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EmmaReed84
22-07-2014, 11:48 AM
Okay, so obviously I am not talking about me personally drinking, but my husband! He works long hard days in London and has to commute, Friday's he does an early and is usually home by just after 5pm, when I have one 7yr old mindee left. He comes in, gets a beer from the fridge and sits in the garden, he only has one, then has a shower. Mindee does not leave until 7pm.

I have said before that he shouldn't drink around mindees but his arguement is "This is MY HOME, I won't be told what I can and cannot do after a long week at work, it's only one!" I know mindees parent would not mind. Once I said at collection "Oh, wine o'clock now!" and he laughed and said I didn't have to wait until his child left to enjoy a drink, but of course I would never, ever drink while working!

How would you handle the hubby situation, I can't really tell him he isn't allowed a drink, but what if I get one parent who is dead against it?

shortstuff
22-07-2014, 11:53 AM
Personally I would respond that the mindee is your responsibility and as such they wouldnt be left alone with your oh anyway.

Hth x

AliceK
22-07-2014, 12:03 PM
It's a tough one because on the one hand I can see you DH's point of view in that it is his home and if he wants a beer after getting in from work he should be able to but then on the other hand I wouldn't be happy for my mindees to be seeing anyone in my home drinking and as a parent I would not have been too happy if my children had seen their childminders husband drinking. If your DH wanted to light up a cigarette in the garden in view of a mindee would you allow that? To me it's the same sort of thing.
Can you perhaps keep the mindee out of the garden whilst your OH goes and has his beer so they can't see??

xxx

Koala
22-07-2014, 12:08 PM
I think your hubby is quite right - I doubt he is tempting the child in your care to parteake :D or downing the strong stuff in fact he is probably staying as far away from them as he can :D and he probably deserves a beer at the end of the week.

And as shortstuff says - spot on. :thumbsup:

The only one imo who can complain is you, fancy taunting you by sitting in the sunshine with a cold beer whilst you work away :D

I don't think your other half having a beer on a Friday evening - once a week - can be compared with having a cigarette - I definitely wouldn't allow a cigarette to be smoked on my premises as it is purely socially unacceptable and harmful to everyone however I find what your husband is doing is socially acceptable and not harmful. :thumbsup:

Chatterbox Childcare
22-07-2014, 12:09 PM
I have had parents come and have a beer in the garden - can't see why your hubby can't. He isn't responsible for any child after all.

FussyElmo
22-07-2014, 12:51 PM
personally I wouldn't be letting my dh. Absolutely no chance would he be drinking without me :laughing::laughing:

littlebears1009
22-07-2014, 01:26 PM
My DH is the same he has a short shift on a Friday so does the school run on his way home and wants a beer at about 4. My DH does long 12 hour days sometimes 6 days a week so I wouldn't begrudge him a drink at the end of the week and his argument would also be it is my home! Don't push him, he might just turn around and say he's going to the pub for one instead then :-) as long as he isn't getting legless in front of the mindees I don't see it as a problem!

rickysmiths
22-07-2014, 01:35 PM
I can't see the problem at all as long as he isn't going to be in charge of the children one beer late on a Friday isn't going to hurt.

Maza
22-07-2014, 01:46 PM
When I was teaching we used to have a buffet lunch on the last day and the Head would provide wine. Looking back I think that was a bit naughty but as others have said, your hubby isn't in charge of your mindees. I think the parents are lucky to have someone to look after their child until 7 on a Friday evening. I wouldn't begrudge my hubby for doing it. My only thought is that if he is doing it in the garden, do you have a good relationship with your neighbours? They might not realise that it is just your hubby who is drinking, or that it is just one...

Rick
22-07-2014, 01:58 PM
He doesn't have to draw attention to it. Can he pour it into a glass? It would just be like any other drink. He's not in charge of mindees so I can't see a problem if he sits in the garden with a drink.

clareelizabeth1
22-07-2014, 02:30 PM
Just one beer on a Friday evening. You could put it down as your DH teaching the child about healthy drinking habits. Every day we hear about how much this young girl drunk before jumping off a bridge how drunk this young lad was when he drove off a motorway. We see the bad side of drinking and children see the wrong way to have a drink. Then we find our selfs trying to stop children seeing responsible drinking. I think you should let all children see responsible drinking before binge drinking becomes all they see.

ziggy
22-07-2014, 02:50 PM
this is interesting

i love a glass of wine in the evening (after mindees have gone). I'm in Ireland and was told at inspection all alcohol has to be locked away during minding hours. So i presume we cant allow family members/visitors to drink while i have mindees here.

I can see his point of view but it is also a work place till mindees go home. There are lots of things we cant do during working hours

EmmaReed84
22-07-2014, 03:24 PM
Thank you ladies. I don't begrudge him having a drink at all, although I am slightly jealous lol! The reason I asked about it was because when I did training I was told no alcohol at all around minded children.

I couldn't have even used the excuse about being at work, DH works in central London and at his company it's any excuse for a beer LOL!!

line6
22-07-2014, 04:05 PM
I find this interesting too. I think I'd be tempted to say put it in a glass and don't make an issue out of it.

Glitter
22-07-2014, 05:50 PM
I had a similar situation. To stop my husband drinking out of the can so the children would not be aware he was drinking alcohol I bought him a special beer mug. It is kept in the freezer and keeps the beer really cold while it is drunk. my husband loves it and uses it all the time, and the mindees (and parents) don't know what he is drinking!

ja-lula-belli
22-07-2014, 06:06 PM
I'm sorry I haven't read all the comments but I was just thinking is he drinking from a bottle or can? Maybe he could pour it into a glass or ikea cups ( pint ones that are made of China so couldn't see contents) might be a silly suggestion but just a thought. That way he can still enjoy his end of week beer without you being weary of mindee knowing the alcohol situation. X

sing-low
23-07-2014, 01:59 PM
I had a similar situation. To stop my husband drinking out of the can so the children would not be aware he was drinking alcohol I bought him a special beer mug. It is kept in the freezer and keeps the beer really cold while it is drunk. my husband loves it and uses it all the time, and the mindees (and parents) don't know what he is drinking! I was going to suggest this too! Win-win. Your DH gets to drink his beer and it stays cool and LOs don't know what he's drinking.
How are things, Emma? I've been thinking about you and wondering how you and your family are getting on?

Mouse
23-07-2014, 02:11 PM
To be honest, I'd be more concerned about your husband's attitude than the fact he has a drink at the end of the week!

It's a shame he isn't a bit more considerate of the fact you are working from home. Maybe he should be a bit more respectful and the two of you could come up with something that works for you both. I wouldn't be happy if my husband drank beer out of the can when mindees were here, but wouldn't bother so much if he had it out of a glass. But if he came out with the attitude "it's my home and I'll do what I want"..........................


....well, he just wouldn't. He knows better than that ;)

Mouse
23-07-2014, 02:13 PM
Thank you ladies. I don't begrudge him having a drink at all, although I am slightly jealous lol! The reason I asked about it was because when I did training I was told no alcohol at all around minded children.

I couldn't have even used the excuse about being at work, DH works in central London and at his company it's any excuse for a beer LOL!!

I was always told that about no alcohol even being on show around minded children. Ours lives on top of a cupboard in the kitchen. I can't reach it, so mindees have got no hope. And none of them have ever even seemed to even notice it there. I do move it out when I've got an inspection due though!

FloraDora
23-07-2014, 03:27 PM
When I had my pre reg I asked about my built in wine rack that is up beyond reach of LO - no problem was the reply. The LO will not be in the kitchen without me so not likely to climb up and sneak a quick one.
Interesting thoughts about whether children should see an adult drinking or even beer/ wine bottles on view- surely teaching responsible eating/ drinking by role modal is better than keeping it all hidden and taboo??

My own sons were allowed a small european style beer from 15 ...but just one..and the odd half glass of wine at special occasion home meals. .they have gone on to be responsible drinkers, never excessive but some of their friends talked about never being allowed a drink until they reached 18 then they went berserk.. Curiosity meant they drank until they collapsed.... In our current knowledge of what is healthy or not it is more difficult to make these decisions.....

