So, to pack-up or to feed that is the question (Any info RE allergen legislation pls!

[TabbyTuTu]

Pack-ups or shall I provide food?!

I went into this assuming I would provide food, my plan was breakfast, snacks and lunch preferring to have dinner with my family after minded hours. attending courses locally I found out at least 75% of minders get mindees to come with pack-ups. Since the new legislation came in the ones that did provide food all seem to go down the pack-up route saying that the new rules are more paperwork and hassle..

So, I for one would still like to provide food. I enjoy cooking and will need to feed myself and my two year old anyway. As far as I can work out the new rules mean I need to create a menu and stick to it, highlighting allergens found in all food - Assume in regards to snacks I can just list all snacks and allergens in them? Can I batch cook and defrost? Surely there are still rules you need to follow in regards to pack-ups too?

Edit: Pack-ups equal packed lunches. My husband gets wound up when I call them pack-ups!

[moggy]

Pack-ups or shall I provide food?!
...As far as I can work out the new rules mean I need to create a menu and stick to it, highlighting allergens found in all food - Assume in regards to snacks I can just list all snacks and allergens in them? Can I batch cook and defrost? Surely there are still rules you need to follow in regards to pack-ups too?

Edit: Pack-ups equal packed lunches. My husband gets wound up when I call them pack-ups!

I need to create a menu and stick to it- not true, you can be as flexible as you like. It is not about telling parents in advance what they are going to eat.

highlighting allergens found in all food- IF ASKED you need to be able to say what was in what the child ate- ie: 'what allergens were in the spag bol little Johnnie ate last night?'

Can I batch cook and defrost- yes

Surely there are still rules you need to follow in regards to pack-ups too- Yes, If you have a child with a dairy allergy and child sits next to them helpfully sharing their yogurt you have a big problem!! You have no idea what they are bringing into your house!

So many myths out there already! It has been discussed at length here back in Nov/Dec too.

Allergy and intolerance: guidance for businesses | food.gov.uk (http://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/allergy-guide)
Allergen information for loose foods (pdf 2MB)

I keep note in daily diary of what child eats ('cheese roll, cucumber, yogurt' or 'macaroni cheese, peas and carrots' etc)
I tell parents to ask me IF they need to know what allergens a child ate on a particular day.
I know what I put in my regular recipes
I know what brands I buy (so i can look up ingredients if needed)
I know what allergies my children have- EYFS requirement already

We are not a cafe.
We do not get strangers walking in off the street ordering a muffin and then having a reaction because they didn't tell us they were allergic to gluten.
The emphasis in all this is on the customer ASKING for the information and us being able to give it IF ASKED.

[Mouse]

I provide all lunch, snacks and drinks.

I keep an updated record of any allergies the children have and avoid those foods. I give parents a copy of my 4 week menu plan, but explain that this can change and is only a guide. In my diary I keep a record of food and drinks I have provided throughout each day. I tell parents that if they want to know about any allergens in the food they can ask and I will give them the details.

Since the new rules came in I do look more carefully at the allergens in food, to make myself aware, but I don't keep a record of them. I just know that I could find them if parents asked. I don't know if I'm missing something major, but I haven't found it more work.

[FloraDora]

Brilliantly said Moggy. I give weekly menus in advance to parents via online system too - so they should know what their child is going to / has eaten.
I did the allergen course so I know about them and that is it. No reference on my menus. I don't have any LO's with allergies - but if they were to start then I know exactly what has been consumed, it is written down daily. All our food is home made so I don't have many packets to consult either really. Ofsted perfectly happy with this, but she only glanced, teaching and learning was more her focus.

I think that if all children have a packed lunch then I would have to monitor it, keep it cool and sort the lunch box envy discussions. I hated being the lunch box police for the parents who continually put in a packet of crisps and a whispa bar with coke at school so I didn't want to get involved now.
The parents can feed them what they like when not with me, but I like to be in control of what they are eating here...I then know it is healthy.

[TabbyTuTu]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear, thank you! I originally thought it was what you said Moggy based on what I read before the legislation came into force, unfortunately I listen to other people too much. I wonder why minders in my locale think it is a bigger change than it is?

[moggy]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear, thank you! I originally thought it was what you said Moggy based on what I read before the legislation came into force, unfortunately I listen to other people too much. I wonder why minders in my locale think it is a bigger change than it is?

