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smurfette
23-02-2015, 12:25 PM
I have a 3 year old one day a week who will deliberately vomit when eating .. Doesn't matter what I give her it's all the foods I have given her in the past (she has been with me for a year and a half) she will eat a few bites very happily then she will just decide that's it.. Start to cry ,
Vomit it up and ask to go bathroom to spit out. Mum just laughs and says she is a monkey but to me that is a really bad habit. She did it last week and I got cross with her and now she is getting worked up before lunch. Today I gave her a hug and told her that it was beans and toast which she likes and we would do painting later and showed her the new paint stamps I bought: I then read them stories through lunch to distract and jolly her along but it still happened. I know for sure she is doing it on purpose it's obviously a control thing. I cleaned up most of it but made her get a wipe and clean up a bit , harsh maybe but I wanted her to see that it was yucky! Will talk to mum about it when she picks up again. I suspect with the going to the bathroom thing that maybe they are playing it cool but allowing her to spit it out which in my opinion isn't going to work

I did have one in the past who did this and being firm with her worked but I had her more often.

Any advice / links I can give mum?

lollipop kid
23-02-2015, 12:35 PM
I have a 3 year old one day a week who will deliberately vomit when eating .. Doesn't matter what I give her it's all the foods I have given her in the past (she has been with me for a year and a half) she will eat a few bites very happily then she will just decide that's it.. Start to cry ,
Vomit it up and ask to go bathroom to spit out. Mum just laughs and says she is a monkey but to me that is a really bad habit. She did it last week and I got cross with her and now she is getting worked up before lunch. Today I gave her a hug and told her that it was beans and toast which she likes and we would do painting later and showed her the new paint stamps I bought: I then read them stories through lunch to distract and jolly her along but it still happened. I know for sure she is doing it on purpose it's obviously a control thing. I cleaned up most of it but made her get a wipe and clean up a bit , harsh maybe but I wanted her to see that it was yucky! Will talk to mum about it when she picks up again. I suspect with the going to the bathroom thing that maybe they are playing it cool but allowing her to spit it out which in my opinion isn't going to work

I did have one in the past who did this and being firm with her worked but I had her more often.

Any advice / links I can give mum?

Wow - that's just incredible and very shocking!!!

Three things occur to me instantly:

1. I'd do a record of concerns listing each time she's done this and the parent's response. (It's been going on a while, so I may also seek further advice on this from either my Development Officer, or even an informal call to the NSPCC just to talk through your concerns. Warning: If they ask you to escalate this - YOU need to call Social Services, not them. Otherwise you will fall foul of Ofsted and this will go on your 'history'.)

2. I'd invoke my sickness policy so that after each episode of vomiting, she has to stay off for 48 hours. (I know you only have her for one day a week, and this won't be that effective, but at least it would get the message through to her folks that this is just not normal/acceptable.)

3. I'd have Mum or Dad (or both) in for a chat (without the child present) and try to get to the root of why she is doing this. Does Mum have an eating disorder, for example? I'd explain to them that you just don't understand how on earth you are going to get this child school-ready if she continues doing this???!!!

Good luck with this one. I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks of this.

Sending you hugs,

L

JCrakers
23-02-2015, 12:53 PM
I would have a word with the parents as this isn't 'normal' behaviour. Child Bulimia is quite rare but it can happen. Children making themselves sick on purpose after eating.

Or it could be that she's got into a habit of doing it. Maybe she's been make to eat something and worked out that by being sick she didn't have to eat it. Now its become a habit which needs addressing. Either way Id flag it up as a concern because it needs addressing in a sensitive way as not to make it worse.

smurfette
23-02-2015, 01:02 PM
Thanks guys appreciate the support I am getting kind of stressed with it! I am in Ireland so we don't have Ofsted and that .. However the thing about mum may possibly be true.. Mum
Is in weight watchers even though she is only about 7-8 stone! She is trying to get pregnant and I think put on a lot of weight before but I can't see how she needs to lose any! I would say though it's more likely she has seen she got a reaction in the past and is playing on it:: to me it's pure manipulation and I don't think a child who is just turning three really knows to ask to go to the bathroom to be sick unless that's what has been suggested in the past. The last day she did it I let her go as she is toilet training and I thought she needed a wee and I followed her in to see her trying to puke into toilet!

I put her in the kitchen ( we were in dining room and I could see and hear her) and when we were done and she had calmed down I gave her back her lunch and she did eat it. I feel if I had her more often I wouldn't put up with the nonsense and could probably get through to her but yes it's been every day I have had her the last two weeks (last week I had her four days and we had similar issues most days) also mum and dad are soft and will collect her at four and feed her again probably whereas I would be of the school of thought.. You vomited deliberately, nothing Til next meal!

lollipop kid
23-02-2015, 01:04 PM
I would have a word with the parents as this isn't 'normal' behaviour. Child Bulimia is quite rare but it can happen. Children making themselves sick on purpose after eating.

Or it could be that she's got into a habit of doing it. Maybe she's been make to eat something and worked out that by being sick she didn't have to eat it. Now its become a habit which needs addressing. Either way Id flag it up as a concern because it needs addressing in a sensitive way as not to make it worse.

Hopefully there's a health professional the parents could speak to? Just a thought. Agree with JCrakers. Needs addressing soon - and sensitively.

xx

L

smurfette
23-02-2015, 01:05 PM
Hopefully there's a health professional the parents could speak to? Just a thought. Agree with JCrakers. Needs addressing soon - and sensitively. xx L
Yeah I think I will tell mum to talk to health visitor .. / public health nurse.

lollipop kid
23-02-2015, 01:14 PM
Yeah I think I will tell mum to talk to health visitor .. / public health nurse.

Just to cover yourself, keep a record of the concerns anyway, and then also keep a record of when you suggested Mum should speak to a Health Professional and record the outcome of that (if she tells you). I would defo ask for an outcome and something in writing from the Health Professional if she offers Mum any guidance to follow. (You should have a copy as well, just for consistency.)

Good luck!

L

newbie
23-02-2015, 01:22 PM
I also have a 3 year old that currently does this! Me and her mum have found it is a control thing from LO and it's when SHE decides she has had enough to eat or doesn't fancy what is on her plate!!!! The recent time she did it I implemented my sickness policy and refused to have her for 48 hours. I have explained to mum that I will do this EVERYTIME her daughter does it! Mum is now being a lot firmer at home with it so fingers crossed it will stop.

k1rstie
23-02-2015, 01:22 PM
Sounds very stressful for you.

Is there a particular food she would like? Have you asked her what she would like ( from your normal menu), and she help you prepare it. She may then feel ownership of it.

If mum as been observed by child making herself sick, dad may not know about it, but he may have his suspicions.

Ripeberry
23-02-2015, 01:47 PM
Most kids and people hate being sick! Weird habit to have and as everyone else said, log it as a concern. Also it can't be good for her tooth enamel as the acids will eat away at the teeth very quickly. In time she'll be losing more than just a meal!

KatieFS
23-02-2015, 03:12 PM
Agree with all the comments, this would be a concern and I'd be recording everything. Do speak to parent and your la support worker. This could be safeguarding issue?

smurfette
23-02-2015, 05:03 PM
Is it really that unusual guys? Second time I have seen it in about a year!

Had a chat with mum, she says she doesn't puke at home just spits it out but she usually gives her the choice between two dishes and then says she must eat whichever she picks. Says she insists she eats it (I am a bit confused so because she pukes if I insist she doesn't spit it out and eats it) she also said maybe she was full as she ate a big breakfast. I am happy to accept that maybe the case but she needs to say that not spit out! (She is well able!)

Mum also said they have eating issues with older sister who has cystic fibrosis .. Though she has been good lately.. Reckon maybe that's where it comes from.. Wouldn't take much for her to remember older sis doing it and getting attention for it I suppose.

lollipop kid
23-02-2015, 05:09 PM
Is it really that unusual guys? Second time I have seen it in about a year!

Had a chat with mum, she says she doesn't puke at home just spits it out but she usually gives her the choice between two dishes and then says she must eat whichever she picks. Says she insists she eats it (I am a bit confused so because she pukes if I insist she doesn't spit it out and eats it) she also said maybe she was full as she ate a big breakfast. I am happy to accept that maybe the case but she needs to say that not spit out! (She is well able!)

Mum also said they have eating issues with older sister who has cystic fibrosis .. Though she has been good lately.. Reckon maybe that's where it comes from.. Wouldn't take much for her to remember older sis doing it and getting attention for it I suppose.

I"m sorry Smurfette, but this is really ringing alarm bells with me! I would document everything, including the stuff about the big sister and what Mum says is her approach at home. Two children throwing up meals? Very, very strange!!!

Then I would get advice on this. Just read what you wrote again - it really sounds like a Safeguarding issue to me!

Good luck,


L

mama2three
23-02-2015, 05:28 PM
I have dealt with this and didn't think for one second that there was any safeguarding issue whatsoever.
The child in my case needed to know that making herself retch at the table wasn't going to have the desired effect - ie not having to eat any more then getting pudding instead! Im sure the first time or two it happened at home it was genuine as she couldn't tolerate a lot of food in her mouth at the same time. But she soon cottoned on and then realised she could do it at will to get the result she wanted. I was just matter of fact and quite stern - it was not acceptable at my dinner table..she stopped quite quickly after that ( but still does it now at home sometimes!)

smurfette
23-02-2015, 06:10 PM
I have dealt with this and didn't think for one second that there was any safeguarding issue whatsoever. The child in my case needed to know that making herself retch at the table wasn't going to have the desired effect - ie not having to eat any more then getting pudding instead! Im sure the first time or two it happened at home it was genuine as she couldn't tolerate a lot of food in her mouth at the same time. But she soon cottoned on and then realised she could do it at will to get the result she wanted. I was just matter of fact and quite stern - it was not acceptable at my dinner table..she stopped quite quickly after that ( but still does it now at home sometimes!)

I agree I don't think it is a safe guarding issue .. The older sister has cystic fibrosis and I think problems swallowing along with it I know she has been seeing a psychologist for help swallowing tablets to help with all her meds. Mum is just very busy with all the older ones physio and apts she has a rough time with it, I only have younger one so mum has some head space to herself she doesn't work. I think littler one is maybe just now noticing the attention older one gets and I do think parents could be handling it better .. I can't really believe she doesn't vomit at home! If she spits it out and I insist she vomits , mum says she doesn't vomit if she insists at home??!

I think a mix of bribery eg no pudding or missing something fun might do it... And continue being stern. Will make her change herself also like we do if they deliberately wet. Don't normally give pudding tho so don't want to have to give it regularly as she may cop it's for her benefit. Also no way am I making two meals!!

newbie
23-02-2015, 07:58 PM
I have to agree with mama2three as I am dealing with exactly the same as I said in my previous post.....I am adamant that it is just child's way of getting out of a meal as the LO I look after does it too :(. But I am super, super strict with her over it and today she ate her dinner just fine but then again it was something she really liked!!!!! I bet any money on it that the minute I give her a meal she doesn't 'FANCY' she will start gagging!!!!!

skyblue
24-02-2015, 09:40 AM
I have a child who did this too. His mum told me he started doing it at nursery. I was a bit shocked the first time he did it but when he did it again I was quite firm with him and told him that it's not something we do. He hasn't done it for me again. I also think it was a way of getting out of eating his food as he can be a bit lazy with it and often wants to be fed which I refuse to do as he is 3.

TinyTinker
24-02-2015, 10:55 AM
what happens if you put the meal in front of her, but tell her she doesn't have to eat it, you don't mind if she doesn't. Then take it away after 20 minutes and offer nothing until the next snack/meal?

JCrakers
24-02-2015, 11:31 AM
The problem with this job is you never really know what's going on at home so half the time its a guessing game.

Could it be
a.) An eating disorder that could continue to get worse
b.) a way of getting out of eating because Mum/Dad said she didn't have to eat once she'd done it once
c.) a habit that started because she started doing it and it worked
d.) Mums food anxiety from being thin herself

I think there is a big difference between spitting food out because they don't want it and something I wont tolerate here. If they don't want the food that's fair enough but we don't spit it out. I would address that. But being sick or making yourself sick after food could be a few things and without knowing the ins and outs its a tough one.
For all we know Mum could have taken her food habits (as thin as she is) and dd could have picked up on it. Mum could always be talking about wanting to lose weight etc and there could be a food issue between the both of them but without chatting to the parents its hard to say what to do.

KatieFS
24-02-2015, 12:24 PM
Well I guess we might see it differently but I do not feel making yourself sick regularly is normal or desirable behaviour.

smurfette
24-02-2015, 03:24 PM
Well I guess we might see it differently but I do not feel making yourself sick regularly is normal or desirable behaviour.

No absolutely not! Will definitely record down what's happened and what mum said for future reference in case ..
Thanks all so much for your different views
And support !!!