But having said all this - despite it being in a rack ..I would never drink whilst childminding...and my DH would wait for me until after they have gone as the relaxing drink time is a bit of a both relaxing in the early eve sunshine together moment.

I do try not to open a bottle of wine mid week, an occasional small sherry maybe .......unless I am on my holiday...which I am !!!! So ......

AliceK
23-07-2014, 03:50 PM
But what if you had a mindee from a family where alcohol was seen as a problem or taboo either for personal/family reasons or cultural reasons? You may not even realise the families thoughts about alcohol as there is probably no need for it to have been discussed. It's not always just about religion.
If I am not sure if something is acceptable or not I always ask myself ...... If Ofsted were to knock on my door right now what would they say?

xxx

FloraDora
23-07-2014, 04:15 PM
But what if you had a mindee from a family where alcohol was seen as a problem or taboo either for personal/family reasons or cultural reasons? You may not even realise the families thoughts about alcohol as there is probably no need for it to have been discussed. It's not always just about religion.
If I am not sure if something is acceptable or not I always ask myself ...... If Ofsted were to knock on my door right now what would they say?

xxx

If I had a mindee from a family where alcohol was seen as a problem I would respect this and find another use for my wine rack.....A friend of mine keeps her t towels rolled up in hers as its huge, they look quite colourful.

jolliesdean
23-07-2014, 04:16 PM
When I was getting inspected I was asked what I would do if my 18 year old son came home in a joyful manner after having a few after work. Explained that he would not be with the children and would just inform parents. Discussed alcohol as we have wine/beer fridge and the inspector was fine with explanation that I would not drink with children and that if partner did it would only be the odd one as mentioned after work. As for culture and other reasons it's the real world and they will encounter it at some part in their lives. Discreation is key x

Ripeberry
24-07-2014, 07:12 AM
As long as your hubby is not at the door with a beer in hand with only his vest on, then it has nothing to do with the parent what he does in his own house. They should also understand that after a certain time, people will have a drink and as long as it's not you drinking I cannot see what their problem would be unless they were teetotalers. Lol!

Ripeberry
24-07-2014, 07:19 AM
At a mindee's home the parents have a glass cabinet (toddler height) full of wine and spirits. No lock on the door! Trying to hide things in plain sight I suppose. I think that will change once the kids become aware of what exactly is in the cabinet, in the living room... :panic:

bunyip
24-07-2014, 08:34 AM
I kinda agree with Mouse. I'd be more concerned that my OH was showing a lack of consideration for my job, my business, my choices. We hear a lot of "I'll do what I like in my own home", but a lot of that ceases to be the case when we choose, freely, to use our home as a place of work and a place of safety for other people's children.

That said, I don't see how the DH having a moderate level of alcoholic drink breaches any regulations. If he is not "the practitioner" then there is no bar (unfortunate choice of word :rolleyes:) on him drinking within EYFS.

I would be cautious however if there were any concerns from client families on the issue of alcohol; alcohol abuse within a family; or cultural sensitivities. You might also find Ofsted inspectors being individually difficult. This makes it tricky, cos I don't know whether it would be better to keep it low-key or go out of my way to show I'd consulted and OK-ed it all with client parents.

Really, there are 2 related problem at play here. One is the very British attitude to alcohol as a 'problem' when most other societies seem not to need to criminalise and make it problematic. The other problem is Ofsted's habit of making up new regulations by 'interpreting' or over-extending the EYFS regs.

I recall my Ofsted inspector commenting that she liked the way my beer/cider was stored out of sight, out of reach and locked away. It all seemed a bit OTT. It occurred to me at the time to ask what the blinking flip she thought she was talking about: it's not like my 2yo mindees at the time had sufficient dexterity to operate a bottle opener! :p

NinkyNonk
24-07-2014, 08:59 AM
Sorry to jump in, but just wanted to ask...my childminding co-ordinator said I'm not allowed to keep alcohol in the fridge (or anywhere on view) but the inspector didn't mention anything on my pre-reg visit (I completely forgot to ask). Does anyone know about this?

littlebears1009
24-07-2014, 02:28 PM
Sorry to jump in, but just wanted to ask...my childminding co-ordinator said I'm not allowed to keep alcohol in the fridge (or anywhere on view) but the inspector didn't mention anything on my pre-reg visit (I completely forgot to ask). Does anyone know about this?

I would be keeping whatever I like in my fridge I'm afraid! It has a lock on it and Los are told not to go in the fridge if they want something they Are to ask. And also it isn't in view unless your fridge has a glass door which I'm sure it isn't! I have a glass fronted cupboard (top one) and I have any spirits and wine in there and the Ofsted inspector didn't say a thing. I'm sure parents don't lock up their alcohol at home and after all we are providing a home from home environment! As long as you feel comfortable that your mindees can't access it then it should be fine!

loocyloo
24-07-2014, 04:21 PM
One LO when role playing usually says " loocyloo. Do you want a cup of tea or a glass of wine? " ...! And no, I don't drink when minding but have been over to parents and had a drink or had parents here and offered a drink! (Out of working hours!)

bunyip
24-07-2014, 05:05 PM
We did wine-making as a practical science project at school. :D

It's quite labour-intensive, so maybe a few of the lo's crushing the fruit might not be a bad idea. OTOH they do tend to be a bit grubby, and I think I'd worry they'd introduce too many bacteria and kill off the saccharomyces before the fermentation got going. :p

blue bear
24-07-2014, 06:07 PM
I don't do this but what abput taking a mindee for lunch in a hotel or child friendly pub such as wether spoons or harvester?
People will be drinking there. Would you not let anyone at your table drink?
What if you worked seven days a week, evenings and weekends would you not participate in family gatherings and celebrations?

smurfette
24-07-2014, 07:07 PM
I think the thing here is that it is outside Normal working hours .. Would it be different if dh was drinking at lunchtime or in afternoon ? Just a thought .. This Lo is with you 7pm Friday when most people have clocked off.. It's not you drinking it's dh, it's only one and I wouldn't worry too much but I do understand .. My dh has terrible habit of leaving his Heineken cans about for me to clear up frantically next morning! He does a pressurised job and we do try keep it to weekends but will sometimes have a couple mid week. I tell him it creates wrong impression although logically it's obvious it's evening time when mindees gone home and it's none of parents business! I think we feel judged though in our own homes and second guess everything we do so maybe we get paranoid!

Maza
24-07-2014, 08:50 PM
It's a tough one, because although I know the mindees would come to absolutely no harm if hubby had a beer after work (and I'm sure he has done) I would be mortified if the parents turned up early and saw him drinking, even though I know they all like a drink themselves.

FloraDora
26-07-2014, 03:21 PM
Just found this document when looking for something:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/registration-forms-and-guides/r/Requirements%20for%20the%20Childcare%20Register%20 childminders%20and%20home%20childcarers.doc

This is the quote on page 1:
'Childminders must ensure that no person smokes, or consumes or is under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on the individual’s ability to provide childcare) or alcohol:
 on the premises at any time while childcare is provided, or
 in the presence of a child receiving childcare.
Both parts
CR1.9
Home childcarers must not smoke, or consume or be under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on their ability to provide childcare) or alcohol while providing childcare. '

So after all our discussions its written in black and white - he can't.
Good luck with your discussions!

Maza
26-07-2014, 03:47 PM
Just found this document when looking for something:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/registration-forms-and-guides/r/Requirements%20for%20the%20Childcare%20Register%20 childminders%20and%20home%20childcarers.doc

This is the quote on page 1:
'Childminders must ensure that no person smokes, or consumes or is under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on the individual’s ability to provide childcare) or alcohol:
 on the premises at any time while childcare is provided, or
 in the presence of a child receiving childcare.
Both parts
CR1.9
Home childcarers must not smoke, or consume or be under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on their ability to provide childcare) or alcohol while providing childcare. '

So after all our discussions its written in black and white - he can't.
Good luck with your discussions!

Wow. This puts a dampner on things. Thanks for finding this. It's amazing none of us knew about it really.

ziggy
26-07-2014, 04:24 PM
oh dear, not an easy one

hummingbird2014
27-07-2014, 07:24 AM
Ok I wouldn't allow DH to drink alcohol while mindees are here. No way. But if he's adimit he's having one compromise go out of view For example next door!

Simona
27-07-2014, 08:53 AM
Just found this document when looking for something:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/registration-forms-and-guides/r/Requirements%20for%20the%20Childcare%20Register%20 childminders%20and%20home%20childcarers.doc

This is the quote on page 1:
'Childminders must ensure that no person smokes, or consumes or is under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on the individual’s ability to provide childcare) or alcohol:
 on the premises at any time while childcare is provided, or
 in the presence of a child receiving childcare.
Both parts
CR1.9
Home childcarers must not smoke, or consume or be under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on their ability to provide childcare) or alcohol while providing childcare. '

So after all our discussions its written in black and white - he can't.
Good luck with your discussions!

Thank you Flora Dora for pointing to this document...which is current and amongst the many Ofsted have published for our benefit

Rather strange though...that while Ofsted explains very clearly about alcohol in their publication...and I have to admit that is how I interpreted it for years both in terms of where to store alcohol and when it can ...or cannot be consumed in a setting...there is no mention of alcohol in EYFS 12 or 14...

chriss
27-07-2014, 11:20 AM
Childminding does take over the home, so the OHs and children, even friends who would otherwise pop in but don't, have to put up with a lot. Like someone else said, just pour it into a coloured glass, then no one can even see what he is drinking.
After a full day working, would we want to walk into our living room and into the OHs workplace or just chill for a bit :)

primula
28-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Just my opinion but I think it would be better for you ,to safeguard you from a potential complaint that he either waits till 7pm, goes to the pub, you go out and come back at 6.45, change working hours, separate husband with can and he takes over garden for the last couple of hours? My OH loves a beer or two in the garden, especially in this weather! fortunately for me mindee goes at 5.45 and he gets in about 6.15!! But I have on occasion shut OH in the front room if he is home early so he can watch telly, so maybe you could do something similar?

bunyip
29-07-2014, 05:25 PM
Just found this document when looking for something:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/registration-forms-and-guides/r/Requirements%20for%20the%20Childcare%20Register%20 childminders%20and%20home%20childcarers.doc

This is the quote on page 1:
'Childminders must ensure that no person smokes, or consumes or is under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on the individual’s ability to provide childcare) or alcohol:
 on the premises at any time while childcare is provided, or
 in the presence of a child receiving childcare.
Both parts
CR1.9
Home childcarers must not smoke, or consume or be under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on their ability to provide childcare) or alcohol while providing childcare. '

So after all our discussions its written in black and white - he can't.
Good luck with your discussions!

Thanks for this Flora Dora. I thought I'd seen that before somewhere, but had lost trace of the document (possibly assuming - or hoping - Ofsted had dropped it.)

It looks like another case of "thank you very much Ofsted". Not content with applying the regulations, they write new, additional regulations under the cover of "interpretation". Why on Earth are they allowed to get away with this?

Let's think this through for a mo. "Childminders must ensure that no person smokes, or consumes or is under the influence of drugs (including medication that may have an adverse effect on the individual’s ability to provide childcare) or alcohol ................. in the presence of a child receiving childcare."

One has to assume this does not merely mean "whilst minding a child". That would be so obvious as to not need spelling out: it's already clear in the regs. So surely this little gem has to mean we cannot smoke, drink, etc. when a minded child is present even if we are not working at the time. So, if we were to hold another summer garden party for all our client families, as we have in the past, we would not be allowed a drink. If I'm in a pub or restaurant, enjoying a glass of cider/wine/beer and a mindee and family walk in, I have to leave the meal unfinished, settle the bill and leave ..... or be in breach of Ofsted's "interpretation" of the regs. :( What if I'm in the doctor's waiting room, seeing them about some medication and they walk in? According to this "interpretation" I have to leave. :mad: And when client parents invite you to their wedding? "yes, I'd be delighted to come along, but we cannot join in the toasts, or I'll lose my registration....?" :eek:

Insane. :angry:

This is not at all practical when you have 3 clients living in the same block, including friends of the family. :p

jackie 7
29-07-2014, 08:08 PM
Oh does that mean we have to make sure the parents don't drink.

Koala
30-07-2014, 05:50 AM
[QUOTE=jackie 7;1372198]Oh does that mean we have to make sure the parents don't drink.[/QUOTE

I don't think so- to my understanding there are no regulations,government documents for parents (there certainly wasn't when I had my children - just get on with it), just for trained, registered professionals! :panic: :panic: :panic:

bunyip
30-07-2014, 08:33 AM
Koala: If Gove stayed in his post, I think that sort of thing would've only been a matter of time. :mad:

Koala
30-07-2014, 09:52 AM
Bunyip: I'm sorry to say "some people need it!" :D

JCrakers
30-07-2014, 09:54 AM
Interesting conversations and questions. I've never really thought about it as I finish work at 6pm and although I'd love to get the gin out mid afternoon I have to restrain myself...lol
It is a good question and the answer is probably no he shouldn't while you still have mindees as ofsted wouldn't like it at all.
I can visualise the inspector doing a visit while hubbie is sat on a deckchair supping a beer....lol


But what really gets to me is the way we have to protect the children and shield them from everything.....I understand about the smoking and obviously no ones going to lay out drugs on the table but a cold beer after work to me is just a way to relax after a hard day. No ones getting drunk and everything is good in moderation.
To have alcohol out of reach is common sense but to have it out of sight is just plain stupid. And to not have it in your fridge is even more crazy. Alcohol should be part of life and children should know that anything in moderation is ok. We, as adults cook with alcohol and can enjoy a drink of wine with a meal without getting smashed.

tess1981
30-07-2014, 02:14 PM
Interesting conversations and questions. I've never really thought about it as I finish work at 6pm and although I'd love to get the gin out mid afternoon I have to restrain myself...lol
It is a good question and the answer is probably no he shouldn't while you still have mindees as ofsted wouldn't like it at all.
I can visualise the inspector doing a visit while hubbie is sat on a deckchair supping a beer....lol

But what really gets to me is the way we have to protect the children and shield them from everything.....I understand about the smoking and obviously no ones going to lay out drugs on the table but a cold beer after work to me is just a way to relax after a hard day. No ones getting drunk and everything is good in moderation.
To have alcohol out of reach is common sense but to have it out of sight is just plain stupid. And to not have it in your fridge is even more crazy. Alcohol should be part of life and children should know that anything in moderation is ok. We, as adults cook with alcohol and can enjoy a drink of wine with a meal without getting smashed.

I could not agree more!!!!!

bunyip
31-07-2014, 09:37 AM
I agree. Why does this country have such a hang-up about alcohol? Wouldn't it be so much better if children had a sensible introduction to alcohol as they seem to do all over Europe (some might argue for other drugs too) instead of total demonisation which only seems to create the very problems it claims to solve?

I had alcoholic grandparents, so I've seen my fair share of what can go wrong. But I've also known people's lives ruined by plenty of other things: road accidents, business failures, banking collapses - and no-one is trying to demonise all drivers or anyone with a business or a cheque book.

I can't believe how eager the authorities and self-appointed moral standard-bearers are to link alcohol to every single little problem with society. I'll give an example. A friend of mine was hit by a car whilst crossing the road at a pelican crossing. He had been in the pub, but was perfectly sober. The driver had not been drinking, and the accident was attributed to the driver using her mobile phone at the time. My friend was ok and recovered. Some time later, he was contacted by one of those damages law firms. They told him they had the police report of the accident and said he'd be entitled to a higher level of compensation because the accident had been logged as "alcohol related". He queried this because he knew the driver had not been drinking. The law firm said, yes, they knew the driver had passed a breathalyzer test, but the police classified it as "alcohol-related" because my friend had just been on licensed premises, even though he was also sober and the report said his actions had in no way contributed to the accident! In other words, all accidents, crimes, etc. are defined as "alcohol-related" whenever there is the opportunity to make the most tenuous link with drink, even if there is absolutely no way the alcohol could've had any bearing on the incident! :eek: Worth remembering next time you see/hear the term "alcohol related" casually dropped into a news report or government statistic. :p