Free 15 hours for 2 year old

[Childminder16]

Hi can someone tell me do we childminders 'have' to give 2 year old the free 15 hours? Does any childminder do the free 15 hours if so what do you think of it...thanks in advance

[moggy]

Hi can someone tell me do we childminders 'have' to give 2 year old the free 15 hours? Does any childminder do the free 15 hours if so what do you think of it...thanks in advance

Do you mean if you are already registered on the scheme with your LA? Are you offering the FE to any other children at the moment?

No one has to be registered for 2, 3 or 4yr FE. I am not.
If you are registered for 2-yr FE you need to refer to your contract with your LA to see what obligations they put on you. All LAs are different.

[Childminder16]

Do you mean if you are already registered on the scheme with your LA? Are you offering the FE to any other children at the moment?

No one has to be registered for 2, 3 or 4yr FE. I am not.
If you are registered for 2-yr FE you need to refer to your contract with your LA to see what obligations they put on you. All LAs are different.

Thanks Moggy.

No I'm not registered but wasn't sure if we were going to have to be registered. I feel there's a lot of pressure already on us childminders as it is and that we don't get enough help like nurseries do. Thanks again

[moggy]

Thanks Moggy.

No I'm not registered but wasn't sure if we were going to have to be registered. I feel there's a lot of pressure already on us childminders as it is and that we don't get enough help like nurseries do. Thanks again

Absolutely no requirement to be registered. In this area they pay so little for FE hours there are very few CMers registered for it at all.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I am registered and take children because it fills my gaps and supplements my income.

[Simona]

Hi can someone tell me do we childminders 'have' to give 2 year old the free 15 hours? Does any childminder do the free 15 hours if so what do you think of it...thanks in advance

Many LAs have a sustainability officer to help you navigate the requirements.
You need to consider funding...is it enough?
Some 2 yo may have additional needs
The funding is only for 38 weeks....it can be spread sometimes if it suits you
Do you have any support from your LA?
There is a little bit of extra documentation...so all in all many questions
Try and get them answered....not enough spaces for 2yo means govt is pushing them into schools

Hope you can consider all the issues and decide
Good luck:thumbsup:

[Simona]

Sorry...one more point to consider
The Free Entitlement is not FREE...it is a subsidy from us who top up the shortfall we receive from LAs

It may be worth 'renaming' the free with subsidy so parents are aware what our role is when we offer the 15 hours.
Govt funds education via tax payers money ...we providers, as tax payers, subsidise it so contribute twice

Hot topic at the minute with LAs having to answer question and give evidence to the Lords Childcare committee

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sorry...one more point to consider
The Free Entitlement is not FREE...it is a subsidy from us who top up the shortfall we receive from LAs
It may be worth 'renaming' the free with subsidy so parents are aware what our role is when we offer the 15 hours.
Govt funds education via tax payers money ...we providers, as tax payers, subsidise it so contribute twice

Hot topic at the minute with LAs having to answer question and give evidence to the Lords Childcare committee

check your rate as Simona says but mine pays 25% more than my standard rate so I do provide this service FREE but everything comes out of it apart from snacks and lunch

[Simona]

check your rate as Simona says but mine pays 25% more than my standard rate so I do provide this service FREE but everything comes out of it apart from snacks and lunch

Glad to hear that some LAs do pay appropriately Chatterbox...good for them!
I bet those like your LA are the ones who do not have to sell the funding to us because cms will feel rewarded and eager to participate

[FloraDora]

I registered for 3year funding and that automatically registered me for the 2 year old funding.
I have not been put under pressure to take 2 year olds, but I know my LA are trying to get them all places and so I receive lots of info, opportunities for training and free advertising. I was feeling that anyday they would be knocking!
The rate is 35p more than the average local rate.

[Simona]

I registered for 3year funding and that automatically registered me for the 2 year old funding.
I have not been put under pressure to take 2 year olds, but I know my LA are trying to get them all places and so I receive lots of info, opportunities for training and free advertising. I was feeling that anyday they would be knocking!
The rate is 35p more than the average local rate.

WOW!
Another LA that pays the appropriate rate...in this case ...or both yours Flora Dora and Chatterbox...providers seems to receive above their going local rate so in fact making a very small profit ...is that right?

What are your views if you compare that to cms who are actually losing nearly 50% by agreeing to fund places in other LAs?
the issue of the LAs doing as they please is clear now

I hope those LAs who do not pass the full funding are taken to account...very soon.

next year LAs will only be paid by result...on the number of children actually placed...I wonder what will happen then?

Hope other CMs will share their experience on this...are they losing or making money from the funding?

