the best for her child(ren), then it's up to her.

Have a chat with her. You might be surprised.

All the best,

L

[Maza]

Not a lot we can do about it - there will always be parents like that from all classes and cultures. As long as the time that they do spend with their child is quality time then that's good enough. Some people just don't 'get much' out of being with little children, even though they love them.

Sometimes, come 6 o'clock when I am desperate for some 'me time', I see the parents faces light up when they collect their children and I think, awwww, the children are going to have a lovely couple of hours now with someone who really wants to be with them, whereas if they had been with them all day long it might have been more in terms of quantity but would it have been pure quality? Not all day long. Some parents would be resentful at having to do that and who knows, it might be detrimental to their relationship in the long run.

Your situation does seem a little extreme - five days a week, but we just don't know what underlying reasons there are for this. x

[Mouse]

It sounds as if you have a very low opinion of this mum and that may be clouding your judgement.

As you say, if mum was rich and using a nanny you wouldn't think the same. If mum was wealthy, used you for full time childcare, but spent her time out having lunch, visiting friends, going to the beauty salon and going to the gym would you feel the same? Would you suspect her of emotional neglect? But you worry this child is suffering from neglect because they are with you full time while mum stays at home 'binge watching TV'?

To be honest, it's no business of mine what parents do while their children are here. I offer a childcare service. It isn't only for working parents. It's for anyone who wants to send their child to me, for whatever reason. You don't always know what's going on at home. Maybe mum is lazy, maybe she finds it hard to cope, maybe she just isn't very maternal. Whatever the reason I bet the child benefits hugely from coming to you - maybe they're better off full time with you than being at home?

[loocyloo]

I used to nanny for a family where mum said she loved her 4 children to pieces but couldn't be with them 24 /7. She was a great mum at weekends and bedtime but on holiday just couldn't do it! (They always took the nanny away with them too!) Mum just ran out of patience/ enthusiasm/ energy after a couple of days!
When I had holiday granny would come to stay or even a temp nanny!

[Kiddleywinks]

To be honest, it's no business of mine what parents do while their children are here. I offer a childcare service. It isn't only for working parents. It's for anyone who wants to send their child to me, for whatever reason. You don't always know what's going on at home. Maybe mum is lazy, maybe she finds it hard to cope, maybe she just isn't very maternal. Whatever the reason I bet the child benefits hugely from coming to you - maybe they're better off full time with you than being at home?

I agree with mouse here, the child is probably gaining a lot more from being with you.
Maybe mum is depressed and if she's pregnant is possibly tired too. A 20 month old can be very demanding and mum may not have the energy to be 'hands on'
There are lots of reasons for parents to want their child to be looked after, better being with you than passed from pillar to post ;-)

[tess1981]

I do find this very odd only because the child is you five full days. I have a mum with me and I mind 2 of her 7 children. She uses me 2 days a week sometimes a third day so she can have time to herself to do messages appointment or the mountain of house work she has she does not work but really grateful she has time to herself. Even when her older children are off school I still have the younger two so she can go do things without the hassle of the younger two. They are very unruly at home but angels here

[HTSMumma]

It sounds as if you have a very low opinion of this mum and that may be clouding your judgement. As you say, if mum was rich and using a nanny you wouldn't think the same. If mum was wealthy, used you for full time childcare, but spent her time out having lunch, visiting friends, going to the beauty salon and going to the gym would you feel the same? Would you suspect her of emotional neglect? But you worry this child is suffering from neglect because they are with you full time while mum stays at home 'binge watching TV'? To be honest, it's no business of mine what parents do while their children are here. I offer a childcare service. It isn't only for working parents. It's for anyone who wants to send their child to me, for whatever reason. You don't always know what's going on at home. Maybe mum is lazy, maybe she finds it hard to cope, maybe she just isn't very maternal. Whatever the reason I bet the child benefits hugely from coming to you - maybe they're better off full time with you than being at home?

What makes you think I have a low opinion of this mum? Yes, I've been struggling to understand why she sends the child to me all day, five days a week, that's why I came here to get some other ideas.
I challenged my own thoughts by mentioning a rich family with a nanny. The fact that they are
A lower income family holds no relevance to me regarding judgement. We are too a low income family. You are putting words in my mouth by continuing this further by going on about a rich parent going for lunches and spas? How would I know if this hypothetical family is causing emotional neglect? Maybe, maybe not?

I am very grateful to the suggestion that I haven't thought of; maybe mum suffers depression, not very maternal etc.
In response to the person asking if I've asked mum why she sends the child to me full time, I guess if I'm really honest, I've been scared to hear her response. I know that makes me a little cowardly.

The comment about binge watching tele, that's not speculation, this is fact. Something the mum has told me. Again, I didn't add this to my original comment because I have a low opinion of her, but I have found it saddening that she will send her child to childcare and then go home and watching TV for a large portion of the day.

Anyway, I guess it really is none of my business.

[FussyElmo]

I suppose it depends on the viewpoint of whether or not childcare is needed.

Yes they get tax credits but that wont come close to paying it all so they have decided as a family that childcare is needed. Maybe Mum is depressed and finds that she doesn't cope very well. Going to toddler groups and activities for children isn't everybody's idea of enjoyment.

You don't say how long you have had the child but could Mum had problems in her last pregnancies or maybe shes just shattered and thinks the child will benefit from being with you.

[Mouse]

What makes you think I have a low opinion of this mum? .

Apologies. My assumption that you have a low opinion of this mum was made purely on your comments that mum "binge watches TV" and that you consider she may be "downright lazy".

[HTSMumma]

Apologies. My assumption that you have a low opinion of this mum was made purely on your comments that mum "binge watches TV" and that you consider she may be "downright lazy".

Thanks. And again, the downright lazy comment was posed as a question, not a statement of belief. Although, I do have my suspicions having known the family for sometime and the comments from dad about mum.

[HTSMumma]

I suppose it depends on the viewpoint of whether or not childcare is needed. Yes they get tax credits but that wont come close to paying it all so they have decided as a family that childcare is needed. Maybe Mum is depressed and finds that she doesn't cope very well. Going to toddler groups and activities for children isn't everybody's idea of enjoyment. You don't say how long you have had the child but could Mum had problems in her last pregnancies or maybe shes just shattered and thinks the child will benefit from being with you.

I don't think they pay a huge amount to top up the cost of childcare to be honest.

I've had the child since she was 9 months old.

Mum hasn't always not worked so little.

You know when you just hear things and then the actions don't add up? I think that's what led me to ask for other thoughts. Something's not adding up and I'm just worried that when new baby comes, the middle child I look after will end up feeling pushed aside, especially when new baby and eldest stay at home and she has to go to childcare.

Thanks for your comments.

[lollipop kid]

I don't think they pay a huge amount to top up the cost of childcare to be honest.

I've had the child since she was 9 months old.

Mum hasn't always not worked so little.

You know when you just hear things and then the actions don't add up? I think that's what led me to ask for other thoughts. Something's not adding up and I'm just worried that when new baby comes, the middle child I look after will end up feeling pushed aside, especially when new baby and eldest stay at home and she has to go to childcare.

Thanks for your comments.

If you've got concerns about these children, then you should be noting them down and keeping a record. It's not our job to investigate - we can only record what we see, hear and feel.

I hope that helps.

L

[HTSMumma]

If you've got concerns about these children, then you should be noting them down and keeping a record. It's not our job to investigate - we can only record what we see, hear and feel. I hope that helps. L
I think I will start writing down facts. It will be interesting to see whether her plans change when baby is born and if she decides to keep 20 month old home a few days a week.

I spoke to my assessor about this and she has said the same, to start recording any concerns I have.

Thanks.

[hectors house]

You mention that older child is a "he" but not the gender of the 20 month old, just wonder if that child is a boy also and the fact that mum is pregnant again if she was really disappointed that the 2nd child was another boy and maybe has got post natal depression and hasn't bonded to this child. All speculation on my part, just know how much I had my heart set on finally getting a boy with baby no. 3 and having post natal depression because it was a 3rd girl.

[samb]

Maybe mum hasn't bonded well with middle child through some sort of mental health issue or even a tragedy she can't accept around the time of this little one etc... I can understand you feeling uncomfortable to ask. I have also looked after children for same amount of time when mums not worked as when they have. It feels odd to us but then we have often chosen this type of job as we don't want to leave our children at all so it is difficult for us to understand anyway.

[blue bear]

Interesting loophole with tax credits where you can claim for childcare used when you are not actually working?
I presume the hours mum works at weekend dad looks after the children?

I've had non working parents send their children to me I've never really thought anything of it, after all the 2 3 and 4 year old funding isn't given provided you are working is it.

Something is obviously niggling you though, always document everything.

[HTSMumma]

Maybe mum hasn't bonded well with middle child through some sort of mental health issue or even a tragedy she can't accept around the time of this little one etc... I can understand you feeling uncomfortable to ask. I have also looked after children for same amount of time when mums not worked as when they have. It feels odd to us but then we have often chosen this type of job as we don't want to leave our children at all so it is difficult for us to understand anyway.

Oh my gosh, possibly the nail on the head there!

Mum's father sadly passed away not long after child I mind was born.
This is something I haven't considered and thank you for thinking of it.

20 month old is a handful and maybe that plus father passing away has meant that she is struggling with some undiagnosed depression and can't cope with any challenging behaviour from the child.

You're also right, I chose this profession because I wanted to be around my own children, which is why I've found this mum sending her daughter to childcare when it's not needed so distressing.


Thank you for responding.

[HTSMumma]

Interesting loophole with tax credits where you can claim for childcare used when you are not actually working? I presume the hours mum works at weekend dad looks after the children? I've had non working parents send their children to me I've never really thought anything of it, after all the 2 3 and 4 year old funding isn't given provided you are working is it. Something is obviously niggling you though, always document everything.

Is this an actual loophole with childcare tax credits or are they being dishonest by not disclosing mum isn't working? I truly don't know. Not that it's any of my business.

[Fitrix]

I'd say so long as the little girl is happy and thriving then all is good. Sounds like mum has her reasons although some mums really are not maternal. I feel your sadness for this little girl. I have a 6 year old every day after school until 6.30. Her mum has 2 days off a week but has never picked her up early. She goes to her dads house at weekends or grandmas. In the two years I've had her she's never had a play date or a birthday party. Mum never goes to her class assemblies or when parents can go in and participate. It's such a shame. But the worst thing is that she is becoming quite a horrible child. In order to get childrens attention she manipulates and pits kids against each other so they play with her. In order to get adults attention she speaks in a baby voice and is quite disruptive. She was such a sweet girl but mums complete disinterest does seem to be having an effect...... Something to watch and consider!

[Rubybubbles]

Is this an actual loophole with childcare tax credits or are they being dishonest by not disclosing mum isn't working? I truly don't know. Not that it's any of my business.

My friend used to get funding (not sure how) to send her children to childcare due to her depression (she had 3 under 3)

[shortstuff]

I think it also depends on the definition of needed.

I had a mum who needed a break so i had lo in a gap when others were at preschool. She was a stay at home mum. So dad assumed she should cope and not need him to step up. She was getting frazzled so needed a break.

[KatieFS]

I think it's strange fur a full time child, are you sure she isn't working? Perhaps work from home job that she can't have a 20m old around?
I've had twins odd days here and there for respite care.
One thing I've learnt is that not all parents are like me. I wouldn't dream of keeping my child away from me for any longer than is completely necessary, id feel guilty if I had to take a day off sick and still sent them to childcare, I've had chikdren here on their birthdays, again I would never do this but seems normal to some families. Constantly being late picking up, or early, or forgetting really important things their chikdren have asked for or need, again not my business but feel desperately sorry for some children. And actually parents. So career driven sometimes unaware of what's important to their children.

I try not to judge but it's very hard when you look after children very emotive and bit easy not to be biased, I don't comment as it's not my place, I get on with my job and let parents get on with it.

Perhaps there is more to this. Mum tired depressed needs respite, are there issues with bonding?
At the end of the day, what can you actually do? Just be there for the child and for the family. It sounds like they need you

[HTSMumma]

I think it also depends on the definition of needed. I had a mum who needed a break so i had lo in a gap when others were at preschool. She was a stay at home mum. So dad assumed she should cope and not need him to step up. She was getting frazzled so needed a break.

I get respite, I get needing a break. I need breaks and time away from my own kids too....

Monday to Friday, 9-5.30 though, for almost 48 weeks a year?

[HTSMumma]

I think it's strange fur a full time child, are you sure she isn't working? Perhaps work from home job that she can't have a 20m old around? I've had twins odd days here and there for respite care. One thing I've learnt is that not all parents are like me. I wouldn't dream of keeping my child away from me for any longer than is completely necessary, id feel guilty if I had to take a day off sick and still sent them to childcare, I've had chikdren here on their birthdays, again I would never do this but seems normal to some families. Constantly being late picking up, or early, or forgetting really important things their chikdren have asked for or need, again not my business but feel desperately sorry for some children. And actually parents. So career driven sometimes unaware of what's important to their children. I try not to judge but it's very hard when you look after children very emotive and bit easy not to be biased, I don't comment as it's not my place, I get on with my job and let parents get on with it. Perhaps there is more to this. Mum tired depressed needs respite, are there issues with bonding? At the end of the day, what can you actually do? Just be there for the child and for the family. It sounds like they need you

No other job. I usually get a little low down on what she has planned for the day before she leaves in the morning. It's usually an errand or two, sleep, TV, lunch with a friend etc etc. Very rarely is it actual work.

Ah well, you're right, what can I do? They pay me my wages and it's my job after all. Just feel so sad for soon to be middle child. I hope mum will spend some quality time with her when baby is born.

[KatieFS]

Yes I would feel the same x

[KatieFS]

Another example!!!
8 yo choir concert, been working towards it for months. Mum and dad busy at work, it's at 7pm Ffs
Why can't they take time off ? Makes me so cross

[HTSMumma]

Another example!!! 8 yo choir concert, been working towards it for months. Mum and dad busy at work, it's at 7pm Ffs Why can't they take time off ? Makes me so cross

The poor child. I'd be heartbroken if I couldn't attend an amazing event such as that.

[lollipop kid]

Another example!!!
8 yo choir concert, been working towards it for months. Mum and dad busy at work, it's at 7pm Ffs
Why can't they take time off ? Makes me so cross

Can just imagine the lavish Christmas presents they buy to 'compensate' for that! :censored:

L

[keohane1]

I look after twins and the mum is not working and when she was working her children came to me no matter what even if she had a day off. She struggles to cope with them full time hence the reason they go to nursery and a childminder. She has never told me she can't cope but the grandmother has made many comments that tell me this. I used to think she was a bad mother but I take back what I said. You don't know how hard it is until you are in that position yourself, she was a full time mum and dad in one, worked full time to give the children everything she could and Clearly loves her children. its better to ask for help rather than neglect them even if she doesn't have them much herself.
My lesson I learnt, never Judge a book by its cover unless you have reason to!

[alwaysright]

i think its about time the government tightened up the tax credits rules for childcare which enables parents to do this! this parent has absolutely no legitimate use for a full time childcare place and after school care but abuses the system because she can and the tax payers foot the bill. a prime example of what is wrong with this country and she is not alone!

[alwaysright]

It sounds as if you have a very low opinion of this mum and that may be clouding your judgement.

As you say, if mum was rich and using a nanny you wouldn't think the same. If mum was wealthy, used you for full time childcare, but spent her time out having lunch, visiting friends, going to the beauty salon and going to the gym would you feel the same? Would you suspect her of emotional neglect? But you worry this child is suffering from neglect because they are with you full time while mum stays at home 'binge watching TV'?

To be honest, it's no business of mine what parents do while their children are here. I offer a childcare service. It isn't only for working parents. It's for anyone who wants to send their child to me, for whatever reason. You don't always know what's going on at home. Maybe mum is lazy, maybe she finds it hard to cope, maybe she just isn't very maternal. Whatever the reason I bet the child benefits hugely from coming to you - maybe they're better off full time with you than being at home?

i think all of the above is fine unless its being funded by the taxpayers via tax credits! why should this be funded so she can laze around all day, if she was footing the bill herself then its a different story

[tess1981]

i think its about time the government tightened up the tax credits rules for childcare which enables parents to do this! this parent has absolutely no legitimate use for a full time childcare place and after school care but abuses the system because she can and the tax payers foot the bill. a prime example of what is wrong with this country and she is not alone!

This is a very valid point ...

[Mouse]

i think all of the above is fine unless its being funded by the taxpayers via tax credits! why should this be funded so she can laze around all day, if she was footing the bill herself then its a different story

Th OP says that parents claim tax credits, not specifically the childcare element of tax credits. I don't think it's fair to judge the family based on the limited knowledge we have of them and their financial situation and on the assumption that they are using childcare funding when mum doesn't work.

[HTSMumma]

Family receives childcare element of tax credits.



The funding of the childcare doesn't really bother me. Yes, it may be that the family aren't entitled to the childcare element of tax credits. That's between the family and HMRC.


And mum doesn't have twins and has a fully supportive partner and father of the kids... Despite me already saying I totally understand having a bit of respite and time away from kids, two situations are completely different.


My only issue is the well-being of the middle child, especially when the baby is born as mum intends to continue to send 20 month old girl to full time childcare, whilst on maternity leave, whilst baby and eldest boys are at home with her.


Again, I understand the need for respite. Is sending one of your children to childcare Monday to Friday 9am to 5.30pm respite though?


I'm hoping that as family are in receipt of childcare tax credits that it'll be no odds to her if she's paid for the childcare and will keep her child at home some days so middle child can bond with her new brother and won't feel pushed out.

I'm also considering taking a day off in the week from September so that may force mum to spend time with her. It'll all depend on whether me reducing a day means she'll cancel her contract with me or not, as I won't take a day off if it'll jeopardise a huge part of my income.

[FloraDora]

Haven't read all this thread but personally I don't think it's our place to judge why a parent uses our services.

I think if you want to have a day off mid week you do so for your self or family, not think this will make a parent do what you want them to do. Like others I have read said, you never know what is happening in a child's home and who are we to judge whether that is right or wrong.....unless it is to do with safeguarding which this doesn't seem to be or you would have followed that route already.

[HTSMumma]

Haven't read all this thread but personally I don't think it's our place to judge why a parent uses our services. I think if you want to have a day off mid week you do so for your self or family, not think this will make a parent do what you want them to do. Like others I have read said, you never know what is happening in a child's home and who are we to judge whether that is right or wrong.....unless it is to do with safeguarding which this doesn't seem to be or you would have followed that route already.

You misunderstand. I want to have a day off midweek because I want a day off, I'm not pursuing the opportunity to have a day off purely because I want mum to spend time with her daughter, that would be madness. It would be a nice side effect though! I won't go ahead with taking a day off if that means they or anyone else would cancel their whole contract with me as that would jeopardise my income and affect my family.

Really trying not to judge here. Which is why I came here asking for thoughts of other, more experienced childminders. Yes, I have concerns. If I didn't, I'd happily just take their money, look after their child and go la de da!!

But, While I think we are in no place to make judgements, we are in a prime position to make observations and if we feel it's necessary, report concerns to parents and/or social services.
I don't think this case is for social services to worry about but I came to this forum to help process my worries and try to gain advice from those who may have experienced a similar situation.