There was a lot of scaremongering gossip on the subject in Nov/Dec on Facebook etc and a lot of people got carried away and did not investigate it themselves, they just jumped to conclusions. I think LAs/Env Health did not communicate it well either or do much to help those confused CMers.

[k1rstie]

I thinks weekly or monthly menu could be hard to follow allergen wise.


What if dolmio sauce s on offer the first week, then Ragu the second, and on the third week Lloyd Grossmans is on offer. All are pasta sauces, but could contain different ingredients, so could have different allergens.

Pizza Hut, for example, will get their supplies from their suppliers only, so will know exactly what's in them. The manager will not shop around for the best value in tesco.

[FloraDora]

I thinks weekly or monthly menu could be hard to follow allergen wise.


What if dolmio sauce s on offer the first week, then Ragu the second, and on the third week Lloyd Grossmans is on offer. All are pasta sauces, but could contain different ingredients, so could have different allergens.

Pizza Hut, for example, will get their supplies from their suppliers only, so will know exactly what's in them. The manager will not shop around for the best value in tesco.


One of the reasons why we make everything from scratch with fresh ingredients - cheaper too.

[rickysmiths]

The only thing I do that is different is that I have created an Allergen folder for the reasons FloraDora has given.

I shop in different shops and buy different brands so in order to keep track I now keep labels off products or photocopy them and I just mark on the record of food for the day which I jot in my diary and always have, which brand I have used. This is just in case I am asked for information.


I think it would be more difficult to control if parents provide food because you will never know what is in it.

[natlou82]

I also have an allergen folder. Regular meals are in here with the allergens shown and I also put in labels if I give the children something new or like others have said buy a different brand. With the babies I write in their diary what they've eaten and note the allergens. Tbh it doesn't take that long and to me it is still preferable to pack ups :-)

[bunyip]

TTT, if you wish to continue providing fod, then do so. Especially as the new regulations affect us equally whether we are providing food or asking parents to sent it in from home.

Those 75% of local CMs you mention who get mindees to bring pack-up are not avoiding the new laws: they are breaking them. :panic: They are also surrendering control of the quality, chill chain, infection control, allergen content, etc.

I've checked this with my local EHO and the FSA. We remain responsible for all food stored and/or served at our setting/premises, irrespective of where it came from. If a parent sends pack-up or even a birthday cake we should, strictly speaking, expect them to provide us with a list of ingredients in respect of possible allergen content. The parents are, to all intents and purposes, our "suppliers" whether or not we buy the food or just serve it to the mindees. Children easily exchange food or pick up somebody else's, and some allergens can produce ill effects without the person so much as touching the allergen.

Before anyone tells me this is bonkers, please remember that the law never had to make sense, only to be followed.

[Mouse]

TTT, if you wish to continue providing fod, then do so. Especially as the new regulations affect us equally whether we are providing food or asking parents to sent it in from home.

Those 75% of local CMs you mention who get mindees to bring pack-up are not avoiding the new laws: they are breaking them. :panic: They are also surrendering control of the quality, chill chain, infection control, allergen content, etc.

I've checked this with my local EHO and the FSA. We remain responsible for all food stored and/or served at our setting/premises, irrespective of where it came from. If a parent sends pack-up or even a birthday cake we should, strictly speaking, expect them to provide us with a list of ingredients in respect of possible allergen content. The parents are, to all intents and purposes, our "suppliers" whether or not we buy the food or just serve it to the mindees. Children easily exchange food or pick up somebody else's, and some allergens can produce ill effects without the person so much as touching the allergen.

Before anyone tells me this is bonkers, please remember that the law never had to make sense, only to be followed.

The granny of one of my mindees often sends cakes that she's made. I've asked her to list the ingredients for me, so each time she sends a batch she puts in a list of what she's used. I still feel a bit doubtful about it as I'm relying on her giving me the correct info....but the cakes are delicious and I don't want her to stop sending them!!

[lisbet]

The granny of one of my mindees often sends cakes that she's made. I've asked her to list the ingredients for me, so each time she sends a batch she puts in a list of what she's used. I still feel a bit doubtful about it as I'm relying on her giving me the correct info....but the cakes are delicious and I don't want her to stop sending them!!

The best sort of example of working in partnership with families! :laughing: