Given notice [Archive] - Childminding Forum

halor

15-01-2015, 06:29 PM

lollipop kid

15-01-2015, 08:45 PM

I've had 1 year old from September, it's been hard work settling her as she suffered from separation anxiety. I persevered and have bent over backwards. I've got a lovely bond with the child now and parents (who aren't together) have both said what a change they've seen in her and how pleased they are.

Since September my daughter has been ill twice and I've been ill twice, I'm not normally closed as much as that but these things happen. The mum has just given me 4 weeks notice as she is taking the child elsewhere where she thinks there may be less sickness as they don't have children of their own. She is worried as still fairly new in her job and she has gotten in trouble for being late because of having to sort out alternate care.

I know o shouldn't take it personally but I'm so gutted. I've tried so hard to settle the little girl and have done lots of work to bring her out of herself. Unfortunately she is my only full time child.

Like I said, I know it's not personal but I couldn't help but burst into tears after she left :-(

Hi, I didn't want to read and run. My heart goes out to you, but look on it as a lesson that you're operating a service that is designed to help you cover the costs of things you need for your own family (regardless of how attached you get to the families or children you look after). You are working to support your own family first and foremost.

I hope this experience helps you put your own needs into perspective. Don't be too hard on yourself. You had to put your family's needs first re. the sickness, and that's what you did. Don't ever do anything different! Who knows how it will work out with the next children?

I hope you took a deposit of 4 week's money up front and have had the parents pay in advance so it doesn't hit you too hard. Don't forget to take any unused holiday off their deposit for (you should be due at least 1/4 of your annual leave allocation - so if that's 20 days, then you're due 5 days holiday pay for the period worked) as well as 1/4 of your bank holidays allocation (so an additional 2 days). If you don't do this already, then I strongly suggest you incorporate something like this into your new contracts.

Also, I'd recommend putting into your contracts that parents should allow you one week of paid sick leave in any one contract year (which you reserve the right to use for any instances where your own children are ill).

Good luck with everything. PM me if I can help further.

Sending you a big hug.

All the best,

L

halor

15-01-2015, 08:53 PM

Thanks lollipop. It was 6 days in total that we had, some of that my daughter was in hospital. I think mum will soon find that all childminders have families and people do become ill or something happens.

I'm a bit too soft hearted and it came as a bit of a shock. Especially as they have sung my praises.

Onwards and upwards, every cloud has a silver lining. I just have to wait to see what the lining is. Thanks for your message, I needed to vent and only other childminders will understand xx

Maza

15-01-2015, 10:34 PM

It's rubbish when we get given notice isn't it? In this job it is so hard not to take it personally. At least you can hold your head up high and say that you have done a wonderful job for the child, and that is what you are paid for. I have come to realise that no matter how wonderful the parents think we are they will drop us without a second thought when they need to - it really is just a business arrangement to most parents. Hope you get someone new soon. x

Wow lollipop, I don't have any of those things written into my contracts!

halor

15-01-2015, 11:09 PM

natlou82

16-01-2015, 06:42 AM

That's such a shame especially when LO is so settled with you. Have you had a chat with Mum about this and explained there's no guarantee with other minders that the same thing won't happen again? And it really makes no difference whether you have your own children or not, mindees often bring illness into the setting that can be past onto the childminder. Because they have been so pleased with you and the little girl so happy why would they take a chance in a new minder where they might have other issues?? There's no logic to me. Good luck whatever the outcome :-)

smurfette

16-01-2015, 07:26 AM

lollipop kid

16-01-2015, 08:56 AM

Thanks maza, you guys have made me feel better. The child was sick for over a week so think this has also affected things as she really has been late a few times. I can see her point but think she is being a bit silly and flippant to believe that any minder never has to have a day off for some reason. My other half said I'm best rid if that's going to be her attitude.

Oh well, at least I might be able to catch up with things whilst I'm looking for another little one :-)

I read something today that made me think of you:

"Giving up on a goal because of a setback is like slashing your other 3 tyres because you got a flat"

Use the time to look at your contracts and policies and build stuff in to make life easier for you, your business, and your family moving forwards. It's the little setbacks like this one that make you a stronger childminder in my honest opinion!

I read other posts advising you to chat to mum - I've found that while this might be OK for a while, once the relationship has broken down once, any little thing could set her off in future and do you really want to be made to feel this bad again? (Sometimes it's like putting an Elastoplast on a broken leg.)

Keep us posted on the outcome, whatever way you decide to go.

Good luck and a big hug,

L

halor

16-01-2015, 09:03 AM

Lollipop, that is such a good way to look at it. Thank you for the support, childminders are the only people who understand how much hard work we all put into the children.

I'm a firm believer in fate and silver linings but I'm good at giving other people advice and not myself.

The little girl I look after isn't the easiest so maybe a child will come along who's a dream.......hopefully x

bunyip

16-01-2015, 11:29 AM

I agree with the gist of previous posts. Keep your chin up and don't take it personally. :group hug:

This is the mum's failing and not yours. I do get quite cross about this kind of stupidity. How on doG's Earth can anyone go through life believing they, their children, their CM, or their CM's children will never get ill? :huh:

It may be worth you trying to chat with mum. OTOH, there's sense in what lollipop says: patching up a broken down CM-client relationship can sometimes be no more than a temporary fix until mum finds the next thing to whinny about. It's a valid point, and only you can know if it's worth trying or write this one down on your "CM's list of lucky escapes."

I think the critical issue in this case is that you appear to have a client who sees their CM as a softer target than her boss. Unless of course, she is too thick to be aware of her employment rights, she simply lacks the backbone to stand up for them, despite having the full weight of law behind her.

All employees have the legal right to unpaid leave "to attend to unexpected problems with dependants, for example, where child minding arrangements break down. A dependant includes anyone who reasonably relies on the employee."

"People who have worked for their employer for one year have the right to unpaid parental leave to care for their children.. You are entitled to 18 weeks' unpaid leave before your child is five, or if your child is disabled, before they are 18."

[The bits in quotation marks " " are taken directly from Citizens Advice Bureau information.]

Any employer who attempts to deny these rights, or discriminate against her (e.g. by using it as an excuse to give her reduced promotion/training opportunities, etc.) is in breach of employment law. They can also be found in breach of The Equality Act if they are trying to prevent a mother taking unpaid leave in relation to her children (which is handy, cos there is no legal maximum fine/compensation a judge can order in Equality cases. :thumbsup: ) Oh, and whatever it might say in her contract is irrelevant. Noone can write or sign away anyone's statutory rights (not even their own) in a contract.

lollipop kid

16-01-2015, 11:40 AM

Hi, just to add that in my experience, a parent giving you 4 weeks' notice means that they made the decision some time ago. Since then, they have probably visited x number of other childminders/nurseries until they have found one they want to send their child to. They have probably now signed a contract with this other party, paid a deposit for their child to start on x date, and perhaps have even had a settling in visit.

Therefore, try speaking to the mum by all means, but don't let her beat you up with it OR make the last 4 weeks her child is with you difficult. Also, be on your guard about any accidents this child might have with you in the last 4 weeks - you could risk the mother's wrath/an Ofsted complaint/failure to pay on the grounds of the accident etc. Any excuse!

Yes, I've been on the receiving end of bad behaviour from parents in the last few weeks of a contract, so I am ready for anything. I treat each day as a day when I might have an unannounced inspection, as you never know when a disgruntled parent (usually the ones who have only been with you a short time) might make that call to Ofsted.

Thankfully, most of my parents stay with me for years, recommend me to all of their friends, and send the little brothers/sisters, too when the bigger ones have moved on - these are the kind of parents you want, and who make each day one you love to wake up to.

Onwards and upwards,

L

halor

16-01-2015, 12:35 PM

Thanks guys, I was off the end of last week as wasn't well, they thought I might have been having a stroke but it was just a horrendous migraine.

The mum had decided at the weekend and contacted them. It's funny because she chose me over everyone else and then because of illness she is going to someone else and will also be paying more.

The parents aren't together and there may be a bit of a custody battle. I had told both of them that I couldn't and wouldn't get involved. I'm not sure if this is part of it.

I'm behind on my paperwork so this will at least give me the chance to catch up. I'm a pretty chilled out person and will bend over backwards for parents. However, my family come first and that will always be the way.

Thanks guys, you've all made me feel so much better xx

halor

16-01-2015, 12:37 PM

I'm not going to try and patch things, there would always be that stress when anyone in the house for ill the threat of notice given x

Maza

16-01-2015, 02:24 PM

I'm not going to try and patch things, there would always be that stress when anyone in the house for ill the threat of notice given x

I was just going to say, if you did manage to keep this mum on then you would be so paranoid/stressed if you or your children were ill and had to close again. I think it's best to draw a line under this one. Do not feel bad for taking the time off when you needed to. xxx

natlou82

17-01-2015, 07:29 AM

I'm not going to try and patch things, there would always be that stress when anyone in the house for ill the threat of notice given x

After reading what others have said I think you're right on this one. Onwards and upwards - good luck :-)

Simona

17-01-2015, 10:21 AM

I've had 1 year old from September, it's been hard work settling her as she suffered from separation anxiety. I persevered and have bent over backwards. I've got a lovely bond with the child now and parents (who aren't together) have both said what a change they've seen in her and how pleased they are.

Since September my daughter has been ill twice and I've been ill twice, I'm not normally closed as much as that but these things happen. The mum has just given me 4 weeks notice as she is taking the child elsewhere where she thinks there may be less sickness as they don't have children of their own. She is worried as still fairly new in her job and she has gotten in trouble for being late because of having to sort out alternate care.

I know o shouldn't take it personally but I'm so gutted. I've tried so hard to settle the little girl and have done lots of work to bring her out of herself. Unfortunately she is my only full time child.

Like I said, I know it's not personal but I couldn't help but burst into tears after she left :-(

I am sure you will have received a lot of advice on this issue.

I can totally feel for you and how gutted you must feel...that parent is maybe also under pressure as employers are piling it on their employees and mum may feel she cannot take time off
In addition...what about the child who seemed very happy and settled with you?...what a shame they have to start settling in again and putting her through stress again.

