CMs agencies...more concerns

[Simona]

Childminder agencies do not need to share reports on standard of care | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1146389/childminder-agencies-agencies-share-reports-standard-care?utm_content=&utm_campaign=08.09.14%20NW%20Update&utm_source=Nursery%20World&utm_medium=adestra_email&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nurseryworld.co.uk%2Fnur sery-world%2Fnews%2F1146389%2Fchildminder-agencies-agencies-share-reports-standard-care)

[agency12]

Hi,

Our plans are to have inspection report and an up to date RAG rating for every childminder online

[Simona]

Hi,

Our plans are to have inspection report and an up to date RAG rating for every childminder online

Whose inspection report? The agency gets inspected by Ofsted not CMs ...so you mean monitoring visits would be published?

[natlou82]

I will keep my official Ofsted rating thankyou. I know parents don't always read the ofsted reports but I still think parents will choose an ofsted registered CM with an official rating rather than a RAG rating from an agency. Especially since I can't see agency CMs offering a cheaper service due to paying fees to the agency.

[Simona]

I will keep my official Ofsted rating thankyou. I know parents don't always read the ofsted reports but I still think parents will choose an ofsted registered CM with an official rating rather than a RAG rating from an agency. Especially since I can't see agency CMs offering a cheaper service due to paying fees to the agency.

The problem is that agencies will be allowed to 'inspect' cms...it is in the guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?keywords=Childminders+agencies&publication_filter_option=all&topics%5B%5D=all&departments%5B%5D=all&official_document_status=all&world_locations%5B%5D=all&from_date=&to_date=

My EY team has applied to become an agency and they have stated they will inspect cms and grade them...that is the first worry when these people running agencies ...and anyone can....are NOT trained to inspect but will reassure parents cms have had an inspection.

The RAG grading is soooooo out of date it is unbelievable anyone would use it...it has no scope for aiming beyond good.
Maybe Agency12 needs to look at what is happening in terms of QA

Not all agencies will charge parents...we need to wait and hear although many agencies will not divulge that information.
Our EY Agency will not charge but then the whole package is laughable anyway.

It is worrying too that an agency would still ask now: what do cms want?
CMs please read all the document in that link...too many are still not well informed....agencies have been pushed in the background because of other matters

Do not wait until you have to say : I didn't know that!

If anyone is going to any OBC meeting please raise this to the Ofsted panel...I am off to the London OBC in June with a list of questions.
I would say Ofsted in their 'once over' ...God forbid I would take that description seriously....will expect an agency to evidence that without asking cms first.

keep informed and dust off all the publications !!!

[Ripeberry]

The whole thing is scary :(

[Simona]

The whole thing is scary :(

More than scary it is frustrating as agencies have been forgotten but I am sure lots is going on behind the scenes....not just on this issue but many.

Follow PLA and their plans for the sector...a good challenge for all.
I think it is just a question of rekindling the challenge about agencies and getting answers!

[Smiley]

I've just noticed a fifth agency has registered a few days ago.

[Mouse]

I've just noticed a fifth agency has registered a few days ago.

I see their application is number 10. Will be interesting to see if the others ever register.

[Simona]

I've just noticed a fifth agency has registered a few days ago.

Yes and that agency is in my LA...which I have been writing about a lot as we have huge concerns about it.
PLA tweeted yesterday they are now registered.

That agency is a Social Enterprise called Achieving for Children...it is between Richmond and Kingston

So now I have an agency right on my door step....our next CMs forum will be great fun.
I believe that when agencies apply they are given a number such as CA0001 etc etc...looks like no 10 has achieved registration before the others possibly because their plan is exactly how they run their Network.
Slowly slowly they will all register.

[agency12]

My local authority seems to be laying off pedagogy staff rather than creating anything that
could become an agency

[Simona]

My local authority seems to be laying off pedagogy staff rather than creating anything that
could become an agency

Thanks for your reply
I am not clear why LA are laying off 'pedagogy' and creating anything that would become an agency?

[agency12]

Who are the slowly slowly they will all register ?
Cm's with a handle on EYFS and a few ofsted inspections under their belt (especially the outstanding ones) would be crazy to join an agency.