[Mummits]

My LA pays CMs something close to the typical local hourly rate for two year olds (though once the fact that it is only 38 weeks per year is taken into account, many are still out of pocket and reluctant to participate). But the even bigger issue is that the three year old rate is significantly lower - 50 % of the "going rate" as Simona says. The question I ask myself is whether, if I took on a two year old, I could bring myself to turn them away once they reached three. I could not bring myself to work for such a cynically exploitative rate. I have taken funded two year olds in the past, and more by luck than judgement the issue has not arisen as they have moved away or no longer needed care when they reached three for other reasons. The three year old rate is even lower now than it was a couple of years ago. The parents of one of my current children (not eligible for 2YO funding) has asked if I will offer 15 hours "free" next year it and I have told them I can't afford to. As a result they will probably go to pre-school. I could probably avert this by bending the funding rules, as many others have apparently been advised by their LAs - for example by upping the cost of non funded hours or adding charges for service currently included in my rates. I don't see why I should be forced to do that. There should be a fair and transparent system in place which recognises regional variations in costs (particularly of housing) and which takes into account that CMs often cannot hope to compete on price with nurseries and preschools, many of which have accommodation provided cheap or free by school or church and who have higher staff:child ratios.

[FloraDora]

Even though my LA gives 35p over local average there are still some issues, so worse for those that have lower funding.

It doesn't take into account individual childminders arrangements. For instance all my parents provide wellies and an all in one outdoor overall. Parents who take up the free funding may not be able to afford this and our agreement says you cannot ask them for anything extra ..they suggest the parent is given opportunity to provide own meals, you cannot charge extra and make anything compulsory to attending.

Still, for some childminders the regular, guaranteed payment,albeit for 38 weeks of the year is a good incentive.

[Simona]

My LA pays CMs something close to the typical local hourly rate for two year olds (though once the fact that it is only 38 weeks per year is taken into account, many are still out of pocket and reluctant to participate). But the even bigger issue is that the three year old rate is significantly lower - 50 % of the "going rate" as Simona says. The question I ask myself is whether, if I took on a two year old, I could bring myself to turn them away once they reached three. I could not bring myself to work for such a cynically exploitative rate. I have taken funded two year olds in the past, and more by luck than judgement the issue has not arisen as they have moved away or no longer needed care when they reached three for other reasons. The three year old rate is even lower now than it was a couple of years ago. The parents of one of my current children (not eligible for 2YO funding) has asked if I will offer 15 hours "free" next year it and I have told them I can't afford to. As a result they will probably go to pre-school. I could probably avert this by bending the funding rules, as many others have apparently been advised by their LAs - for example by upping the cost of non funded hours or adding charges for service currently included in my rates. I don't see why I should be forced to do that. There should be a fair and transparent system in place which recognises regional variations in costs (particularly of housing) and which takes into account that CMs often cannot hope to compete on price with nurseries and preschools, many of which have accommodation provided cheap or free by school or church and who have higher staff:child ratios.

I totally agree with you and the fact some LAs are exploiting providers...see what the minister for children said 'we fund LAs...up to them how they choose to fund providers'...that is why we have 152 variations and some LAs do as they please...it's joke

Cynical is just the right word and some of us have seen the same rate of funding since 1997
I have heard and been advised...as have many providers.... of many ways to up the fees outside the entitlement...such advice came from 4 Children itself amongst others....I refuse to do so...it defeats the object.

NDNA have stated recently that is the very reason cost of childcare is spiralling out of control...how right they are.

Flora Dora...we know that needy families cannot afford any extras ...Cms rarely charge for extras...unlike nurseries and preschools who calculate the hours of attendance differently...worth finding out how they do it.

the provision of wellies is not something new....I have had a line of them under my stairs for the past 20 years

The point is that we are 'SUBSIDISING' childcare...it is not FREE and never has been...wrong terminology to make it attractive to women so they return to work
We pay tax and then subsidise what is the govt's responsibility to provide: Education!...many providers earn less than those parents on £16,190 who we subsidise

It is wrong and immoral to expect this....as is the system that allows some to lose money while others benefit for tax payers money via the funding.
Many mention the local rate ...or average fees...what is the local rate now that childcare is an open market?

Yes the funding is guaranteed for 38 weeks.... up to a point...parents can opt in and out leaving providers out of pocket when they find they have to return the funding...and payment is not prompt as it is usually well in arrears.
We moan and worry about parents not paying on time...what gives the LAs the right to pay when they please?

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I call up all the 15 hours for the full 38 weeks and parents take up 2 days at 6 hours (9am-3pm) per week. The remainding 3 hours are accumulated and carried over into the school holidays (I get paid a higher rate because I offer 48 weeks cover). This means that I can take on more children per week.

My LA pay in advance and I received Septembers initial payment in the last week of August and the balance of head count from September to December inclusive in the last week of October.

My advice is to ring your LA, they do need you and will be knocking on your door in September.

Only one downside here that we weren't all aware of is that you have to be registered to take the funding. Some childminders had people apply and then register but they couldn't take the funding until the following term, whereas if they had been registered they could start immediately.