It may be worth reflecting on having back-up-cover in future with other CMs ...Cms you know and can trust

also remember this is how the Childcare Minister is selling agencies to parents...or voters....agencies will always have back up cover for their members when they are sick so parents do not miss going to work

I don't agree that parents do want someone else to look after their child when their CM is sick but this is the way it is going and ....of course...nurseries do not have that problem

I hope you can sort this out...good luck!

bunyip

17-01-2015, 11:47 AM

It may be worth reflecting on having back-up-cover in future with other CMs ...Cms you know and can trust

also remember this is how the Childcare Minister is selling agencies to parents...or voters....agencies will always have back up cover for their members when they are sick so parents do not miss going to work

I don't agree that parents do want someone else to look after their child when their CM is sick but this is the way it is going and ....of course...nurseries do not have that problem

I hope you can sort this out...good luck!

I agree about back-up cover, though it's rarely likely to be 100% satisfactory since CMs shouldn't assume they can go above ratio for someone else's emergency.

I tell parents that the local nurseries might well have fewer sickness closures/exclusions than the average CM. I also warn them that their lo will probably be more poorly more often, as local nurseries blithely take in sick children whilst discouraging poorly staff from taking time off work.

The back-up agencies could provide was always going to give them a trading advantage over independent CMs. But it's still appalling that the regime is constantly manipulating childcare regulations as they seek to undermine and reduce workers' legitimate employment rights.

We really do need to encourage parents to stand up for their rights at work, and not let ourselves become doormats for those who refuse to stand up to autocratic bosses. :mad:

lollipop kid

17-01-2015, 12:12 PM

I agree about back-up cover, though it's rarely likely to be 100% satisfactory since CMs shouldn't assume they can go above ratio for someone else's emergency.

I tell parents that the local nurseries might well have fewer sickness closures/exclusions than the average CM. I also warn them that their lo will probably be more poorly more often, as local nurseries blithely take in sick children whilst discouraging poorly staff from taking time off work.

The back-up agencies could provide was always going to give them a trading advantage over independent CMs. But it's still appalling that the regime is constantly manipulating childcare regulations as they seek to undermine and reduce workers' legitimate employment rights.

We really do need to encourage parents to stand up for their rights at work, and not let ourselves become doormats for those who refuse to stand up to autocratic bosses. :mad:

Totally agree with Bunyip. I try to have 3 x back-up childminders that the children and I know from Playgroup (and more importantly, they know the children that those childminders look after, as well - you can't say that of Agency back-ups!). There has been at least one occasion when I have called my back-up CMs one after the other until I've found a space for each of my mindees should the parents need it. However, my parents chose to take the day off with their child(ren), but appreciated that I'd gone to the effort for them.

It's still good practice, though. As I said, it was very much appreciated and has probably helped my parent relationships no end.

Hope that helps,

L

Simona

17-01-2015, 12:27 PM

I agree about back-up cover, though it's rarely likely to be 100% satisfactory since CMs shouldn't assume they can go above ratio for someone else's emergency.

I tell parents that the local nurseries might well have fewer sickness closures/exclusions than the average CM. I also warn them that their lo will probably be more poorly more often, as local nurseries blithely take in sick children whilst discouraging poorly staff from taking time off work.

The back-up agencies could provide was always going to give them a trading advantage over independent CMs. But it's still appalling that the regime is constantly manipulating childcare regulations as they seek to undermine and reduce workers' legitimate employment rights.

We really do need to encourage parents to stand up for their rights at work, and not let ourselves become doormats for those who refuse to stand up to autocratic bosses. :mad:

Having a back-up-cm does NOT guarantee that cm can offer care in case of our sickness because of the ratio...totally agree...they are useful in case of an unexpected emergency which is different from being sick
It is, however, a point of discussion with parents when we sell our services to them and explain how this works

In addition parents MUST have an emergency plan in place should their CM be ill or should the setting close for whatever reasons

I think it is a 2 way system and part of working in partnership...cms do not go sick at the drop of a hat, parents must understand the benefits of having their child with us

I would like to see in practice how agency cms will be able to con parents in guaranteeing alternative cover with another agency cm for sickness and holidays?
Me thinks this is a ploy and a deceiving one but we can only wait and see when agencies are up and running

also agree that parents must stand up for their rights at work...
one is being able to care for their children when they are sick or unable to have care without repercussions.

Employers are constantly told by the govt to be 'flexible' but they keep turning the screw on parents...who in turn blame us for being expensive and not flexible enough and having to stay at home as the system is too rigid and complicated

bunyip

17-01-2015, 02:44 PM

Employers are constantly told by the govt to be 'flexible' but they keep turning the screw on parents...who in turn blame us for being expensive and not flexible enough and having to stay at home as the system is too rigid and complicated

As for "expensive"....
Parents ask me, "why are CMs' fees so high around here, compared to the next town?"
I answer: "Because we provide a high standard of care and there are so very few of us."
I then go onto ask them why they think there are so few of us.
They look puzzled and shake their heads, so I tell them: "it's probably because our fees are too low to make any sort of a living out of CMing." :p

As for "flexible"....
isn't it odd how the authorities would like us to provide flexible care, but refuse to provide 2/3/4yo funding for flexible arrangements? eg. Minimum 2 days a week; minimum 3 hours in a day; maximum 10 hours in a day; not paid for care after 7pm; not paid for holiday care.....etc......etc......etc." :mad:

lollipop kid

17-01-2015, 03:11 PM

As for "expensive"....
Parents ask me, "why are CMs' fees so high around here, compared to the next town?"
I answer: "Because we provide a high standard of care and there are so very few of us."
I then go onto ask them why they think there are so few of us.
They look puzzled and shake their heads, so I tell them: "it's probably because our fees are too low to make any sort of a living out of CMing." :p

As for "flexible"....
isn't it odd how the authorities would like us to provide flexible care, but refuse to provide 2/3/4yo funding for flexible arrangements? eg. Minimum 2 days a week; minimum 3 hours in a day; maximum 10 hours in a day; not paid for care after 7pm; not paid for holiday care.....etc......etc......etc." :mad:

I love this - where I live, parents are happy to pay £10 or £15 per hour for their cleaners (for however many hours per day two or three times a week). Nice to know that the lady who looks after what goes in their bin earns more per hour than the lady who looks after their child (and uses what they are paid to ensure the child has a wide range of activities, resources to stimulate them for each stage of their development, oh and, if like me, pays for all of the healthy, nutritious food that their child eats each day out of their own pocket.) :laughing:

I also love the "flexibility" angle of the paid for funding but why is it only available to cover 38 weeks per year, when most parents I know work 47 weeks in the year.

Simona

17-01-2015, 03:33 PM

I love this - where I live, parents are happy to pay £10 or £15 per hour for their cleaners (for however many hours per day two or three times a week). Nice to know that the lady who looks after what goes in their bin earns more per hour than the lady who looks after their child (and uses what they are paid to ensure the child has a wide range of activities, resources to stimulate them for each stage of their development, oh and, if like me, pays for all of the healthy, nutritious food that their child eats each day out of their own pocket.) :laughing:

I also love the "flexibility" angle of the paid for funding but why is it only available to cover 38 weeks per year, when most parents I know work 47 weeks in the year.

You can offer the 570 hours of so called 'free education and childcare'...not sure which one it is as the govt keeps changing the word... over 48 weeks, if you wish, and do not have to comply with the term time schedule but....if you divide 570 hrs by 48 weeks for example...a parent would only have 11 hours per week...just enough to run to the bus stop and back I think?

See DfE guidance p9 A2.4
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/351592/early_education_and_childcare_statutory_guidance_2 014.pdf

£10/£15 is what cleaners get to mop floors and look at what goes down the 'pan'...sorry couldn't help it!:D
We certainly have our priorities right....NOT!!

Bunyip...LAs can try to impose their rules on us but unfortunately they are not in charge of our businesses...nor do they dictate to nurseries and preschools and in the guidance the DfE states clearly LAs must not interfere with our businesses.

I think our childcare minister has been told very clearly this week that the cost of childcare is rising due to their policies: keep funding low means parents pay for the rising cost of childcare outside the 'free childcare'...fact and not rocket science.

So he has now announced that LAs must look at reducing business rates for nurseries...excellent move me thinks :rolleyes:...but when I tweeted to him 'what will you do to reduce CMs costs?' ...suddenly there was no reply :eek:

I do think we need to be more vocal now...enough is enough!

lollipop kid

17-01-2015, 04:00 PM

You can offer the 570 hours of so called 'free education and childcare'...not sure which one it is as the govt keeps changing the word... over 48 weeks, if you wish, and do not have to comply with the term time schedule but....if you divide 570 hrs by 48 weeks for example...a parent would only have 11 hours per week...just enough to run to the bus stop and back I think?

See DfE guidance p9 A2.4
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/351592/early_education_and_childcare_statutory_guidance_2 014.pdf

£10/£15 is what cleaners get to mop floors and look at what goes down the 'pan'...sorry couldn't help it!:D
We certainly have our priorities right....NOT!!

Bunyip...LAs can try to impose their rules on us but unfortunately they are not in charge of our businesses...nor do they dictate to nurseries and preschools and in the guidance the DfE states clearly LAs must not interfere with our businesses.

I think our childcare minister has been told very clearly this week that the cost of childcare is rising due to their policies: keep funding low means parents pay for the rising cost of childcare outside the 'free childcare'...fact and not rocket science.

So he has now announced that LAs must look at reducing business rates for nurseries...excellent move me thinks :rolleyes:...but when I tweeted to him 'what will you do to reduce CMs costs?' ...suddenly there was no reply :eek:

I do think we need to be more vocal now...enough is enough!

Thanks, Simona,

I don't currently have a funded child, but when I had one last year, I was led to believe that the funding was only available term-time only. I'll keep this under my hat for now, and raise it with my LA the next time I have a funded child. (Mine was 3 years old - I'm not allowed any younger due to my current Ofsted grade - which is a bit sickening since I'll need to wait about 2 years under the current cycle to be reinspected, or pay £1300 or £1400 - from memory - for a reinspection with no guarantee of a better outcome).

Hey, ho - where's my mop? :laughing:

halor

17-01-2015, 04:16 PM

Hi guys, there are a few childminders in my close area but they are generally full. I state on contracts that should I have to close I do not arrange alternative care, I do however give them the details of others in the are and state which ones have met their children. One of the things I do make clear to parents is I won't close unless I absolutely have to, especially as I don't get paid when I am closed.

Unfortunately we have lost a couple of minders due to feeling like they're in a thankless job and finding it harder and harder to run their business. I've been doing this for 2 years and still feel completely lost at times x

Simona

17-01-2015, 05:12 PM

Thanks, Simona,

I don't currently have a funded child, but when I had one last year, I was led to believe that the funding was only available term-time only. I'll keep this under my hat for now, and raise it with my LA the next time I have a funded child. (Mine was 3 years old - I'm not allowed any younger due to my current Ofsted grade - which is a bit sickening since I'll need to wait about 2 years under the current cycle to be reinspected, or pay £1300 or £1400 - from memory - for a reinspection with no guarantee of a better outcome).

Hey, ho - where's my mop? :laughing:

Sorry for the deviation but this needs to be clarified: Ofsted have only suggested what a reinspection would cost....it is not in practice yet and OBC have this under their radar...the figures are mind boggling really !
You can stretch the free hours if it suits you ...no need to raise with your LA ...it is what suits you and the families

Halor....I think we are all a bit lost by the constant moving of the goal posts...keep going and there is always help when
needed !

bunyip

17-01-2015, 08:17 PM

I love this - where I live, parents are happy to pay £10 or £15 per hour for their cleaners (for however many hours per day two or three times a week). Nice to know that the lady who looks after what goes in their bin earns more per hour than the lady who looks after their child (and uses what they are paid to ensure the child has a wide range of activities, resources to stimulate them for each stage of their development, oh and, if like me, pays for all of the healthy, nutritious food that their child eats each day out of their own pocket.) :laughing:

I also love the "flexibility" angle of the paid for funding but why is it only available to cover 38 weeks per year, when most parents I know work 47 weeks in the year.

All too true.

A CM friend of mine has managed to fill the hours while some of her mindees are at preschool: by taking on the children of domestic cleaners for 2-3 hours. It says everything that they can make enough from cleaning to pay a CM and it still be worth their while. :panic:

It's the same with dog-walkers. £10ph+ with no insurance, registration, training, costs, etc. and crucially, no limit on doggy numbers (even those under 5's in doggy years). When I mention this to parents, they say, "yes, but you'd only be paying them for an hour or 2 a day." Which is fair comment until you try to ask for a tenner to do an hour with school run. :p

I'm sure you know the facts, Simona:-

Bunyip...LAs can try to impose their rules on us but unfortunately they are not in charge of our businesses...nor do they dictate to nurseries and preschools and in the guidance the DfE states clearly LAs must not interfere with our businesses.

The problem is that each LA continues to try to apply its own unfair restrictions. We may fight them, but what to do if they refuse to pay? How many CMs are in a position to take their LA to court? I haven't noticed pacey rushing to do so either: so much for a 'professional representative body'. :mad: Neither can I mind a child for free whilst the LA refuses to pay, nor tell a parent they have to pay until the LA gets round to following the rules. If I tried that, I'd lose about half my income's-worth of clients instantaneously. And how many of us can afford to do that? :(

k1rstie

17-01-2015, 08:45 PM

It's the same with dog-walkers. £10ph+ with no insurance, registration, training, costs, etc. and crucially, no limit on doggy numbers (even those under 5's in doggy years). When I mention this to parents, they say, "yes, but you'd only be paying them for an hour or 2 a day." Which is fair comment until you try to ask for a tenner to do an hour with school run. :p

:(

My childminder friend gave up childminding a few years so to become a dog walker. She says it's very similar with the dogs sulking if they do not get to sit in the car where they want!!!

Simona

17-01-2015, 09:14 PM

All too true.

A CM friend of mine has managed to fill the hours while some of her mindees are at preschool: by taking on the children of domestic cleaners for 2-3 hours. It says everything that they can make enough from cleaning to pay a CM and it still be worth their while. :panic:

It's the same with dog-walkers. £10ph+ with no insurance, registration, training, costs, etc. and crucially, no limit on doggy numbers (even those under 5's in doggy years). When I mention this to parents, they say, "yes, but you'd only be paying them for an hour or 2 a day." Which is fair comment until you try to ask for a tenner to do an hour with school run. :p

I'm sure you know the facts, Simona:-

The problem is that each LA continues to try to apply its own unfair restrictions. We may fight them, but what to do if they refuse to pay? How many CMs are in a position to take their LA to court? I haven't noticed pacey rushing to do so either: so much for a 'professional representative body'. :mad: Neither can I mind a child for free whilst the LA refuses to pay, nor tell a parent they have to pay until the LA gets round to following the rules. If I tried that, I'd lose about half my income's-worth of clients instantaneously. And how many of us can afford to do that? :(

we are going further afield in this post and I hope the OP does not mind?...that is what a forum is all about!
Bunyip....LAS will always try to impose their own conditions but it does not mean they will succeed...they did so with networks and look where we are now
no need to take them to court but you can argue back....it is the DfE guidance that matters not local petty ruling
LAs cannot refuse to pay us...another challenge the minister has launched at them this week is to pay on time
In the end conditions are putting providers off and many are now saying they ' will limit' the amount of free education they offer....about time too me thinks !

You may remember I posted the NDNA Childcare Chellenge survey a while back? It included Cms....That is where all this is coming from as the minister met in London with this group this week and launched his appeal on business rates and
asking LAS to pay on time

it was on Twitter and I know you do not follow that...we can' t have the govt say one thing and LAs deciding to go their
own way...it is what happens with Ofsted when they try to interpret the EYFS...too many agendas and too many chefs...the rest is history!