I can see local authorities getting in on the act, Richmond is a start - but unless they make it somehow obligatory, or especially difficult for cm's to operate unless they 'agency-up' they will be a LA with a childcare team called an agency in name only

[Simona]

Who are the slowly slowly they will all register ?
Cm's with a handle on EYFS and a few ofsted inspections under their belt (especially the outstanding ones) would be crazy to join an agency.

I can see local authorities getting in on the act, Richmond is a start - but unless they make it somehow obligatory, or especially difficult for cm's to operate unless they 'agency-up' they will be a LA with a childcare team called an agency in name only

Richmond LA is not the agency...Achieving for Children is...very different I'm afraid.
Each cm who remains 'independent' is an agency in itself because the main choice is remaining 'registered' with Ofsted...that is exactly what Truss believed ...but things have moved on since and she is now busy culling badgers.

As you are a nursery can you explain why you feel adequately knowledgeable and competent in being an agency for CMs?

What is 'agency up'?...I would call it 'agency down' to use your jargon.

I fail to understand what having a 'handle on the EYFS' actually means...or is it that we have a good knowledge of the framework?

As for who gets registered you will have to wait and see....some of us are still digging and questioning!

[agency12]

Achieving for children seem to be top heavy with council folk - they even offer council pensions to employees - I'm not sure how autonomous they are (or would wish to be)

The obvious contenders for agencies are the likes of 'achieving' or indeed PACEY - i'd like to know if St Bedes CA000001 got 'outstanding' and who/what they compared it to, with so few of us it's difficult to get an overview

[teacake2]

Does agency 12 ever answer a question or do they think they are like politicians and only answer a question with another question or some other sort of drivel, it is just like listening to government officials.
Teacake2

[Simona]

Achieving for children seem to be top heavy with council folk - they even offer council pensions to employees - I'm not sure how autonomous they are (or would wish to be)

The obvious contenders for agencies are the likes of 'achieving' or indeed PACEY - i'd like to know if St Bedes CA000001 got 'outstanding' and who/what they compared it to, with so few of us it's difficult to get an overview

Achieving for Children is a big Social Enterprise and its remit is very wide.....included in that is now being a CM agency.
You can read lots of articles in the press...you would find them fascinating!
The letter I have received from its CEO is even more interesting!

AfC is a SE between 2 LAs which have merged so I am sure it is , as you say; 'top heavy with council folk'....maybe you mean those who worked for Richmond LA and Kingston are now employed by AfC? in which case you are correct.

They would have pension schemes in place because every employer has to do that now...see recent govt legislation...is that related to agencies or this thread?
AfC ...is it independent?...well not really a concern for you as you are a nursery....but a concern for cms like me who fought the agency idea and questioned a lot of things...and, as said, now have an agency on our doorstep...I am sharpening my focus even more to keep an eye on them.

Anyone can be an agency....or at least that is the govt's idea and what Truss said to me and my colleague when we met her in 2012.
As long as an agency de-registers cms and follows the Ofsted guidance...voila' ...job done.
If, as you say, the obvious contenders are AfC or Pacey...why have you applied to register?

Either you have little knowledge of CMs or you are here asking questions to inform your agency model? and prepare for your registration visit...or something else?

You did ask me a question about who will register in future and I have not answered that one...you will find out soon....but I think they may have a bit more understanding than that you appear to have from your questions.
Also ask 4 Children...DfE strategic partner!
Also look at who Darrel Care is...very revealing!

St Bede's has received its registration visit....I don't know if they received Outstanding...but if they did, is possibly because they have all the required paperwork and support in place, have a model that is acceptable to DfE and Ofsted and have submitted a good plan which, I am afraid to say, you do not seem to have or give impression you do.

Teacake....Agency 12 has been approved as a member of this forum and asks a lots of questions but rarely replies...so I apologise if this is boring people.
Leaving her questions unanswered may give agency 12 more room for speculation and wild assumptions.
You may remember at the very start of this saga that many potential agencies invited cms to attend meeting where lots of questions were asked of us...to inform their model....many cms were furious at this tactic....many voiced their concerns.

Sadly it is what agency 12 is using...coming here and asking lots of questions but never give an answer.
This is extremely concerning but obviously not to those members reading as there are no objections raised ,although the thread is read widely.

Very sad really for Cms to be used in this way!

The London OBC on 24 June has CMs agencies on the agenda...I shall seek many clarifications then!

[loocyloo]

I am reading and am not in favour of agencies but as I can see no point in discussing anything with a prospective agency and therefore giving them ideas, I am not joining in a discussion.
I read in the hope that I read something that makes me think people setting up agencies actually know the market and what they are doing.

[Simona]

I am reading and am not in favour of agencies but as I can see no point in discussing anything with a prospective agency and therefore giving them ideas, I am not joining in a discussion.
I read in the hope that I read something that makes me think people setting up agencies actually know the market and what they are doing.

I do not feel I am giving ideas when replying...often it is more a case of addressing 'misinformation' and looking/quoting from the info agencies have in order to set up.
Few are in favour of agencies but they are coming.

[agency12]

I've heard that it costs £200+ for every ofsted inspection (ofsted charge £35) as the government cut back then education will take its share, there is no way they can continue- agencies will happen - some cm's wanting more support will lean towards the agencies, others will stay with ofsted - but ofsted's relationship with cm's has to change - and I don't see agencies as necessarily the bad guys in this - as the 30 'free' hours deadline approaches cm's (and nurseries) have to talk sustainability- there will be 'interesting times' ahead - both the independents and the agency registered will be in the same boat

[agency12]

Oh I'm I'm coming over as not answering questions please bear with, we are not registered yet nor can I answer for other agencies so I'm trying not to generalise, or over-promise

[Simona]

Oh I'm I'm coming over as not answering questions please bear with, we are not registered yet nor can I answer for other agencies so I'm trying not to generalise, or over-promise

I despair for any cm who joins your agency.
I shall raise my concerns about this discussion elsewhere

[Rubybubbles]

I've heard that it costs £200+ for every ofsted inspection (ofsted charge £35) as the government cut back then education will take its share, there is no way they can continue- agencies will happen - some cm's wanting more support will lean towards the agencies, others will stay with ofsted - but ofsted's relationship with cm's has to change - and I don't see agencies as necessarily the bad guys in this - as the 30 'free' hours deadline approaches cm's (and nurseries) have to talk sustainability- there will be 'interesting times' ahead - both the independents and the agency registered will be in the same boat

Is happily pay ofsted £200 if they turned up in the right time frame!!

[Simona]

The annoying thing is when Agency 12 does make a statement it is false or misleading...on this occasion she has mentioned the cost of an inspection ....she is totally wrong...as all the informed Cms know as Ofsted have confirmed the figures ...so why does Agency 12 say she has heard?....gossip won't do
That is why I have tried to respond to her waffle and address matters.

Agency 12 ...no one asked you to talk about other CMs agencies...you did twice....mentioning the one in my area which you know nothing about and it shows.
You came on this forum saying you were preparing for the 'once over' and that you were not competent enough to support CMs in safeguarding asking questions.
Your whole terminology, writing and language is very unprofessional and it sounded an alarm bell for me....in fact your whole package is rather dubious.

it is not difficult to identify you and, as said, I will make sure this kind of thing is not allowed to happen again by using Cms to provide you with info you should know back to front.

Rubybubbles is correct...it shows that Agency 12 is not aware of the long campaign by CMs and the inspection/registration fee saga.

I know it would be better to step back from this because it is utter rubbish but I do not intend letting Agency 12 spread misinformation and then shyly say she is not allowed to divulge anything...that is telling in itself.

This whole thread has taught me a lot...I hope those reading it have made notes on how revealing Agency 12 has been in her statements and hope no one else is allowed to make use of cms in such a way...I am appalled.

[agency12]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days,

I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs)

Cm's pay £35

[Mouse]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days,

I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs)

Cm's pay £35

Childminders pay £35 per year, not per inspection. I have not been inspected for 6 years, so by the time they come again I will have paid at least £210.

It is misleading to quote the approximate inspection fee and compare it to the £35 a year fee paid by childminders.

[Simona]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days,

I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs)

Cm's pay £35

As far as we are aware there are inspectors from Tribal and Prospects...Trident?...not sure
The cost of a school inspection is really not relevant to that of CMs.

