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View Full Version : Before and after school, going out to play!



Rubybubbles
13-09-2014, 03:03 PM
Hello all,

A question I've never had to deal with before! I am starting with a 9yr old and 10yr old (different families) , both parents have stated they are allowed out to play. I have always kept them with me, taken 2 and from school.

I know the 10 yr old currently goes to a childminder and walks himself back to hers, and then is allowed outside to play.

I feel really uncomfortable with this, and have told both sets of parents so! I kinda waffled about needing to confirm with the childcare register!

So looking I found this

CR5.2
Childminders must ensure that a child is unable to leave the premises unsupervised.
Compulsory part of the Childcare Register only
CR5.3
Childminders must ensure that a child is unable to leave the premises unsupervised except where the child is aged eight or over and the parent of the child has agreed that they may leave the provision unaccompanied.
Voluntary part of the Childcare Register only

So which is it for me?!? Am I just really confusing myself, I am on eyfs/childcare register and have always taken the voluntary part as if you have over 8's only?

Please help!

Kiddleywinks
13-09-2014, 03:13 PM
I would imagine it's the over 8's, however....

Personally, I would not be comfortable with allowing children out unsupervised whilst they are in my care - Jessica and Holly were 10 years old, and that has stayed with me even for my own children.
Whilst I appreciate parents might be ok with it, and that's fine when they are in the parents care, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if anything happened so am not prepared to put myself through that kind of turmoil, and that's what I inform parents. If that means I'm not the minder for them, so be it, I'd rather lose the money, than lose a child.

Rubybubbles
13-09-2014, 03:20 PM
I would imagine it's the over 8's, however....

Personally, I would not be comfortable with allowing children out unsupervised whilst they are in my care - Jessica and Holly were 10 years old, and that has stayed with me even for my own children.
Whilst I appreciate parents might be ok with it, and that's fine when they are in the parents care, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if anything happened so am not prepared to put myself through that kind of turmoil, and that's what I inform parents. If that means I'm not the minder for them, so be it, I'd rather lose the money, than lose a child.


I think I'm not happy, but it's an odd set up as my own children 10 & 13 are allowed out to play (but they go to boarding so only back during working hours during school hols) and I have said term time only for school age children so I can get out and about with the EYFS age group and my own!

1 family I know will be fine, but the other family I'm worried about, and thinking that maybe I'm not the minder for them, she was put out that I said no to a laptop/ipad/ipod ect coming to the setting! I reassured I provide ..... ect! Think I may put them on a 6 week settling and go from that!


What about walking to mine from school arghhhh....

Kiddleywinks
13-09-2014, 04:29 PM
You have to feel comfortable doing whatever you decide, and if you feel in the least bit unsure, nervous, unhappy, then it's not without reason.

It is different when it's your own children, you are ultimately responsible if things go wrong - goes with the territory of being the parent :laughing:, and you know your own children best so 'get' what you can or can't trust them to do.

tulip0803
13-09-2014, 04:40 PM
I am not comfortable with it but I now live somewhere this isn't possible anyway. I didn't allow it when I minded on an estate and parents and children accepted it.

I think you should also check with your insurer to see where you stand. If something went wrong even with parental permissions/disclaimers you need to know where you stand. Don't forget even with parental permissions you can't let children under the recommended age go on a trampoline and be covered by insurance.

Rubybubbles
13-09-2014, 04:53 PM
Thanks guys,

I'm going to say no to them going out to play and independent arrival:) I just feel very uneasy about it!

I'm going to phone my insurance too, as I have read that MM won't allow it on here (but always good to confirm, and if they say yes, I'm still going to risk assess!)

I have just moved to a very secure RAF base, all "behind the wire" but I still can't settle on it, so if they don't like it, tough!

Simona
13-09-2014, 05:15 PM
Hello all,

A question I've never had to deal with before! I am starting with a 9yr old and 10yr old (different families) , both parents have stated they are allowed out to play. I have always kept them with me, taken 2 and from school.

I know the 10 yr old currently goes to a childminder and walks himself back to hers, and then is allowed outside to play.

I feel really uncomfortable with this, and have told both sets of parents so! I kinda waffled about needing to confirm with the childcare register!

So looking I found this

CR5.2
Childminders must ensure that a child is unable to leave the premises unsupervised.
Compulsory part of the Childcare Register only
CR5.3
Childminders must ensure that a child is unable to leave the premises unsupervised except where the child is aged eight or over and the parent of the child has agreed that they may leave the provision unaccompanied.
Voluntary part of the Childcare Register only

So which is it for me?!? Am I just really confusing myself, I am on eyfs/childcare register and have always taken the voluntary part as if you have over 8's only?