Maza

17-01-2015, 09:29 PM

Oh my word, my friend earns a FORTUNE dog walking! She does two or three walks a day and has a van full of dogs each time. She pulls up at her place (opposite mine) at 3 0'clock, has a quick cuppa and then goes to collect her children from school, job done! Evenings to herself and no paperwork. Her van absolutely stinks though. I would consider it but I really can't bear dog poo. Sorry, have really gone off on a tangent now.

bunyip

18-01-2015, 10:37 AM

we are going further afield in this post and I hope the OP does not mind?...that is what a forum is all about!
Bunyip....LAS will always try to impose their own conditions but it does not mean they will succeed...they did so with networks and look where we are now
no need to take them to court but you can argue back....it is the DfE guidance that matters not local petty ruling
LAs cannot refuse to pay us...another challenge the minister has launched at them this week is to pay on time
In the end conditions are putting providers off and many are now saying they ' will limit' the amount of free education they offer....about time too me thinks !

You may remember I posted the NDNA Childcare Chellenge survey a while back? It included Cms....That is where all this is coming from as the minister met in London with this group this week and launched his appeal on business rates and
asking LAS to pay on time

it was on Twitter and I know you do not follow that...we can' t have the govt say one thing and LAs deciding to go their
own way...it is what happens with Ofsted when they try to interpret the EYFS...too many agendas and too many chefs...the rest is history!

Not looking for a Sunday morning fuss, but how on earth do we make this fine principle work in practice without suffering loss, at least in the short-term??? :huh:

I'm 100% with you on the principle, but the practicalities are very different from the Ideal World of which you write.

Saying "LA's cannot do this, that or the other" does not alter the fact that they do do exactly that.

If I breach the rules of the LA, even with right and 'should be' on my side, the LA stops the payment. I cannot tell my bank manager that my current balance is really £1500 better than s/he says it is, because the "LAs cannot refuse to pay us" when the LA has done just that.

The principle and the supposed rules are all very well, but they do no good to any CM if it means a retrospective fight to win what we're entitled to whilst we watch our incomes slump, our clients go elsewhere with their funded lo's and our businesses go down the pan. I for one have no desire to win a Pyrrhic victory over my local LA forcing them to pay funding, only to find I have no clients left for them to pay the funding on behalf of. :p

If I were to question my LA's rules/conditions, to whom should I write? Please don't tell e to raise it with the LA, as that's as much use as Ofsted's constant refrain of "refer to EYFS". If the LAs are the problem, then they're clearly the wrong place to look for the answer. Is there a particular name/job title at, say, DofE who would look into this?

I'm very angry that pacey are so reluctant to deal with this. It's my firm belief this reticence stems from their conflict of interest in having so many contracts with LAs to run CM development offices. How on Earth could they ever honestly claim to represent us against their paymasters??? :huh: I do hope that, now they are losing these DO contracts, pacey will begin to start representing CMs - when they can spare the time from selling jolly little crafts books and stickers. :angry:

Simona

19-01-2015, 07:19 PM

Not looking for a Sunday morning fuss, but how on earth do we make this fine principle work in practice without suffering loss, at least in the short-term??? :huh:

I'm 100% with you on the principle, but the practicalities are very different from the Ideal World of which you write.

Saying "LA's cannot do this, that or the other" does not alter the fact that they do do exactly that.

If I breach the rules of the LA, even with right and 'should be' on my side, the LA stops the payment. I cannot tell my bank manager that my current balance is really £1500 better than s/he says it is, because the "LAs cannot refuse to pay us" when the LA has done just that.

The principle and the supposed rules are all very well, but they do no good to any CM if it means a retrospective fight to win what we're entitled to whilst we watch our incomes slump, our clients go elsewhere with their funded lo's and our businesses go down the pan. I for one have no desire to win a Pyrrhic victory over my local LA forcing them to pay funding, only to find I have no clients left for them to pay the funding on behalf of. :p

If I were to question my LA's rules/conditions, to whom should I write? Please don't tell e to raise it with the LA, as that's as much use as Ofsted's constant refrain of "refer to EYFS". If the LAs are the problem, then they're clearly the wrong place to look for the answer. Is there a particular name/job title at, say, DofE who would look into this?

I'm very angry that pacey are so reluctant to deal with this. It's my firm belief this reticence stems from their conflict of interest in having so many contracts with LAs to run CM development offices. How on Earth could they ever honestly claim to represent us against their paymasters??? :huh: I do hope that, now they are losing these DO contracts, pacey will begin to start representing CMs - when they can spare the time from selling jolly little crafts books and stickers. :angry:

Could you give me some examples of what the LA is doing that you feel you cannot deal directly with them ?
I am not sure why they would stop funding if you are fulfilling all the criteria...grade, flexibility etc etc
I can try to take it further...without giving names of course

My thinking is that LAs need to comply with their side of the bargain with the DfE so why make our lives difficult?

My understanding is that, after years of blaming the DfE for the funding saga, the LAs are now under fire and told to stop imposing conditions by the DfE itself...the penny has dropped at last

I have raised the issue of funding with my EY team...and raised concerns about conditions...didn't get anywhere ...I was told to approach a local govt councillor if I wished.....so I have done just that.

bunyip

19-01-2015, 08:32 PM

Could you give me some examples of what the LA is doing that you feel you cannot deal directly with them ?

Examples, this information is published in the LA's "information for parents" and "information for providers".

"You can claim funded hours at a maximum of 2 providers."
"....hours [to be] taken over a minimum of 2 days per week."
"Maximum 10 hours [to be] taken in any one day."
"the funding can only be claimed for time attended between 7am-7pm."

I have dealt directly with my LA by querying all these examples of them applying conditions. In every single case, the response was very clear, and amounted to "those are the rules, take it or leave it."

Maybe I'm a complete fool, but I was very much given to understand that's just how it is. Having queried other CMs' experiences of this, from another 3 LAs (a neighbouring county and 2 nearby city councils) , it seems to be pretty universal - at least in my region.

Additionally, the LA tells us which weeks are 'funded weeks' and will not guarantee to pay for any care outside these weeks. This does not cover every week of term, but none of the 'funded weeks' fall in the school holidays. They say they may make 'discretionary' payments if a setting is closed during a 'funded week' or a child is absent during a 'funded week' if we are prepared to offer an alternative week during the holidays - but the LA does not promise/guarantee to make the payment.

The forms only allow for attendance hours Monday-Friday. I called to ask the funding team what to do on one occasion when I had a parent enquire about weekend care. The answer from the funding team was unequivocal: "we won't pay for weekend care." The potential client walked away.

Simona

19-01-2015, 10:15 PM

Examples, this information is published in the LA's "information for parents" and "information for providers".

"You can claim funded hours at a maximum of 2 providers."
"....hours [to be] taken over a minimum of 2 days per week."
"Maximum 10 hours [to be] taken in any one day."
"the funding can only be claimed for time attended between 7am-7pm."

I have dealt directly with my LA by querying all these examples of them applying conditions. In every single case, the response was very clear, and amounted to "those are the rules, take it or leave it."

Maybe I'm a complete fool, but I was very much given to understand that's just how it is. Having queried other CMs' experiences of this, from another 3 LAs (a neighbouring county and 2 nearby city councils) , it seems to be pretty universal - at least in my region.

Additionally, the LA tells us which weeks are 'funded weeks' and will not guarantee to pay for any care outside these weeks. This does not cover every week of term, but none of the 'funded weeks' fall in the school holidays. They say they may make 'discretionary' payments if a setting is closed during a 'funded week' or a child is absent during a 'funded week' if we are prepared to offer an alternative week during the holidays - but the LA does not promise/guarantee to make the payment.

The forms only allow for attendance hours Monday-Friday. I called to ask the funding team what to do on one occasion when I had a parent enquire about weekend care. The answer from the funding team was unequivocal: "we won't pay for weekend care." The potential client walked away.

Buyip...some of the conditions from your LA come from the DfE guidance itself
No 3 and 4 are correct ...however...1 and 2 are ...in my view...their own or modified to suit them

This is p 8 and 9 of the Guidance

Section A2: Flexibility
Outcome: children are able to take up their full entitlement to early education at times that best support their learning, and at times which fit with the needs of parents.
Two-, three- and four-year-olds:
To secure flexible delivery, local authorities should:
A2.1 Fund providers to deliver early education places at times and in patterns that support parents to maximise the use of their child’s place.
A2.2 Encourage providers to offer flexible packages of early education, subject to the following standards:
 No session to be longer than 10 hours
 No session to be shorter than 2.5 hours
Not before 7.00am or after 7.00pm

A2.3 As a minimum, ensure that parents are able to access their child’s early education place in the following patterns:
 5 hours per day over 3 days of the week
 3 hours per day over 5 days of the week
A2.4 Ensure that parents and providers are aware that there is no requirement for all early education places to be delivered only over 38 weeks of the year or in line with maintained school term dates.
A2.5 Enable parents to take up their child’s early education place in patterns of hours that “stretch” their child’s entitlement by taking fewer hours a week over more weeks of the year, where there is provider capacity and sufficient parental demand.
A2.6 Act as a broker between overall parental demand in the area and provider capacity, seeking to provide the maximum possible flexibility where demand exists beyond the minimum models referred to in A2.3.
A2.7 Enable children to take up a place at a provider which does not open for 38 weeks a year or for 15 hours a week where this suits parents’ needs.
A2.8 Support parents to identify providers who can offer early education places on the days and and at the times needed by the parent.
A2.9 Ensure parents are aware that the entitlement to an early education place does not offer a guarantee of a place at any one provider or a particular pattern of provision.
A2.10 Consider the impact of the educational experience and continuity of care for children when enabling children to take up their early education place at more than one provider.
A2.11 Publish their local flexible offer

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/351592/early_education_and_childcare_statutory_guidance_2 014.pdf

On the basis of that I would discuss with your LA...or write to Sam Gyimah himself...go on we know you want to!!

I don't think that any association is taking this on for us...they did about the conditions of having qualifications or belonging to a Network...but no more

Good luck and keep the pressure on :thumbsup:

bunyip

20-01-2015, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the information Simona.

It does rather look like the "no conditions" principle allows LAs to impose quite a lot of conditions after all.

Once again, regime support for childcare is really only for the "nice families" with "proper jobs" - ie. "...nine-to-fives with suitable ties..." and all the ones doing odd hours, shifts, like nurses, etc. who actually keep people alive but don't directly make enough money for big business, well, they can all go to the wall. :angry:

I'd like to think someone from pacey might pick this up and put some pressure on, on behalf of CMs and parents - but pacey have too many vested interests in cosying up to LAs and wouldn't want to rock the boat. Presumably there are still enough vested interests in the way of LA contracts for pacey to deliver services for LAs. He who pays the piper, eh....? :mad:

halor

06-02-2015, 02:07 PM

Update - I have seen an email that mum sent to dad, she has lied and said I was closed 8 times, I explained it was 4 and I have the proof. The other reason is because I've taken on 2 little girls, one of which is a 4 month old. They are with me twice a week.

Lo's mum has basically said to dad, they're not together any more, that she wants Lo in small groups and wasn't happy that sometimes I have up to 5 children including my own. This was a term only contract so my kids were only with her half hour each day after school. Other than that I have no more than 3. I've explained that no childminder can run a business with one term only child. I've got a small house so I'm limited to 5. Also explained that the childminders who work in partnership will have the ability to have a lot more children.

I feel better now that I know it's nothing I've done, dad is upset that Lo is being
Moved, especially as we got through some serious separation anxiety issues.

Thanks for everyone's replies, they made me so much better xx

smurfette

06-02-2015, 04:46 PM

[QUOTE="halor;1390673"]Update - I have seen an email that mum sent to dad, she has lied and said I was closed 8 times, I explained it was 4 and I have the proof. The other reason is because I've taken on 2 little girls, one of which is a 4 month old. They are with me twice a week. Lo's mum has basically said to dad, they're not together any more, that she wants Lo in small groups and wasn't happy that sometimes I have up to 5 children including my own. This was a term only contract so my kids were only with her half hour each day after school. Other than that I have no more than 3. I've explained that no childminder can run a business with one term only child. I've got a small house so I'm limited to 5. Also explained that the childminders who work in partnership will have the ability to have a lot more children. I feel better now that I know it's nothing I've done, dad is upset that Lo is being Moved, especially as we got through some serious separation anxiety issues. Thanks for everyone's replies, they made me so much better xx[/QUOTE
Aw Hun. Sounds like you are flogging a dead horse there . You can't win that one if she is of that mind. Most parents see
The benefit of more interaction with other little ones and we DO provide the balance of small groups with individual attention

It's an interesting one to me because there in the uk you can't casually childmind.. Here in Ireland we can and so a parent like this would place the child with a lady possibly a mother who wants just a few extra euros / few hours work. We can mind three without registering it is largely unregulated and so what I do is the exception to the rule (I have three every day) rather than the opposite with you! I am not sure how your mum will find someone to do what she wants like you say who can afford to?!

I would think this mum probably doesn't want to be at work and misses little one .. Naturally. It isn't what she hoped, little one had bad anxiety which Made mum worried and boss isn't being sympathetic. You could well find she will give up work or at least reduce it at some point. I am glad you now know it isn't you and you have the comfort of dad not being happy about it, dust yourself off and get advertising .. Hopefully the perfect family is just around the corner!

Ps always makes me laugh when parents take the hump when you take on a demanding one or one younger than theirs cos they are afraid they will lose out on attention ., they forget theirs was tiny when they started with you / refluxy/ had separation anxiety !

Ripeberry

06-02-2015, 05:46 PM

Maybe the dad could contribute to hire a nanny? Sounds like that's what they want.

halor

06-02-2015, 07:02 PM

Unfortunately she probably wouldn't agree to that, it's a shame because she doesn't really need a childminder at all s dad can care. Unfortunately she won't agree to it, they need to sort out custody rules, but obviously that's only what he said.

After I had been looking after lo for a little while, dad mentioned that mum of lo was my boss as that's how she made it sound. I quickly made sure he understood I am my own boss and this is my business, she purely pays for a service.

She definitely needs a nanny as no childminder is going to be able to accommodate all her demands. Especially thinking that up to 5 children is a big group, I don't think she understands the difference between a nanny and a childminder.

The one thing that concerns me is the lies she has told. If she starts telling all and sundry the same lies it could hurt my reputation.

Kiddleywinks

07-02-2015, 10:49 AM

The one thing that concerns me is the lies she has told. If she starts telling all and sundry the same lies it could hurt my reputation.

Sadly this is part and parcel of the job.

Parent gets to spout bucket loads of nonsense so they don't look like the type of person they're claiming not to be - it's somebody else's fault guvnor - and we (the collective 'we') aren't able to defend our corner due to 'confidentially' rules :censored:

The best you can hope for is:
ask Dad for a copy of the email for your file
if anyone does mention to you that mum has been deflammatory (sp?) about your business, ask them if they are prepared to make a statement so that you can issue a cease and desist statement letter to said parent
Don't worry if they decline to do a statement, you can still speak to a solicitor and arrange for a cease and desist letter to be sent anyway but it helps keep things more factual rather than hearsay should Ofsted get wind of anything....

Take it with a pinch of salt hun, mum has problems, not you :thumbsup:

bunyip

07-02-2015, 12:49 PM

Honestly halor, you're well out of this, especially if there's a custody battle looming. I'd have been even more worried if mum was actually being nice to you: that invariably signals the point where they want you to take their side and deny dad his PR rights. :panic:

There's a lot of clients who want us to run our entire settings around their child. I get quite a few who seem to think I can guarantee a constant supply of same-age playmates for their child.

The really frustrating thing is the way some parents want to be 'the last one through the door'. They insist you squeeze in their child when you're very nearly full to bursting, then complain about you giving the other children any attention. :mad:

rickysmiths

09-02-2015, 12:04 PM