The fee an inspector gets for individual inspections is also between the inspector and the company who pays her/him as freelance to do the inspections.

Yes CMs do pay £35...that is a fee for registration and inspection and it includes the services Ofsted provide for us each year.
Our fee has been frozen for an extra year at £35...so we will have to wait and see what happens in future.

Just to clarify that for you Agency 12....DfE sets our registration fee not Ofsted

Mouse has also clarified other misleading facts you have commented on.

[k1rstie]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days, I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs) Cm's pay £35

£10,000 for a two day inspection. Surely this is incorrect?

[natlou82]

I hope you are not planning on scaring new CMs into your agency with these sort of comments!

[Mouse]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days,

I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs)

Cm's pay £35


Blimey, I'd want more than £100 an hour if I was inspecting nuclear missiles :ROFL1:

[Simona]

Inspecting a school (according to legislation.gov.uk) costs £10000 - that's two inspectors for two days,

I've spoken to a trident inspector who gets £200 for a 2 hr visit (so that's not including any back office costs)

Cm's pay £35

Forgot to mention 2 vital facts.
1. Inspections for Cms can vary in time
If you check the latest Handbook for inspections published by Ofsted last month it states a CM's inspection will last 'about 3 hours'.

2. Schools are inspected by Ofsted inspectors not those put to tender by Tribal or Prospects

Try to limit your misinformation Agency 12 because my list is getting too long...I will need special permission to put them all to the Ofsted panel at OBC.

Rather than scaring CMs you are the one we are scared of due to your lack of knowledge...or maybe you are playing a game?

[Simona]

Blimey, I'd want more than £100 an hour if I was inspecting nuclear missiles :ROFL1:

That is just PRICELESS! :thumbsup:

These poor inspectors are underpaid...maybe a strike is looming!

[Simona]

Tribal, Prospects and SERCO contracts renewed by Ofsted to carry out early Years inspections

Ofsted extends third-party early years inspection contracts | Children & Young People Now (http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/1151935/ofsted-extends-third-party-early-years-inspection-contracts?utm_content=&utm_campaign=100615%20Daily&utm_source=Children%20%26%20Young%20People%20Now&utm_medium=adestra_email&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cypnow.co.uk%2Fcyp%2Fnew s%2F1151935%2Fofsted-extends-third-party-early-years-inspection-contracts)

Trident missiles still inspected by MoD!!

[agency12]

Freudian slip - yes tribal..

[Jayse74]

@Simona.

Am I right in thinking if you are with an Agency, a parent cannot view your inspection report via the Ofsted website?

[Simona]

@Simona.

Am I right in thinking if you are with an Agency, a parent cannot view your inspection report via the Ofsted website?

Hi Jayse74

my understanding is that the agency initial inspection after registration with Ofsted and subsequent ones, when they have recruited CMs.... WILL be on the Ofsted website.

Unfortunately CMs lose their individual inspection by Tribal/Prospects ...so there is no report to be put on line for the individual CM....this is how I understand it.

The Agency must do visits and QA...and provide Cms with a copy of the report.
Some agencies may call these visits 'inspections' and either grade or rate a CM according to which system they use ...such as ECERS...these reports can be made available to parents.

This is the doc to check...Section 3 in particular
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/383126/Childminder_agencies_-_step-by-step_guide_final.pdf

3.13 Following a visit, the agency must produce a written report of the visit and a copy of this must be made available to the childminder who is the subject of the report, and to the parents of any child receiving registered childcare provision from them. Agencies are not required to share these reports with prospective parents but may choose to do so on request, as it may assist parents in their selection of a childminder. Agencies will have to detail these arrangements in their ‘statement of purpose’ when registering with Ofsted.

3.14 It will be for agencies to determine the shape and content of their quality assurance arrangements. However, for early years childminders, this must include an assessment against delivery of the EYFS learning and development and EYFS welfare requirements, including around safeguarding. It will be for agencies to determine if they want to rate or grade providers who are registered with them and, if so, what scale or system they use

Having read that document again...it is a rubbish and spoon feeds agencies into what they need to do....as some will have little knowledge of cms...as it states very clearly :angry: