Starting points

[mumofone]

I have a 3 year old joining me and I felt really uncomfortable asking the mum what he can and can't do in order to document his starting points. I have a child record form that mentions whether their child is toilet trained/has accidents/can use a knife and fork but that's it. How do I document a child's starting points and how do i broach the subject with parents so that it doesn't appear judgemental if that makes sense?

[natlou82]

Have you got a copy of "What to expect When" you could sit and have a chat with mum and go through the points for the age group. Tbh I usually would do this meeting after a few weeks of care then you can add your input and ask mum what she thinks.

[mumofone]

Have you got a copy of "What to expect When" you could sit and have a chat with mum and go through the points for the age group. Tbh I usually would do this meeting after a few weeks of care then you can add your input and ask mum what she thinks.

Yes I have thanks :-) I just think she's reluctant to do that because we can both see he's on target for his age etc and it comes across like I'm saying well what should he be doing and if not why not etc. I think it's quite a delicate subject for parents...

[bunyip]

I have the parents write a couple of lines for each of the EYFS aspects of L&D, concentrating mainly on the Prime Aspects.

This can be informative or it can just as easily be a load of cobblers from some doting mum who thinks their 6mo should already be rowing for Oxford. Anyway you need it, or Ofsted will have your guts for failing to have 'assessed' the child the moment they cross the threshold.

Consider this to be Initial Assessment version 1.

Spend the next few weeks observing and you'll soon have your own Initial Assessment version 2.

A comparative analyasis of v1 against v2 does not normally represent true learning and development as such, but frequently provides a useful insight into any reality-gap between fact and mum's rose-coloured spectacle collection. :rolleyes:

[natlou82]

I always focus on the positives and what the child can already do. I'm not negative about what the child is not doing as it's not a definitive tick list and children develop in different ways and rates. Over time you can work on any areas that you wish to develop. Yes it's a tricky one to talk about but it is a mandatory part of our role.

[mumofone]

I have the parents write a couple of lines for each of the EYFS aspects of L&D, concentrating mainly on the Prime Aspects. This can be informative or it can just as easily be a load of cobblers from some doting mum who thinks their 6mo should already be rowing for Oxford. Anyway you need it, or Ofsted will have your guts for failing to have 'assessed' the child the moment they cross the threshold. Consider this to be Initial Assessment version 1. Spend the next few weeks observing and you'll soon have your own Initial Assessment version 2. A comparative analyasis of v1 against v2 does not normally represent true learning and development as such, but frequently provides a useful insight into any reality-gap between fact and mum's rose-coloured spectacle collection. :rolleyes:

Do you have to show the parents your assessment/starting points of the child or can you keep that confidential for yours and Mrs O's eyes only?

[bunyip]

Do you have to show the parents your assessment/starting points of the child or can you keep that confidential for yours and Mrs O's eyes only?

I'd share pretty much everything* with the parents unless it involved safeguarding points that might put a child at risk or prejudice an investigation.

On the whole, parents deserve more than Ofsted inspectres.

*(That's pretty much everything except my opinion of the family in a few rare cases. :rolleyes: )

[Maza]

Share it with the parents. Focus on what the child CAN do in each area. Then I write something under 'next steps' for each area. None of it should really be a surprise to the parents. I always explain before hand that I have to write in some 'next steps' so that we know how to help each individual child progress and so that we can all work together.

[mumofone]

Thanks Guys :-)
Ive put together a document for parents to complete, does this wording sound ok? -

As an OFSTED registered early years provider, I am required to record your child’s “starting points” upon entering my provision.
The early years foundation stage (EYFS) sets standards for the learning, development and care of children from birth to 5 years old
Please could you provide some initial detail (a couple of sentences is fine) for each of the EYFS areas of learning that you feel reflects your child’s capability in each area.
You may find the enclosed document “What to Expect When” helpful to refer to.


Is the word "capability" ok? I dont want it to sound negative!

[Maza]

To be honest, I don't really like the word in that context. I think it is quite an emotive word, and might make the parents defensive and even a bit stressed. If you are assessing their capabilities then you are obviously also assessing their 'incapabilities' so to speak. They might feel that they are being judged if their child isn't capable of doing something.

Sorry, I can't even think of an alternative word/sentence for you. I'll try and dig out mine in a while and see how I worded it. Mine might be far from perfect - I've not looked at it for a while.

[mumofone]

To be honest, I don't really like the word in that context. I think it is quite an emotive word, and might make the parents defensive and even a bit stressed. If you are assessing their capabilities then you are obviously also assessing their 'incapabilities' so to speak. They might feel that they are being judged if their child isn't capable of doing something. Sorry, I can't even think of an alternative word/sentence for you. I'll try and dig out mine in a while and see how I worded it. Mine might be far from perfect - I've not looked at it for a while.

That's what I was worried about! If you think of the word let me know! :-) :-)

[FussyElmo]

I don't really like handing forms for parents to fill in which are so subjective.

Rightly or wrongly the problem you will have is a lot of parents wont know what you mean by the eyfs terms so you wont get a true refelction. PSED for example very wide ranging.

You will get the mums who think that x is going to be the next Brian Cox and Usain Bolt rolled into one so if your observations don't match up.................
You will get the mum who are not that bothered about form filling and wont send it back or if they do there will not be much on it....................................

[mumofone]

I don't really like handing forms for parents to fill in which are so subjective. Rightly or wrongly the problem you will have is a lot of parents wont know what you mean by the eyfs terms so you wont get a true refelction. PSED for example very wide ranging. You will get the mums who think that x is going to be the next Brian Cox and Usain Bolt rolled into one so if your observations don't match up................. You will get the mum who are not that bothered about form filling and wont send it back or if they do there will not be much on it....................................

Haha :-) And herein lies my problem! I don't want to give such firms to parents but then OFSTED will tell me I'm not obtaining starting points from parents so what are we supposed to do?!

[Simona]

That's what I was worried about! If you think of the word let me know! :-) :-)

Maybe the word to use is 'achievements'?...this word is often used by those who call LJs 'Record of achievements'.
If a child has achieved a certain learning goal he/she is capable and developing at the expected rate.
If the goal is 'emerging' the child is still capable but may need support...that would fit in well with children achieving at their 'own pace' as a unique child.


From both Development Matters and the parents' own guide 'What to expect, when?' you and the parents can share info then you can assess if any child has achieved those milestones...those not achieved you would then plan 'next steps' for and plan activities to encourage that development.

[lollipop kid]

To help with recording starting points, I get parents to do an "All About Me" form just before the child joins my setting.

There's a section for: "I am good at..."

There's another section for: "I might need help with..."

I find these quite illuminating.

Then I just observe the child closely during settling in and these become the starting points that I record.

(I Agree with Simona - Achievements is a good word.)

Hope that helps,

L

[mumofone]

Will it be ok to do the following -

Parents to fill out "all about me" form on starting with me

Me to complete an initial observation/starting points doc

Me to complete a second observation/starting points doc when child has been with me for 4 weeks

Then to assess them every 6 months thereafter?

[natlou82]

Sounds good to me :-)