Please help!

I really find the guidance you quoted on this extremely confusing and I share your frustration
Not really clear English is it?
children cannot leave unsupervised but they can leave unaccompanied?
it does not state whether they can walk to us unaccompanied either

Would a call to Ofsted clarify?

Rubybubbles
15-09-2014, 07:24 AM
I really find the guidance you quoted on this extremely confusing and I share your frustration
Not really clear English is it?
children cannot leave unsupervised but they can leave unaccompanied?
it does not state whether they can walk to us unaccompanied either

Would a call to Ofsted clarify?

I'm going to phone Ofsted and my insurance this morning, I'm taking a family to school/ nursery today with parents to meet the teachers, then it's the first thing on my to do when I get back!


It's not clear english at all! I read it as yes they can leave, as long as we are supervising, but how do we supervise if not with them? Phones? knowing their exact location? I'll let you know how I get on!

JCrakers
15-09-2014, 09:29 AM
I think it all depends on your circumstances, where you live etc. I only say this because I live right next to a park/green which is very open, surrounded by houses and I do allow the over 8's to go ahead of me whilst I put shoes on little ones. I occasionally leave them there playing football if someone needs the loo.
I only do this because they are all 9,10 and 11yrs old and I can see the park directly from my house. I also let them outside to have a water fight on the cul-de-sac in the summer. I was in the house due to having 3 small children who would have been too cold getting wet outside.

After RA and making sure all possibilities are covered I was happy letting them do this. ie the park is open, the area isn't secluded, I can see/hear them, they all know rules about where they can go and where they can't.

If I didn't have such fantastic facilities and the children were off where I couldn't supervise then I wouldn't allow them.

I also have 2 independent walkers from secondary school (11yrs) I have their mobile numbers and they have a time that they need to be here for. This again is due to the circumstances of where I live etc. It is a 20-25min walk for them but everyone walks, I don't live in a city centre etc.

Rubybubbles
15-09-2014, 09:56 AM
Okay then:laughing:

Ofsted - I can allow the children to walk home, but they highly recommend contracts, risk assessment and parental permissions, as they are not in the child-care register we don't need to be registered for them to come. So all about parental permissions to do so. Again with going out to play, all down to parental consents

Insurance - I'm with MM, I will not be insured for them to go out and play (thats more like it, to the point!) If I was to go with parents wishes and allow the children out and something happened I would not be covered - do not risk it! As for independent arrival, once have left school (who are happy for them to leave unsupervised) and until they arrive at my house, with VERY STRONG parental permissions (and contracts) then if I state they are not in my care until they arrive then I can (as I have not let them 'leave' the setting, which they would do if going out to play)! I would need an independent arrival policy/form.

So there we go! I feel armed with information to cover my risk assessments now! I am going to be at school for collections anyway, the older children don't have to hold the buggy or anything :p so I am sticking to my guns, and they are getting dropped off and collected!

Hopefully all this will help someone else further down the line! I really struggled to find any information on anyone who had the same situation and wondered if I was making a mountain out of a mole hill with it!

sarah707
15-09-2014, 05:08 PM
The childcare register is in 2 parts - the compulsory register for 5 - 8 and the voluntary register for 8+.

That's why the 2 statements are different - it recognises that older children might arrive independently.

I think you have made a wise decision x

Simona
15-09-2014, 07:49 PM
Okay then:laughing:

Ofsted - I can allow the children to walk home, but they highly recommend contracts, risk assessment and parental permissions, as they are not in the child-care register we don't need to be registered for them to come. So all about parental permissions to do so. Again with going out to play, all down to parental consents

Insurance - I'm with MM, I will not be insured for them to go out and play (thats more like it, to the point!) If I was to go with parents wishes and allow the children out and something happened I would not be covered - do not risk it! As for independent arrival, once have left school (who are happy for them to leave unsupervised) and until they arrive at my house, with VERY STRONG parental permissions (and contracts) then if I state they are not in my care until they arrive then I can (as I have not let them 'leave' the setting, which they would do if going out to play)! I would need an independent arrival policy/form.

So there we go! I feel armed with information to cover my risk assessments now! I am going to be at school for collections anyway, the older children don't have to hold the buggy or anything :p so I am sticking to my guns, and they are getting dropped off and collected!

Hopefully all this will help someone else further down the line! I really struggled to find any information on anyone who had the same situation and wondered if I was making a mountain out of a mole hill with it!

That is very helpful and good to read Ofsted were actually helpful and not told you to interpret it yourself.
Thank you for sharing that :thumbsup: