View Full Version : Help calculating funding

toddlers896

10-09-2014, 08:38 PM

I thought I had this sussed but ime confused again :laughing:

Child comes 35 hrs per week 7 hrs per day

I charge £4 per hour and £2 per hour for holidays.

11.5 hours free per week

I know it's 35 - 11.5 equals 23.5 chargeable. But if she has 3 days holiday how do I work out how many of the 23.5 is £2

I thought I had this sussed but ime confused again :laughing: Child comes 35 hrs per week 7 hrs per day I charge £4 per hour and £2 per hour for holidays. 11.5 hours free per week I know it's 35 - 11.5 equals 23.5 chargeable. But if she has 3 days holiday how do I work out how many of the 23.5 is £2

Unless I'm over simplifying I would say:

35 hours total

3 days holiday = 21 hours @ £2

35-11.5(free) = 23.5 chargeable

23.5-21 hols = 2.5 hours @ £4

xx

mama2three

11-09-2014, 05:53 AM

but surely the funding doesn't apply in the holidays?

So termtime you are charging 23.5 hours @£4

holidays you are charging 35 hours @£2

toddlers896

11-09-2014, 06:31 AM

but surely the funding doesn't apply in the holidays?

So termtime you are charging 23.5 hours @£4

holidays you are charging 35 hours @£2

I rang the nef about this to check I've been told that if I have been paid for the hours and they have an unexpected holiday then I don't have to give the hours back to the nef but I still have to deduct the hrs from the child's invoice as I have been paid for those hours otherwise I would be getting paid twice, once from nef and from the parent

This parent is also spreading the cost over the year hence the reason 11.5 and not 15 per week so she gets her hrs all through school holidays too.

****** nuisance this funding lol

muffins

11-09-2014, 07:02 AM

Sorry I don't have any advice.

It is for this reason I now only charge half fee's for holidays if it's taken in the school holidays, any term time holidays are charged at full fee. I did consider charging full fee all year round but this way encourages them to take time off in the holidays giving me more time with my own children:D

mama2three

11-09-2014, 07:03 AM

right , so if parents are on holiday they pay half fee?

So they pay for 23.5 hours a week ( nef covers rest) @ £2

if theyre on holiday for 3 days ( presuming they usually do 5 x 7 hour days?)

then 11.5 hours funding over 5 days = 2.3 hours per day , 3 days = 7 hours ( as near as anything)

so they get 7 hours funded leaving 16.5 to pay for at £2 an hour = £33 for the 3 days (or £11 a day)

Once you've shown on this invoice how you've reached £11 a day then just use that figure in future rather than all working out x

.

hectors house

11-09-2014, 07:33 AM

What a headache, thankfully my 2 year old who is funded and spreads hours throughout the whole year has only taken one day off at short notice for a holiday, I still just billed the parent as if the child had come that day as she didn't give enough notice for it to be at half fee. I am phasing out half fees and replacing with full fees for parents holiday (for new starters) as they never take the same holiday as me and I earned hardly anything again this August.

Simona

11-09-2014, 08:01 AM

Toddlers 896....you calculation and invoice are going to be very complicated

Your only requirement is to show the full amount due in your invoice minus the funded hours

If parents go on holiday you charge them but not for the funded hours

During their holidays it is 11.5 hrs free and

23.5 at your holiday rate which appears to be £2...which sounds like a 1/2 retainer? but you are there to provide the free place?

what happens when you are on holiday? and how many holidays are your parents allowed to take?

In addition...If funded parents take children on holiday during term time I do not see why cms have to pay the money back? I know you are not being asked to do this but in some LAs yes we are

in schools parents are fined for taking children off school...schools do not hand funding back but cms may have to?

Maybe Cms need to scrutinise their LAs Conditions of funding and adjust their contract accordingly so that funded parents have our own terms and conditions to adhere to as well

Yes parents can stretch the entitlement to over 38 weeks...this is voluntary not compulsory at the moment... but what if this is not convenient to cms??

I hope you get it all sorted :thumbsup:

toddlers896

11-09-2014, 11:51 AM

right , so if parents are on holiday they pay half fee?

So they pay for 23.5 hours a week ( nef covers rest) @ £2

if theyre on holiday for 3 days ( presuming they usually do 5 x 7 hour days?)

then 11.5 hours funding over 5 days = 2.3 hours per day , 3 days = 7 hours ( as near as anything)

so they get 7 hours funded leaving 16.5 to pay for at £2 an hour = £33 for the 3 days (or £11 a day)

Once you've shown on this invoice how you've reached £11 a day then just use that figure in future rather than all working out x

.

I can see how you are getting this figure but how can I only give them 7 hours funded hours when I have been paid for 11.5.

mama2three

11-09-2014, 12:01 PM

ive based that on 5 days of 7 hours a week , and them taking 3 3 days holiday? have I misunderstood?

toddlers896

11-09-2014, 12:11 PM

ive based that on 5 days of 7 hours a week , and them taking 3 3 days holiday? have I misunderstood?

Your probably right but ime confused. I hate working this out. It's doing my head in x

blue bear

11-09-2014, 07:02 PM

I work out the weekly cost using 15 hours per week term time only. Then I work out holiday costs. Add it together divide by 12 that's the monthly fee the parent pays.

toddlers896

12-09-2014, 05:06 AM

right , so if parents are on holiday they pay half fee?

So they pay for 23.5 hours a week ( nef covers rest) @ £2

if theyre on holiday for 3 days ( presuming they usually do 5 x 7 hour days?)

then 11.5 hours funding over 5 days = 2.3 hours per day , 3 days = 7 hours ( as near as anything)

so they get 7 hours funded leaving 16.5 to pay for at £2 an hour = £33 for the 3 days (or £11 a day)

Once you've shown on this invoice how you've reached £11 a day then just use that figure in future rather than all working out x

.

Do you know what mama, my head has been going round and round in circles for months now trying to work out this funding that I have just started in September and something kept telling me that the way I was doing it was wrong. I even sent an invoice to my DO and she said yep that's right the way you are doing it but after lying in bed thinking about it all night Your reply has suddenly clicked. Of course you have to work out how many free hrs oer day for holidays otherwise ime working for nothing. I was calculating it the same way ask JKL.

Thanks for your message and thanks for finally helping me get it right :thumbsup: I love you ha ha. You wouldn't believe how stressed out I have been over this x

Simona

12-09-2014, 07:12 AM

Do you know what mama, my head has been going round and round in circles for months now trying to work out this funding that I have just started in September and something kept telling me that the way I was doing it was wrong. I even sent an invoice to my DO and she said yep that's right the way you are doing it but after lying in bed thinking about it all night Your reply has suddenly clicked. Of course you have to work out how many free hrs oer day for holidays otherwise ime working for nothing. I was calculating it the same way ask JKL.

Thanks for your message and thanks for finally helping me get it right :thumbsup: I love you ha ha. You wouldn't believe how stressed out I have been over this x

I am so glad you have now worked it out because it was very confusing

Made me laugh your DO said it was OK?...maybe they should stick to supporting cms rather than give this sort of administrative advice...not their remit is it?

Just as general advice to cms when they find themselves in this situation with the subsidised education...please remember is it not FREE...many LAs have a 'sustainability officer' now so worth giving them a ring ...it is free....and get help unless cms have an accountant

Mouse

12-09-2014, 08:14 AM

It's all too confusing!

Mouse

12-09-2014, 08:39 AM

I think I've got it now!

So for a day when they attend it's:

7 hours - 2.3 hours funded = 4.7 hours @ £4 = £18.80

For a holiday day it's:

7 hours - 2.3 hours funded = 4.7 hours @ £2 = £9.40

If they took 3 days off they would pay:

2 days @ £18.80

3 days @ £9.40

Total = £65.80

The only problem I see is that funding needs to be for a minimum number of hours per day (I think 2.5hrs), so I don't know if you can show it as less than that on an invoice.

I would also be careful about how I worded it on a contract. If you say the child gets 11.5 hours a week funded, you would have to knock that off each invoice, whether or not they attended. So if they had 3 days off your invoice for the 35 hour week would be:

Holiday 3 days @ 7hrs = 21hrs @ £2 = £42

Attended 2 days @ 7hrs = 14hrs. 11.5hrs free

2.5hrs @ £4 = £10

Total = £52

I would do a letter making it very clear which way you are going to work it out, so that parents and the LA (if they audit you) can see exactly how you've calculated it.

Mouse

12-09-2014, 08:46 AM

Or an even easier way of showing it and to get round having to show funded hours of 2.3 per day:

Full 35 hour week

11.5 hours funded free

23.5 hrs @ £4 £94

£94 per week = £18.80 per day

Holiday week

11.5 hours funded free

23.5hrs @ £2 £47

£47 per week = £9.40 per day

So a day attended = £18.80

and a holiday day = £9.40

Once you've told them that, you can just work out each week by the number of days attended or on holiday :thumbsup: