Would you give a reference

[keohane1]

I had a call today from a social worker asking for a reference for a parent of children that I look after.
The parent has lost her job so is looking to foster children as its good money (this is what she told me)and she is struggling to find another job!
There are a few things that I know and I am not too happy completing a reference unless I give true statements so what do I do as I don't want to complete it to the best of my knowledge and then the parent finds out what I have said.
On several occasions they have said to me on drop off that they couldn't cope having the children all day every day hence the reason they have sent them to nursery and childminders. She sent them to a childminder five days even though she was out of work for a year and not once did she keep them at home.
I don't doubt that she isn't a good mother but I don't believe she can cope with her own children full time so how can she cope looking after other children.
If I say no to a reference she will ask me why so it's I really don't know what to do but I am definitely not telling lies on paper just so she can look after young kids for money and send them to nursery with her own children.

[chris goodyear]

I think you have to put the interests of the children first. Children in foster care often come with baggage that's why they are in care and will need lots of support and patience, understanding and love. She may be lucky and have some come that have no issues i.e. a baby whose mum was a young teen or parent gone into hospital for a long time, there are many reasons why children get taken into care, but if she can't cope with her own I doubt she is the right person to go into fostering. Saying that it's not for me or any of us to judge as we don't know her but she will go through a very vigourous application process and they will assess her. If it was me I would truthfully answer as if it was found that I knew and lied I would be mortified and being in the childcare profession doesn't look good. Your conscious is telling you the same I feel so you must think of the children first.

[tess1981]

Could you speak to the parent first and say to her what you said on here ? Tell her you are not lying to social services and from what she has told you in the past you will have to put that down on reference ?

[Ripeberry]

Why would a foster carer send a foster child to a nursery? Rather defeats the object of being a 'carer'. Just tell the truth without putting any personal opinion into it.

[loocyloo]

I know a foster carer and current foster child goes to nursery just like any other 3/4 year old. She has had this child for about 6 mths and will have child until 'forever family' is found.
I couldn't do the job. It's heart breaking, the little I know about some of the children she cares for. And the hard work she puts in helping these children to settle down is phenomenal. It's not a job for the faint hearted.
Plus it's not just having the child in your house etc, there are often visits to meet with family, social services, hospital appointments etc. It is also the effect on the foster carer s own family.


I would ring social services and tell them how you feel and your experiences as her childminder.

[keohane1]

I know a foster carer and current foster child goes to nursery just like any other 3/4 year old. She has had this child for about 6 mths and will have child until 'forever family' is found.
I couldn't do the job. It's heart breaking, the little I know about some of the children she cares for. And the hard work she puts in helping these children to settle down is phenomenal. It's not a job for the faint hearted.
Plus it's not just having the child in your house etc, there are often visits to meet with family, social services, hospital appointments etc. It is also the effect on the foster carer s own family.


I would ring social services and tell them how you feel and your experiences as her childminder.

I completely agree with this but if I am honest with the social worker it will get back to the mother of the children I look after. One I will loose work and two she is not the kind of mother you want to mess with. Personally I don't trust social services....it will get back to her for sure as they will have to discuss the concerns.

[AgentTink]

I would just say to both social services and mother that as you only know mum as one of your clients it is hard for you write any reference from a personal point of view of her suitability and you are certainly not in a position to write a personal one as you don't spend time with mum and children away from your home. If you are pushed to write one I would write it from the point of how long you have know her as one of your clients and in that time she has paid on time, understood and followed your policies, and has been involved in 2 way discussions when needed in regards to her children's developments and has put her children's needs first whenever you deal with her.

[lollipop kid]

I would just say to both social services and mother that as you only know mum as one of your clients it is hard for you write any reference from a personal point of view of her suitability and you are certainly not in a position to write a personal one as you don't spend time with mum and children away from your home. If you are pushed to write one I would write it from the point of how long you have know her as one of your clients and in that time she has paid on time, understood and followed your policies, and has been involved in 2 way discussions when needed in regards to her children's developments and has put her children's needs first whenever you deal with her.

I agree with Agent Tink.

Even in the workplace, written references usually only now give details such as length of employment, number of sick days, etc. There is very little in the way of personal comments (in case of getting sued).

Therefore, I would follow what Agent Tink said and just keep any information you give to how she is as a client. You won't be the only reference they are taking on her, I'm sure.

Don't stress about it. And don't say anything in a reference that you wouldn't want to give this lady a copy of. (That's usually my rule.)

Good luck,

L

[Mouse]

I've been asked to write a few references and the hardest ones are definitely the ones you don't want to do!

Agent Tink suggestion is spot on - keep it factual, but vague and relate it only to what you know - pays on time, is interested in her child's development, is punctual etc etc.

[Simona]

I had a call today from a social worker asking for a reference for a parent of children that I look after.
The parent has lost her job so is looking to foster children as its good money (this is what she told me)and she is struggling to find another job!
There are a few things that I know and I am not too happy completing a reference unless I give true statements so what do I do as I don't want to complete it to the best of my knowledge and then the parent finds out what I have said.
On several occasions they have said to me on drop off that they couldn't cope having the children all day every day hence the reason they have sent them to nursery and childminders. She sent them to a childminder five days even though she was out of work for a year and not once did she keep them at home.
I don't doubt that she isn't a good mother but I don't believe she can cope with her own children full time so how can she cope looking after other children.
If I say no to a reference she will ask me why so it's I really don't know what to do but I am definitely not telling lies on paper just so she can look after young kids for money and send them to nursery with her own children.

it sounds like a very strange way for SS to call anyone and ask for references over the phone? and give private details on the phone?
I would get some clarification on this if I received such a call.

[JCrakers]

I wouldn't give a reference based on the fact that you don't really know her that well. There's some families that have been with me for 7.5yrs but I couldn't really say that I know the parents that well. I only see them when they arrive and drop off, we do have conversations etc but I've no idea what their like a t home.

[keohane1]

Simona it's not a phone reference, it's a paper reference. The ss was calling to ask me if I would do one.

The questions are
How is the child doing in your setting
Are their any concerns about the child
How is the relationship with the child's parents
Do you think the applicant will be able to work in partnership with a looked after child's teacher
Do you think the child you teach will be able to cope with another child in the family, what's your views
Do you have any comments that we should be aware of when considering this family to become foster parents.


So this is the questions they are asking me, mums been on my back to hurry up and do it and ss are chasing it up. I don't want to do it as ime struggling what to write but don't have the balls to tell mum i'me not doing it.

[Ripeberry]

I think they are being downright cheeky! Getting you to do their work!

[Mouse]

Simona it's not a phone reference, it's a paper reference. The ss was calling to ask me if I would do one.

The questions are
How is the child doing in your setting
Are their any concerns about the child
How is the relationship with the child's parents
Do you think the applicant will be able to work in partnership with a looked after child's teacher
Do you think the child you teach will be able to cope with another child in the family, what's your views
Do you have any comments that we should be aware of when considering this family to become foster parents.


So this is the questions they are asking me, mums been on my back to hurry up and do it and ss are chasing it up. I don't want to do it as ime struggling what to write but don't have the balls to tell mum i'me not doing it.

That's aimed at a school, not a childminder working alone. Do any of her children go to school? I'd suggest ss contact the teacher.

I would get back in touch with social services and say that the questions aren't relevant to you so you don't feel in a position to answer them. You cannot give an opinion on how the parents may get on with a teacher as you have no experience or evidence of that.

[keohane1]

That's aimed at a school, not a childminder working alone. Do any of her children go to school? I'd suggest ss contact the teacher.

I would get back in touch with social services and say that the questions aren't relevant to you so you don't feel in a position to answer them. You cannot give an opinion on how the parents may get on with a teacher as you have no experience or evidence of that.

none of her children are at school, they are 2 year old.
I think the question do you think the applicant will be able to work in partnership with a looked after child's teacher is basically asking do I have a good working partnership with her and do I think she would have a good one with a foster child's teacher at school....to be honest my answer would be I wouldn't cross her. I tried to end contracts a year ago and she went nuts to the point I kept them on, I used to be frightened because her son is always having accidents and her and the grandmother would blow everything out of proportion and make a big deal out of nothing.

[keohane1]

The hardest part about completing this is we are supposed to give an honest view, well my honest view won't be a positive one and it will back fire on me and like I said she isn't the type of person you want to cross and ime not prepared to right a load of rubbish that's not true.

[lollipop kid]

The hardest part about completing this is we are supposed to give an honest view, well my honest view won't be a positive one and it will back fire on me and like I said she isn't the type of person you want to cross and ime not prepared to right a load of rubbish that's not true.

If you have a person's name on the letter asking you for this reference, why not just call them up in confidence and tell them that, as you work alone, they are putting you in a very awkward situation and you would rather not provide this reference.

I don't think you will need to say any more than that - in fact, the less you say, probably the better by the sound of it.

Big hugs,

L

[Mouse]

none of her children are at school, they are 2 year old.
I think the question do you think the applicant will be able to work in partnership with a looked after child's teacher is basically asking do I have a good working partnership with her and do I think she would have a good one with a foster child's teacher at school....to be honest my answer would be I wouldn't cross her. I tried to end contracts a year ago and she went nuts to the point I kept them on, I used to be frightened because her son is always having accidents and her and the grandmother would blow everything out of proportion and make a big deal out of nothing.


I agree, it is very difficult for you.

I know the questions are drawing on your experience of working with the parent, but as it specifically mentions 'teachers' you can use that to your advantage - play dumb ;)


How is the child doing in your setting - the child is very settled with me and enjoys spending time here

Are their any concerns about the child - no

How is the relationship with the child's parents - we have had a working relationship for X years with no major issues

Do you think the applicant will be able to work in partnership with a looked after child's teacher - I have no experience of seeing the applicant work with a teacher, so have no way of judging this

Do you think the child you teach will be able to cope with another child in the family, what's your views - the child is happy with other children in my setting, but I am not qualified to judge how they would react with another child in the family

Do you have any comments that we should be aware of when considering this family to become foster parents - no.


Unfortunately, however you look at it you can't win :( If you don't write anything the parent will be on at you. If you write what you want to write they will have a go. If you write what they want you to write...well, your conscience won't let you do that.

[Rubybubbles]

To be honest, unless I was asked to be a reference I wouldn't do one!

[FloraDora]

I was a reference for someone when they first fostered and then adopted. She asked me first if she could put my name down as a reference.
I would imagine she has put your name down as a character reference without telling you. Which is why SS has contacted you, though mine were through email contact not phone.
I would talk to mum about if she put your name down as a reference, then using Agent Tinks suggestion say you don't feel you know her well enough personally. Leave it up to her then to inform SS of the reasons why she is providing them with another referee. That way you can't be blamed for anything that may or may not have been said.

[LilMisConfused]

You need to be really careful here - I know that in business you are not legally allowed to give a negative reference, if you don't want to give a positive one then you refuse a reference request. Not sure if the same would apply here though with it being social services. I wouldn't be worried about social services breaching your confidentiality - I would have thought they have very strict rules in that regard and if they did breech you would definitely have grounds to take them up on that. I have done a reference for people adopting in the past and it was quite clear that they never saw what I had put.
I would maybe go for ringing the contact from social services and just chatting briefly through it with them without giving any specific details - hopefully they will pick up that you are uncomfortable doing it and offer a helpful solution (as well as maybe reading into why that might be - which to be honest would be a good thing!) I'm sure it won't be the first time they have encountered something like that.
Also, just to mention - it might not be that she wanted you to be a reference, but they have decided to take one from you. The people I did a reference for weren't expecting me to be asked for one, but social services tend to be quite comprehensive when considering who to leave in charge of children in their authorities care. (And rightly so!)

[lizduncan72]

We are currently going through the adoption process and haven't been told what was written in our references, just that they were all ok so hopefully it would be the same for you and she wouldn't find out what you said if you did decide to do it